I doubt it'd get tested enough to notice, if it's not in the default\\n> build.\\n> \\n> I actually think that both of these are pretty good candidates to put\\n> into 7.3.3. I'm just trying to adopt an appropriately paranoid stance\\n> and ask hard questions about how much they've been tested. Between\\n> Kevin and Sean it seems that the deferred-triggers change has gotten\\n> enough testing to warrant some trust, but I'm not hearing anything\\n> about the FK-deadlock one :-(.\\n> \\n> BTW, if anyone is looking for that patch, it was at\\n> http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-hackers/2003-04/msg00260.php\\n\\n7.3.2: I applied the above patch and did install and restarted postgresql,\\nbut the 'deadlock detected' error on FK update still exist. The below is\\nthe test case. Someone *advice* me, if it the above mentioned patch is not\\nintended to address the below case.\\n\\nTest case:\\n\\ntest_pg=# CREATE TABLE prim_test (id int primary key);\\nNOTICE: CREATE TABLE / PRIMARY KEY will create implicit index \\n'prim_test_pkey'\\nfor table 'prim_test'\\nCREATE TABLE\\ntest_pg=# CREATE TABLE for_test (id int references prim_test(id), name \\ntext);\\nNOTICE: CREATE TABLE will create implicit trigger(s) for FOREIGN KEY \\ncheck(s)\\nCREATE TABLE\\ntest_pg=# INSERT INTO prim_test VALUES ('1');\\nINSERT 4383707 1\\ntest_pg=# INSERT INTO prim_test VALUES ('2');\\nINSERT 4383708 1\\ntest_pg=# INSERT INTO for_test VALUES (1, 'foo');\\nINSERT 4383710 1\\ntest_pg=# INSERT INTO for_test VALUES (2, 'bar');\\nINSERT 4383711 1\\n\\nt1:\\ntest_pg=# BEGIN ;\\nBEGIN\\ntest_pg=# UPDATE for_test set name ='FOO' where id = 1;\\nUPDATE 1\\ntest_pg=# UPDATE for_test set name ='Bar' where id = 2;\\nUPDATE 1\\n\\nt2:\\ntest_pg=# BEGIN ;\\nBEGIN\\ntest_pg=# UPDATE for_test set name = 'BAR' where id = 2;\\nUPDATE 1\\ntest_pg=# UPDATE for_test set name = 'Foo' where id = 1;\\nERROR: deadlock detected\\n\\nregards,\\nbhuvaneswaran\\n\\n\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 19 May 2003 12:48:24 +0530 (IST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"\\\"A.Bhuvaneswaran\\\" <bhuvanbk@yahoo.com>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: Heads up: 7.3.3 this Wednesday \"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\\"A.Bhuvaneswaran\\\" <bhuvanbk@yahoo.com> writes:\\n> 7.3.2: I applied the above patch and did install and restarted postgresql,\\n> but the 'deadlock detected' error on FK update still exist. The below is\\n> the test case. Someone *advice* me, if it the above mentioned patch is not\\n> intended to address the below case.\\n\\nThat is not a foreign-key deadlock; it's a plain old deadlock. It would\\nhappen exactly the same way without the foreign key, because the\\ncontention is directly for the rows being updated.\\n\\nAn example of what the patch fixes:\\n\\nregression=# CREATE TABLE prim_test (id int primary key);\\nNOTICE: CREATE TABLE / PRIMARY KEY will create implicit index 'prim_test_pkey' for table 'prim_test'\\nCREATE TABLE\\nregression=# CREATE TABLE for_test (id int, name text,\\nregression(# ref int references prim_test(id));\\nNOTICE: CREATE TABLE will create implicit trigger(s) for FOREIGN KEY check(s)\\nCREATE TABLE\\nregression=# INSERT INTO prim_test VALUES ('1');\\nINSERT 566517 1\\nregression=# INSERT INTO prim_test VALUES ('2');\\nINSERT 566518 1\\nregression=# INSERT INTO for_test VALUES (11, 'foo', 1);\\nINSERT 566520 1\\nregression=# INSERT INTO for_test VALUES (12, 'fooey', 1);\\nINSERT 566521 1\\nregression=# INSERT INTO for_test VALUES (21, 'fooey', 2);\\nINSERT 566522 1\\nregression=# INSERT INTO for_test VALUES (22, 'fooey', 2);\\nINSERT 566523 1\\nregression=# begin;\\nBEGIN\\nregression=# UPDATE for_test set name ='FOO' where id = 11;\\nUPDATE 1\\n\\n-- in client 2 do\\n\\nregression=# begin;\\nBEGIN\\nregression=# UPDATE for_test set name = 'BAR' where id = 22;\\nUPDATE 1\\nregression=# UPDATE for_test set name = 'BAR' where id = 12;\\nUPDATE 1\\n\\n-- back to client 1, do\\n\\nregression=# UPDATE for_test set name ='FOO' where id = 21;\\nUPDATE 1\\n\\nThis deadlocks in 7.3, but works in CVS tip.\\n\\n\\t\\t\\tregards, tom lane\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 19 May 2003 10:24:05 -0400\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: Heads up: 7.3.3 this Wednesday \"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> regression=# UPDATE for_test set name ='FOO' where id = 21;\\n> UPDATE 1\\n>\\n> This deadlocks in 7.3, but works in CVS tip.\\n\\nHmmm...I suspect this will remove a lot of the FK deadlocks I see in my logs\\nall the time...does seem like a bug doesn't it?\\n\\nChris\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 20 May 2003 10:42:58 +0800\",\n \"msg_from\": \"\\\"Christopher Kings-Lynne\\\" <chriskl@familyhealth.com.au>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: Heads up: 7.3.3 this Wednesday \"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\\"Christopher Kings-Lynne\\\" <chriskl@familyhealth.com.au> writes:\\n>> This deadlocks in 7.3, but works in CVS tip.\\n\\n> Hmmm...I suspect this will remove a lot of the FK deadlocks I see in my logs\\n> all the time...does seem like a bug doesn't it?\\n\\nYeah. I'm just worried that there might be some downside we've not\\nspotted yet. I'd feel better about it if *anyone* had reported\\nsuccessful production use of the patch in the month since it's been\\navailable. I thought one or two people had expressed the intention\\nto run the patch when Jan offered it ... where are they?\\n\\n\\t\\t\\tregards, tom lane\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 19 May 2003 23:38:45 -0400\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: Heads up: 7.3.3 this Wednesday \"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Tom Lane wrote:\\n> Yeah. I'm just worried that there might be some downside we've not\\n> spotted yet. I'd feel better about it if *anyone* had reported\\n> successful production use of the patch in the month since it's been\\n> available. I thought one or two people had expressed the intention\\n> to run the patch when Jan offered it ... where are they?\\n\\nI put it in on some DBs we were doing testing against at Liberty; the\\nresults unfortunately were inconclusive. \\n\\nWe didn't see any noticeable improvement in performance out of it,\\nalbeit with limited use, because we weren't planning to use 7.3 in\\nproduction just yet, and so did the vast majority of the testing against\\n7.2.4, where the patch doesn't even come close to applying...\\n\\nThe result is that I can't suggest either a \\\"yea\\\" or \\\"nay\\\"...\\n--\\n(reverse (concatenate 'string \\\"gro.gultn@\\\" \\\"enworbbc\\\"))\\nhttp://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/spiritual.html\\nIf con is the opposite of pro, is Congress the opposite of progress?\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 20 May 2003 07:16:21 -0400\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Christopher Browne <cbbrowne@cbbrowne.com>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: Heads up: 7.3.3 this Wednesday \"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"On Mon, 19 May 2003, Tom Lane wrote:\\n\\n> \\\"Christopher Kings-Lynne\\\" <chriskl@familyhealth.com.au> writes:\\n> >> This deadlocks in 7.3, but works in CVS tip.\\n> \\n> > Hmmm...I suspect this will remove a lot of the FK deadlocks I see in my logs\\n> > all the time...does seem like a bug doesn't it?\\n> \\n> Yeah. I'm just worried that there might be some downside we've not\\n> spotted yet. I'd feel better about it if *anyone* had reported\\n> successful production use of the patch in the month since it's been\\n> available. I thought one or two people had expressed the intention\\n> to run the patch when Jan offered it ... where are they?\\n\\nI'd be glad to test it, but we don't have any issues with fk deadlocks \\nsince our load is 99% read, 1% write, and most of the tables with fks on \\nthem only have a handful of writers, so any testing I would do would \\nprobably just be the \\\"we used it in production and it didn't die\\\" kind of \\ntesting.\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 20 May 2003 09:31:50 -0600 (MDT)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"\\\"scott.marlowe\\\" <scott.marlowe@ihs.com>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: Heads up: 7.3.3 this Wednesday \"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\\"scott.marlowe\\\" <scott.marlowe@ihs.com> writes:\\n> I'd be glad to test it, but we don't have any issues with fk deadlocks \\n> since our load is 99% read, 1% write, and most of the tables with fks on \\n> them only have a handful of writers, so any testing I would do would \\n> probably just be the \\\"we used it in production and it didn't die\\\" kind of \\n> testing.\\n\\nThat's what I'm looking for mostly: that it does not have any adverse\\nside-effects.\\n\\n\\t\\t\\tregards, tom lane\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 20 May 2003 11:54:11 -0400\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: Heads up: 7.3.3 this Wednesday \"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"On Tue, 20 May 2003, Tom Lane wrote:\\n\\n> \\\"scott.marlowe\\\" <scott.marlowe@ihs.com> writes:\\n> > I'd be glad to test it, but we don't have any issues with fk deadlocks \\n> > since our load is 99% read, 1% write, and most of the tables with fks on \\n> > them only have a handful of writers, so any testing I would do would \\n> > probably just be the \\\"we used it in production and it didn't die\\\" kind of \\n> > testing.\\n> \\n> That's what I'm looking for mostly: that it does not have any adverse\\n> side-effects.\\n\\nSo where's that patch again? The search function of the mail archives is \\nbroken, so I can't seem to find it.\\n\\n\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 20 May 2003 10:08:07 -0600 (MDT)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"\\\"scott.marlowe\\\" <scott.marlowe@ihs.com>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: Heads up: 7.3.3 this Wednesday \"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"I wrote:\\n> pgsql-core have agreed to put out a 7.3.3 release on Wednesday (5/21),\\n> God willin' an' the creek don't rise.\\n\\nWell, the postgresql.org server move has proven to be much messier than\\nwe hoped, so it seems prudent to delay a couple days while the kinks\\nget worked out. New plan is 7.3.3 release on Friday (5/23).\\n\\n\\t\\t\\tregards, tom lane\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 20 May 2003 13:04:43 -0400\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Heads up: 7.3.3 this, er, Friday\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"On Tue, 20 May 2003, scott.marlowe wrote:\\n\\n> On Tue, 20 May 2003, Tom Lane wrote:\\n>\\n> > \\\"scott.marlowe\\\" <scott.marlowe@ihs.com> writes:\\n> > > I'd be glad to test it, but we don't have any issues with fk deadlocks\\n> > > since our load is 99% read, 1% write, and most of the tables with fks on\\n> > > them only have a handful of writers, so any testing I would do would\\n> > > probably just be the \\\"we used it in production and it didn't die\\\" kind of\\n> > > testing.\\n> >\\n> > That's what I'm looking for mostly: that it does not have any adverse\\n> > side-effects.\\n>\\n> So where's that patch again? The search function of the mail archives is\\n> broken, so I can't seem to find it.\\n>\\n\\ndid you try http://fts.postgresql.org/ ? It should works\\n\\n\\n>\\n>\\n>\\n> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------\\n> TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command\\n> (send \\\"unregister YourEmailAddressHere\\\" to majordomo@postgresql.org)\\n>\\n\\n\\tRegards,\\n\\t\\tOleg\\n_____________________________________________________________\\nOleg Bartunov, sci.researcher, hostmaster of AstroNet,\\nSternberg Astronomical Institute, Moscow University (Russia)\\nInternet: oleg@sai.msu.su, http://www.sai.msu.su/~megera/\\nphone: +007(095)939-16-83, +007(095)939-23-83\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 20 May 2003 21:36:00 +0400 (MSD)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Oleg Bartunov <oleg@sai.msu.su>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: Heads up: 7.3.3 this Wednesday \"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"scott.marlowe wrote:\\n> On Tue, 20 May 2003, Tom Lane wrote:\\n> \\n> \\n>>\\\"scott.marlowe\\\" <scott.marlowe@ihs.com> writes:\\n>>\\n>>>I'd be glad to test it, but we don't have any issues with fk deadlocks \\n>>>since our load is 99% read, 1% write, and most of the tables with fks on \\n>>>them only have a handful of writers, so any testing I would do would \\n>>>probably just be the \\\"we used it in production and it didn't die\\\" kind of \\n>>>testing.\\n>>\\n>>That's what I'm looking for mostly: that it does not have any adverse\\n>>side-effects.\\n> \\n> \\n> So where's that patch again? The search function of the mail archives is \\n> broken, so I can't seem to find it.\\n> \\n\\nAttached.\\n\\n\\nJan\\n\\n-- \\n#======================================================================#\\n# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #\\n# Let's break this rule - forgive me. #\\n#================================================== JanWieck@Yahoo.com #\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 20 May 2003 15:32:55 -0400\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Jan Wieck <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: Heads up: 7.3.3 this Wednesday\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Thanks! We should just replace the search screen (that doesn't work \\nanyway) on the archives with that one. That fts site rocks!\\n\\nI found it on the ftp server by the way, in the patches directory of all \\nplaces. I'll put it online on our backup server tonight.\\n\\nOn Tue, 20 May 2003, Oleg Bartunov wrote:\\n\\n> On Tue, 20 May 2003, scott.marlowe wrote:\\n> \\n> > On Tue, 20 May 2003, Tom Lane wrote:\\n> >\\n> > > \\\"scott.marlowe\\\" <scott.marlowe@ihs.com> writes:\\n> > > > I'd be glad to test it, but we don't have any issues with fk deadlocks\\n> > > > since our load is 99% read, 1% write, and most of the tables with fks on\\n> > > > them only have a handful of writers, so any testing I would do would\\n> > > > probably just be the \\\"we used it in production and it didn't die\\\" kind of\\n> > > > testing.\\n> > >\\n> > > That's what I'm looking for mostly: that it does not have any adverse\\n> > > side-effects.\\n> >\\n> > So where's that patch again? The search function of the mail archives is\\n> > broken, so I can't seem to find it.\\n> >\\n> \\n> did you try http://fts.postgresql.org/ ? It should works\\n> \\n> \\n> >\\n> >\\n> >\\n> > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------\\n> > TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command\\n> > (send \\\"unregister YourEmailAddressHere\\\" to majordomo@postgresql.org)\\n> >\\n> \\n> \\tRegards,\\n> \\t\\tOleg\\n> _____________________________________________________________\\n> Oleg Bartunov, sci.researcher, hostmaster of AstroNet,\\n> Sternberg Astronomical Institute, Moscow University (Russia)\\n> Internet: oleg@sai.msu.su, http://www.sai.msu.su/~megera/\\n> phone: +007(095)939-16-83, +007(095)939-23-83\\n> \\n> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------\\n> TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?\\n> \\n> http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs/FAQ.html\\n> \\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 20 May 2003 14:43:56 -0600 (MDT)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"\\\"scott.marlowe\\\" <scott.marlowe@ihs.com>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: Heads up: 7.3.3 this Wednesday \"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Andrew Sullivan <andrew@libertyrms.info> writes:\\n> Yes, 3 weeks of testing with the patch that Jan provided for 7.2. We\\n> had no failures that I know of. It provided no measurable\\n> performance gain, but it also never deadlocked, and we tested under\\n> conditions where it sometimes did in the past.\\n\\n> Note, however, that we were testing it indirectly; that is, while we\\n> were testing to see if it would break, our application (which does a\\n> number of the referential checks itself, multiple-connection-safety\\n> notwithstanding :( ) tends not to try to violate the foreign keys\\n> anyway. I wouldn't want to claim that we've tested it real heavily.\\n\\nNonetheless, this does seem to speak to my real concern, which is\\nwhether the patch introduces any unexpected side-effects. The code\\nwas getting executed, whether or not it detected any FK violations,\\nso we can have some hope that any bizarre problems would have been\\nnoticed.\\n\\nI'll go ahead and apply it for 7.3.3.\\n\\n\\t\\t\\tregards, tom lane\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Wed, 21 May 2003 13:40:02 -0400\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: Heads up: 7.3.3 this Wednesday \"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"On Wed, May 21, 2003 at 01:40:02PM -0400, Tom Lane wrote:\\n> was getting executed, whether or not it detected any FK violations,\\n> so we can have some hope that any bizarre problems would have been\\n> noticed.\\n\\nCertainly, bizarre problems would have been noticed. It's safe to\\napply, if you ask me.\\n\\nA\\n\\n-- \\n----\\nAndrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street\\nLiberty RMS Toronto, Ontario Canada\\n<andrew@libertyrms.info> M2P 2A8\\n +1 416 646 3304 x110\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Wed, 21 May 2003 16:52:04 -0400\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Andrew Sullivan <andrew@libertyrms.info>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: Heads up: 7.3.3 this Wednesday\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Tom Lane wrote:\\n> I actually think that both of these are pretty good candidates to put\\n> into 7.3.3. I'm just trying to adopt an appropriately paranoid stance\\n> and ask hard questions about how much they've been tested. Between\\n> Kevin and Sean it seems that the deferred-triggers change has gotten\\n> enough testing to warrant some trust, but I'm not hearing anything\\n> about the FK-deadlock one :-(.\\n> \\n> BTW, if anyone is looking for that patch, it was at\\n> http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-hackers/2003-04/msg00260.php\\n\\nI've been running with this patch ever since I upgraded to 7.3.2 some\\ntime back, without any ill effects at all, FWIW...\\n\\n\\n-- \\nKevin Brown\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t kevin@sysexperts.com\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Wed, 21 May 2003 21:56:59 -0700\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Kevin Brown <kevin@sysexperts.com>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: Heads up: 7.3.3 this Wednesday\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Kevin Brown <kevin@sysexperts.com> writes:\\n> I've been running with this patch ever since I upgraded to 7.3.2 some\\n> time back, without any ill effects at all, FWIW...\\n\\nAndrew Sullivan also reported doing a fair bit of testing without\\nnoticing any bad side-effects, so I've gone ahead and applied it for\\n7.3.3. Appreciate the confirmation though...\\n\\n\\t\\t\\tregards, tom lane\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Thu, 22 May 2003 01:15:04 -0400\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: Heads up: 7.3.3 this Wednesday \"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"I worked on project at GBorg to implement:\\n\\n> - a specified moment\\n> - a time of the day/month/year\\n> - recurring at a time interval\\n\\nBut now the project is frozen for some time, exist only UML.\\n\\nExpected features were:\\n\\n1. All transactions from job spool performed in one connection serially. \\n So on multy processors servers spooled jobs will eat only one CPU. \\nAnd job performed in expected order.\\n2. Guarantee launch job from spool in none guarantee time, even if \\nserver crashed when job transaction not ended.\\n\\nCron can't implement this.\\n\\n-- \\nOlleg\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Thu, 22 May 2003 15:57:12 +0400\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Olleg Samojlov <olleg@telecom.mipt.ru>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: Scheduled jobs\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Peter Eisentraut writes:\\n> I think not. It's a little tricky handling it directly in the child\\n> processes, but it's been done before.\\n\\nCertainly has...\\n\\nIn the cfengine2 code base, the relevant file is \\\"rotate.c\\\"; it\\nessentially attaches the file descriptor to a new file \\\"on the fly,\\\" and\\ndoes so as a separate process. The code apparently works on NT, too;\\nthere is a comment that indicates that they use chown() rather than\\nfchown() because the latter doesn't exist on NT.\\n\\nIn fact, that file is well worth taking a look at for strategies on\\nthis. It's GPLed code, and so may not be suitable for integration, but\\nthere are doubtless some useful techniques to be seen...\\n--\\nwm(X,Y):-write(X),write('@'),write(Y). wm('cbbrowne','cbbrowne.com').\\nhttp://cbbrowne.com/info/languages.html\\n\\\"Microsoft is sort of a mixture between the Borg and the\\nFerengi. Combine the Borg marketing with Ferengi networking...\\\"\\n-- Andre Beck in dcouln\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Fri, 23 May 2003 22:42:58 -0400\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Christopher Browne <cbbrowne@cbbrowne.com>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: more contrib: log rotator \"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\nI assume we are not moving in the XML/psql direction, right? We want it\\nint he backend, or the psql HTML converted to XHTML?\\n\\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------\\n\\ngreg@turnstep.com wrote:\\n[ There is text before PGP section. ]\\n> \\n[ PGP not available, raw data follows ]\\n> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----\\n> Hash: SHA1\\n> \\n> \\n> Patch to add XML output to psql:\\n> \\n> http://www.gtsm.com/xml.patch.txt\\n> \\n> Notes and questions:\\n> \\n> The basic output looks something like this:\\n> \\n> <?xml version=\\\"1.0\\\" encoding=\\\"SQL_ASCII\\\"?>\\n> <resultset psql_version=\\\"7.4devel\\\" query=\\\"select * from foo;\\\">\\n> \\n> <columns>\\n> <col num=\\\"1\\\">a</col>\\n> <col num=\\\"2\\\">b</col>\\n> <col num=\\\"3\\\">c</col>\\n> <col num=\\\"4\\\">mucho nacho </col>\\n> </columns>\\n> <row num=\\\"1\\\">\\n> <a>1</a>\\n> <b>pizza</b>\\n> <c>2003-02-25 15:19:22.169797</c>\\n> <\\\"mucho nacho \\\"></\\\"mucho nacho \\\">\\n> </row>\\n> <row num=\\\"2\\\">\\n> <a>2</a>\\n> <b>mushroom</b>\\n> <c>2003-02-25 15:19:26.969415</c>\\n> <\\\"mucho nacho \\\"></\\\"mucho nacho \\\">\\n> </row>\\n> <footer>(2 rows)</footer>\\n> </resultset>\\n> \\n> and with the \\\\x option:\\n> \\n> <?xml version=\\\"1.0\\\" encoding=\\\"SQL_ASCII\\\"?>\\n> <resultset psql_version=\\\"7.4devel\\\" query=\\\"select * from foo;\\\">\\n> \\n> <columns>\\n> <col num=\\\"1\\\">a</col>\\n> <col num=\\\"2\\\">b</col>\\n> <col num=\\\"3\\\">c</col>\\n> <col num=\\\"4\\\">mucho nacho </col>\\n> </columns>\\n> <row num=\\\"1\\\">\\n> <cell name=\\\"a\\\">1</cell>\\n> <cell name=\\\"b\\\">pizza</cell>\\n> <cell name=\\\"c\\\">2003-02-25 15:19:22.169797</cell>\\n> <cell name=\\\"mucho nacho \\\"></cell>\\n> </row>\\n> <row num=\\\"2\\\">\\n> <cell name=\\\"a\\\">2</cell>\\n> <cell name=\\\"b\\\">mushroom</cell>\\n> <cell name=\\\"c\\\">2003-02-25 15:19:26.969415</cell>\\n> <cell name=\\\"mucho nacho \\\"></cell>\\n> </row>\\n> </resultset>\\n> \\n> \\n> The default encoding \\\"SQL-ASCII\\\" is not valid for XML. \\n> Should it be automatically changed to something else?\\n> \\n> The flag \\\"-X\\\" is already taken, unfortunately, although \\\\X is not. \\n> I used \\\"-L\\\" and \\\"\\\\L\\\" but they are not as memorable as \\\"X\\\". Anyone \\n> see a way around this? Can we still use \\\\X inside of psql?\\n> \\n> \\n> It would be nice to include the string representation of the column \\n> types in the xml output:\\n> <col type=\\\"int8\\\">foo</col>\\n> ....but I could not find an easy way to do this: PQftype returns the \\n> OID only (which is close but not quite there). Is there an \\n> existing way to get the name of the type of a column from a \\n> PQresult item?\\n> \\n> The HTML, XML, and Latex modes should have better documentation - \\n> I'll submit a separate doc patch when/if this gets finalized.\\n> \\n> \\n> - --\\n> Greg Sabino Mullane greg@turnstep.com\\n> PGP Key: 0x14964AC8 200302261518\\n> \\n> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----\\n> Comment: http://www.turnstep.com/pgp.html\\n> \\n> iD8DBQE+XSR/vJuQZxSWSsgRAi2jAJ9IAKnMBmNcVEEI8TXQBBd/rtm4XQCg0Vjq\\n> IO9OsCSkdnNJqnrYYutM3jw=\\n> =9kwY\\n> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----\\n> \\n> \\n> \\n> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------\\n> TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives?\\n> \\n> http://archives.postgresql.org\\n> \\n[ Decrypting message... End of raw data. ]\\n\\n-- \\n Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us\\n pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001\\n + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road\\n + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sat, 24 May 2003 13:37:14 -0400 (EDT)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: XML ouput for psql\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\n-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----\\nHash: SHA1\\n\\n\\n> I assume we are not moving in the XML/psql direction, right? We want it\\n> int he backend, or the psql HTML converted to XHTML?\\n\\nI don't think a consensus was ever reached. It would certainly be better if \\nthis was done on the backend, but that seems to be a long time away, and \\nsome have argued that it is not the job of the engine to do this anyway.\\n\\nI agree at the very least we should update the HTML ourput for psql: I'll \\ntry to make a patch for that this weekend.\\n\\nI still think we should at least have a rudimentary xml output option inside \\nof psql. It won't be perfect, but we can certainly have the flag toggle \\na backend variable when/if the backend supports XML directly.\\n\\n\\n- --\\nGreg Sabino Mullane greg@turnstep.com\\nPGP Key: 0x14964AC8 200305301452\\n-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----\\nComment: http://www.turnstep.com/pgp.html\\n\\niD8DBQE+16npvJuQZxSWSsgRAnTHAJ0UN3HFWVybqDd/5lnsV2CcotRxSgCgp7md\\nW9Iho/Y1mwUYEl8SX/9oAVc=\\n=G1Jx\\n-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----\\n\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Fri, 30 May 2003 19:06:38 -0000\",\n \"msg_from\": \"greg@turnstep.com\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: XML ouput for psql\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> > I assume we are not moving in the XML/psql direction, right? We\\n> > want it int he backend, or the psql HTML converted to XHTML?\\n> \\n> I don't think a consensus was ever reached. It would certainly be\\n> better if this was done on the backend, but that seems to be a long\\n> time away, and some have argued that it is not the job of the engine\\n> to do this anyway.\\n\\nFew points for the archives regarding XML and databases (spent 9mo\\nworking on this kinda stuff during the .com days):\\n\\n*) Use libxml2. MIT Licensed, most complete opensource XML\\n implementation available, and fast. See the XML benchmarks on\\n sf.net for details. To avoid library naming conflicts, the library\\n should likely be renamed to pgxml.so and imported into the src\\n tree. Mention java in this context and risk being clubbed to death.\\n\\n*) There should be two storage formats for XML data:\\n\\n a) DOM-esque storage: broken down xmlNodes. This is necessary for\\n indexing specific places in documents (ala XPath queries).\\n Actual datums on the disk should be similar in structure to the\\n xmlNode struct found in libxml2 (would help with the\\n serialization in either direction). In database xslt\\n transformations are also possible with the data stored this way.\\n\\n b) SAX-esque storage: basically a single BYTEA/TEXT column. Not\\n all documents need to be indexed/searchable and SAX processing\\n of data is generally more efficient if you don't know what\\n you're looking for. This format is the low hanging fruit\\n though.\\n\\n-sc\\n\\n-- \\nSean Chittenden\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Fri, 30 May 2003 13:20:28 -0700\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Sean Chittenden <sean@chittenden.org>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: XML ouput for psql\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\nDone. Added to 1.15) How can I financially assist PostgreSQL?\\n\\n <P>Also, if you have a success story about PostgreSQL, please submit\\n it to our advocacy site at <a href=\\\"http://advocacy.postgresql.org\\\">\\n http://advocacy.postgresql.org</a>.\\n\\n\\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------\\n\\nShridhar Daithankar wrote:\\n> Hi,\\n> \\n> We should probably put out an FAQ saying, if you have success story, please \\n> make a write-up and send to us at http://advocacy.postgresql.org.\\n> \\n> Shridhar\\n> \\n> On Tuesday 15 April 2003 18:42, Ericson Smith wrote:\\n> > As one of the top search engine campaign optimization companies in the\\n> > space, we here at Did-it.com have been using Postgresql for over a year\\n> > now. We had serious locking problems with MySQL and even switching to\\n> > their Innodb handler did not solve all the issues.\\n> >\\n> > As the DB administrator, I recommended we switch when it came time to\\n> > re-write our client platform. That we did, and we have not looked back.\\n> > We have millions of listings, keywords and we perform live visitor\\n> > tracking in our database. We capture on the order of about 1 million\\n> > visitors every day, with each hit making updates, selects and possibly\\n> > inserts.\\n> >\\n> > We could not have done this in mySQL. Basically when I see silly posts\\n> > over on Slashdot about MySQL being as good a sliced bread, you can check\\n> > out the debunking posts that I make as \\\"esconsult1\\\".\\n> >\\n> > Yes, perhaps Postgresql needs a central org that manages press and so\\n> > on, but we know that we dont get the press that MySQL does, but quietly\\n> > in the background Postgresql is handling large important things.\\n> >\\n> > - Ericson Smith\\n> > Web Developer\\n> > Db Admin\\n> > http://www.did-it.com\\n> \\n> \\n> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------\\n> TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to majordomo@postgresql.org\\n> \\n\\n-- \\n Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us\\n pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001\\n + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road\\n + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Fri, 30 May 2003 22:26:10 -0400 (EDT)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [GENERAL] Are we losing momentum?\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\nWhere do we want to go with this? It is interesting that it maps MySQL\\nSHOW commands on top of our existing SHOW syntax in psql. The patch\\ndoesn't look too big.\\n\\nShould this be applied? Sean, I know you have a newer patch the the URL\\nyou posted isn't good anymore. This also contains GUC change. Sean,\\nwould you show each one you added and we can discuss if any are\\ninappropriate.\\n\\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------\\n\\nSean Chittenden wrote:\\n> > > That's a pretty reasonable thought. I work for a shop that sells\\n> > > Postgres support, and even we install MySQL for the Q&D ticket\\n> > > tracking system we recommend because we can't justify the cost to\\n> > > port it to postgres. If the postgres support were there, we would\\n> > > surely be using it.\\n> > \\n> > > How to fix such a situation, I'm not sure. \\\"MySQL Compatability\\n> > > Mode,\\\" anyone? :-)\\n> > \\n> > What issues are creating a compatibility problem for you?\\n> \\n> I don't think these should be hacked into the backend/libpq, but I\\n> think it'd be a huge win to hack in \\\"show *\\\" support into psql for\\n> MySQL users so they can type:\\n> \\n> SHOW (databases|tables|views|functions|triggers|schemas);\\n> \\n> I have yet to meet a MySQL user who understands the concept of system\\n> catalogs even though it's just the 'mysql' database (this irritates me\\n> enough as is)... gah, f- it: mysql users be damned, I have three\\n> developers that think that postgresql is too hard to use because they\\n> can't remember \\\"\\\\d [table name]\\\" and I'm tired of hearing them bitch\\n> when I push using PostgreSQL instead of MySQL. I have better things\\n> to do with my time than convert their output to PostgreSQL. Here goes\\n> nothing...\\n> \\n> I've tainted psql and added a MySQL command compatibility layer for\\n> the family of SHOW commands (psql [-m | --mysql]).\\n> \\n> \\n> The attached patch does a few things:\\n> \\n> 1) Implements quite a number of SHOW commands (AGGREGATES, CASTS,\\n> CATALOGS, COLUMNS, COMMENTS, CONSTRAINTS, CONVERSIONS, DATABASES,\\n> DOMAINS, FUNCTIONS, HELP, INDEX, LARGEOBJECTS, NAMES, OPERATORS,\\n> PRIVILEGES, PROCESSLIST, SCHEMAS, SEQUENCES, SESSION, STATUS,\\n> TABLES, TRANSACTION, TYPES, USERS, VARIABLES, VIEWS)\\n> \\n> SHOW thing\\n> SHOW thing LIKE pattern\\n> SHOW thing FROM pattern\\n> SHOW HELP ON (topic || ALL);\\n> etc.\\n> \\n> Some of these don't have \\\\ command eqiv's. :( I was tempted to add\\n> them, but opted not to for now, but it'd certainly be a nice to\\n> have.\\n> \\n> 2) Implements the necessary tab completion for the SHOW commands for\\n> the tab happy newbies/folks out there. psql is more friendly than\\n> mysql's CLI now in terms of tab completion for the show commands.\\n> \\n> 3) Few trailing whitespace characters were nuked\\n> \\n> 4) guc.c is now in sync with the list of available variables used for\\n> tab completion\\n> \\n> \\n> Few things to note:\\n> \\n> 1) SHOW INDEXES is the same as SHOW INDEX, I think MySQL is wrong in\\n> this regard and that it should be INDEXES to be plural along with\\n> the rest of the types, but INDEX is preserved for compatibility.\\n> \\n> 2) There are two bugs that I have yet to address\\n> \\n> 1) SHOW VARIABLES doesn't work, but \\\"SHOW [TAB][TAB]y\\\" does\\n> 2) \\\"SHOW [variable_of_choice];\\\" doesn't work, but \\\"SHOW\\n> [variable_of_choice]\\\\n;\\\" does work... not sure where this\\n> problem is coming from\\n> \\n> 3) I think psql is more usable as a result of this more verbose\\n> syntax, but it's not the prettiest thing on the planet (wrote a\\n> small parser outside of the backend or libraries: I don't want to\\n> get those dirty with MySQL's filth).\\n> \\n> 4) In an attempt to wean people over to PostgreSQL's syntax, I\\n> included translation tips on how to use the psql equiv of the SHOW\\n> commands. Going from SHOW foo to \\\\d foo is easy, going from \\\\d foo\\n> to SHOW foo is hard and drives me nuts. This'll help userbase\\n> retention of newbies/converts. :)\\n> \\n> 5) The MySQL mode is just a bounce layer that provides different\\n> syntax wrapping exec_command() so it should provide little in the\\n> way of maintenance headaches. Some of the SHOW commands, however,\\n> don't have \\\\ couterparts, but once they do and that code is\\n> centralized, this feature should come for zero cost.\\n> \\n> 6) As an administrator, I'd be interested in having an environment\\n> variable that I could set that'd turn on MySQL mode for some of my\\n> bozo users that way they don't complain if they forget the -m\\n> switch. Thoughts?\\n> \\n> \\n> I'll try and iron out the last of those two bugs/features, but at this\\n> point, would like to see this patch get wider testing/feedback.\\n> Comments, as always, are welcome.\\n> \\n> PostgreSQL_usability++\\n> \\n> -sc\\n> \\n> -- \\n> Sean Chittenden\\n\\n[ Attachment, skipping... ]\\n\\n> \\n> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------\\n> TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate\\n> subscribe-nomail command to majordomo@postgresql.org so that your\\n> message can get through to the mailing list cleanly\\n\\n-- \\n Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us\\n pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001\\n + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road\\n + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Fri, 30 May 2003 23:07:00 -0400 (EDT)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Are we losing momentum?\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Hi everyone,\\n\\nAs an additional point of interest, we're still processing all of the \\nCase Study submissions received from the last call around February, and \\nshould be beginning translations within the next week or two.\\n\\nThere is a lot of very good news contained in the submissions, and they \\nwill definitely assist in bringing into the open just how good a \\ndatabase system and Community we truly have.\\n\\nHope everyone will be as amazed as I was at just where PostgreSQL is \\nbeing used already. There are some very clued-in people out there.\\n\\nRegards and best wishes,\\n\\nJustin Clift\\n\\n\\nBruce Momjian wrote:\\n> Done. Added to 1.15) How can I financially assist PostgreSQL?\\n> \\n> <P>Also, if you have a success story about PostgreSQL, please submit\\n> it to our advocacy site at <a href=\\\"http://advocacy.postgresql.org\\\">\\n> http://advocacy.postgresql.org</a>.\\n> \\n> \\n> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\\n> \\n> Shridhar Daithankar wrote:\\n> \\n>>Hi,\\n>>\\n>>We should probably put out an FAQ saying, if you have success story, please \\n>>make a write-up and send to us at http://advocacy.postgresql.org.\\n>>\\n>> Shridhar\\n>>\\n>>On Tuesday 15 April 2003 18:42, Ericson Smith wrote:\\n>>\\n>>>As one of the top search engine campaign optimization companies in the\\n>>>space, we here at Did-it.com have been using Postgresql for over a year\\n>>>now. We had serious locking problems with MySQL and even switching to\\n>>>their Innodb handler did not solve all the issues.\\n>>>\\n>>>As the DB administrator, I recommended we switch when it came time to\\n>>>re-write our client platform. That we did, and we have not looked back.\\n>>>We have millions of listings, keywords and we perform live visitor\\n>>>tracking in our database. We capture on the order of about 1 million\\n>>>visitors every day, with each hit making updates, selects and possibly\\n>>>inserts.\\n>>>\\n>>>We could not have done this in mySQL. Basically when I see silly posts\\n>>>over on Slashdot about MySQL being as good a sliced bread, you can check\\n>>>out the debunking posts that I make as \\\"esconsult1\\\".\\n>>>\\n>>>Yes, perhaps Postgresql needs a central org that manages press and so\\n>>>on, but we know that we dont get the press that MySQL does, but quietly\\n>>>in the background Postgresql is handling large important things.\\n>>>\\n>>>- Ericson Smith\\n>>>Web Developer\\n>>>Db Admin\\n>>>http://www.did-it.com\\n>>\\n>>\\n>>---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------\\n>>TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to majordomo@postgresql.org\\n>>\\n> \\n> \\n\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sat, 31 May 2003 15:39:34 +0800\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Justin Clift <justin@postgresql.org>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [GENERAL] Are we losing momentum?\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Sean Chittenden kirjutas R, 30.05.2003 kell 23:20:\\n> > > I assume we are not moving in the XML/psql direction, right? We\\n> > > want it int he backend, or the psql HTML converted to XHTML?\\n> > \\n> > I don't think a consensus was ever reached. It would certainly be\\n> > better if this was done on the backend, but that seems to be a long\\n> > time away, and some have argued that it is not the job of the engine\\n> > to do this anyway.\\n> \\n> Few points for the archives regarding XML and databases (spent 9mo\\n> working on this kinda stuff during the .com days):\\n> \\n> *) Use libxml2. MIT Licensed, most complete opensource XML\\n> implementation available, and fast. See the XML benchmarks on\\n> sf.net for details. To avoid library naming conflicts, the library\\n> should likely be renamed to pgxml.so and imported into the src\\n> tree. Mention java in this context and risk being clubbed to death.\\n\\nAgree completely on all points ;)\\n\\n> *) There should be two storage formats for XML data:\\n> \\n> a) DOM-esque storage: broken down xmlNodes. This is necessary for\\n> indexing specific places in documents (ala XPath queries).\\n> Actual datums on the disk should be similar in structure to the\\n> xmlNode struct found in libxml2 (would help with the\\n> serialization in either direction). In database xslt\\n> transformations are also possible with the data stored this way.\\n> \\n> b) SAX-esque storage: basically a single BYTEA/TEXT column. Not\\n> all documents need to be indexed/searchable and SAX processing\\n> of data is generally more efficient if you don't know what\\n> you're looking for. This format is the low hanging fruit\\n> though.\\n\\nI think that Oleg and Todor very recently proposed somethink that could\\nuse b) and still provide indexed access. \\n\\nMost flexible would be some way to define, how much of a tree is kept\\ntogether, as xmlNode/tuple would probably be too much overhead for most\\noperations, whereas xmlFile/tuple would also, just for other ops;)\\n\\n--------------\\nHannu\\n\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"31 May 2003 13:35:43 +0300\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Hannu Krosing <hannu@tm.ee>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: XML ouput for psql\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Bruce Momjian writes:\\n\\n> Where do we want to go with this? It is interesting that it maps MySQL\\n> SHOW commands on top of our existing SHOW syntax in psql. The patch\\n> doesn't look too big.\\n\\nThe response to \\\"Are we losing momentum?\\\" isn't to add redundant syntax\\nfor nonstandard features that we have no control over.\\n\\n-- \\nPeter Eisentraut peter_e@gmx.net\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sat, 31 May 2003 17:55:16 +0200 (CEST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Are we losing momentum?\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net> writes:\\n> Bruce Momjian writes:\\n>> Where do we want to go with this? It is interesting that it maps MySQL\\n>> SHOW commands on top of our existing SHOW syntax in psql. The patch\\n>> doesn't look too big.\\n\\n> The response to \\\"Are we losing momentum?\\\" isn't to add redundant syntax\\n> for nonstandard features that we have no control over.\\n\\nI'm of two minds about it myself. I don't like trying to play follow-the-\\nleader with a moving target. But if you think of it as trying to win\\nover converts from MySQL, it seems a lot more palatable.\\n\\nIt would also be interesting to combine this with Rod's idea of driving\\ndescribe-type queries by table instead of hardwired code. Imagine that\\nthe backend's \\\"show foo\\\" command first looks for \\\"foo\\\" as a GUC\\nvariable, as it does now, but upon failing to find one it looks in a\\nsystem table for a query associated with the name \\\"foo\\\". If it finds\\nsuch a query, it runs it and sends back the result. Now, not only can\\nwe emulate \\\"show tables\\\", but people can easily add application-specific\\n\\\"show whatever\\\" commands, which seems tremendously cool.\\n\\nThere are some safety and protection issues to be solved here (probably\\nonly superusers should be allowed to modify the query table, and we\\nshould restrict the form of the query to be a single SELECT command)\\nbut I can't think of any showstoppers. Now that we've abandoned backend\\nautocommit there are no technical reasons that SHOW shouldn't be allowed\\nto run a SELECT query.\\n\\nI did not care for the original patch (which IIRC made psql recognize\\n\\\"show\\\" commands, rather than doing it in the backend) but something like\\nthe above seems reasonably clean.\\n\\n\\t\\t\\tregards, tom lane\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sat, 31 May 2003 12:49:00 -0400\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Are we losing momentum? \"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> >> Where do we want to go with this? It is interesting that it maps\\n> >> MySQL SHOW commands on top of our existing SHOW syntax in psql.\\n> >> The patch doesn't look too big.\\n> >\\n> > The response to \\\"Are we losing momentum?\\\" isn't to add redundant\\n> > syntax for nonstandard features that we have no control over.\\n> \\n> I'm of two minds about it myself. I don't like trying to play\\n> follow-the- leader with a moving target. But if you think of it as\\n> trying to win over converts from MySQL, it seems a lot more\\n> palatable.\\n\\nThe _only_ reason I added this was to aid in the conversion of MySQL\\nusers who don't know how to navigate their way through psql and\\nPostgreSQL. If you read through the patch, the extended SHOW commands\\nare only enabled if you turn them on via the --mysql option or by\\nsetting an option (don't recall at the moment) that way you can turn\\nthese on by default in a person's .psqlrc file. With Win32 coming\\ndown the pipe (right??? *cough cough* :-P), converting existing users\\nis going to be important for PostgreSQL's long term success if it\\nseeks to gain market share and momentum.\\n\\n> It would also be interesting to combine this with Rod's idea of\\n> driving describe-type queries by table instead of hardwired code.\\n> Imagine that the backend's \\\"show foo\\\" command first looks for \\\"foo\\\"\\n> as a GUC variable, as it does now, but upon failing to find one it\\n> looks in a system table for a query associated with the name \\\"foo\\\".\\n> If it finds such a query, it runs it and sends back the result.\\n> Now, not only can we emulate \\\"show tables\\\", but people can easily\\n> add application-specific \\\"show whatever\\\" commands, which seems\\n> tremendously cool.\\n\\nI really like the ability to program in queries or syntaxes into the\\nbackend, but as it stands, SHOW foo would have to be pretty smart to\\nhandle the LIKE clauses and other bits. And how would tab completion\\nbe handled in psql? I can't remember if I implemented stuff like,\\nSHOW TABLES IN SCHEMA foo, but 'SHOW TABLES LIKE a%' was quite a hit\\nto the people I have using the patch and I don't see how that'd be\\napplicable with what has been proposed so far. The extra verbosity\\nand tab completion-ability is important for the newbie, it's an\\ninteractive environment that lets them learn and explore in a\\nproactive manner. Having IN SCHEMA vs LIKE handled on the backend\\nwould be a rather complex generic model, but in an ideal world, one\\nthat I'd prefer if done right.\\n\\n> There are some safety and protection issues to be solved here\\n> (probably only superusers should be allowed to modify the query\\n> table, and we should restrict the form of the query to be a single\\n> SELECT command) but I can't think of any showstoppers. Now that\\n> we've abandoned backend autocommit there are no technical reasons\\n> that SHOW shouldn't be allowed to run a SELECT query.\\n> \\n> I did not care for the original patch (which IIRC made psql\\n> recognize \\\"show\\\" commands, rather than doing it in the backend) but\\n> something like the above seems reasonably clean.\\n\\nWell, unless something is done very cleanly and abstractly, and can be\\nextended to handle IN SCHEMA, LIKE, etc., I'm of the opinion that this\\nkinda stuff belongs on the client side of things and _not_ in the\\nbackend. Putting MySQL's brokenness in the backend seems, well, to\\nperpetuate the brokenness and acknowledge that their brokenness isn't\\nreally that broken: not a message I'm fond of. Putting MySQL's\\nbrokenness in psql and hiding it behind the --mysql CLI option,\\nhowever, is tolerably broken, IMHO and of the same use as ora2pg or\\nmysql2pg.\\n\\nBruce wrote:\\n> Where do we want to go with this? It is interesting that it maps\\n> MySQL SHOW commands on top of our existing SHOW syntax in psql. The\\n> patch doesn't look too big.\\n>\\n> Should this be applied? Sean, I know you have a newer patch the the\\n> URL you posted isn't good anymore. This also contains GUC change.\\n> Sean, would you show each one you added and we can discuss if any\\n> are inappropriate.\\n\\nThe GUC change was just flushing out various GUC options that weren't\\navailable as tab completion options... the usefulness of those GUCs\\ncould be debated, but at least there's a complete list in the CLI\\nnow... having this pulled from the server would be wise, IMHO, but I\\ndidn't spend the time to add that at the time. If there's interest, I\\ncan do that.\\n\\nI have the patch someplace, don't worry about that. The patch isn't\\n100% correct as it stands: there is a problem in recognizing the end\\nof a SHOW command so that the query buffer was considered non-empty\\n(wasn't scanning properly for ;'s to emulate the end of a query:\\nsomething that's not necessary with the normal \\\\ syntax). Other than\\nthat, there are no bugs that I'm aware of and the work around is to\\nissue a \\\\r: not an earth shattering problem given psql has a history.\\nBefore I finished, I wanted to get some review/thoughts on the patch\\nbefore I completed the work and sent it off only to have it rejected.\\n\\nI know Tom doesn't like the idea because it's not \\\"clean,\\\" but I can't\\nhelp but feel that adding similar functionality to the backend is some\\nhow contaminating PostgreSQL and acknowledges MySQL's done something\\ncreditable, which is too big of an admission, especially since their\\nproduct is pretty fundamentally flawed in terms of spec compliance.\\nThe last thing we want is to have their brokenness turn into spec and\\nfor that to become the norm. So, as life would have it, I'm an\\nadvocate of adding the SHOW syntax to psql and an opponent of having it\\nin the backend, the core developers would rather have the SHOW syntax\\nin the backend because it's not clean to have it in the front end.\\n*shrug*\\n\\npsql has to have a quasi-parser in the front end as is to handle tab\\ncompletion, so I don't really buy the argument that it's bad to have a\\nparser in the front end (sorry Tom). In fact, I actually think that\\nthe parser in psql needs to be _beefed up_ and made _smarter_ that way\\npsql's more user friendly, even if that means increasing the\\ncomplexity of psql. At the moment, there are short falls with psql's\\nability to perform tab completion of column names on aliased tables,\\netc. Some of it's non-trivial and won't ever see the light of day in\\npsql, but there is room for improvement. Anyway, usability is a\\nproblem for clients, not for servers. MySQL usability belongs in the\\nclient, not the backend.... and hidden behind a CLI flag at that\\n'cause I don't available in my personal development environment.\\n\\nAnd before someone says, \\\"that's fine and dandy, who's going to do the\\nwork on psql,\\\" I'll gladly work on psql and even go so far as to clean\\nup the code now that someone's around to apply the patches. :)\\n\\n*listens and waits before updating the patch and fixing the above\\n bugs* -sc\\n\\n-- \\nSean Chittenden\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sat, 31 May 2003 18:43:23 -0700\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Sean Chittenden <sean@chittenden.org>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Are we losing momentum?\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> It would also be interesting to combine this with Rod's idea of driving\\n> describe-type queries by table instead of hardwired code. Imagine that\\n> the backend's \\\"show foo\\\" command first looks for \\\"foo\\\" as a GUC\\n> variable, as it does now, but upon failing to find one it looks in a\\n> system table for a query associated with the name \\\"foo\\\". If it finds\\n> such a query, it runs it and sends back the result. Now, not only can\\n> we emulate \\\"show tables\\\", but people can easily add application-specific\\n> \\\"show whatever\\\" commands, which seems tremendously cool.\\n\\nEasy enough to accomplish for the most part. I suppose the most\\ndifficult part is whether we support arbitrary syntax?\\n\\nSHOW INDEXES ON TABLE <bleah>;\\nSHOW TABLES;\\nSHOW DATABASES;\\nSHOW COLUMNS FROM <table>; <-- Long form of DESCRIBE <table>\\n\\nI believe all of the above is valid MySQL syntax, so we would need to be\\nable to work with a list of colId, rather than a single one.\\n\\nThis does not help with tab completion or help for the above items. \\nThough one could certainly argue help on available commands should come\\nfrom the backend, and psql could be taught how to read the table to\\ndetermine how to deal with tab completion.\\n\\nOne significant downside is that describe commands would require an\\ninitdb when updated.\\n\\nOh, if it's the backend doing the work, the queries should probably be\\nfunctions, not free-form queries. Simply makes it easier to inject\\nvariables into the right place. In the initial patch, psql is using a\\nprepared statement for this work with the side benefit that the plan is\\ncached. An SQL function would accomplish the same thing.\\n\\n-- \\nRod Taylor <rbt@rbt.ca>\\n\\nPGP Key: http://www.rbt.ca/rbtpub.asc\",\n \"msg_date\": \"31 May 2003 23:08:49 -0400\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Rod Taylor <rbt@rbt.ca>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Are we losing momentum?\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"[ moving this thread to a more appropriate place ]\\n\\nSean Chittenden <sean@chittenden.org> writes:\\n>> It would also be interesting to combine this with Rod's idea of\\n>> driving describe-type queries by table instead of hardwired code.\\n>> Imagine that the backend's \\\"show foo\\\" command first looks for \\\"foo\\\"\\n>> as a GUC variable, as it does now, but upon failing to find one it\\n>> looks in a system table for a query associated with the name \\\"foo\\\".\\n>> If it finds such a query, it runs it and sends back the result.\\n>> Now, not only can we emulate \\\"show tables\\\", but people can easily\\n>> add application-specific \\\"show whatever\\\" commands, which seems\\n>> tremendously cool.\\n\\n> I really like the ability to program in queries or syntaxes into the\\n> backend, but as it stands, SHOW foo would have to be pretty smart to\\n> handle the LIKE clauses and other bits.\\n\\nIt's certainly doable. I thought more about how to handle parameters\\nand such, and came up with this sketch:\\n\\n1. We generalize the SHOW syntax to accept 1 or more identifiers (might\\nas well allow strings too). The existing special cases like SHOW TIME\\nZONE would be taken out of the grammar and checked for at runtime.\\n\\n2. The \\\"key\\\" field of the show_queries table is an array of one or more\\nstrings that can be either keywords or parameter placeholders ($n).\\nThere must be at least one keyword. Then SHOW matches a particular\\ntable entry if there are the right number of words and all the keyword\\nstrings match the corresponding words. The other words become the\\nparameter values.\\n\\n3. The \\\"query\\\" field of the table is a SELECT possibly containing\\nparameter references $n. This can be handled the same way as a\\npreparable statement (we already have mechanisms for resolving the types\\nof the parameters).\\n\\nWhile I haven't studied the MySQL manual to see what-all they allow,\\nthis certainly seems sufficient to support \\\"SHOW TABLE foo\\\" and similar\\nvariants. And the possibility of user-added extensions to the table\\nseems really cool.\\n\\n> And how would tab completion be handled in psql?\\n\\nYou look at the table to see what can come after SHOW. We already have\\ndatabase-driven completion, so this doesn't seem out of reach.\\n\\nOne thing that is doable with psql's current hard-wired approach, but\\ndoesn't seem easy to do with this solution, is automatic localization\\nof strings such as column headings. Rod had looked at that a little\\nin his trial patch to convert psql's \\\\d stuff to table-driven form,\\nbut AFAIR he didn't have a satisfactory answer.\\n\\n\\t\\t\\tregards, tom lane\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sun, 01 Jun 2003 12:03:08 -0400\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Table-driven SHOW (was Re: Are we losing momentum?)\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Tom Lane writes:\\n\\n> Now, not only can we emulate \\\"show tables\\\", but people can easily add\\n> application-specific \\\"show whatever\\\" commands, which seems tremendously\\n> cool.\\n\\nWe already have that. They're called views.\\n\\n-- \\nPeter Eisentraut peter_e@gmx.net\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sun, 1 Jun 2003 23:52:45 +0200 (CEST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Are we losing momentum? \"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> > Now, not only can we emulate \\\"show tables\\\", but people can easily\\n> > add application-specific \\\"show whatever\\\" commands, which seems\\n> > tremendously cool.\\n> \\n> We already have that. They're called views.\\n\\nUm, I'm interested in aiding in the conversion of users from MySQL to\\nPostgreSQL (how ever it happens, I don't really care). Tom and Rod\\nare interested in an extensible/programmable SHOW syntax (very cool\\nand much more interesting than the hack I put together). Views solve\\nnone of the above problems. -sc\\n\\n-- \\nSean Chittenden\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sun, 1 Jun 2003 14:57:27 -0700\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Sean Chittenden <sean@chittenden.org>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Are we losing momentum?\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> One thing that is doable with psql's current hard-wired approach, but\\n> doesn't seem easy to do with this solution, is automatic localization\\n> of strings such as column headings. Rod had looked at that a little\\n> in his trial patch to convert psql's \\\\d stuff to table-driven form,\\n> but AFAIR he didn't have a satisfactory answer.\\n\\nI've yet to come up with anything better. Best answer I've come up with\\nis to make the column headings a separate query result set and let the\\nback-end do the translations.\\n\\n-- \\nRod Taylor <rbt@rbt.ca>\\n\\nPGP Key: http://www.rbt.ca/rbtpub.asc\",\n \"msg_date\": \"01 Jun 2003 20:02:45 -0400\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Rod Taylor <rbt@rbt.ca>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: Table-driven SHOW (was Re: Are we losing momentum?)\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Sean Chittenden writes:\\n\\n> Um, I'm interested in aiding in the conversion of users from MySQL to\\n> PostgreSQL (how ever it happens, I don't really care).\\n\\nYour approach to that reminds me of those\\n\\nalias dir='ls'\\nalias md='mkdir'\\n\\nthings that Linux distributors once stuck (or still stick?) in the default\\nprofile files, presumably to help conversion from DOS. It's pretty\\npointless, because Linux is still very different from DOS, and once you\\nwant to do something besides showing or changing directories, you will\\nneed documentation and training. That is what the MySQL conversion\\nprocess needs as well, otherwise you're not converting, you're emulating,\\nand that is not a game you can win.\\n\\n-- \\nPeter Eisentraut peter_e@gmx.net\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 2 Jun 2003 21:07:11 +0200 (CEST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Are we losing momentum?\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> > Um, I'm interested in aiding in the conversion of users from MySQL\\n> > to PostgreSQL (how ever it happens, I don't really care).\\n> \\n> Your approach to that reminds me of those\\n> \\n> alias dir='ls'\\n> alias md='mkdir'\\n> \\n> things that Linux distributors once stuck (or still stick?) in the\\n> default profile files, presumably to help conversion from DOS. It's\\n> pretty pointless, because Linux is still very different from DOS,\\n> and once you want to do something besides showing or changing\\n> directories, you will need documentation and training.\\n\\nWell, interestingly enough, those commands work for getting people in\\nthe door and to the point that they're able to learn more. The first\\nstep to any kind of adult education or reeducation is to have concepts\\nthat the people are familiar with (in this case MySQL) be translated\\ninto the concepts of the area that they're trying to learn. If you'd\\nhave read the original patch that I'd posted, you'd see that I'd done\\nthat by adding a TIP section to the top of the response.\\n\\n*SNIP*\\nSHOW COLUMNS FROM [tblname];\\n\\n TIP: In psql, \\\"SHOW COLUMNS FROM [tblname]\\\" is natively written as \\\\dt [tblname]\\n\\n[normal output from \\\\dt tblname]\\n*END SNIP*\\n\\nThe point of my patch was to aid the conversion, not to gimp along\\nb0rk3d habits from MySQL.\\n\\n> That is what the MySQL conversion process needs as well, otherwise\\n> you're not converting, you're emulating, and that is not a game you\\n> can win.\\n\\nEmulation within reason. dir->ls and md->mkdir worked for a handful\\nof people that I've transitioned into the UNIX world from Win32 land,\\nin fact, I have one friend from school who's been so successful that\\nhe's converted from using Win32 on his desktop to using Linux, worked\\nwith me on a job where we were hacking mod_perl on a site pushing in\\nexcess of 80Mbps to 25M people a day, but still types dir to this day.\\nNot bad for an aero student who graduated with a 4.0 in his major,\\nexceedingly bright, adaptive, learns fast, etc. My point is that\\nregardless of how bright the person or what the right invocation, aids\\nlike these help get people in the door and if they like what they see\\nonce they're through the door, they'll stay. Once people try and use\\nPostgreSQL, they stay. When people try MySQL, they're left wanting or\\nneeding more and are bound by the limits of the software... that's not\\nreally the case with PostgreSQL.\\n\\nTo get people to try, you play the association or emulation game and\\nit works. Ask anyone in adult education and they will say the same.\\nThe Internet was an \\\"information super highway\\\" because that was\\nsomething that people could grasp, regardless of how flawed it really\\nis. Bandwidth is thought of as pipes in various sizes diameters, a\\nmuch better analogy. To geeks, broadcast is explained as the same as\\nradio and unicast as satellite TV. To communication majors, TCP is\\ndescried as a letter that's been chopped up into a thousand numbered\\npieces and sent to the other side of the US via the postal mail.\\nLeche is milk to English speakers learning Spanish. One way or\\nanother, you have to play the game of working within the understanding\\nof the target audience, in this case, MySQL users who use a SHOW\\nTABLES type syntax.\\n\\n-sc\\n\\n-- \\nSean Chittenden\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 2 Jun 2003 12:37:55 -0700\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Sean Chittenden <sean@chittenden.org>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Are we losing momentum?\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\nWow, this is a good argument! I must admit I made 'ps -ef' work on BSD\\nbecause I was just so used to it on mainframe Unix. There is that\\n'fingers type without thinking' thing, and I think that is what he is\\ntalking about.\\n\\nI wonder if we should just support SHOW TABLES or the most common ones.\\n\\nMaybe emulation is the wrong approach --- maybe we just need 'finger\\nthinking' shortcuts.\\n\\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------\\n\\nSean Chittenden wrote:\\n> > > Um, I'm interested in aiding in the conversion of users from MySQL\\n> > > to PostgreSQL (how ever it happens, I don't really care).\\n> > \\n> > Your approach to that reminds me of those\\n> > \\n> > alias dir='ls'\\n> > alias md='mkdir'\\n> > \\n> > things that Linux distributors once stuck (or still stick?) in the\\n> > default profile files, presumably to help conversion from DOS. It's\\n> > pretty pointless, because Linux is still very different from DOS,\\n> > and once you want to do something besides showing or changing\\n> > directories, you will need documentation and training.\\n> \\n> Well, interestingly enough, those commands work for getting people in\\n> the door and to the point that they're able to learn more. The first\\n> step to any kind of adult education or reeducation is to have concepts\\n> that the people are familiar with (in this case MySQL) be translated\\n> into the concepts of the area that they're trying to learn. If you'd\\n> have read the original patch that I'd posted, you'd see that I'd done\\n> that by adding a TIP section to the top of the response.\\n> \\n> *SNIP*\\n> SHOW COLUMNS FROM [tblname];\\n> \\n> TIP: In psql, \\\"SHOW COLUMNS FROM [tblname]\\\" is natively written as \\\\dt [tblname]\\n> \\n> [normal output from \\\\dt tblname]\\n> *END SNIP*\\n> \\n> The point of my patch was to aid the conversion, not to gimp along\\n> b0rk3d habits from MySQL.\\n> \\n> > That is what the MySQL conversion process needs as well, otherwise\\n> > you're not converting, you're emulating, and that is not a game you\\n> > can win.\\n> \\n> Emulation within reason. dir->ls and md->mkdir worked for a handful\\n> of people that I've transitioned into the UNIX world from Win32 land,\\n> in fact, I have one friend from school who's been so successful that\\n> he's converted from using Win32 on his desktop to using Linux, worked\\n> with me on a job where we were hacking mod_perl on a site pushing in\\n> excess of 80Mbps to 25M people a day, but still types dir to this day.\\n> Not bad for an aero student who graduated with a 4.0 in his major,\\n> exceedingly bright, adaptive, learns fast, etc. My point is that\\n> regardless of how bright the person or what the right invocation, aids\\n> like these help get people in the door and if they like what they see\\n> once they're through the door, they'll stay. Once people try and use\\n> PostgreSQL, they stay. When people try MySQL, they're left wanting or\\n> needing more and are bound by the limits of the software... that's not\\n> really the case with PostgreSQL.\\n> \\n> To get people to try, you play the association or emulation game and\\n> it works. Ask anyone in adult education and they will say the same.\\n> The Internet was an \\\"information super highway\\\" because that was\\n> something that people could grasp, regardless of how flawed it really\\n> is. Bandwidth is thought of as pipes in various sizes diameters, a\\n> much better analogy. To geeks, broadcast is explained as the same as\\n> radio and unicast as satellite TV. To communication majors, TCP is\\n> descried as a letter that's been chopped up into a thousand numbered\\n> pieces and sent to the other side of the US via the postal mail.\\n> Leche is milk to English speakers learning Spanish. One way or\\n> another, you have to play the game of working within the understanding\\n> of the target audience, in this case, MySQL users who use a SHOW\\n> TABLES type syntax.\\n> \\n> -sc\\n> \\n> -- \\n> Sean Chittenden\\n> \\n> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------\\n> TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command\\n> (send \\\"unregister YourEmailAddressHere\\\" to majordomo@postgresql.org)\\n> \\n\\n-- \\n Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us\\n pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001\\n + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road\\n + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 2 Jun 2003 15:53:10 -0400 (EDT)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Are we losing momentum?\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\nI assume we agreed against adding a MySQL mode --- just verifying.\\n\\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------\\n\\nSean Chittenden wrote:\\n> > > That's a pretty reasonable thought. I work for a shop that sells\\n> > > Postgres support, and even we install MySQL for the Q&D ticket\\n> > > tracking system we recommend because we can't justify the cost to\\n> > > port it to postgres. If the postgres support were there, we would\\n> > > surely be using it.\\n> > \\n> > > How to fix such a situation, I'm not sure. \\\"MySQL Compatability\\n> > > Mode,\\\" anyone? :-)\\n> > \\n> > What issues are creating a compatibility problem for you?\\n> \\n> I don't think these should be hacked into the backend/libpq, but I\\n> think it'd be a huge win to hack in \\\"show *\\\" support into psql for\\n> MySQL users so they can type:\\n> \\n> SHOW (databases|tables|views|functions|triggers|schemas);\\n> \\n> I have yet to meet a MySQL user who understands the concept of system\\n> catalogs even though it's just the 'mysql' database (this irritates me\\n> enough as is)... gah, f- it: mysql users be damned, I have three\\n> developers that think that postgresql is too hard to use because they\\n> can't remember \\\"\\\\d [table name]\\\" and I'm tired of hearing them bitch\\n> when I push using PostgreSQL instead of MySQL. I have better things\\n> to do with my time than convert their output to PostgreSQL. Here goes\\n> nothing...\\n> \\n> I've tainted psql and added a MySQL command compatibility layer for\\n> the family of SHOW commands (psql [-m | --mysql]).\\n> \\n> \\n> The attached patch does a few things:\\n> \\n> 1) Implements quite a number of SHOW commands (AGGREGATES, CASTS,\\n> CATALOGS, COLUMNS, COMMENTS, CONSTRAINTS, CONVERSIONS, DATABASES,\\n> DOMAINS, FUNCTIONS, HELP, INDEX, LARGEOBJECTS, NAMES, OPERATORS,\\n> PRIVILEGES, PROCESSLIST, SCHEMAS, SEQUENCES, SESSION, STATUS,\\n> TABLES, TRANSACTION, TYPES, USERS, VARIABLES, VIEWS)\\n> \\n> SHOW thing\\n> SHOW thing LIKE pattern\\n> SHOW thing FROM pattern\\n> SHOW HELP ON (topic || ALL);\\n> etc.\\n> \\n> Some of these don't have \\\\ command eqiv's. :( I was tempted to add\\n> them, but opted not to for now, but it'd certainly be a nice to\\n> have.\\n> \\n> 2) Implements the necessary tab completion for the SHOW commands for\\n> the tab happy newbies/folks out there. psql is more friendly than\\n> mysql's CLI now in terms of tab completion for the show commands.\\n> \\n> 3) Few trailing whitespace characters were nuked\\n> \\n> 4) guc.c is now in sync with the list of available variables used for\\n> tab completion\\n> \\n> \\n> Few things to note:\\n> \\n> 1) SHOW INDEXES is the same as SHOW INDEX, I think MySQL is wrong in\\n> this regard and that it should be INDEXES to be plural along with\\n> the rest of the types, but INDEX is preserved for compatibility.\\n> \\n> 2) There are two bugs that I have yet to address\\n> \\n> 1) SHOW VARIABLES doesn't work, but \\\"SHOW [TAB][TAB]y\\\" does\\n> 2) \\\"SHOW [variable_of_choice];\\\" doesn't work, but \\\"SHOW\\n> [variable_of_choice]\\\\n;\\\" does work... not sure where this\\n> problem is coming from\\n> \\n> 3) I think psql is more usable as a result of this more verbose\\n> syntax, but it's not the prettiest thing on the planet (wrote a\\n> small parser outside of the backend or libraries: I don't want to\\n> get those dirty with MySQL's filth).\\n> \\n> 4) In an attempt to wean people over to PostgreSQL's syntax, I\\n> included translation tips on how to use the psql equiv of the SHOW\\n> commands. Going from SHOW foo to \\\\d foo is easy, going from \\\\d foo\\n> to SHOW foo is hard and drives me nuts. This'll help userbase\\n> retention of newbies/converts. :)\\n> \\n> 5) The MySQL mode is just a bounce layer that provides different\\n> syntax wrapping exec_command() so it should provide little in the\\n> way of maintenance headaches. Some of the SHOW commands, however,\\n> don't have \\\\ couterparts, but once they do and that code is\\n> centralized, this feature should come for zero cost.\\n> \\n> 6) As an administrator, I'd be interested in having an environment\\n> variable that I could set that'd turn on MySQL mode for some of my\\n> bozo users that way they don't complain if they forget the -m\\n> switch. Thoughts?\\n> \\n> \\n> I'll try and iron out the last of those two bugs/features, but at this\\n> point, would like to see this patch get wider testing/feedback.\\n> Comments, as always, are welcome.\\n> \\n> PostgreSQL_usability++\\n> \\n> -sc\\n> \\n> -- \\n> Sean Chittenden\\n\\n[ Attachment, skipping... ]\\n\\n> \\n> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------\\n> TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate\\n> subscribe-nomail command to majordomo@postgresql.org so that your\\n> message can get through to the mailing list cleanly\\n\\n-- \\n Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us\\n pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001\\n + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road\\n + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sat, 16 Aug 2003 19:22:47 -0400 (EDT)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Are we losing momentum?\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Bruce Momjian wrote:\\n\\n> I assume we agreed against adding a MySQL mode --- just verifying.\\n\\nWe agreed that applications that need schema information are much better \\noff using the schema views.\\n\\n\\nJan\\n\\n> \\n> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\\n> \\n> Sean Chittenden wrote:\\n>> > > That's a pretty reasonable thought. I work for a shop that sells\\n>> > > Postgres support, and even we install MySQL for the Q&D ticket\\n>> > > tracking system we recommend because we can't justify the cost to\\n>> > > port it to postgres. If the postgres support were there, we would\\n>> > > surely be using it.\\n>> > \\n>> > > How to fix such a situation, I'm not sure. \\\"MySQL Compatability\\n>> > > Mode,\\\" anyone? :-)\\n>> > \\n>> > What issues are creating a compatibility problem for you?\\n>> \\n>> I don't think these should be hacked into the backend/libpq, but I\\n>> think it'd be a huge win to hack in \\\"show *\\\" support into psql for\\n>> MySQL users so they can type:\\n>> \\n>> SHOW (databases|tables|views|functions|triggers|schemas);\\n>> \\n>> I have yet to meet a MySQL user who understands the concept of system\\n>> catalogs even though it's just the 'mysql' database (this irritates me\\n>> enough as is)... gah, f- it: mysql users be damned, I have three\\n>> developers that think that postgresql is too hard to use because they\\n>> can't remember \\\"\\\\d [table name]\\\" and I'm tired of hearing them bitch\\n>> when I push using PostgreSQL instead of MySQL. I have better things\\n>> to do with my time than convert their output to PostgreSQL. Here goes\\n>> nothing...\\n>> \\n>> I've tainted psql and added a MySQL command compatibility layer for\\n>> the family of SHOW commands (psql [-m | --mysql]).\\n>> \\n>> \\n>> The attached patch does a few things:\\n>> \\n>> 1) Implements quite a number of SHOW commands (AGGREGATES, CASTS,\\n>> CATALOGS, COLUMNS, COMMENTS, CONSTRAINTS, CONVERSIONS, DATABASES,\\n>> DOMAINS, FUNCTIONS, HELP, INDEX, LARGEOBJECTS, NAMES, OPERATORS,\\n>> PRIVILEGES, PROCESSLIST, SCHEMAS, SEQUENCES, SESSION, STATUS,\\n>> TABLES, TRANSACTION, TYPES, USERS, VARIABLES, VIEWS)\\n>> \\n>> SHOW thing\\n>> SHOW thing LIKE pattern\\n>> SHOW thing FROM pattern\\n>> SHOW HELP ON (topic || ALL);\\n>> etc.\\n>> \\n>> Some of these don't have \\\\ command eqiv's. :( I was tempted to add\\n>> them, but opted not to for now, but it'd certainly be a nice to\\n>> have.\\n>> \\n>> 2) Implements the necessary tab completion for the SHOW commands for\\n>> the tab happy newbies/folks out there. psql is more friendly than\\n>> mysql's CLI now in terms of tab completion for the show commands.\\n>> \\n>> 3) Few trailing whitespace characters were nuked\\n>> \\n>> 4) guc.c is now in sync with the list of available variables used for\\n>> tab completion\\n>> \\n>> \\n>> Few things to note:\\n>> \\n>> 1) SHOW INDEXES is the same as SHOW INDEX, I think MySQL is wrong in\\n>> this regard and that it should be INDEXES to be plural along with\\n>> the rest of the types, but INDEX is preserved for compatibility.\\n>> \\n>> 2) There are two bugs that I have yet to address\\n>> \\n>> 1) SHOW VARIABLES doesn't work, but \\\"SHOW [TAB][TAB]y\\\" does\\n>> 2) \\\"SHOW [variable_of_choice];\\\" doesn't work, but \\\"SHOW\\n>> [variable_of_choice]\\\\n;\\\" does work... not sure where this\\n>> problem is coming from\\n>> \\n>> 3) I think psql is more usable as a result of this more verbose\\n>> syntax, but it's not the prettiest thing on the planet (wrote a\\n>> small parser outside of the backend or libraries: I don't want to\\n>> get those dirty with MySQL's filth).\\n>> \\n>> 4) In an attempt to wean people over to PostgreSQL's syntax, I\\n>> included translation tips on how to use the psql equiv of the SHOW\\n>> commands. Going from SHOW foo to \\\\d foo is easy, going from \\\\d foo\\n>> to SHOW foo is hard and drives me nuts. This'll help userbase\\n>> retention of newbies/converts. :)\\n>> \\n>> 5) The MySQL mode is just a bounce layer that provides different\\n>> syntax wrapping exec_command() so it should provide little in the\\n>> way of maintenance headaches. Some of the SHOW commands, however,\\n>> don't have \\\\ couterparts, but once they do and that code is\\n>> centralized, this feature should come for zero cost.\\n>> \\n>> 6) As an administrator, I'd be interested in having an environment\\n>> variable that I could set that'd turn on MySQL mode for some of my\\n>> bozo users that way they don't complain if they forget the -m\\n>> switch. Thoughts?\\n>> \\n>> \\n>> I'll try and iron out the last of those two bugs/features, but at this\\n>> point, would like to see this patch get wider testing/feedback.\\n>> Comments, as always, are welcome.\\n>> \\n>> PostgreSQL_usability++\\n>> \\n>> -sc\\n>> \\n>> -- \\n>> Sean Chittenden\\n> \\n> [ Attachment, skipping... ]\\n> \\n>> \\n>> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------\\n>> TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate\\n>> subscribe-nomail command to majordomo@postgresql.org so that your\\n>> message can get through to the mailing list cleanly\\n> \\n\\n\\n-- \\n#======================================================================#\\n# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #\\n# Let's break this rule - forgive me. #\\n#================================================== JanWieck@Yahoo.com #\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sat, 16 Aug 2003 22:41:39 -0400\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Jan Wieck <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Are we losing momentum?\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\nPersonally, I think adding the SHOW commands would be a good thing ...\\npsql is nice with its \\\\df to get information without having to learn all\\nthe JOINs required ... having that ability easily from any of the\\ninterfaces would definitely be a plus ... to me, its not about MySQL\\ncompatibility, but about a small improvement to ease of use :)\\n\\nOn Sat, 16 Aug 2003, Bruce Momjian wrote:\\n\\n>\\n> I assume we agreed against adding a MySQL mode --- just verifying.\\n>\\n> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\\n>\\n> Sean Chittenden wrote:\\n> > > > That's a pretty reasonable thought. I work for a shop that sells\\n> > > > Postgres support, and even we install MySQL for the Q&D ticket\\n> > > > tracking system we recommend because we can't justify the cost to\\n> > > > port it to postgres. If the postgres support were there, we would\\n> > > > surely be using it.\\n> > >\\n> > > > How to fix such a situation, I'm not sure. \\\"MySQL Compatability\\n> > > > Mode,\\\" anyone? :-)\\n> > >\\n> > > What issues are creating a compatibility problem for you?\\n> >\\n> > I don't think these should be hacked into the backend/libpq, but I\\n> > think it'd be a huge win to hack in \\\"show *\\\" support into psql for\\n> > MySQL users so they can type:\\n> >\\n> > SHOW (databases|tables|views|functions|triggers|schemas);\\n> >\\n> > I have yet to meet a MySQL user who understands the concept of system\\n> > catalogs even though it's just the 'mysql' database (this irritates me\\n> > enough as is)... gah, f- it: mysql users be damned, I have three\\n> > developers that think that postgresql is too hard to use because they\\n> > can't remember \\\"\\\\d [table name]\\\" and I'm tired of hearing them bitch\\n> > when I push using PostgreSQL instead of MySQL. I have better things\\n> > to do with my time than convert their output to PostgreSQL. Here goes\\n> > nothing...\\n> >\\n> > I've tainted psql and added a MySQL command compatibility layer for\\n> > the family of SHOW commands (psql [-m | --mysql]).\\n> >\\n> >\\n> > The attached patch does a few things:\\n> >\\n> > 1) Implements quite a number of SHOW commands (AGGREGATES, CASTS,\\n> > CATALOGS, COLUMNS, COMMENTS, CONSTRAINTS, CONVERSIONS, DATABASES,\\n> > DOMAINS, FUNCTIONS, HELP, INDEX, LARGEOBJECTS, NAMES, OPERATORS,\\n> > PRIVILEGES, PROCESSLIST, SCHEMAS, SEQUENCES, SESSION, STATUS,\\n> > TABLES, TRANSACTION, TYPES, USERS, VARIABLES, VIEWS)\\n> >\\n> > SHOW thing\\n> > SHOW thing LIKE pattern\\n> > SHOW thing FROM pattern\\n> > SHOW HELP ON (topic || ALL);\\n> > etc.\\n> >\\n> > Some of these don't have \\\\ command eqiv's. :( I was tempted to add\\n> > them, but opted not to for now, but it'd certainly be a nice to\\n> > have.\\n> >\\n> > 2) Implements the necessary tab completion for the SHOW commands for\\n> > the tab happy newbies/folks out there. psql is more friendly than\\n> > mysql's CLI now in terms of tab completion for the show commands.\\n> >\\n> > 3) Few trailing whitespace characters were nuked\\n> >\\n> > 4) guc.c is now in sync with the list of available variables used for\\n> > tab completion\\n> >\\n> >\\n> > Few things to note:\\n> >\\n> > 1) SHOW INDEXES is the same as SHOW INDEX, I think MySQL is wrong in\\n> > this regard and that it should be INDEXES to be plural along with\\n> > the rest of the types, but INDEX is preserved for compatibility.\\n> >\\n> > 2) There are two bugs that I have yet to address\\n> >\\n> > 1) SHOW VARIABLES doesn't work, but \\\"SHOW [TAB][TAB]y\\\" does\\n> > 2) \\\"SHOW [variable_of_choice];\\\" doesn't work, but \\\"SHOW\\n> > [variable_of_choice]\\\\n;\\\" does work... not sure where this\\n> > problem is coming from\\n> >\\n> > 3) I think psql is more usable as a result of this more verbose\\n> > syntax, but it's not the prettiest thing on the planet (wrote a\\n> > small parser outside of the backend or libraries: I don't want to\\n> > get those dirty with MySQL's filth).\\n> >\\n> > 4) In an attempt to wean people over to PostgreSQL's syntax, I\\n> > included translation tips on how to use the psql equiv of the SHOW\\n> > commands. Going from SHOW foo to \\\\d foo is easy, going from \\\\d foo\\n> > to SHOW foo is hard and drives me nuts. This'll help userbase\\n> > retention of newbies/converts. :)\\n> >\\n> > 5) The MySQL mode is just a bounce layer that provides different\\n> > syntax wrapping exec_command() so it should provide little in the\\n> > way of maintenance headaches. Some of the SHOW commands, however,\\n> > don't have \\\\ couterparts, but once they do and that code is\\n> > centralized, this feature should come for zero cost.\\n> >\\n> > 6) As an administrator, I'd be interested in having an environment\\n> > variable that I could set that'd turn on MySQL mode for some of my\\n> > bozo users that way they don't complain if they forget the -m\\n> > switch. Thoughts?\\n> >\\n> >\\n> > I'll try and iron out the last of those two bugs/features, but at this\\n> > point, would like to see this patch get wider testing/feedback.\\n> > Comments, as always, are welcome.\\n> >\\n> > PostgreSQL_usability++\\n> >\\n> > -sc\\n> >\\n> > --\\n> > Sean Chittenden\\n>\\n> [ Attachment, skipping... ]\\n>\\n> >\\n> > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------\\n> > TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate\\n> > subscribe-nomail command to majordomo@postgresql.org so that your\\n> > message can get through to the mailing list cleanly\\n>\\n> --\\n> Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us\\n> pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001\\n> + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road\\n> + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073\\n>\\n> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------\\n> TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to majordomo@postgresql.org\\n>\\n\\nMarc G. Fournier ICQ#7615664 IRC Nick: Scrappy\\nSystems Administrator @ hub.org\\nprimary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sat, 16 Aug 2003 23:48:59 -0300 (ADT)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@postgresql.org>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Are we losing momentum?\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> Bruce Momjian wrote:\\n> >I assume we agreed against adding a MySQL mode --- just verifying.\\n> \\n> We agreed that applications that need schema information are much better \\n> off using the schema views.\\n> \\n> Jan\\n\\nHeh, I don't think there was any agreement on anything in that thread,\\neveryone had their own view (no pun intended).\\n\\n> From: The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@postgresql.org>\\n>\\n> Personally, I think adding the SHOW commands would be a good thing\\n> ... psql is nice with its \\\\df to get information without having to\\n> learn all the JOINs required ... having that ability easily from any\\n> of the interfaces would definitely be a plus ... to me, its not\\n> about MySQL compatibility, but about a small improvement to ease of\\n> use :)\\n\\nWhich goes back to the point about there being little agreement on\\nthis patch or its issues. A handful of folks think it's a _user\\ninterface_ issue (read: psql, phppgadmin, pgadminIII, etc) and would\\nbe good for converting MySQL users to PostgreSQL (or simply because\\nits easy and less obtuse than a \\\\ command), others thought it was a\\nfugly hack to have a parser in the front end and that it should be\\nhandled on the backend by extending SQL to conform to MySQL's\\ninterface (that some argue is incorrect and would unjustly bloat the\\nbackend) that way all clients have the SHOW syntax (thus averting a\\npossible FAQ), and others took a more elitist mindset and simply\\nthought that everyone should just select from the information schemas.\\n\\n*shrug* I tabled working on the patch until there was some kind of\\nagreement from someone with commit privs and am waiting to pick up\\nquashing the remaining parser state bug until after 7.4's out the door\\nor there's renewed interest from non-users.\\n\\n-sc\\n\\n-- \\nSean Chittenden\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sat, 16 Aug 2003 22:48:16 -0700\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Sean Chittenden <sean@chittenden.org>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Are we losing momentum?\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Short summary:\\n\\n This patch allows ISO 8601 \\\"time intervals\\\" using the \\\"format \\n with time-unit designators\\\" to specify postgresql \\\"intervals\\\".\\n\\n Below I have (A) What these time intervals are, (B) What I\\n modified to support them, (C) Issues with intervals I want\\n to bring up, and (D) a patch supporting them.\\n\\n It's helpful to me. Any feedback is appreciated. If you \\n did want to consider including it, let me know what to clean \\n up. If not, I thought I'd just put it here if anyone else finds\\n it useful too.\\n\\n Thanks for your time,\\n \\n Ron Mayer\\n\\nLonger:\\n\\n(A) What these intervals are.\\n\\n ISO 8601, the standard from which PostgreSQL gets some of it's \\n time syntax, also has a specification for \\\"time-intervals\\\".\\n \\n In particular, section 5.5.4.2 has a \\\"Representation of\\n time-interval by duration only\\\" which I believe maps\\n nicely to ISO intervals.\\n\\n Compared to the ISO 8601 time interval specification, the\\n postgresql interval syntax is quite verbose. For example:\\n\\n Postgresql interval: ISO8601 Interval\\n ---------------------------------------------------\\n '1 year 6 months' 'P1Y6M'\\n '3 hours 25 minutes 42 seconds' 'PT3H25M42S'\\n\\n Yeah, it's uglier, but it sure is short which can make\\n for quicker typing and shorter scripts, and if for some\\n strange reason you had an application using this format\\n it's nice not to have to translate.\\n\\n The syntax is as follows:\\n Basic extended format: PnYnMnDTnHnMnS\\n PnW\\n\\n Where everything before the \\\"T\\\" is a date-part and everything\\n after is a time-part. W is for weeks.\\n In the date-part, Y=Year, M=Month, D=Day\\n In the time-part, H=Hour, M=Minute, S=Second\\n\\n Much more info can be found from the draft standard\\n ftp://ftp.qsl.net/pub/g1smd/154N362_.PDF\\n The final standard's only available for $$$ so I didn't\\n look at it. Some other sites imply that this part didn't\\n change from the last draft to the standard.\\n\\n\\n(B) This change was made by adding two functions to \\\"datetime.c\\\"\\n next to where DecodeInterval parses the normal interval syntax.\\n\\n A total of 313 lines were added, including comments and sgml docs.\\n Of these only 136 are actual code, the rest, comments, whitespace, etc.\\n\\n\\n One new function \\\"DecodeISO8601Interval\\\" follows the style of\\n \\\"DecodeInterval\\\" below it, and trys to strictly follow the ISO\\n syntax. If it doesn't match, it'll return -1 and the old syntax\\n will be checked as before.\\n\\n The first test (first character of the first field must be 'P', \\n and second character must be 'T' or '\\\\0') should be fast so I don't\\n think this will impact performance of existing code.\\n\\n\\n The second function (\\\"adjust_fval\\\") is just a small helper-function\\n to remove some of the cut&paste style that DecodeInterval used.\\n\\n It seems to work.\\n =======================================================================\\n betadb=# select 'P1M15DT12H30M7S'::interval;\\n interval \\n ------------------------\\n 1 mon 15 days 12:30:07\\n (1 row)\\n\\n betadb=# select '1 month 15 days 12 hours 30 minutes 7 seconds'::interval;\\n\\t interval \\n ------------------------\\n 1 mon 15 days 12:30:07\\n (1 row)\\n =====================================================================\\n\\n\\n\\n(C) Open issues with intervals, and questions I'd like to ask.\\n\\n 1. DecodeInterval seems to have a hardcoded '.' for specifying\\n fractional times. ISO 8601 states that both '.' and ',' are\\n ok, but \\\"of these, the comma is the preferred sign\\\".\\n\\n In DecodeISO8601Interval I loosened the test to allow\\n both but left it as it was in DecodeInterval. Should\\n both be changed to make them more consistant?\\n\\n 2. In \\\"DecodeInterval\\\", fractional weeks and fractional months\\n can produce seconds; but fractional years can not (rounded\\n to months). I didn't understand the reasoning for this, so\\n I left it the same, and followed the same convention for\\n ISO intervals. Should I change this?\\n\\n 3. I could save a bunch of copy-paste-lines-of-code from the\\n pre-existing DecodeInterval by calling the adjust_fval helper\\n function. The tradeoff is a few extra function-calls when\\n decoding an interval. However I didn't want to risk changes\\n to the existing part unless you guys encourage me to do so.\\n\\n\\n(D) The patch.\\n\\n\\nIndex: doc/src/sgml/datatype.sgml\\n===================================================================\\nRCS file: /projects/cvsroot/pgsql-server/doc/src/sgml/datatype.sgml,v\\nretrieving revision 1.123\\ndiff -u -1 -0 -r1.123 datatype.sgml\\n--- doc/src/sgml/datatype.sgml\\t31 Aug 2003 17:32:18 -0000\\t1.123\\n+++ doc/src/sgml/datatype.sgml\\t8 Sep 2003 04:04:58 -0000\\n@@ -1735,20 +1735,71 @@\\n Quantities of days, hours, minutes, and seconds can be specified without\\n explicit unit markings. For example, <literal>'1 12:59:10'</> is read\\n the same as <literal>'1 day 12 hours 59 min 10 sec'</>.\\n </para>\\n \\n <para>\\n The optional precision\\n <replaceable>p</replaceable> should be between 0 and 6, and\\n defaults to the precision of the input literal.\\n </para>\\n+\\n+\\n+ <para>\\n+ Alternatively, <type>interval</type> values can be written as \\n+ ISO 8601 time intervals, using the \\\"Format with time-unit designators\\\".\\n+ This format always starts with the character <literal>'P'</>, followed \\n+ by a string of values followed by single character time-unit designators.\\n+ A <literal>'T'</> separates the date and time parts of the interval.\\n+ </para>\\n+\\n+ <para>\\n+ Format: PnYnMnDTnHnMnS\\n+ </para>\\n+ <para>\\n+ In this format, <literal>'n'</> gets replaced by a number, and \\n+ <literal>Y</> represents years, \\n+ <literal>M</> (in the date part) months,\\n+ <literal>D</> months,\\n+ <literal>H</> hours,\\n+ <literal>M</> (in the time part) minutes,\\n+ and <literal>S</> seconds.\\n+ </para>\\n+ \\n+\\n+ <table id=\\\"interval-example-table\\\">\\n+\\t <title>Interval Example</title>\\n+\\t <tgroup cols=\\\"2\\\">\\n+\\t\\t<thead>\\n+\\t\\t <row>\\n+\\t\\t <entry>Traditional</entry>\\n+\\t\\t <entry>ISO-8601 time-interval</entry>\\n+\\t\\t </row>\\n+\\t\\t</thead>\\n+\\t\\t<tbody>\\n+\\t\\t <row>\\n+\\t\\t <entry>1 month</entry>\\n+\\t\\t <entry>P1M</entry>\\n+\\t\\t </row>\\n+\\t\\t <row>\\n+\\t\\t <entry>1 hour 30 minutes</entry>\\n+\\t\\t <entry>PT1H30M</entry>\\n+\\t\\t </row>\\n+\\t\\t <row>\\n+\\t\\t <entry>2 years 10 months 15 days 10 hours 30 minutes 20 seconds</entry>\\n+\\t\\t <entry>P2Y10M15DT10H30M20S</entry>\\n+\\t\\t </row>\\n+\\t\\t</tbody>\\n+\\t </thead>\\n+\\t </table>\\n+\\t \\n+ </para>\\n </sect3>\\n \\n <sect3>\\n <title>Special Values</title>\\n \\n <indexterm>\\n <primary>time</primary>\\n <secondary>constants</secondary>\\n </indexterm>\\n \\nIndex: src/backend/utils/adt/datetime.c\\n===================================================================\\nRCS file: /projects/cvsroot/pgsql-server/src/backend/utils/adt/datetime.c,v\\nretrieving revision 1.116\\ndiff -u -1 -0 -r1.116 datetime.c\\n--- src/backend/utils/adt/datetime.c\\t27 Aug 2003 23:29:28 -0000\\t1.116\\n+++ src/backend/utils/adt/datetime.c\\t8 Sep 2003 04:04:59 -0000\\n@@ -30,20 +30,21 @@\\n \\t\\t\\t struct tm * tm, fsec_t *fsec, int *is2digits);\\n static int DecodeNumberField(int len, char *str,\\n \\t\\t\\t\\t int fmask, int *tmask,\\n \\t\\t\\t\\t struct tm * tm, fsec_t *fsec, int *is2digits);\\n static int DecodeTime(char *str, int fmask, int *tmask,\\n \\t\\t struct tm * tm, fsec_t *fsec);\\n static int\\tDecodeTimezone(char *str, int *tzp);\\n static datetkn *datebsearch(char *key, datetkn *base, unsigned int nel);\\n static int\\tDecodeDate(char *str, int fmask, int *tmask, struct tm * tm);\\n static void TrimTrailingZeros(char *str);\\n+static int DecodeISO8601Interval(char **field, int *ftype, int nf, int *dtype, struct tm * tm, fsec_t *fsec);\\n \\n \\n int\\t\\t\\tday_tab[2][13] = {\\n \\t{31, 28, 31, 30, 31, 30, 31, 31, 30, 31, 30, 31, 0},\\n {31, 29, 31, 30, 31, 30, 31, 31, 30, 31, 30, 31, 0}};\\n \\n char\\t *months[] = {\\\"Jan\\\", \\\"Feb\\\", \\\"Mar\\\", \\\"Apr\\\", \\\"May\\\", \\\"Jun\\\",\\n \\\"Jul\\\", \\\"Aug\\\", \\\"Sep\\\", \\\"Oct\\\", \\\"Nov\\\", \\\"Dec\\\", NULL};\\n \\n char\\t *days[] = {\\\"Sunday\\\", \\\"Monday\\\", \\\"Tuesday\\\", \\\"Wednesday\\\",\\n@@ -2872,30 +2873,271 @@\\n \\t\\t\\tdefault:\\n \\t\\t\\t\\t*val = tp->value;\\n \\t\\t\\t\\tbreak;\\n \\t\\t}\\n \\t}\\n \\n \\treturn type;\\n }\\n \\n \\n+void adjust_fval(double fval,struct tm * tm, fsec_t *fsec, int scale);\\n+{\\n+\\tint\\tsec;\\n+\\tfval\\t *= scale;\\n+\\tsec\\t\\t = fval;\\n+\\ttm->tm_sec += sec;\\n+#ifdef HAVE_INT64_TIMESTAMP\\n+\\t*fsec\\t += ((fval - sec) * 1000000);\\n+#else\\n+\\t*fsec\\t += (fval - sec);\\n+#endif\\n+}\\n+\\n+\\n+/* DecodeISO8601Interval()\\n+ *\\n+ * Check if it's a ISO 8601 Section 5.5.4.2 \\\"Representation of\\n+ * time-interval by duration only.\\\" \\n+ * Basic extended format: PnYnMnDTnHnMnS\\n+ * PnW\\n+ * For more info.\\n+ * http://www.astroclark.freeserve.co.uk/iso8601/index.html\\n+ * ftp://ftp.qsl.net/pub/g1smd/154N362_.PDF\\n+ *\\n+ * Examples: P1D for 1 day\\n+ * PT1H for 1 hour\\n+ * P2Y6M7DT1H30M for 2 years, 6 months, 7 days 1 hour 30 min\\n+ *\\n+ * The first field is exactly \\\"p\\\" or \\\"pt\\\" it may be of this type.\\n+ *\\n+ * Returns -1 if the field is not of this type.\\n+ *\\n+ * It pretty strictly checks the spec, with the two exceptions\\n+ * that a week field ('W') may coexist with other units, and that\\n+ * this function allows decimals in fields other than the least\\n+ * significant units.\\n+ */\\n+int\\n+DecodeISO8601Interval(char **field, int *ftype, int nf, int *dtype, struct tm * tm, fsec_t *fsec) \\n+{\\n+\\tchar\\t *cp;\\n+\\tint\\t\\t\\tfmask = 0,\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\ttmask;\\n+\\tint\\t\\t\\tval;\\n+\\tdouble\\t\\tfval;\\n+\\tint\\t\\t\\targ;\\n+\\tint\\t\\t\\tdatepart;\\n+\\n+ /*\\n+\\t * An ISO 8601 \\\"time-interval by duration only\\\" must start\\n+\\t * with a 'P'. If it contains a date-part, 'p' will be the\\n+\\t * only character in the field. If it contains no date part\\n+\\t * it will contain exactly to characters 'PT' indicating a\\n+\\t * time part.\\n+\\t * Anything else is illegal and will be treated like a \\n+\\t * traditional postgresql interval.\\n+\\t */\\n+ if (!(field[0][0] == 'p' &&\\n+ ((field[0][1] == 0) || (field[0][1] == 't' && field[0][2] == 0))))\\n+\\t{\\n+\\t return -1;\\n+\\t}\\n+\\n+\\n+ /*\\n+\\t * If the first field is exactly 1 character ('P'), it starts\\n+\\t * with date elements. Otherwise it's two characters ('PT');\\n+\\t * indicating it starts with a time part.\\n+\\t */\\n+\\tdatepart = (field[0][1] == 0);\\n+\\n+\\t/*\\n+\\t * Every value must have a unit, so we require an even\\n+\\t * number of value/unit pairs. Therefore we require an\\n+\\t * odd nubmer of fields, including the prefix 'P'.\\n+\\t */\\n+\\tif ((nf & 1) == 0)\\n+\\t\\treturn -1;\\n+\\n+\\t/*\\n+\\t * Process pairs of fields at a time.\\n+\\t */\\n+\\tfor (arg = 1 ; arg < nf ; arg+=2) \\n+\\t{\\n+\\t\\tchar * value = field[arg ];\\n+\\t\\tchar * units = field[arg+1];\\n+\\n+\\t\\t/*\\n+\\t\\t * The value part must be a number.\\n+\\t\\t */\\n+\\t\\tif (ftype[arg] != DTK_NUMBER) \\n+\\t\\t\\treturn -1;\\n+\\n+\\t\\t/*\\n+\\t\\t * extract the number, almost exactly like the non-ISO interval.\\n+\\t\\t */\\n+\\t\\tval = strtol(value, &cp, 10);\\n+\\n+\\t\\t/*\\n+\\t\\t * One difference from the normal postgresql interval below...\\n+\\t\\t * ISO 8601 states that \\\"Of these, the comma is the preferred \\n+\\t\\t * sign\\\" so I allow it here for locales that support it.\\n+\\t\\t * Note: Perhaps the old-style interval code below should\\n+\\t\\t * allow for this too, but I didn't want to risk backward\\n+\\t\\t * compatability.\\n+\\t\\t */\\n+\\t\\tif (*cp == '.' || *cp == ',') \\n+\\t\\t{\\n+\\t\\t\\tfval = strtod(cp, &cp);\\n+\\t\\t\\tif (*cp != '\\\\0')\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\treturn -1;\\n+\\n+\\t\\t\\tif (val < 0)\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\tfval = -(fval);\\n+\\t\\t}\\n+\\t\\telse if (*cp == '\\\\0')\\n+\\t\\t\\tfval = 0;\\n+\\t\\telse\\n+\\t\\t\\treturn -1;\\n+\\n+\\n+\\t\\tif (datepart)\\n+\\t\\t{\\n+\\t\\t\\t/*\\n+\\t\\t\\t * All the 8601 unit specifiers are 1 character, but may\\n+\\t\\t\\t * be followed by a 'T' character if transitioning between\\n+\\t\\t\\t * the date part and the time part. If it's not either\\n+\\t\\t\\t * one character or two characters with the second being 't'\\n+\\t\\t\\t * it's an error.\\n+\\t\\t\\t */\\n+\\t\\t\\tif (!(units[1] == 0 || (units[1] == 't' && units[2] == 0)))\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\treturn -1;\\n+\\n+\\t\\t\\tif (units[1] == 't')\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\tdatepart = 0;\\n+\\n+\\t\\t\\tswitch (units[0]) /* Y M D W */\\n+\\t\\t\\t{\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\tcase 'd':\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttm->tm_mday += val;\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tif (fval != 0)\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t adjust_fval(fval,tm,fsec, 86400);\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttmask = ((fmask & DTK_M(DAY)) ? 0 : DTK_M(DAY));\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tbreak;\\n+\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\tcase 'w':\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttm->tm_mday += val * 7;\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tif (fval != 0)\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t adjust_fval(fval,tm,fsec,7 * 86400);\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttmask = ((fmask & DTK_M(DAY)) ? 0 : DTK_M(DAY));\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tbreak;\\n+\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\tcase 'm':\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttm->tm_mon += val;\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tif (fval != 0)\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t adjust_fval(fval,tm,fsec,30 * 86400);\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttmask = DTK_M(MONTH);\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tbreak;\\n+\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\tcase 'y':\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t/*\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t * Why can fractional months produce seconds,\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t * but fractional years can't? Well the older\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t * interval code below has the same property\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t * so this one follows the other one too.\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t */\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttm->tm_year += val;\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tif (fval != 0)\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttm->tm_mon += (fval * 12);\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttmask = ((fmask & DTK_M(YEAR)) ? 0 : DTK_M(YEAR));\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tbreak;\\n+\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\tdefault:\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\t\\treturn -1; /* invald date unit prefix */\\n+\\t\\t\\t}\\n+\\t\\t}\\n+\\t\\telse\\n+\\t\\t{\\n+\\t\\t\\t/*\\n+\\t\\t\\t * ISO 8601 time part.\\n+\\t\\t\\t * In the time part, only one-character\\n+\\t\\t\\t * unit prefixes are allowed. If it's more\\n+\\t\\t\\t * than one character, it's not a valid ISO 8601\\n+\\t\\t\\t * time interval by duration.\\n+\\t\\t\\t */\\n+\\t\\t\\tif (units[1] != 0)\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\treturn -1;\\n+\\n+\\t\\t\\tswitch (units[0]) /* H M S */\\n+\\t\\t\\t{\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\tcase 's':\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttm->tm_sec += val;\\n+#ifdef HAVE_INT64_TIMESTAMP\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t*fsec += (fval * 1000000);\\n+#else\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t*fsec += fval;\\n+#endif\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttmask = DTK_M(SECOND);\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tbreak;\\n+\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\tcase 'm':\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttm->tm_min += val;\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tif (fval != 0)\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t adjust_fval(fval,tm,fsec,60);\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttmask = DTK_M(MINUTE);\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tbreak;\\n+\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\tcase 'h':\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttm->tm_hour += val;\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tif (fval != 0)\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t adjust_fval(fval,tm,fsec,3600);\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttmask = DTK_M(HOUR);\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tbreak;\\n+\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\tdefault:\\n+\\t\\t\\t\\t\\treturn -1; /* invald time unit prefix */\\n+\\t\\t\\t}\\n+\\t\\t}\\n+\\t\\tfmask |= tmask;\\n+\\t}\\n+\\n+\\tif (*fsec != 0)\\n+\\t{\\n+\\t\\tint\\t\\t\\tsec;\\n+\\n+#ifdef HAVE_INT64_TIMESTAMP\\n+\\t\\tsec = (*fsec / INT64CONST(1000000));\\n+\\t\\t*fsec -= (sec * INT64CONST(1000000));\\n+#else\\n+\\t\\tTMODULO(*fsec, sec, 1e0);\\n+#endif\\n+\\t\\ttm->tm_sec += sec;\\n+\\t}\\n+\\treturn (fmask != 0) ? 0 : -1;\\n+}\\n+\\n+\\n /* DecodeInterval()\\n * Interpret previously parsed fields for general time interval.\\n * Returns 0 if successful, DTERR code if bogus input detected.\\n *\\n * Allow \\\"date\\\" field DTK_DATE since this could be just\\n *\\tan unsigned floating point number. - thomas 1997-11-16\\n *\\n * Allow ISO-style time span, with implicit units on number of days\\n *\\tpreceding an hh:mm:ss field. - thomas 1998-04-30\\n+ * \\n+ * Allow ISO-8601 style \\\"Representation of time-interval by duration only\\\"\\n+ * of the format 'PnYnMnDTnHnMnS' and 'PnW' - ron 2003-08-30\\n */\\n+\\n int\\n DecodeInterval(char **field, int *ftype, int nf, int *dtype, struct tm * tm, fsec_t *fsec)\\n {\\n \\tint\\t\\t\\tis_before = FALSE;\\n \\tchar\\t *cp;\\n \\tint\\t\\t\\tfmask = 0,\\n \\t\\t\\t\\ttmask,\\n \\t\\t\\t\\ttype;\\n \\tint\\t\\t\\ti;\\n \\tint\\t\\t\\tdterr;\\n@@ -2906,20 +3148,37 @@\\n \\n \\ttype = IGNORE_DTF;\\n \\ttm->tm_year = 0;\\n \\ttm->tm_mon = 0;\\n \\ttm->tm_mday = 0;\\n \\ttm->tm_hour = 0;\\n \\ttm->tm_min = 0;\\n \\ttm->tm_sec = 0;\\n \\t*fsec = 0;\\n \\n+\\t/*\\n+\\t * Check if it's a ISO 8601 Section 5.5.4.2 \\\"Representation of\\n+ * time-interval by duration only.\\\" \\n+\\t * Basic extended format: PnYnMnDTnHnMnS\\n+\\t * PnW\\n+\\t * http://www.astroclark.freeserve.co.uk/iso8601/index.html\\n+\\t * ftp://ftp.qsl.net/pub/g1smd/154N362_.PDF\\n+\\t * Examples: P1D for 1 day\\n+\\t * PT1H for 1 hour\\n+\\t * P2Y6M7DT1H30M for 2 years, 6 months, 7 days 1 hour 30 min\\n+\\t *\\n+\\t * The first field is exactly \\\"p\\\" or \\\"pt\\\" it may be of this type.\\n+\\t */\\n+\\tif (DecodeISO8601Interval(field,ftype,nf,dtype,tm,fsec) == 0) {\\n+\\t return 0;\\n+ }\\n+\\n \\t/* read through list backwards to pick up units before values */\\n \\tfor (i = nf - 1; i >= 0; i--)\\n \\t{\\n \\t\\tswitch (ftype[i])\\n \\t\\t{\\n \\t\\t\\tcase DTK_TIME:\\n \\t\\t\\t\\tdterr = DecodeTime(field[i], fmask, &tmask, tm, fsec);\\n \\t\\t\\t\\tif (dterr)\\n \\t\\t\\t\\t\\treturn dterr;\\n \\t\\t\\t\\ttype = DTK_DAY;\\n@@ -2983,20 +3242,21 @@\\n \\t\\t\\t\\t}\\n \\t\\t\\t\\t/* DROP THROUGH */\\n \\n \\t\\t\\tcase DTK_DATE:\\n \\t\\t\\tcase DTK_NUMBER:\\n \\t\\t\\t\\tval = strtol(field[i], &cp, 10);\\n \\n \\t\\t\\t\\tif (type == IGNORE_DTF)\\n \\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttype = DTK_SECOND;\\n \\n+\\t\\t\\t\\t/* should this allow ',' for locales that use it ? */\\n \\t\\t\\t\\tif (*cp == '.')\\n \\t\\t\\t\\t{\\n \\t\\t\\t\\t\\tfval = strtod(cp, &cp);\\n \\t\\t\\t\\t\\tif (*cp != '\\\\0')\\n \\t\\t\\t\\t\\t\\treturn DTERR_BAD_FORMAT;\\n \\n \\t\\t\\t\\t\\tif (val < 0)\\n \\t\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tfval = -(fval);\\n \\t\\t\\t\\t}\\n \\t\\t\\t\\telse if (*cp == '\\\\0')\\n\\n===================================================================\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sun, 7 Sep 2003 21:50:49 -0700\",\n \"msg_from\": \"\\\"Ron Mayer\\\" <ron@intervideo.com>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"ISO 8601 \\\"Time Intervals\\\" of the \\\"format with time-unit deignators\\\"\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\\"Ron Mayer\\\" <ron@intervideo.com> writes:\\n> Compared to the ISO 8601 time interval specification, the\\n> postgresql interval syntax is quite verbose. For example:\\n\\n> Postgresql interval: ISO8601 Interval\\n> ---------------------------------------------------\\n> '1 year 6 months' 'P1Y6M'\\n> '3 hours 25 minutes 42 seconds' 'PT3H25M42S'\\n\\nEr, don't we support that already? I know I saw code to support\\nsomething much like that syntax last time I looked into the datetime\\nroutines.\\n\\n\\t\\t\\tregards, tom lane\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 08 Sep 2003 01:47:17 -0400\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: ISO 8601 \\\"Time Intervals\\\" of the \\\"format with time-unit\\n\\tdeignators\\\"\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\nIs there a way of producing as well as reading this format? Or did I miss\\nsomething?\\n\\ncheers\\n\\nandrew\\n\\nRon Mayer said:\\n> Short summary:\\n>\\n> This patch allows ISO 8601 \\\"time intervals\\\" using the \\\"format\\n> with time-unit designators\\\" to specify postgresql \\\"intervals\\\".\\n>\\n> Below I have (A) What these time intervals are, (B) What I\\n> modified to support them, (C) Issues with intervals I want\\n> to bring up, and (D) a patch supporting them.\\n>\\n> It's helpful to me. Any feedback is appreciated. If you\\n> did want to consider including it, let me know what to clean\\n> up. If not, I thought I'd just put it here if anyone else finds it\\n> useful too.\\n>\\n> Thanks for your time,\\n>\\n> Ron Mayer\\n>\\n> Longer:\\n>\\n> (A) What these intervals are.\\n>\\n> ISO 8601, the standard from which PostgreSQL gets some of it's time\\n> syntax, also has a specification for \\\"time-intervals\\\".\\n>\\n> In particular, section 5.5.4.2 has a \\\"Representation of\\n> time-interval by duration only\\\" which I believe maps\\n> nicely to ISO intervals.\\n>\\n> Compared to the ISO 8601 time interval specification, the\\n> postgresql interval syntax is quite verbose. For example:\\n>\\n> Postgresql interval: ISO8601 Interval\\n> ---------------------------------------------------\\n> '1 year 6 months' 'P1Y6M'\\n> '3 hours 25 minutes 42 seconds' 'PT3H25M42S'\\n>\\n> Yeah, it's uglier, but it sure is short which can make\\n> for quicker typing and shorter scripts, and if for some\\n> strange reason you had an application using this format\\n> it's nice not to have to translate.\\n>\\n> The syntax is as follows:\\n> Basic extended format: PnYnMnDTnHnMnS\\n> PnW\\n>\\n> Where everything before the \\\"T\\\" is a date-part and everything\\n> after is a time-part. W is for weeks.\\n> In the date-part, Y=Year, M=Month, D=Day\\n> In the time-part, H=Hour, M=Minute, S=Second\\n>\\n> Much more info can be found from the draft standard\\n> ftp://ftp.qsl.net/pub/g1smd/154N362_.PDF\\n> The final standard's only available for $$$ so I didn't\\n> look at it. Some other sites imply that this part didn't\\n> change from the last draft to the standard.\\n>\\n>\\n> (B) This change was made by adding two functions to \\\"datetime.c\\\"\\n> next to where DecodeInterval parses the normal interval syntax.\\n>\\n> A total of 313 lines were added, including comments and sgml docs.\\n> Of these only 136 are actual code, the rest, comments, whitespace,\\n> etc.\\n>\\n>\\n> One new function \\\"DecodeISO8601Interval\\\" follows the style of\\n> \\\"DecodeInterval\\\" below it, and trys to strictly follow the ISO\\n> syntax. If it doesn't match, it'll return -1 and the old syntax\\n> will be checked as before.\\n>\\n> The first test (first character of the first field must be 'P', and\\n> second character must be 'T' or '\\\\0') should be fast so I don't\\n> think this will impact performance of existing code.\\n>\\n>\\n> The second function (\\\"adjust_fval\\\") is just a small helper-function\\n> to remove some of the cut&paste style that DecodeInterval used.\\n>\\n> It seems to work.\\n>\\n=======================================================================\\n> betadb=# select 'P1M15DT12H30M7S'::interval;\\n> interval\\n> ------------------------\\n> 1 mon 15 days 12:30:07\\n> (1 row)\\n>\\n> betadb=# select '1 month 15 days 12 hours 30 minutes 7\\n> seconds'::interval;\\n> \\t interval\\n> ------------------------\\n> 1 mon 15 days 12:30:07\\n> (1 row)\\n> =====================================================================\\n>\\n>\\n>\\n> (C) Open issues with intervals, and questions I'd like to ask.\\n>\\n> 1. DecodeInterval seems to have a hardcoded '.' for specifying\\n> fractional times. ISO 8601 states that both '.' and ',' are ok,\\n> but \\\"of these, the comma is the preferred sign\\\".\\n>\\n> In DecodeISO8601Interval I loosened the test to allow\\n> both but left it as it was in DecodeInterval. Should\\n> both be changed to make them more consistant?\\n>\\n> 2. In \\\"DecodeInterval\\\", fractional weeks and fractional months\\n> can produce seconds; but fractional years can not (rounded to\\n> months). I didn't understand the reasoning for this, so I left\\n> it the same, and followed the same convention for\\n> ISO intervals. Should I change this?\\n>\\n> 3. I could save a bunch of copy-paste-lines-of-code from the\\n> pre-existing DecodeInterval by calling the adjust_fval helper\\n> function. The tradeoff is a few extra function-calls when\\n> decoding an interval. However I didn't want to risk changes to\\n> the existing part unless you guys encourage me to do so.\\n>\\n>\\n> (D) The patch.\\n>\\n>\\n[snip]\\n\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 8 Sep 2003 02:32:17 -0400 (EDT)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"<andrew@dunslane.net>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: ISO 8601 'Time Intervals' of the 'format with time-unit\\n\\tdeignators'\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\nTom wrote:\\n> \\\"Ron Mayer\\\" <ron@intervideo.com> writes:\\n> > Compared to the ISO 8601 time interval specification, the\\n> > postgresql interval syntax is quite verbose. For example:\\n> \\n> > Postgresql interval: ISO8601 Interval\\n> > ---------------------------------------------------\\n> > '1 year 6 months' 'P1Y6M'\\n> > '3 hours 25 minutes 42 seconds' 'PT3H25M42S'\\n> \\n> Er, don't we support that already? I know I saw code to support\\n> something much like that syntax last time I looked into the datetime\\n> routines.\\n> \\n\\nNope.\\n\\nPostgresql supports a rather bizzare shorthand that has a similar\\nsyntax, but AFAICT, doesn't match ISO 8601 in any way that makes \\nit practical.\\n\\n\\nA disclaimer, I have the \\\"Final Draft\\\" (ISO/TC 154N 362 \\nof 2000-12-19) of the spec; but have not seen the official,\\nexpensive, version. \\nftp://ftp.qsl.net/pub/g1smd/154N362_.PDF\\n\\n\\nFor example, if I read it right, I have differences\\nlike this:\\n\\n Interval ISO Postgres\\n 8601 shorthand\\n -----------------------------------------------------\\n '1 year 1 minute' 'P1YT1M' '1Y1M'\\n '1 year 1 month' 'P1Y1M' N/A\\n\\nThe best part about the postgresql syntax is that\\nthey omit the required 'P', so it's easy to differentiate\\nbetween the two. :-)\\n\\n\\nPerhaps one could argue that the postgres shorthand should \\nfollow the ISO conventions, but I'd not want to break backward\\ncompatability, incase someone out there is using '1H30M' and\\nexpecting minutes instead of months. If we didn't want to\\nsupport two syntaxes, I wouldn't mind eventually depricating\\nthe less-standard one.\\n\\n Ron\\n\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 8 Sep 2003 11:59:50 -0700\",\n \"msg_from\": \"\\\"Ron Mayer\\\" <ron@intervideo.com>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: ISO 8601 \\\"Time Intervals\\\" of the \\\"format with time-unit\\n\\tdeignators\\\"\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"andrew@dunslane.net wrote:\\n> \\n> Is there a way of producing as well as reading this format? Or did I miss\\n> something?\\n\\nNot yet, but I'd be happy to add it. \\n\\nMy immediate problem was having some 'P1Y6M' intervals to load. \\nI posted this much largely because it was useful to me so might \\nhelp others, and to see if it was of interest to others and \\nget feedback on what else to change.\\n\\nI'd be happy to make it produce the output, and have some style\\nquestions for doing so.\\n\\nI'd hate to trigger this output on the already-existing 'datestyle' \\nof 'ISO', since that would break backward compatability.\\nI do notice that 8601 has both \\\"basic\\\" and \\\"extended\\\" formats.\\nThe \\\"basic format\\\" is more terse ('19980115' instead of '1998-01-15').\\n\\nWould it be useful if I added a 'datestyle' of 'ISO basic' which\\nwould produce the most terse formats ('19980115' for dates, \\nand 'P1Y1M' for intervals)?\\n\\n Ron\\n\\nPS: What's the best inexpenive way for me to know if this changed \\nat all between the final draft and the published standard? \\n\\n> Ron Mayer said:\\n> > This patch allows ISO 8601 \\\"time intervals\\\" using the \\\"format\\n> > with time-unit designators\\\" to specify postgresql \\\"intervals\\\".\\n> >...\\n> > Much more info can be found from the draft standard\\n> > ftp://ftp.qsl.net/pub/g1smd/154N362_.PDF\\n> > The final standard's only available for $$$ so I didn't\\n> > look at it.\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 8 Sep 2003 12:16:50 -0700\",\n \"msg_from\": \"\\\"Ron Mayer\\\" <ron@intervideo.com>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: ISO 8601 'Time Intervals' of the 'format with time-unit\\n\\tdeignators'\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\\"Ron Mayer\\\" <ron@intervideo.com> writes:\\n> Tom wrote:\\n>> Er, don't we support that already?\\n\\n> Postgresql supports a rather bizzare shorthand that has a similar\\n> syntax, but AFAICT, doesn't match ISO 8601 in any way that makes \\n> it practical.\\n\\nWell, it's *supposed* to match ISO, AFAICT (the comments in the code\\ntalk about \\\"ISO dates\\\"). Unless ISO has put out multiple specs that\\ncover this?\\n\\n> Perhaps one could argue that the postgres shorthand should \\n> follow the ISO conventions, but I'd not want to break backward\\n> compatability, incase someone out there is using '1H30M' and\\n> expecting minutes instead of months.\\n\\nI doubt anyone is using it, because it's completely undocumented.\\nIf we're going to support the real ISO spec, I'd suggest ripping\\nout any not-quite-there variant. (Especially so noting that your\\ncode seems a lot cleaner than the ptype stuff.)\\n\\nThe datetime code is kind of a mess right now, because Thomas Lockhart\\nwalked away from the project while only partway through some significant\\nadditions. He left some incomplete features and quite a number of bugs\\nin new-and-untested code. We've been gradually cleaning up the problems,\\nbut if if you find something that doesn't seem to make sense, it's\\nlikely a bug rather than anything we want to preserve. In particular,\\ngiven the knowledge that it doesn't meet the ISO spec, I'd judge that\\nthe existing code for the ISO shorthand was a work-in-progress.\\n\\n\\t\\t\\tregards, tom lane\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 08 Sep 2003 15:59:20 -0400\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: ISO 8601 \\\"Time Intervals\\\" of the \\\"format with time-unit\\n\\tdeignators\\\"\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\\"Ron Mayer\\\" <ron@intervideo.com> writes:\\n> Would it be useful if I added a 'datestyle' of 'ISO basic' which\\n> would produce the most terse formats ('19980115' for dates, \\n> and 'P1Y1M' for intervals)?\\n\\nI don't really care for using that name for it --- for one thing, you\\ncouldn't do\\n\\tset datestyle to iso basic;\\nbecause of syntax limitations. A one-word name is a much better idea.\\n\\nPerhaps call it \\\"compact\\\" or \\\"terse\\\" datestyle?\\n\\n\\n> PS: What's the best inexpenive way for me to know if this changed \\n> at all between the final draft and the published standard? \\n\\nANSI sells PDFs of ISO specs at their online store\\nhttp://webstore.ansi.org/ansidocstore/default.asp\\nalthough it looks like they want $81 for 8601, which is not my idea of\\n\\\"inexpensive\\\".\\n\\nUsually ISO final drafts differ very little from the published specs;\\nI think you could just work from the draft and no one would complain.\\n\\n\\t\\t\\tregards, tom lane\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 08 Sep 2003 16:17:19 -0400\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: ISO 8601 'Time Intervals' of the 'format with time-unit\\n\\tdeignators'\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Tom Lane wrote:\\n> > Perhaps one could argue that the postgres shorthand should \\n> > follow the ISO conventions, but I'd not want to break backward\\n> > compatability, incase someone out there is using '1H30M' and\\n> > expecting minutes instead of months.\\n> \\n> I doubt anyone is using it, because it's completely undocumented.\\n> If we're going to support the real ISO spec, I'd suggest ripping\\n> out any not-quite-there variant. (Especially so noting that your\\n> code seems a lot cleaner than the ptype stuff.)\\n\\nAgreed. Let me put your code in the queue for 7.5.\\n\\n-- \\n Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us\\n pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001\\n + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road\\n + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 8 Sep 2003 16:27:16 -0400 (EDT)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: ISO 8601 \\\"Time Intervals\\\" of the \\\"format with time-unit\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\nThis has been saved for the 7.5 release:\\n\\n\\thttp:/momjian.postgresql.org/cgi-bin/pgpatches2\\n\\nFeel free to submit an updated patch that rips out the old syntax, as\\ndiscussed, or replace this patch with a more comprehensive one.\\n\\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------\\n\\nRon Mayer wrote:\\n> Short summary:\\n> \\n> This patch allows ISO 8601 \\\"time intervals\\\" using the \\\"format \\n> with time-unit designators\\\" to specify postgresql \\\"intervals\\\".\\n> \\n> Below I have (A) What these time intervals are, (B) What I\\n> modified to support them, (C) Issues with intervals I want\\n> to bring up, and (D) a patch supporting them.\\n> \\n> It's helpful to me. Any feedback is appreciated. If you \\n> did want to consider including it, let me know what to clean \\n> up. If not, I thought I'd just put it here if anyone else finds\\n> it useful too.\\n> \\n> Thanks for your time,\\n> \\n> Ron Mayer\\n> \\n> Longer:\\n> \\n> (A) What these intervals are.\\n> \\n> ISO 8601, the standard from which PostgreSQL gets some of it's \\n> time syntax, also has a specification for \\\"time-intervals\\\".\\n> \\n> In particular, section 5.5.4.2 has a \\\"Representation of\\n> time-interval by duration only\\\" which I believe maps\\n> nicely to ISO intervals.\\n> \\n> Compared to the ISO 8601 time interval specification, the\\n> postgresql interval syntax is quite verbose. For example:\\n> \\n> Postgresql interval: ISO8601 Interval\\n> ---------------------------------------------------\\n> '1 year 6 months' 'P1Y6M'\\n> '3 hours 25 minutes 42 seconds' 'PT3H25M42S'\\n> \\n> Yeah, it's uglier, but it sure is short which can make\\n> for quicker typing and shorter scripts, and if for some\\n> strange reason you had an application using this format\\n> it's nice not to have to translate.\\n> \\n> The syntax is as follows:\\n> Basic extended format: PnYnMnDTnHnMnS\\n> PnW\\n> \\n> Where everything before the \\\"T\\\" is a date-part and everything\\n> after is a time-part. W is for weeks.\\n> In the date-part, Y=Year, M=Month, D=Day\\n> In the time-part, H=Hour, M=Minute, S=Second\\n> \\n> Much more info can be found from the draft standard\\n> ftp://ftp.qsl.net/pub/g1smd/154N362_.PDF\\n> The final standard's only available for $$$ so I didn't\\n> look at it. Some other sites imply that this part didn't\\n> change from the last draft to the standard.\\n> \\n> \\n> (B) This change was made by adding two functions to \\\"datetime.c\\\"\\n> next to where DecodeInterval parses the normal interval syntax.\\n> \\n> A total of 313 lines were added, including comments and sgml docs.\\n> Of these only 136 are actual code, the rest, comments, whitespace, etc.\\n> \\n> \\n> One new function \\\"DecodeISO8601Interval\\\" follows the style of\\n> \\\"DecodeInterval\\\" below it, and trys to strictly follow the ISO\\n> syntax. If it doesn't match, it'll return -1 and the old syntax\\n> will be checked as before.\\n> \\n> The first test (first character of the first field must be 'P', \\n> and second character must be 'T' or '\\\\0') should be fast so I don't\\n> think this will impact performance of existing code.\\n> \\n> \\n> The second function (\\\"adjust_fval\\\") is just a small helper-function\\n> to remove some of the cut&paste style that DecodeInterval used.\\n> \\n> It seems to work.\\n> =======================================================================\\n> betadb=# select 'P1M15DT12H30M7S'::interval;\\n> interval \\n> ------------------------\\n> 1 mon 15 days 12:30:07\\n> (1 row)\\n> \\n> betadb=# select '1 month 15 days 12 hours 30 minutes 7 seconds'::interval;\\n> \\t interval \\n> ------------------------\\n> 1 mon 15 days 12:30:07\\n> (1 row)\\n> =====================================================================\\n> \\n> \\n> \\n> (C) Open issues with intervals, and questions I'd like to ask.\\n> \\n> 1. DecodeInterval seems to have a hardcoded '.' for specifying\\n> fractional times. ISO 8601 states that both '.' and ',' are\\n> ok, but \\\"of these, the comma is the preferred sign\\\".\\n> \\n> In DecodeISO8601Interval I loosened the test to allow\\n> both but left it as it was in DecodeInterval. Should\\n> both be changed to make them more consistant?\\n> \\n> 2. In \\\"DecodeInterval\\\", fractional weeks and fractional months\\n> can produce seconds; but fractional years can not (rounded\\n> to months). I didn't understand the reasoning for this, so\\n> I left it the same, and followed the same convention for\\n> ISO intervals. Should I change this?\\n> \\n> 3. I could save a bunch of copy-paste-lines-of-code from the\\n> pre-existing DecodeInterval by calling the adjust_fval helper\\n> function. The tradeoff is a few extra function-calls when\\n> decoding an interval. However I didn't want to risk changes\\n> to the existing part unless you guys encourage me to do so.\\n> \\n> \\n> (D) The patch.\\n> \\n> \\n> Index: doc/src/sgml/datatype.sgml\\n> ===================================================================\\n> RCS file: /projects/cvsroot/pgsql-server/doc/src/sgml/datatype.sgml,v\\n> retrieving revision 1.123\\n> diff -u -1 -0 -r1.123 datatype.sgml\\n> --- doc/src/sgml/datatype.sgml\\t31 Aug 2003 17:32:18 -0000\\t1.123\\n> +++ doc/src/sgml/datatype.sgml\\t8 Sep 2003 04:04:58 -0000\\n> @@ -1735,20 +1735,71 @@\\n> Quantities of days, hours, minutes, and seconds can be specified without\\n> explicit unit markings. For example, <literal>'1 12:59:10'</> is read\\n> the same as <literal>'1 day 12 hours 59 min 10 sec'</>.\\n> </para>\\n> \\n> <para>\\n> The optional precision\\n> <replaceable>p</replaceable> should be between 0 and 6, and\\n> defaults to the precision of the input literal.\\n> </para>\\n> +\\n> +\\n> + <para>\\n> + Alternatively, <type>interval</type> values can be written as \\n> + ISO 8601 time intervals, using the \\\"Format with time-unit designators\\\".\\n> + This format always starts with the character <literal>'P'</>, followed \\n> + by a string of values followed by single character time-unit designators.\\n> + A <literal>'T'</> separates the date and time parts of the interval.\\n> + </para>\\n> +\\n> + <para>\\n> + Format: PnYnMnDTnHnMnS\\n> + </para>\\n> + <para>\\n> + In this format, <literal>'n'</> gets replaced by a number, and \\n> + <literal>Y</> represents years, \\n> + <literal>M</> (in the date part) months,\\n> + <literal>D</> months,\\n> + <literal>H</> hours,\\n> + <literal>M</> (in the time part) minutes,\\n> + and <literal>S</> seconds.\\n> + </para>\\n> + \\n> +\\n> + <table id=\\\"interval-example-table\\\">\\n> +\\t <title>Interval Example</title>\\n> +\\t <tgroup cols=\\\"2\\\">\\n> +\\t\\t<thead>\\n> +\\t\\t <row>\\n> +\\t\\t <entry>Traditional</entry>\\n> +\\t\\t <entry>ISO-8601 time-interval</entry>\\n> +\\t\\t </row>\\n> +\\t\\t</thead>\\n> +\\t\\t<tbody>\\n> +\\t\\t <row>\\n> +\\t\\t <entry>1 month</entry>\\n> +\\t\\t <entry>P1M</entry>\\n> +\\t\\t </row>\\n> +\\t\\t <row>\\n> +\\t\\t <entry>1 hour 30 minutes</entry>\\n> +\\t\\t <entry>PT1H30M</entry>\\n> +\\t\\t </row>\\n> +\\t\\t <row>\\n> +\\t\\t <entry>2 years 10 months 15 days 10 hours 30 minutes 20 seconds</entry>\\n> +\\t\\t <entry>P2Y10M15DT10H30M20S</entry>\\n> +\\t\\t </row>\\n> +\\t\\t</tbody>\\n> +\\t </thead>\\n> +\\t </table>\\n> +\\t \\n> + </para>\\n> </sect3>\\n> \\n> <sect3>\\n> <title>Special Values</title>\\n> \\n> <indexterm>\\n> <primary>time</primary>\\n> <secondary>constants</secondary>\\n> </indexterm>\\n> \\n> Index: src/backend/utils/adt/datetime.c\\n> ===================================================================\\n> RCS file: /projects/cvsroot/pgsql-server/src/backend/utils/adt/datetime.c,v\\n> retrieving revision 1.116\\n> diff -u -1 -0 -r1.116 datetime.c\\n> --- src/backend/utils/adt/datetime.c\\t27 Aug 2003 23:29:28 -0000\\t1.116\\n> +++ src/backend/utils/adt/datetime.c\\t8 Sep 2003 04:04:59 -0000\\n> @@ -30,20 +30,21 @@\\n> \\t\\t\\t struct tm * tm, fsec_t *fsec, int *is2digits);\\n> static int DecodeNumberField(int len, char *str,\\n> \\t\\t\\t\\t int fmask, int *tmask,\\n> \\t\\t\\t\\t struct tm * tm, fsec_t *fsec, int *is2digits);\\n> static int DecodeTime(char *str, int fmask, int *tmask,\\n> \\t\\t struct tm * tm, fsec_t *fsec);\\n> static int\\tDecodeTimezone(char *str, int *tzp);\\n> static datetkn *datebsearch(char *key, datetkn *base, unsigned int nel);\\n> static int\\tDecodeDate(char *str, int fmask, int *tmask, struct tm * tm);\\n> static void TrimTrailingZeros(char *str);\\n> +static int DecodeISO8601Interval(char **field, int *ftype, int nf, int *dtype, struct tm * tm, fsec_t *fsec);\\n> \\n> \\n> int\\t\\t\\tday_tab[2][13] = {\\n> \\t{31, 28, 31, 30, 31, 30, 31, 31, 30, 31, 30, 31, 0},\\n> {31, 29, 31, 30, 31, 30, 31, 31, 30, 31, 30, 31, 0}};\\n> \\n> char\\t *months[] = {\\\"Jan\\\", \\\"Feb\\\", \\\"Mar\\\", \\\"Apr\\\", \\\"May\\\", \\\"Jun\\\",\\n> \\\"Jul\\\", \\\"Aug\\\", \\\"Sep\\\", \\\"Oct\\\", \\\"Nov\\\", \\\"Dec\\\", NULL};\\n> \\n> char\\t *days[] = {\\\"Sunday\\\", \\\"Monday\\\", \\\"Tuesday\\\", \\\"Wednesday\\\",\\n> @@ -2872,30 +2873,271 @@\\n> \\t\\t\\tdefault:\\n> \\t\\t\\t\\t*val = tp->value;\\n> \\t\\t\\t\\tbreak;\\n> \\t\\t}\\n> \\t}\\n> \\n> \\treturn type;\\n> }\\n> \\n> \\n> +void adjust_fval(double fval,struct tm * tm, fsec_t *fsec, int scale);\\n> +{\\n> +\\tint\\tsec;\\n> +\\tfval\\t *= scale;\\n> +\\tsec\\t\\t = fval;\\n> +\\ttm->tm_sec += sec;\\n> +#ifdef HAVE_INT64_TIMESTAMP\\n> +\\t*fsec\\t += ((fval - sec) * 1000000);\\n> +#else\\n> +\\t*fsec\\t += (fval - sec);\\n> +#endif\\n> +}\\n> +\\n> +\\n> +/* DecodeISO8601Interval()\\n> + *\\n> + * Check if it's a ISO 8601 Section 5.5.4.2 \\\"Representation of\\n> + * time-interval by duration only.\\\" \\n> + * Basic extended format: PnYnMnDTnHnMnS\\n> + * PnW\\n> + * For more info.\\n> + * http://www.astroclark.freeserve.co.uk/iso8601/index.html\\n> + * ftp://ftp.qsl.net/pub/g1smd/154N362_.PDF\\n> + *\\n> + * Examples: P1D for 1 day\\n> + * PT1H for 1 hour\\n> + * P2Y6M7DT1H30M for 2 years, 6 months, 7 days 1 hour 30 min\\n> + *\\n> + * The first field is exactly \\\"p\\\" or \\\"pt\\\" it may be of this type.\\n> + *\\n> + * Returns -1 if the field is not of this type.\\n> + *\\n> + * It pretty strictly checks the spec, with the two exceptions\\n> + * that a week field ('W') may coexist with other units, and that\\n> + * this function allows decimals in fields other than the least\\n> + * significant units.\\n> + */\\n> +int\\n> +DecodeISO8601Interval(char **field, int *ftype, int nf, int *dtype, struct tm * tm, fsec_t *fsec) \\n> +{\\n> +\\tchar\\t *cp;\\n> +\\tint\\t\\t\\tfmask = 0,\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\ttmask;\\n> +\\tint\\t\\t\\tval;\\n> +\\tdouble\\t\\tfval;\\n> +\\tint\\t\\t\\targ;\\n> +\\tint\\t\\t\\tdatepart;\\n> +\\n> + /*\\n> +\\t * An ISO 8601 \\\"time-interval by duration only\\\" must start\\n> +\\t * with a 'P'. If it contains a date-part, 'p' will be the\\n> +\\t * only character in the field. If it contains no date part\\n> +\\t * it will contain exactly to characters 'PT' indicating a\\n> +\\t * time part.\\n> +\\t * Anything else is illegal and will be treated like a \\n> +\\t * traditional postgresql interval.\\n> +\\t */\\n> + if (!(field[0][0] == 'p' &&\\n> + ((field[0][1] == 0) || (field[0][1] == 't' && field[0][2] == 0))))\\n> +\\t{\\n> +\\t return -1;\\n> +\\t}\\n> +\\n> +\\n> + /*\\n> +\\t * If the first field is exactly 1 character ('P'), it starts\\n> +\\t * with date elements. Otherwise it's two characters ('PT');\\n> +\\t * indicating it starts with a time part.\\n> +\\t */\\n> +\\tdatepart = (field[0][1] == 0);\\n> +\\n> +\\t/*\\n> +\\t * Every value must have a unit, so we require an even\\n> +\\t * number of value/unit pairs. Therefore we require an\\n> +\\t * odd nubmer of fields, including the prefix 'P'.\\n> +\\t */\\n> +\\tif ((nf & 1) == 0)\\n> +\\t\\treturn -1;\\n> +\\n> +\\t/*\\n> +\\t * Process pairs of fields at a time.\\n> +\\t */\\n> +\\tfor (arg = 1 ; arg < nf ; arg+=2) \\n> +\\t{\\n> +\\t\\tchar * value = field[arg ];\\n> +\\t\\tchar * units = field[arg+1];\\n> +\\n> +\\t\\t/*\\n> +\\t\\t * The value part must be a number.\\n> +\\t\\t */\\n> +\\t\\tif (ftype[arg] != DTK_NUMBER) \\n> +\\t\\t\\treturn -1;\\n> +\\n> +\\t\\t/*\\n> +\\t\\t * extract the number, almost exactly like the non-ISO interval.\\n> +\\t\\t */\\n> +\\t\\tval = strtol(value, &cp, 10);\\n> +\\n> +\\t\\t/*\\n> +\\t\\t * One difference from the normal postgresql interval below...\\n> +\\t\\t * ISO 8601 states that \\\"Of these, the comma is the preferred \\n> +\\t\\t * sign\\\" so I allow it here for locales that support it.\\n> +\\t\\t * Note: Perhaps the old-style interval code below should\\n> +\\t\\t * allow for this too, but I didn't want to risk backward\\n> +\\t\\t * compatability.\\n> +\\t\\t */\\n> +\\t\\tif (*cp == '.' || *cp == ',') \\n> +\\t\\t{\\n> +\\t\\t\\tfval = strtod(cp, &cp);\\n> +\\t\\t\\tif (*cp != '\\\\0')\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\treturn -1;\\n> +\\n> +\\t\\t\\tif (val < 0)\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\tfval = -(fval);\\n> +\\t\\t}\\n> +\\t\\telse if (*cp == '\\\\0')\\n> +\\t\\t\\tfval = 0;\\n> +\\t\\telse\\n> +\\t\\t\\treturn -1;\\n> +\\n> +\\n> +\\t\\tif (datepart)\\n> +\\t\\t{\\n> +\\t\\t\\t/*\\n> +\\t\\t\\t * All the 8601 unit specifiers are 1 character, but may\\n> +\\t\\t\\t * be followed by a 'T' character if transitioning between\\n> +\\t\\t\\t * the date part and the time part. If it's not either\\n> +\\t\\t\\t * one character or two characters with the second being 't'\\n> +\\t\\t\\t * it's an error.\\n> +\\t\\t\\t */\\n> +\\t\\t\\tif (!(units[1] == 0 || (units[1] == 't' && units[2] == 0)))\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\treturn -1;\\n> +\\n> +\\t\\t\\tif (units[1] == 't')\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\tdatepart = 0;\\n> +\\n> +\\t\\t\\tswitch (units[0]) /* Y M D W */\\n> +\\t\\t\\t{\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\tcase 'd':\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttm->tm_mday += val;\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tif (fval != 0)\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t adjust_fval(fval,tm,fsec, 86400);\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttmask = ((fmask & DTK_M(DAY)) ? 0 : DTK_M(DAY));\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tbreak;\\n> +\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\tcase 'w':\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttm->tm_mday += val * 7;\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tif (fval != 0)\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t adjust_fval(fval,tm,fsec,7 * 86400);\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttmask = ((fmask & DTK_M(DAY)) ? 0 : DTK_M(DAY));\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tbreak;\\n> +\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\tcase 'm':\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttm->tm_mon += val;\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tif (fval != 0)\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t adjust_fval(fval,tm,fsec,30 * 86400);\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttmask = DTK_M(MONTH);\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tbreak;\\n> +\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\tcase 'y':\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t/*\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t * Why can fractional months produce seconds,\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t * but fractional years can't? Well the older\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t * interval code below has the same property\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t * so this one follows the other one too.\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t */\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttm->tm_year += val;\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tif (fval != 0)\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttm->tm_mon += (fval * 12);\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttmask = ((fmask & DTK_M(YEAR)) ? 0 : DTK_M(YEAR));\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tbreak;\\n> +\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\tdefault:\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\treturn -1; /* invald date unit prefix */\\n> +\\t\\t\\t}\\n> +\\t\\t}\\n> +\\t\\telse\\n> +\\t\\t{\\n> +\\t\\t\\t/*\\n> +\\t\\t\\t * ISO 8601 time part.\\n> +\\t\\t\\t * In the time part, only one-character\\n> +\\t\\t\\t * unit prefixes are allowed. If it's more\\n> +\\t\\t\\t * than one character, it's not a valid ISO 8601\\n> +\\t\\t\\t * time interval by duration.\\n> +\\t\\t\\t */\\n> +\\t\\t\\tif (units[1] != 0)\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\treturn -1;\\n> +\\n> +\\t\\t\\tswitch (units[0]) /* H M S */\\n> +\\t\\t\\t{\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\tcase 's':\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttm->tm_sec += val;\\n> +#ifdef HAVE_INT64_TIMESTAMP\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t*fsec += (fval * 1000000);\\n> +#else\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t*fsec += fval;\\n> +#endif\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttmask = DTK_M(SECOND);\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tbreak;\\n> +\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\tcase 'm':\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttm->tm_min += val;\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tif (fval != 0)\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t adjust_fval(fval,tm,fsec,60);\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttmask = DTK_M(MINUTE);\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tbreak;\\n> +\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\tcase 'h':\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttm->tm_hour += val;\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tif (fval != 0)\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t adjust_fval(fval,tm,fsec,3600);\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttmask = DTK_M(HOUR);\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tbreak;\\n> +\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\tdefault:\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\treturn -1; /* invald time unit prefix */\\n> +\\t\\t\\t}\\n> +\\t\\t}\\n> +\\t\\tfmask |= tmask;\\n> +\\t}\\n> +\\n> +\\tif (*fsec != 0)\\n> +\\t{\\n> +\\t\\tint\\t\\t\\tsec;\\n> +\\n> +#ifdef HAVE_INT64_TIMESTAMP\\n> +\\t\\tsec = (*fsec / INT64CONST(1000000));\\n> +\\t\\t*fsec -= (sec * INT64CONST(1000000));\\n> +#else\\n> +\\t\\tTMODULO(*fsec, sec, 1e0);\\n> +#endif\\n> +\\t\\ttm->tm_sec += sec;\\n> +\\t}\\n> +\\treturn (fmask != 0) ? 0 : -1;\\n> +}\\n> +\\n> +\\n> /* DecodeInterval()\\n> * Interpret previously parsed fields for general time interval.\\n> * Returns 0 if successful, DTERR code if bogus input detected.\\n> *\\n> * Allow \\\"date\\\" field DTK_DATE since this could be just\\n> *\\tan unsigned floating point number. - thomas 1997-11-16\\n> *\\n> * Allow ISO-style time span, with implicit units on number of days\\n> *\\tpreceding an hh:mm:ss field. - thomas 1998-04-30\\n> + * \\n> + * Allow ISO-8601 style \\\"Representation of time-interval by duration only\\\"\\n> + * of the format 'PnYnMnDTnHnMnS' and 'PnW' - ron 2003-08-30\\n> */\\n> +\\n> int\\n> DecodeInterval(char **field, int *ftype, int nf, int *dtype, struct tm * tm, fsec_t *fsec)\\n> {\\n> \\tint\\t\\t\\tis_before = FALSE;\\n> \\tchar\\t *cp;\\n> \\tint\\t\\t\\tfmask = 0,\\n> \\t\\t\\t\\ttmask,\\n> \\t\\t\\t\\ttype;\\n> \\tint\\t\\t\\ti;\\n> \\tint\\t\\t\\tdterr;\\n> @@ -2906,20 +3148,37 @@\\n> \\n> \\ttype = IGNORE_DTF;\\n> \\ttm->tm_year = 0;\\n> \\ttm->tm_mon = 0;\\n> \\ttm->tm_mday = 0;\\n> \\ttm->tm_hour = 0;\\n> \\ttm->tm_min = 0;\\n> \\ttm->tm_sec = 0;\\n> \\t*fsec = 0;\\n> \\n> +\\t/*\\n> +\\t * Check if it's a ISO 8601 Section 5.5.4.2 \\\"Representation of\\n> + * time-interval by duration only.\\\" \\n> +\\t * Basic extended format: PnYnMnDTnHnMnS\\n> +\\t * PnW\\n> +\\t * http://www.astroclark.freeserve.co.uk/iso8601/index.html\\n> +\\t * ftp://ftp.qsl.net/pub/g1smd/154N362_.PDF\\n> +\\t * Examples: P1D for 1 day\\n> +\\t * PT1H for 1 hour\\n> +\\t * P2Y6M7DT1H30M for 2 years, 6 months, 7 days 1 hour 30 min\\n> +\\t *\\n> +\\t * The first field is exactly \\\"p\\\" or \\\"pt\\\" it may be of this type.\\n> +\\t */\\n> +\\tif (DecodeISO8601Interval(field,ftype,nf,dtype,tm,fsec) == 0) {\\n> +\\t return 0;\\n> + }\\n> +\\n> \\t/* read through list backwards to pick up units before values */\\n> \\tfor (i = nf - 1; i >= 0; i--)\\n> \\t{\\n> \\t\\tswitch (ftype[i])\\n> \\t\\t{\\n> \\t\\t\\tcase DTK_TIME:\\n> \\t\\t\\t\\tdterr = DecodeTime(field[i], fmask, &tmask, tm, fsec);\\n> \\t\\t\\t\\tif (dterr)\\n> \\t\\t\\t\\t\\treturn dterr;\\n> \\t\\t\\t\\ttype = DTK_DAY;\\n> @@ -2983,20 +3242,21 @@\\n> \\t\\t\\t\\t}\\n> \\t\\t\\t\\t/* DROP THROUGH */\\n> \\n> \\t\\t\\tcase DTK_DATE:\\n> \\t\\t\\tcase DTK_NUMBER:\\n> \\t\\t\\t\\tval = strtol(field[i], &cp, 10);\\n> \\n> \\t\\t\\t\\tif (type == IGNORE_DTF)\\n> \\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttype = DTK_SECOND;\\n> \\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t/* should this allow ',' for locales that use it ? */\\n> \\t\\t\\t\\tif (*cp == '.')\\n> \\t\\t\\t\\t{\\n> \\t\\t\\t\\t\\tfval = strtod(cp, &cp);\\n> \\t\\t\\t\\t\\tif (*cp != '\\\\0')\\n> \\t\\t\\t\\t\\t\\treturn DTERR_BAD_FORMAT;\\n> \\n> \\t\\t\\t\\t\\tif (val < 0)\\n> \\t\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tfval = -(fval);\\n> \\t\\t\\t\\t}\\n> \\t\\t\\t\\telse if (*cp == '\\\\0')\\n> \\n> ===================================================================\\n> \\n> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------\\n> TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives?\\n> \\n> http://archives.postgresql.org\\n> \\n\\n-- \\n Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us\\n pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001\\n + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road\\n + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 8 Sep 2003 16:29:56 -0400 (EDT)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: ISO 8601 \\\"Time Intervals\\\" of the \\\"format with time-unit\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Tom wrote: \\n> \\\"Ron Mayer\\\" <ron@intervideo.com> writes:\\n> > Tom wrote:\\n> >> Er, don't we support that already?\\n> > ...AFAICT, doesn't match ISO 8601...\\n> \\n> Well, it's *supposed* to match ISO.... Unless ISO has put out \\n> multiple specs that cover this?\\n\\nAny way to tell if this is the case. \\n8601's the one I see cited the most.\\n\\n\\n> > ...I'd not want to break backward compatability...'1H30M'\\n>\\n> I doubt anyone is using it, because it's completely undocumented.\\n> If we're going to support the real ISO spec, I'd suggest ripping\\n> out any not-quite-there variant.\\n\\nI'm happy to look into it. Rip out completely? Ifdef? \\n\\n> We've been gradually cleaning up the problems, but if if you find \\n> something that doesn't seem to make sense, it's likely a bug rather\\n> than anything we want to preserve. \\n\\nI've seen a few more cases that don't make sense.\\n\\nFor example \\\"why is 0.001 years less than 0.001 months\\\".\\n\\n betadb=# select '0.01 years'::interval\\n interval\\n ----------\\n 00:00:00\\n\\n betadb=# select '0.01 months'::interval\\n interval\\n ----------\\n 07:12:00\\n\\nIf I'm breaking backward compatability anyway, I'd be happy to tweak\\nthings like this one too. Unless, of course someone can give me a \\nreason why we want fractional years rounded to months, but fractional \\nmonths are rounded to fractions of a second.\\n\\n Ron Mayer.\\n\\nPS: mailinglist etiquite question... for discussion, should I\\n more this to hackers, or continue it here.\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 8 Sep 2003 13:42:11 -0700\",\n \"msg_from\": \"\\\"Ron Mayer\\\" <ron@intervideo.com>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: ISO 8601 \\\"Time Intervals\\\" of the \\\"format with time-unit\\n\\tdeignators\\\"\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Ron Mayer wrote:\\n> If I'm breaking backward compatability anyway, I'd be happy to tweak\\n> things like this one too. Unless, of course someone can give me a \\n> reason why we want fractional years rounded to months, but fractional \\n> months are rounded to fractions of a second.\\n> \\n> Ron Mayer.\\n> \\n> PS: mailinglist etiquite question... for discussion, should I\\n> more this to hackers, or continue it here.\\n\\nYour choice, but you get a larger audience on hackers. I usually keep\\nthings on patches when I have lots of code to post, and other times move\\nto hackers.\\n\\n-- \\n Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us\\n pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001\\n + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road\\n + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 8 Sep 2003 17:05:14 -0400 (EDT)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: ISO 8601 \\\"Time Intervals\\\" of the \\\"format with time-unit\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\\"Ron Mayer\\\" <ron@intervideo.com> writes:\\n> For example \\\"why is 0.001 years less than 0.001 months\\\".\\n\\nAnd look at this:\\n\\nregression=# select '0.99 years'::interval;\\n interval\\n----------\\n 11 mons\\n(1 row)\\n\\nregression=# select '0.99 months'::interval;\\n interval\\n------------------\\n 29 days 16:48:00\\n(1 row)\\n\\nIt kinda looks like fractional years are converted to integer months\\n(truncating) while fractional months are moved to the seconds part\\nof the interval. Ick. The handling ought to be consistent if you\\nask me.\\n\\n> If I'm breaking backward compatability anyway, I'd be happy to tweak\\n> things like this one too. Unless, of course someone can give me a \\n> reason why we want fractional years rounded to months, but fractional \\n> months are rounded to fractions of a second.\\n\\nActually, what I'd like to see done with interval is re-implement it as\\na three-field entity, separately storing months, days, and seconds.\\nThe separation between months and smaller units is good because a month\\nisn't a fixed number of any smaller unit, but the same holds true for\\ndays and smaller units (days are not always 24 hours, consider DST\\ntransitions). This would no doubt cause some backwards compatibility\\nproblems, but overall it would fix many more cases than it breaks.\\nWe see complaints about related issues regularly, every spring and fall...\\n\\nI'm unsure whether fractional months or fractional days are sensible\\nto accept, but surely we should accept both or reject both. (This might\\nsuggest that the underlying storage for the month and day fields should\\nbe float not int, btw, but I am not sure about it.)\\n\\n> PS: mailinglist etiquite question... for discussion, should I\\n> more this to hackers, or continue it here.\\n\\nAt this point it should move to pghackers, I think.\\n\\n\\t\\t\\tregards, tom lane\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 08 Sep 2003 17:19:13 -0400\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: ISO 8601 \\\"Time Intervals\\\" of the \\\"format with time-unit\\n\\tdeignators\\\"\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Tom Lane writes:\\n\\n> \\\"Ron Mayer\\\" <ron@intervideo.com> writes:\\n> > Would it be useful if I added a 'datestyle' of 'ISO basic' which\\n> > would produce the most terse formats ('19980115' for dates,\\n> > and 'P1Y1M' for intervals)?\\n>\\n> I don't really care for using that name for it --- for one thing, you\\n> couldn't do\\n> \\tset datestyle to iso basic;\\n> because of syntax limitations. A one-word name is a much better idea.\\n\\niso8601\\n\\nKeep in mind that SQL itself is also a kind of ISO, so being more specific\\nis useful.\\n\\n-- \\nPeter Eisentraut peter_e@gmx.net\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 8 Sep 2003 23:58:09 +0200 (CEST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: ISO 8601 'Time Intervals' of the 'format with time-unit\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net> writes:\\n> Tom Lane writes:\\n>> I don't really care for using that name for it ---\\n\\n> iso8601\\n\\n> Keep in mind that SQL itself is also a kind of ISO, so being more specific\\n> is useful.\\n\\nYes, but by the same token \\\"iso8601\\\" isn't specific enough either.\\nSeveral of the other input formats we support have at least as good a\\nclaim on that name.\\n\\n\\t\\t\\tregards, tom lane\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 08 Sep 2003 18:06:11 -0400\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: ISO 8601 'Time Intervals' of the 'format with time-unit\\n\\tdeignators'\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Tom Lane writes:\\n\\n> Yes, but by the same token \\\"iso8601\\\" isn't specific enough either.\\n> Several of the other input formats we support have at least as good a\\n> claim on that name.\\n\\nThe only input formats we support are along the lines of\\n\\n@ 1 year 2 mons 3 days 4 hours 5 mins 6 secs\\n@ 1 year 2 mons 3 days 04:05:06\\n\\nThese are also the supported output formats (the first you get for 'sql',\\n'postgres', and 'german' formats; the second is 'iso'). A quick check of\\nISO 8601 shows, however, that neither of these are close to anything\\nspecified in that standard.\\n\\n-- \\nPeter Eisentraut peter_e@gmx.net\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 9 Sep 2003 00:39:44 +0200 (CEST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: ISO 8601 'Time Intervals' of the 'format with time-unit\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net> writes:\\n> Tom Lane writes:\\n>> Yes, but by the same token \\\"iso8601\\\" isn't specific enough either.\\n>> Several of the other input formats we support have at least as good a\\n>> claim on that name.\\n\\n> The only input formats we support are along the lines of\\n\\n> @ 1 year 2 mons 3 days 4 hours 5 mins 6 secs\\n> @ 1 year 2 mons 3 days 04:05:06\\n\\nSorry, I was thinking of timestamp formats not intervals.\\nYou're right that we don't have anything else particularly ISO-standard\\nfor intervals, but my understanding is that formats like '2003-09-08\\n18:43:31.046283-04' are ISO8601 compatible for timestamps. (Possibly\\nyou need to put a T in there for strict compatibility, not sure.)\\n\\n\\t\\t\\tregards, tom lane\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 08 Sep 2003 18:45:03 -0400\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: ISO 8601 'Time Intervals' of the 'format with time-unit\\n\\tdeignators'\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Tom wrote...\\n> At this point it should move to pghackers, I think.\\n\\nBackground for pghackers first, open issues below...\\n\\n Over on pgpatches we've been discussing ISO syntax for\\n �time intervals� of the �format with time-unit designators�.\\n http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-patches/2003-09/msg00103.php\\n A short summary is that I�ve submitted a patch that\\n accepts intervals of this format..\\n Postgresql interval: ISO8601 Interval\\n ---------------------------------------------------\\n '1 year 6 months' 'P1Y6M'\\n '3 hours 25 minutes 42 seconds' 'PT3H25M42S'\\n The final draft is here\\n ftp://ftp.qsl.net/pub/g1smd/154N362_.PDF\\n\\n This patch was backward-compatable, but further improvements\\n discussed on patches may break compatability so I wanted to\\n discuss them here before implementing them. I�ll also\\n be submitting a new datestyle �iso8601� to output these intervals.\\n\\nOpen issues:\\n\\n1. Postgresql supported a shorthand for intervals that had\\n a similar, but not compatable syntax:\\n Interval ISO Existing postgres\\n 8601 shorthand\\n -----------------------------------------------------\\n '1 year 1 minute' 'P1YT1M' '1Y1M'\\n '1 year 1 month' 'P1Y1M' N/A\\n\\n The current thinking of the thread in pgpatches is to remove\\n the existing (undocumented) syntax.\\n\\n Removing this will break backward compatability if anyone\\n used this feature. Let me know if you needed it.\\n\\n2. Some of the parsing for intervals is inconsistant and\\n confusing. For example, note that �0.01 years� is\\n less than �0.01 months�.\\n\\n betadb=# select '0.01 month'::interval as hundredth_of_month,\\n betadb-# '0.01 year'::interval as hundredth_of_year;\\n hundredth_of_month | hundredth_of_year\\n --------------------+-------------------\\n 07:12:00 | 00:00:00\\n\\n This occurs because the current interval parsing rounds\\n fractional years to the month, but fractional months\\n to the fraction of a second.\\n\\n The current thinking on the thread in patches is\\n at the very least to make these consistant, but with\\n some open-issues because months aren�t a fixed number\\n of days, and days aren�t a fixed number of seconds.\\n\\n The easiest and most minimal change would be to assume\\n that any fractional part automatically gets turned\\n into seconds, assuming things like 30 seconds/month,\\n 24 hrs/day. Since all units except years work that way\\n today, it�d would have the least impact on existing code.\\n\\n A probably better way that Tom recommended would remember\\n fractional months and fractional days. This has the\\n advantage that unlike today,\\n �.5 months�::interval + �.5 months�::interval\\n would then equal 1 month.\\n\\n So what should �.5 years� be?\\n\\n Today, it�s �6 mons�. But I could just as easily\\n argue that it should be 365.2425/2 days, or 4382.91\\n seconds. Each of these will be different (the last\\n two are different durring daylight savings).\\n\\n3. This all is based on the final draft standard of\\n ISO 8601, but I haven�t seen the actual expensive\\n standard. If anyone has it handy...\\n\\n Also, I�m curious to know what if anything the SQL\\n spec says about intervals and units. Any pointers.\\n\\n Ron\\n\\nAny other interval annoyances I should hit at the same time?\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 8 Sep 2003 16:05:38 -0700\",\n \"msg_from\": \"\\\"Ron Mayer\\\" <ron@intervideo.com>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [PATCHES] ISO 8601 \\\"Time Intervals\\\" of the \\\"format with time-unit\\n\\tdesignators\\\"\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\nTom wrote:\\n> Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net> writes:\\n> > Tom Lane writes:\\n> >> Yes, but by the same token \\\"iso8601\\\" isn't specific enough either.\\n\\nISO 8601 gives more specific names.\\n\\n ISO 8601 Basic Format: P2Y10M15DT10H20M30S\\n ISO 8601 Alternative Format: P00021015T102030\\n ISO 8601 Extended Format: P0002-10-15T10:20:30\\n\\nIn a way, the Extended Format is kinda nice, since it�s\\nalmost human readable.\\n\\nI could put in both the basic and extended ones, and\\ncall the dateformats �iso8601basic� and �iso8601extended�.\\nThe negative is that to do �iso8601basic� right, I�d also\\nhave to tweak the �date� and �time� parts of the code too.\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 8 Sep 2003 16:46:13 -0700\",\n \"msg_from\": \"\\\"Ron Mayer\\\" <ron@intervideo.com>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: ISO 8601 'Time Intervals' of the 'format with time-unit\\n\\tdeignators'\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"[ backtracking a little ]\\n\\n\\\"Ron Mayer\\\" <ron@intervideo.com> writes:\\n> Tom wrote: \\n>> I doubt anyone is using it, because it's completely undocumented.\\n>> If we're going to support the real ISO spec, I'd suggest ripping\\n>> out any not-quite-there variant.\\n\\n> I'm happy to look into it. Rip out completely? Ifdef? \\n\\n\\\"Rip\\\" was what I had in mind --- the idea is to simplify the code,\\nwhich you will surely agree is too complicated as it stands. ifdefs\\nwon't simplify the code or make it more understandable, rather the\\nreverse.\\n\\nI have no problem with complex code when it's needed, but in this case\\nthe ptype implementation of almost-ISO notation seems to me to affect\\nmuch more of the code than it has any right to on a usefulness basis.\\n\\n\\t\\t\\tregards, tom lane\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 09 Sep 2003 00:19:48 -0400\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: ISO 8601 \\\"Time Intervals\\\" of the \\\"format with time-unit\\n\\tdeignators\\\"\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\nWhere did we leave this?\\n\\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------\\n\\nRon Mayer wrote:\\n> \\n> Tom wrote:\\n> > Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net> writes:\\n> > > Tom Lane writes:\\n> > >> Yes, but by the same token \\\"iso8601\\\" isn't specific enough either.\\n> \\n> ISO 8601 gives more specific names.\\n> \\n> ISO 8601 Basic Format: P2Y10M15DT10H20M30S\\n> ISO 8601 Alternative Format: P00021015T102030\\n> ISO 8601 Extended Format: P0002-10-15T10:20:30\\n> \\n> In a way, the Extended Format is kinda nice, since it?s\\n> almost human readable.\\n> \\n> I could put in both the basic and extended ones, and\\n> call the dateformats ?iso8601basic? and ?iso8601extended?.\\n> The negative is that to do ?iso8601basic? right, I?d also\\n> have to tweak the ?date? and ?time? parts of the code too.\\n> \\n> \\n> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------\\n> TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster\\n> \\n\\n-- \\n Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us\\n pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001\\n + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road\\n + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Fri, 26 Sep 2003 18:49:08 -0400 (EDT)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: ISO 8601 'Time Intervals' of the 'format with time-unit\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us> writes:\\n> Where did we leave this?\\n\\nI thought it was proposed work for 7.5.\\n\\n\\t\\t\\tregards, tom lane\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Fri, 26 Sep 2003 18:54:09 -0400\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: ISO 8601 'Time Intervals' of the 'format with time-unit\\n\\tdeignators'\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"So far,\\n\\n I have submitted the input-part.\\n\\n I have a working output-part (attached below, but I'm\\n still cleaning up the documentation so I'll submit another\\n one later). The output is chosen by setting\\n the datestyle to 'iso8601basic'.\\n\\n Those two changes don't break backward compatability\\n but don't fix too much odd behavior except ISO time interval I/O.\\n\\n\\n I was encouraged to look into changing the way timestamp\\n math is done (keeping month, and day, and second separate\\n until the end). This is a bigger change and I don't have\\n a stable version yet, and it breaks backward compatability. \\n I hope to submit a proposal for changes early enough in the\\n 7.5 timeframe to submit fixes then as well. At the very least\\n I will fully document the existing interval-math as part of\\n this proposal so the docs can be updated even if the proposal\\n gets rejected.\\n\\n Ron\\n\\n> -----Original Message-----\\n> From: Tom Lane [mailto:tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us]\\n> Sent: Friday, September 26, 2003 3:54 PM\\n> To: Bruce Momjian\\n> Cc: Ron Mayer; Peter Eisentraut; andrew@dunslane.net;\\n> pgsql-patches@postgresql.org\\n> Subject: Re: [PATCHES] ISO 8601 'Time Intervals' of the 'format with\\n> time-unit deignators' \\n> \\n> \\n> Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us> writes:\\n> > Where did we leave this?\\n> \\n> I thought it was proposed work for 7.5.\\n> \\n> \\t\\t\\tregards, tom lane\\n> \\n>\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:54:58 -0700\",\n \"msg_from\": \"\\\"Ron Mayer\\\" <ron@intervideo.com>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: ISO 8601 'Time Intervals' of the 'format with time-unit\\n\\tdeignators'\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> I have a working output-part (attached below, but I'm\\n> still cleaning up the documentation so I'll submit another\\n> one later)\\n\\nUgh. Something in this pc quoted some characters in the attachment.\\nRather than trying to apply it, wait a couple days and I'll submit\\nan update where the docs match.\\n\\n Ron\\n\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:04:37 -0700\",\n \"msg_from\": \"\\\"Ron Mayer\\\" <ron@intervideo.com>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: ISO 8601 'Time Intervals' of the 'format with time-unit\\n\\tdeignators'\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\nOh... and I'm pretty sure noone expects this before 7.5. :-)\\nLooks like I'm the only one with input files that have these \\nwierd-but-iso8601 'P1Y6M' and 'PT30M' inputs; so I can just \\nuse my own patch. :-)\\n\\n\\n> \\n> So far,\\n> \\n> I have submitted the input-part.\\n> \\n> I have a working output-part (attached below, but I'm\\n> still cleaning up the documentation so I'll submit another\\n> one later). The output is chosen by setting\\n> the datestyle to 'iso8601basic'.\\n> \\n> Those two changes don't break backward compatability\\n> but don't fix too much odd behavior except ISO time interval I/O.\\n> \\n> \\n> I was encouraged to look into changing the way timestamp\\n> math is done (keeping month, and day, and second separate\\n> until the end). This is a bigger change and I don't have\\n> a stable version yet, and it breaks backward compatability. \\n> I hope to submit a proposal for changes early enough in the\\n> 7.5 timeframe to submit fixes then as well. At the very least\\n> I will fully document the existing interval-math as part of\\n> this proposal so the docs can be updated even if the proposal\\n> gets rejected.\\n> \\n> Ron\\n> \\n> > -----Original Message-----\\n> > From: Tom Lane [mailto:tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us]\\n> > Sent: Friday, September 26, 2003 3:54 PM\\n> > To: Bruce Momjian\\n> > Cc: Ron Mayer; Peter Eisentraut; andrew@dunslane.net;\\n> > pgsql-patches@postgresql.org\\n> > Subject: Re: [PATCHES] ISO 8601 'Time Intervals' of the 'format with\\n> > time-unit deignators' \\n> > \\n> > \\n> > Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us> writes:\\n> > > Where did we leave this?\\n> > \\n> > I thought it was proposed work for 7.5.\\n> > \\n> > \\t\\t\\tregards, tom lane\\n> > \\n> > \\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:04:37 -0700\",\n \"msg_from\": \"\\\"Ron Mayer\\\" <ron@intervideo.com>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: ISO 8601 'Time Intervals' of the 'format with time-unit\\n\\tdeignators'\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\nIs this ready for application? It looks good to me. However, there is\\nan \\\"Open issues\\\" section.\\n\\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------\\n\\nRon Mayer wrote:\\n> Short summary:\\n> \\n> This patch allows ISO 8601 \\\"time intervals\\\" using the \\\"format \\n> with time-unit designators\\\" to specify postgresql \\\"intervals\\\".\\n> \\n> Below I have (A) What these time intervals are, (B) What I\\n> modified to support them, (C) Issues with intervals I want\\n> to bring up, and (D) a patch supporting them.\\n> \\n> It's helpful to me. Any feedback is appreciated. If you \\n> did want to consider including it, let me know what to clean \\n> up. If not, I thought I'd just put it here if anyone else finds\\n> it useful too.\\n> \\n> Thanks for your time,\\n> \\n> Ron Mayer\\n> \\n> Longer:\\n> \\n> (A) What these intervals are.\\n> \\n> ISO 8601, the standard from which PostgreSQL gets some of it's \\n> time syntax, also has a specification for \\\"time-intervals\\\".\\n> \\n> In particular, section 5.5.4.2 has a \\\"Representation of\\n> time-interval by duration only\\\" which I believe maps\\n> nicely to ISO intervals.\\n> \\n> Compared to the ISO 8601 time interval specification, the\\n> postgresql interval syntax is quite verbose. For example:\\n> \\n> Postgresql interval: ISO8601 Interval\\n> ---------------------------------------------------\\n> '1 year 6 months' 'P1Y6M'\\n> '3 hours 25 minutes 42 seconds' 'PT3H25M42S'\\n> \\n> Yeah, it's uglier, but it sure is short which can make\\n> for quicker typing and shorter scripts, and if for some\\n> strange reason you had an application using this format\\n> it's nice not to have to translate.\\n> \\n> The syntax is as follows:\\n> Basic extended format: PnYnMnDTnHnMnS\\n> PnW\\n> \\n> Where everything before the \\\"T\\\" is a date-part and everything\\n> after is a time-part. W is for weeks.\\n> In the date-part, Y=Year, M=Month, D=Day\\n> In the time-part, H=Hour, M=Minute, S=Second\\n> \\n> Much more info can be found from the draft standard\\n> ftp://ftp.qsl.net/pub/g1smd/154N362_.PDF\\n> The final standard's only available for $$$ so I didn't\\n> look at it. Some other sites imply that this part didn't\\n> change from the last draft to the standard.\\n> \\n> \\n> (B) This change was made by adding two functions to \\\"datetime.c\\\"\\n> next to where DecodeInterval parses the normal interval syntax.\\n> \\n> A total of 313 lines were added, including comments and sgml docs.\\n> Of these only 136 are actual code, the rest, comments, whitespace, etc.\\n> \\n> \\n> One new function \\\"DecodeISO8601Interval\\\" follows the style of\\n> \\\"DecodeInterval\\\" below it, and trys to strictly follow the ISO\\n> syntax. If it doesn't match, it'll return -1 and the old syntax\\n> will be checked as before.\\n> \\n> The first test (first character of the first field must be 'P', \\n> and second character must be 'T' or '\\\\0') should be fast so I don't\\n> think this will impact performance of existing code.\\n> \\n> \\n> The second function (\\\"adjust_fval\\\") is just a small helper-function\\n> to remove some of the cut&paste style that DecodeInterval used.\\n> \\n> It seems to work.\\n> =======================================================================\\n> betadb=# select 'P1M15DT12H30M7S'::interval;\\n> interval \\n> ------------------------\\n> 1 mon 15 days 12:30:07\\n> (1 row)\\n> \\n> betadb=# select '1 month 15 days 12 hours 30 minutes 7 seconds'::interval;\\n> \\t interval \\n> ------------------------\\n> 1 mon 15 days 12:30:07\\n> (1 row)\\n> =====================================================================\\n> \\n> \\n> \\n> (C) Open issues with intervals, and questions I'd like to ask.\\n> \\n> 1. DecodeInterval seems to have a hardcoded '.' for specifying\\n> fractional times. ISO 8601 states that both '.' and ',' are\\n> ok, but \\\"of these, the comma is the preferred sign\\\".\\n> \\n> In DecodeISO8601Interval I loosened the test to allow\\n> both but left it as it was in DecodeInterval. Should\\n> both be changed to make them more consistant?\\n> \\n> 2. In \\\"DecodeInterval\\\", fractional weeks and fractional months\\n> can produce seconds; but fractional years can not (rounded\\n> to months). I didn't understand the reasoning for this, so\\n> I left it the same, and followed the same convention for\\n> ISO intervals. Should I change this?\\n> \\n> 3. I could save a bunch of copy-paste-lines-of-code from the\\n> pre-existing DecodeInterval by calling the adjust_fval helper\\n> function. The tradeoff is a few extra function-calls when\\n> decoding an interval. However I didn't want to risk changes\\n> to the existing part unless you guys encourage me to do so.\\n> \\n> \\n> (D) The patch.\\n> \\n> \\n> Index: doc/src/sgml/datatype.sgml\\n> ===================================================================\\n> RCS file: /projects/cvsroot/pgsql-server/doc/src/sgml/datatype.sgml,v\\n> retrieving revision 1.123\\n> diff -u -1 -0 -r1.123 datatype.sgml\\n> --- doc/src/sgml/datatype.sgml\\t31 Aug 2003 17:32:18 -0000\\t1.123\\n> +++ doc/src/sgml/datatype.sgml\\t8 Sep 2003 04:04:58 -0000\\n> @@ -1735,20 +1735,71 @@\\n> Quantities of days, hours, minutes, and seconds can be specified without\\n> explicit unit markings. For example, <literal>'1 12:59:10'</> is read\\n> the same as <literal>'1 day 12 hours 59 min 10 sec'</>.\\n> </para>\\n> \\n> <para>\\n> The optional precision\\n> <replaceable>p</replaceable> should be between 0 and 6, and\\n> defaults to the precision of the input literal.\\n> </para>\\n> +\\n> +\\n> + <para>\\n> + Alternatively, <type>interval</type> values can be written as \\n> + ISO 8601 time intervals, using the \\\"Format with time-unit designators\\\".\\n> + This format always starts with the character <literal>'P'</>, followed \\n> + by a string of values followed by single character time-unit designators.\\n> + A <literal>'T'</> separates the date and time parts of the interval.\\n> + </para>\\n> +\\n> + <para>\\n> + Format: PnYnMnDTnHnMnS\\n> + </para>\\n> + <para>\\n> + In this format, <literal>'n'</> gets replaced by a number, and \\n> + <literal>Y</> represents years, \\n> + <literal>M</> (in the date part) months,\\n> + <literal>D</> months,\\n> + <literal>H</> hours,\\n> + <literal>M</> (in the time part) minutes,\\n> + and <literal>S</> seconds.\\n> + </para>\\n> + \\n> +\\n> + <table id=\\\"interval-example-table\\\">\\n> +\\t <title>Interval Example</title>\\n> +\\t <tgroup cols=\\\"2\\\">\\n> +\\t\\t<thead>\\n> +\\t\\t <row>\\n> +\\t\\t <entry>Traditional</entry>\\n> +\\t\\t <entry>ISO-8601 time-interval</entry>\\n> +\\t\\t </row>\\n> +\\t\\t</thead>\\n> +\\t\\t<tbody>\\n> +\\t\\t <row>\\n> +\\t\\t <entry>1 month</entry>\\n> +\\t\\t <entry>P1M</entry>\\n> +\\t\\t </row>\\n> +\\t\\t <row>\\n> +\\t\\t <entry>1 hour 30 minutes</entry>\\n> +\\t\\t <entry>PT1H30M</entry>\\n> +\\t\\t </row>\\n> +\\t\\t <row>\\n> +\\t\\t <entry>2 years 10 months 15 days 10 hours 30 minutes 20 seconds</entry>\\n> +\\t\\t <entry>P2Y10M15DT10H30M20S</entry>\\n> +\\t\\t </row>\\n> +\\t\\t</tbody>\\n> +\\t </thead>\\n> +\\t </table>\\n> +\\t \\n> + </para>\\n> </sect3>\\n> \\n> <sect3>\\n> <title>Special Values</title>\\n> \\n> <indexterm>\\n> <primary>time</primary>\\n> <secondary>constants</secondary>\\n> </indexterm>\\n> \\n> Index: src/backend/utils/adt/datetime.c\\n> ===================================================================\\n> RCS file: /projects/cvsroot/pgsql-server/src/backend/utils/adt/datetime.c,v\\n> retrieving revision 1.116\\n> diff -u -1 -0 -r1.116 datetime.c\\n> --- src/backend/utils/adt/datetime.c\\t27 Aug 2003 23:29:28 -0000\\t1.116\\n> +++ src/backend/utils/adt/datetime.c\\t8 Sep 2003 04:04:59 -0000\\n> @@ -30,20 +30,21 @@\\n> \\t\\t\\t struct tm * tm, fsec_t *fsec, int *is2digits);\\n> static int DecodeNumberField(int len, char *str,\\n> \\t\\t\\t\\t int fmask, int *tmask,\\n> \\t\\t\\t\\t struct tm * tm, fsec_t *fsec, int *is2digits);\\n> static int DecodeTime(char *str, int fmask, int *tmask,\\n> \\t\\t struct tm * tm, fsec_t *fsec);\\n> static int\\tDecodeTimezone(char *str, int *tzp);\\n> static datetkn *datebsearch(char *key, datetkn *base, unsigned int nel);\\n> static int\\tDecodeDate(char *str, int fmask, int *tmask, struct tm * tm);\\n> static void TrimTrailingZeros(char *str);\\n> +static int DecodeISO8601Interval(char **field, int *ftype, int nf, int *dtype, struct tm * tm, fsec_t *fsec);\\n> \\n> \\n> int\\t\\t\\tday_tab[2][13] = {\\n> \\t{31, 28, 31, 30, 31, 30, 31, 31, 30, 31, 30, 31, 0},\\n> {31, 29, 31, 30, 31, 30, 31, 31, 30, 31, 30, 31, 0}};\\n> \\n> char\\t *months[] = {\\\"Jan\\\", \\\"Feb\\\", \\\"Mar\\\", \\\"Apr\\\", \\\"May\\\", \\\"Jun\\\",\\n> \\\"Jul\\\", \\\"Aug\\\", \\\"Sep\\\", \\\"Oct\\\", \\\"Nov\\\", \\\"Dec\\\", NULL};\\n> \\n> char\\t *days[] = {\\\"Sunday\\\", \\\"Monday\\\", \\\"Tuesday\\\", \\\"Wednesday\\\",\\n> @@ -2872,30 +2873,271 @@\\n> \\t\\t\\tdefault:\\n> \\t\\t\\t\\t*val = tp->value;\\n> \\t\\t\\t\\tbreak;\\n> \\t\\t}\\n> \\t}\\n> \\n> \\treturn type;\\n> }\\n> \\n> \\n> +void adjust_fval(double fval,struct tm * tm, fsec_t *fsec, int scale);\\n> +{\\n> +\\tint\\tsec;\\n> +\\tfval\\t *= scale;\\n> +\\tsec\\t\\t = fval;\\n> +\\ttm->tm_sec += sec;\\n> +#ifdef HAVE_INT64_TIMESTAMP\\n> +\\t*fsec\\t += ((fval - sec) * 1000000);\\n> +#else\\n> +\\t*fsec\\t += (fval - sec);\\n> +#endif\\n> +}\\n> +\\n> +\\n> +/* DecodeISO8601Interval()\\n> + *\\n> + * Check if it's a ISO 8601 Section 5.5.4.2 \\\"Representation of\\n> + * time-interval by duration only.\\\" \\n> + * Basic extended format: PnYnMnDTnHnMnS\\n> + * PnW\\n> + * For more info.\\n> + * http://www.astroclark.freeserve.co.uk/iso8601/index.html\\n> + * ftp://ftp.qsl.net/pub/g1smd/154N362_.PDF\\n> + *\\n> + * Examples: P1D for 1 day\\n> + * PT1H for 1 hour\\n> + * P2Y6M7DT1H30M for 2 years, 6 months, 7 days 1 hour 30 min\\n> + *\\n> + * The first field is exactly \\\"p\\\" or \\\"pt\\\" it may be of this type.\\n> + *\\n> + * Returns -1 if the field is not of this type.\\n> + *\\n> + * It pretty strictly checks the spec, with the two exceptions\\n> + * that a week field ('W') may coexist with other units, and that\\n> + * this function allows decimals in fields other than the least\\n> + * significant units.\\n> + */\\n> +int\\n> +DecodeISO8601Interval(char **field, int *ftype, int nf, int *dtype, struct tm * tm, fsec_t *fsec) \\n> +{\\n> +\\tchar\\t *cp;\\n> +\\tint\\t\\t\\tfmask = 0,\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\ttmask;\\n> +\\tint\\t\\t\\tval;\\n> +\\tdouble\\t\\tfval;\\n> +\\tint\\t\\t\\targ;\\n> +\\tint\\t\\t\\tdatepart;\\n> +\\n> + /*\\n> +\\t * An ISO 8601 \\\"time-interval by duration only\\\" must start\\n> +\\t * with a 'P'. If it contains a date-part, 'p' will be the\\n> +\\t * only character in the field. If it contains no date part\\n> +\\t * it will contain exactly to characters 'PT' indicating a\\n> +\\t * time part.\\n> +\\t * Anything else is illegal and will be treated like a \\n> +\\t * traditional postgresql interval.\\n> +\\t */\\n> + if (!(field[0][0] == 'p' &&\\n> + ((field[0][1] == 0) || (field[0][1] == 't' && field[0][2] == 0))))\\n> +\\t{\\n> +\\t return -1;\\n> +\\t}\\n> +\\n> +\\n> + /*\\n> +\\t * If the first field is exactly 1 character ('P'), it starts\\n> +\\t * with date elements. Otherwise it's two characters ('PT');\\n> +\\t * indicating it starts with a time part.\\n> +\\t */\\n> +\\tdatepart = (field[0][1] == 0);\\n> +\\n> +\\t/*\\n> +\\t * Every value must have a unit, so we require an even\\n> +\\t * number of value/unit pairs. Therefore we require an\\n> +\\t * odd nubmer of fields, including the prefix 'P'.\\n> +\\t */\\n> +\\tif ((nf & 1) == 0)\\n> +\\t\\treturn -1;\\n> +\\n> +\\t/*\\n> +\\t * Process pairs of fields at a time.\\n> +\\t */\\n> +\\tfor (arg = 1 ; arg < nf ; arg+=2) \\n> +\\t{\\n> +\\t\\tchar * value = field[arg ];\\n> +\\t\\tchar * units = field[arg+1];\\n> +\\n> +\\t\\t/*\\n> +\\t\\t * The value part must be a number.\\n> +\\t\\t */\\n> +\\t\\tif (ftype[arg] != DTK_NUMBER) \\n> +\\t\\t\\treturn -1;\\n> +\\n> +\\t\\t/*\\n> +\\t\\t * extract the number, almost exactly like the non-ISO interval.\\n> +\\t\\t */\\n> +\\t\\tval = strtol(value, &cp, 10);\\n> +\\n> +\\t\\t/*\\n> +\\t\\t * One difference from the normal postgresql interval below...\\n> +\\t\\t * ISO 8601 states that \\\"Of these, the comma is the preferred \\n> +\\t\\t * sign\\\" so I allow it here for locales that support it.\\n> +\\t\\t * Note: Perhaps the old-style interval code below should\\n> +\\t\\t * allow for this too, but I didn't want to risk backward\\n> +\\t\\t * compatability.\\n> +\\t\\t */\\n> +\\t\\tif (*cp == '.' || *cp == ',') \\n> +\\t\\t{\\n> +\\t\\t\\tfval = strtod(cp, &cp);\\n> +\\t\\t\\tif (*cp != '\\\\0')\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\treturn -1;\\n> +\\n> +\\t\\t\\tif (val < 0)\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\tfval = -(fval);\\n> +\\t\\t}\\n> +\\t\\telse if (*cp == '\\\\0')\\n> +\\t\\t\\tfval = 0;\\n> +\\t\\telse\\n> +\\t\\t\\treturn -1;\\n> +\\n> +\\n> +\\t\\tif (datepart)\\n> +\\t\\t{\\n> +\\t\\t\\t/*\\n> +\\t\\t\\t * All the 8601 unit specifiers are 1 character, but may\\n> +\\t\\t\\t * be followed by a 'T' character if transitioning between\\n> +\\t\\t\\t * the date part and the time part. If it's not either\\n> +\\t\\t\\t * one character or two characters with the second being 't'\\n> +\\t\\t\\t * it's an error.\\n> +\\t\\t\\t */\\n> +\\t\\t\\tif (!(units[1] == 0 || (units[1] == 't' && units[2] == 0)))\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\treturn -1;\\n> +\\n> +\\t\\t\\tif (units[1] == 't')\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\tdatepart = 0;\\n> +\\n> +\\t\\t\\tswitch (units[0]) /* Y M D W */\\n> +\\t\\t\\t{\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\tcase 'd':\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttm->tm_mday += val;\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tif (fval != 0)\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t adjust_fval(fval,tm,fsec, 86400);\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttmask = ((fmask & DTK_M(DAY)) ? 0 : DTK_M(DAY));\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tbreak;\\n> +\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\tcase 'w':\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttm->tm_mday += val * 7;\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tif (fval != 0)\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t adjust_fval(fval,tm,fsec,7 * 86400);\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttmask = ((fmask & DTK_M(DAY)) ? 0 : DTK_M(DAY));\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tbreak;\\n> +\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\tcase 'm':\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttm->tm_mon += val;\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tif (fval != 0)\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t adjust_fval(fval,tm,fsec,30 * 86400);\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttmask = DTK_M(MONTH);\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tbreak;\\n> +\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\tcase 'y':\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t/*\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t * Why can fractional months produce seconds,\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t * but fractional years can't? Well the older\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t * interval code below has the same property\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t * so this one follows the other one too.\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t */\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttm->tm_year += val;\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tif (fval != 0)\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttm->tm_mon += (fval * 12);\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttmask = ((fmask & DTK_M(YEAR)) ? 0 : DTK_M(YEAR));\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tbreak;\\n> +\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\tdefault:\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\treturn -1; /* invald date unit prefix */\\n> +\\t\\t\\t}\\n> +\\t\\t}\\n> +\\t\\telse\\n> +\\t\\t{\\n> +\\t\\t\\t/*\\n> +\\t\\t\\t * ISO 8601 time part.\\n> +\\t\\t\\t * In the time part, only one-character\\n> +\\t\\t\\t * unit prefixes are allowed. If it's more\\n> +\\t\\t\\t * than one character, it's not a valid ISO 8601\\n> +\\t\\t\\t * time interval by duration.\\n> +\\t\\t\\t */\\n> +\\t\\t\\tif (units[1] != 0)\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\treturn -1;\\n> +\\n> +\\t\\t\\tswitch (units[0]) /* H M S */\\n> +\\t\\t\\t{\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\tcase 's':\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttm->tm_sec += val;\\n> +#ifdef HAVE_INT64_TIMESTAMP\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t*fsec += (fval * 1000000);\\n> +#else\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t*fsec += fval;\\n> +#endif\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttmask = DTK_M(SECOND);\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tbreak;\\n> +\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\tcase 'm':\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttm->tm_min += val;\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tif (fval != 0)\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t adjust_fval(fval,tm,fsec,60);\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttmask = DTK_M(MINUTE);\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tbreak;\\n> +\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\tcase 'h':\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttm->tm_hour += val;\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tif (fval != 0)\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t adjust_fval(fval,tm,fsec,3600);\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttmask = DTK_M(HOUR);\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tbreak;\\n> +\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\tdefault:\\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\treturn -1; /* invald time unit prefix */\\n> +\\t\\t\\t}\\n> +\\t\\t}\\n> +\\t\\tfmask |= tmask;\\n> +\\t}\\n> +\\n> +\\tif (*fsec != 0)\\n> +\\t{\\n> +\\t\\tint\\t\\t\\tsec;\\n> +\\n> +#ifdef HAVE_INT64_TIMESTAMP\\n> +\\t\\tsec = (*fsec / INT64CONST(1000000));\\n> +\\t\\t*fsec -= (sec * INT64CONST(1000000));\\n> +#else\\n> +\\t\\tTMODULO(*fsec, sec, 1e0);\\n> +#endif\\n> +\\t\\ttm->tm_sec += sec;\\n> +\\t}\\n> +\\treturn (fmask != 0) ? 0 : -1;\\n> +}\\n> +\\n> +\\n> /* DecodeInterval()\\n> * Interpret previously parsed fields for general time interval.\\n> * Returns 0 if successful, DTERR code if bogus input detected.\\n> *\\n> * Allow \\\"date\\\" field DTK_DATE since this could be just\\n> *\\tan unsigned floating point number. - thomas 1997-11-16\\n> *\\n> * Allow ISO-style time span, with implicit units on number of days\\n> *\\tpreceding an hh:mm:ss field. - thomas 1998-04-30\\n> + * \\n> + * Allow ISO-8601 style \\\"Representation of time-interval by duration only\\\"\\n> + * of the format 'PnYnMnDTnHnMnS' and 'PnW' - ron 2003-08-30\\n> */\\n> +\\n> int\\n> DecodeInterval(char **field, int *ftype, int nf, int *dtype, struct tm * tm, fsec_t *fsec)\\n> {\\n> \\tint\\t\\t\\tis_before = FALSE;\\n> \\tchar\\t *cp;\\n> \\tint\\t\\t\\tfmask = 0,\\n> \\t\\t\\t\\ttmask,\\n> \\t\\t\\t\\ttype;\\n> \\tint\\t\\t\\ti;\\n> \\tint\\t\\t\\tdterr;\\n> @@ -2906,20 +3148,37 @@\\n> \\n> \\ttype = IGNORE_DTF;\\n> \\ttm->tm_year = 0;\\n> \\ttm->tm_mon = 0;\\n> \\ttm->tm_mday = 0;\\n> \\ttm->tm_hour = 0;\\n> \\ttm->tm_min = 0;\\n> \\ttm->tm_sec = 0;\\n> \\t*fsec = 0;\\n> \\n> +\\t/*\\n> +\\t * Check if it's a ISO 8601 Section 5.5.4.2 \\\"Representation of\\n> + * time-interval by duration only.\\\" \\n> +\\t * Basic extended format: PnYnMnDTnHnMnS\\n> +\\t * PnW\\n> +\\t * http://www.astroclark.freeserve.co.uk/iso8601/index.html\\n> +\\t * ftp://ftp.qsl.net/pub/g1smd/154N362_.PDF\\n> +\\t * Examples: P1D for 1 day\\n> +\\t * PT1H for 1 hour\\n> +\\t * P2Y6M7DT1H30M for 2 years, 6 months, 7 days 1 hour 30 min\\n> +\\t *\\n> +\\t * The first field is exactly \\\"p\\\" or \\\"pt\\\" it may be of this type.\\n> +\\t */\\n> +\\tif (DecodeISO8601Interval(field,ftype,nf,dtype,tm,fsec) == 0) {\\n> +\\t return 0;\\n> + }\\n> +\\n> \\t/* read through list backwards to pick up units before values */\\n> \\tfor (i = nf - 1; i >= 0; i--)\\n> \\t{\\n> \\t\\tswitch (ftype[i])\\n> \\t\\t{\\n> \\t\\t\\tcase DTK_TIME:\\n> \\t\\t\\t\\tdterr = DecodeTime(field[i], fmask, &tmask, tm, fsec);\\n> \\t\\t\\t\\tif (dterr)\\n> \\t\\t\\t\\t\\treturn dterr;\\n> \\t\\t\\t\\ttype = DTK_DAY;\\n> @@ -2983,20 +3242,21 @@\\n> \\t\\t\\t\\t}\\n> \\t\\t\\t\\t/* DROP THROUGH */\\n> \\n> \\t\\t\\tcase DTK_DATE:\\n> \\t\\t\\tcase DTK_NUMBER:\\n> \\t\\t\\t\\tval = strtol(field[i], &cp, 10);\\n> \\n> \\t\\t\\t\\tif (type == IGNORE_DTF)\\n> \\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttype = DTK_SECOND;\\n> \\n> +\\t\\t\\t\\t/* should this allow ',' for locales that use it ? */\\n> \\t\\t\\t\\tif (*cp == '.')\\n> \\t\\t\\t\\t{\\n> \\t\\t\\t\\t\\tfval = strtod(cp, &cp);\\n> \\t\\t\\t\\t\\tif (*cp != '\\\\0')\\n> \\t\\t\\t\\t\\t\\treturn DTERR_BAD_FORMAT;\\n> \\n> \\t\\t\\t\\t\\tif (val < 0)\\n> \\t\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tfval = -(fval);\\n> \\t\\t\\t\\t}\\n> \\t\\t\\t\\telse if (*cp == '\\\\0')\\n> \\n> ===================================================================\\n> \\n> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------\\n> TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives?\\n> \\n> http://archives.postgresql.org\\n> \\n\\n-- \\n Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us\\n pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001\\n + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road\\n + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sun, 30 Nov 2003 23:52:10 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: ISO 8601 \\\"Time Intervals\\\" of the \\\"format with time-unit\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\nHere is an email on the open issues.\\n\\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------\\n\\nRon Mayer wrote:\\n> Tom wrote...\\n> > At this point it should move to pghackers, I think.\\n> \\n> Background for pghackers first, open issues below...\\n> \\n> Over on pgpatches we've been discussing ISO syntax for\\n> ?time intervals? of the ?format with time-unit designators?.\\n> http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-patches/2003-09/msg00103.php\\n> A short summary is that I?ve submitted a patch that\\n> accepts intervals of this format..\\n> Postgresql interval: ISO8601 Interval\\n> ---------------------------------------------------\\n> '1 year 6 months' 'P1Y6M'\\n> '3 hours 25 minutes 42 seconds' 'PT3H25M42S'\\n> The final draft is here\\n> ftp://ftp.qsl.net/pub/g1smd/154N362_.PDF\\n> \\n> This patch was backward-compatable, but further improvements\\n> discussed on patches may break compatability so I wanted to\\n> discuss them here before implementing them. I?ll also\\n> be submitting a new datestyle ?iso8601? to output these intervals.\\n> \\n> Open issues:\\n> \\n> 1. Postgresql supported a shorthand for intervals that had\\n> a similar, but not compatable syntax:\\n> Interval ISO Existing postgres\\n> 8601 shorthand\\n> -----------------------------------------------------\\n> '1 year 1 minute' 'P1YT1M' '1Y1M'\\n> '1 year 1 month' 'P1Y1M' N/A\\n> \\n> The current thinking of the thread in pgpatches is to remove\\n> the existing (undocumented) syntax.\\n> \\n> Removing this will break backward compatability if anyone\\n> used this feature. Let me know if you needed it.\\n> \\n> 2. Some of the parsing for intervals is inconsistant and\\n> confusing. For example, note that ?0.01 years? is\\n> less than ?0.01 months?.\\n> \\n> betadb=# select '0.01 month'::interval as hundredth_of_month,\\n> betadb-# '0.01 year'::interval as hundredth_of_year;\\n> hundredth_of_month | hundredth_of_year\\n> --------------------+-------------------\\n> 07:12:00 | 00:00:00\\n> \\n> This occurs because the current interval parsing rounds\\n> fractional years to the month, but fractional months\\n> to the fraction of a second.\\n> \\n> The current thinking on the thread in patches is\\n> at the very least to make these consistant, but with\\n> some open-issues because months aren?t a fixed number\\n> of days, and days aren?t a fixed number of seconds.\\n> \\n> The easiest and most minimal change would be to assume\\n> that any fractional part automatically gets turned\\n> into seconds, assuming things like 30 seconds/month,\\n> 24 hrs/day. Since all units except years work that way\\n> today, it?d would have the least impact on existing code.\\n> \\n> A probably better way that Tom recommended would remember\\n> fractional months and fractional days. This has the\\n> advantage that unlike today,\\n> ?.5 months?::interval + ?.5 months?::interval\\n> would then equal 1 month.\\n> \\n> So what should ?.5 years? be?\\n> \\n> Today, it?s ?6 mons?. But I could just as easily\\n> argue that it should be 365.2425/2 days, or 4382.91\\n> seconds. Each of these will be different (the last\\n> two are different durring daylight savings).\\n> \\n> 3. This all is based on the final draft standard of\\n> ISO 8601, but I haven?t seen the actual expensive\\n> standard. If anyone has it handy...\\n> \\n> Also, I?m curious to know what if anything the SQL\\n> spec says about intervals and units. Any pointers.\\n> \\n> Ron\\n> \\n> Any other interval annoyances I should hit at the same time?\\n> \\n> \\n> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------\\n> TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate\\n> subscribe-nomail command to majordomo@postgresql.org so that your\\n> message can get through to the mailing list cleanly\\n> \\n\\n-- \\n Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us\\n pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001\\n + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road\\n + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sun, 30 Nov 2003 23:53:13 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [PATCHES] ISO 8601 \\\"Time Intervals\\\" of the \\\"format with\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\nAnd another open issues email.\\n\\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------\\n\\nRon Mayer wrote:\\n> \\n> Tom wrote:\\n> > Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net> writes:\\n> > > Tom Lane writes:\\n> > >> Yes, but by the same token \\\"iso8601\\\" isn't specific enough either.\\n> \\n> ISO 8601 gives more specific names.\\n> \\n> ISO 8601 Basic Format: P2Y10M15DT10H20M30S\\n> ISO 8601 Alternative Format: P00021015T102030\\n> ISO 8601 Extended Format: P0002-10-15T10:20:30\\n> \\n> In a way, the Extended Format is kinda nice, since it?s\\n> almost human readable.\\n> \\n> I could put in both the basic and extended ones, and\\n> call the dateformats ?iso8601basic? and ?iso8601extended?.\\n> The negative is that to do ?iso8601basic? right, I?d also\\n> have to tweak the ?date? and ?time? parts of the code too.\\n> \\n> \\n> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------\\n> TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster\\n> \\n\\n-- \\n Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us\\n pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001\\n + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road\\n + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sun, 30 Nov 2003 23:53:22 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: ISO 8601 'Time Intervals' of the 'format with time-unit\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Bruce Momjian writes:\\n\\n> Is this ready for application? It looks good to me. However, there is\\n> an \\\"Open issues\\\" section.\\n\\nIt would be more useful to implement the SQL standard for intervals first\\ninstead of inventing more nonstandard formats for it.\\n\\n>\\n> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\\n>\\n> Ron Mayer wrote:\\n> > Short summary:\\n> >\\n> > This patch allows ISO 8601 \\\"time intervals\\\" using the \\\"format\\n> > with time-unit designators\\\" to specify postgresql \\\"intervals\\\".\\n> >\\n> > Below I have (A) What these time intervals are, (B) What I\\n> > modified to support them, (C) Issues with intervals I want\\n> > to bring up, and (D) a patch supporting them.\\n> >\\n> > It's helpful to me. Any feedback is appreciated. If you\\n> > did want to consider including it, let me know what to clean\\n> > up. If not, I thought I'd just put it here if anyone else finds\\n> > it useful too.\\n> >\\n> > Thanks for your time,\\n> >\\n> > Ron Mayer\\n> >\\n> > Longer:\\n> >\\n> > (A) What these intervals are.\\n> >\\n> > ISO 8601, the standard from which PostgreSQL gets some of it's\\n> > time syntax, also has a specification for \\\"time-intervals\\\".\\n> >\\n> > In particular, section 5.5.4.2 has a \\\"Representation of\\n> > time-interval by duration only\\\" which I believe maps\\n> > nicely to ISO intervals.\\n> >\\n> > Compared to the ISO 8601 time interval specification, the\\n> > postgresql interval syntax is quite verbose. For example:\\n> >\\n> > Postgresql interval: ISO8601 Interval\\n> > ---------------------------------------------------\\n> > '1 year 6 months' 'P1Y6M'\\n> > '3 hours 25 minutes 42 seconds' 'PT3H25M42S'\\n> >\\n> > Yeah, it's uglier, but it sure is short which can make\\n> > for quicker typing and shorter scripts, and if for some\\n> > strange reason you had an application using this format\\n> > it's nice not to have to translate.\\n> >\\n> > The syntax is as follows:\\n> > Basic extended format: PnYnMnDTnHnMnS\\n> > PnW\\n> >\\n> > Where everything before the \\\"T\\\" is a date-part and everything\\n> > after is a time-part. W is for weeks.\\n> > In the date-part, Y=Year, M=Month, D=Day\\n> > In the time-part, H=Hour, M=Minute, S=Second\\n> >\\n> > Much more info can be found from the draft standard\\n> > ftp://ftp.qsl.net/pub/g1smd/154N362_.PDF\\n> > The final standard's only available for $$$ so I didn't\\n> > look at it. Some other sites imply that this part didn't\\n> > change from the last draft to the standard.\\n> >\\n> >\\n> > (B) This change was made by adding two functions to \\\"datetime.c\\\"\\n> > next to where DecodeInterval parses the normal interval syntax.\\n> >\\n> > A total of 313 lines were added, including comments and sgml docs.\\n> > Of these only 136 are actual code, the rest, comments, whitespace, etc.\\n> >\\n> >\\n> > One new function \\\"DecodeISO8601Interval\\\" follows the style of\\n> > \\\"DecodeInterval\\\" below it, and trys to strictly follow the ISO\\n> > syntax. If it doesn't match, it'll return -1 and the old syntax\\n> > will be checked as before.\\n> >\\n> > The first test (first character of the first field must be 'P',\\n> > and second character must be 'T' or '\\\\0') should be fast so I don't\\n> > think this will impact performance of existing code.\\n> >\\n> >\\n> > The second function (\\\"adjust_fval\\\") is just a small helper-function\\n> > to remove some of the cut&paste style that DecodeInterval used.\\n> >\\n> > It seems to work.\\n> > =======================================================================\\n> > betadb=# select 'P1M15DT12H30M7S'::interval;\\n> > interval\\n> > ------------------------\\n> > 1 mon 15 days 12:30:07\\n> > (1 row)\\n> >\\n> > betadb=# select '1 month 15 days 12 hours 30 minutes 7 seconds'::interval;\\n> > \\t interval\\n> > ------------------------\\n> > 1 mon 15 days 12:30:07\\n> > (1 row)\\n> > =====================================================================\\n> >\\n> >\\n> >\\n> > (C) Open issues with intervals, and questions I'd like to ask.\\n> >\\n> > 1. DecodeInterval seems to have a hardcoded '.' for specifying\\n> > fractional times. ISO 8601 states that both '.' and ',' are\\n> > ok, but \\\"of these, the comma is the preferred sign\\\".\\n> >\\n> > In DecodeISO8601Interval I loosened the test to allow\\n> > both but left it as it was in DecodeInterval. Should\\n> > both be changed to make them more consistant?\\n> >\\n> > 2. In \\\"DecodeInterval\\\", fractional weeks and fractional months\\n> > can produce seconds; but fractional years can not (rounded\\n> > to months). I didn't understand the reasoning for this, so\\n> > I left it the same, and followed the same convention for\\n> > ISO intervals. Should I change this?\\n> >\\n> > 3. I could save a bunch of copy-paste-lines-of-code from the\\n> > pre-existing DecodeInterval by calling the adjust_fval helper\\n> > function. The tradeoff is a few extra function-calls when\\n> > decoding an interval. However I didn't want to risk changes\\n> > to the existing part unless you guys encourage me to do so.\\n> >\\n> >\\n> > (D) The patch.\\n> >\\n> >\\n> > Index: doc/src/sgml/datatype.sgml\\n> > ===================================================================\\n> > RCS file: /projects/cvsroot/pgsql-server/doc/src/sgml/datatype.sgml,v\\n> > retrieving revision 1.123\\n> > diff -u -1 -0 -r1.123 datatype.sgml\\n> > --- doc/src/sgml/datatype.sgml\\t31 Aug 2003 17:32:18 -0000\\t1.123\\n> > +++ doc/src/sgml/datatype.sgml\\t8 Sep 2003 04:04:58 -0000\\n> > @@ -1735,20 +1735,71 @@\\n> > Quantities of days, hours, minutes, and seconds can be specified without\\n> > explicit unit markings. For example, <literal>'1 12:59:10'</> is read\\n> > the same as <literal>'1 day 12 hours 59 min 10 sec'</>.\\n> > </para>\\n> >\\n> > <para>\\n> > The optional precision\\n> > <replaceable>p</replaceable> should be between 0 and 6, and\\n> > defaults to the precision of the input literal.\\n> > </para>\\n> > +\\n> > +\\n> > + <para>\\n> > + Alternatively, <type>interval</type> values can be written as\\n> > + ISO 8601 time intervals, using the \\\"Format with time-unit designators\\\".\\n> > + This format always starts with the character <literal>'P'</>, followed\\n> > + by a string of values followed by single character time-unit designators.\\n> > + A <literal>'T'</> separates the date and time parts of the interval.\\n> > + </para>\\n> > +\\n> > + <para>\\n> > + Format: PnYnMnDTnHnMnS\\n> > + </para>\\n> > + <para>\\n> > + In this format, <literal>'n'</> gets replaced by a number, and\\n> > + <literal>Y</> represents years,\\n> > + <literal>M</> (in the date part) months,\\n> > + <literal>D</> months,\\n> > + <literal>H</> hours,\\n> > + <literal>M</> (in the time part) minutes,\\n> > + and <literal>S</> seconds.\\n> > + </para>\\n> > +\\n> > +\\n> > + <table id=\\\"interval-example-table\\\">\\n> > +\\t <title>Interval Example</title>\\n> > +\\t <tgroup cols=\\\"2\\\">\\n> > +\\t\\t<thead>\\n> > +\\t\\t <row>\\n> > +\\t\\t <entry>Traditional</entry>\\n> > +\\t\\t <entry>ISO-8601 time-interval</entry>\\n> > +\\t\\t </row>\\n> > +\\t\\t</thead>\\n> > +\\t\\t<tbody>\\n> > +\\t\\t <row>\\n> > +\\t\\t <entry>1 month</entry>\\n> > +\\t\\t <entry>P1M</entry>\\n> > +\\t\\t </row>\\n> > +\\t\\t <row>\\n> > +\\t\\t <entry>1 hour 30 minutes</entry>\\n> > +\\t\\t <entry>PT1H30M</entry>\\n> > +\\t\\t </row>\\n> > +\\t\\t <row>\\n> > +\\t\\t <entry>2 years 10 months 15 days 10 hours 30 minutes 20 seconds</entry>\\n> > +\\t\\t <entry>P2Y10M15DT10H30M20S</entry>\\n> > +\\t\\t </row>\\n> > +\\t\\t</tbody>\\n> > +\\t </thead>\\n> > +\\t </table>\\n> > +\\n> > + </para>\\n> > </sect3>\\n> >\\n> > <sect3>\\n> > <title>Special Values</title>\\n> >\\n> > <indexterm>\\n> > <primary>time</primary>\\n> > <secondary>constants</secondary>\\n> > </indexterm>\\n> >\\n> > Index: src/backend/utils/adt/datetime.c\\n> > ===================================================================\\n> > RCS file: /projects/cvsroot/pgsql-server/src/backend/utils/adt/datetime.c,v\\n> > retrieving revision 1.116\\n> > diff -u -1 -0 -r1.116 datetime.c\\n> > --- src/backend/utils/adt/datetime.c\\t27 Aug 2003 23:29:28 -0000\\t1.116\\n> > +++ src/backend/utils/adt/datetime.c\\t8 Sep 2003 04:04:59 -0000\\n> > @@ -30,20 +30,21 @@\\n> > \\t\\t\\t struct tm * tm, fsec_t *fsec, int *is2digits);\\n> > static int DecodeNumberField(int len, char *str,\\n> > \\t\\t\\t\\t int fmask, int *tmask,\\n> > \\t\\t\\t\\t struct tm * tm, fsec_t *fsec, int *is2digits);\\n> > static int DecodeTime(char *str, int fmask, int *tmask,\\n> > \\t\\t struct tm * tm, fsec_t *fsec);\\n> > static int\\tDecodeTimezone(char *str, int *tzp);\\n> > static datetkn *datebsearch(char *key, datetkn *base, unsigned int nel);\\n> > static int\\tDecodeDate(char *str, int fmask, int *tmask, struct tm * tm);\\n> > static void TrimTrailingZeros(char *str);\\n> > +static int DecodeISO8601Interval(char **field, int *ftype, int nf, int *dtype, struct tm * tm, fsec_t *fsec);\\n> >\\n> >\\n> > int\\t\\t\\tday_tab[2][13] = {\\n> > \\t{31, 28, 31, 30, 31, 30, 31, 31, 30, 31, 30, 31, 0},\\n> > {31, 29, 31, 30, 31, 30, 31, 31, 30, 31, 30, 31, 0}};\\n> >\\n> > char\\t *months[] = {\\\"Jan\\\", \\\"Feb\\\", \\\"Mar\\\", \\\"Apr\\\", \\\"May\\\", \\\"Jun\\\",\\n> > \\\"Jul\\\", \\\"Aug\\\", \\\"Sep\\\", \\\"Oct\\\", \\\"Nov\\\", \\\"Dec\\\", NULL};\\n> >\\n> > char\\t *days[] = {\\\"Sunday\\\", \\\"Monday\\\", \\\"Tuesday\\\", \\\"Wednesday\\\",\\n> > @@ -2872,30 +2873,271 @@\\n> > \\t\\t\\tdefault:\\n> > \\t\\t\\t\\t*val = tp->value;\\n> > \\t\\t\\t\\tbreak;\\n> > \\t\\t}\\n> > \\t}\\n> >\\n> > \\treturn type;\\n> > }\\n> >\\n> >\\n> > +void adjust_fval(double fval,struct tm * tm, fsec_t *fsec, int scale);\\n> > +{\\n> > +\\tint\\tsec;\\n> > +\\tfval\\t *= scale;\\n> > +\\tsec\\t\\t = fval;\\n> > +\\ttm->tm_sec += sec;\\n> > +#ifdef HAVE_INT64_TIMESTAMP\\n> > +\\t*fsec\\t += ((fval - sec) * 1000000);\\n> > +#else\\n> > +\\t*fsec\\t += (fval - sec);\\n> > +#endif\\n> > +}\\n> > +\\n> > +\\n> > +/* DecodeISO8601Interval()\\n> > + *\\n> > + * Check if it's a ISO 8601 Section 5.5.4.2 \\\"Representation of\\n> > + * time-interval by duration only.\\\"\\n> > + * Basic extended format: PnYnMnDTnHnMnS\\n> > + * PnW\\n> > + * For more info.\\n> > + * http://www.astroclark.freeserve.co.uk/iso8601/index.html\\n> > + * ftp://ftp.qsl.net/pub/g1smd/154N362_.PDF\\n> > + *\\n> > + * Examples: P1D for 1 day\\n> > + * PT1H for 1 hour\\n> > + * P2Y6M7DT1H30M for 2 years, 6 months, 7 days 1 hour 30 min\\n> > + *\\n> > + * The first field is exactly \\\"p\\\" or \\\"pt\\\" it may be of this type.\\n> > + *\\n> > + * Returns -1 if the field is not of this type.\\n> > + *\\n> > + * It pretty strictly checks the spec, with the two exceptions\\n> > + * that a week field ('W') may coexist with other units, and that\\n> > + * this function allows decimals in fields other than the least\\n> > + * significant units.\\n> > + */\\n> > +int\\n> > +DecodeISO8601Interval(char **field, int *ftype, int nf, int *dtype, struct tm * tm, fsec_t *fsec)\\n> > +{\\n> > +\\tchar\\t *cp;\\n> > +\\tint\\t\\t\\tfmask = 0,\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\ttmask;\\n> > +\\tint\\t\\t\\tval;\\n> > +\\tdouble\\t\\tfval;\\n> > +\\tint\\t\\t\\targ;\\n> > +\\tint\\t\\t\\tdatepart;\\n> > +\\n> > + /*\\n> > +\\t * An ISO 8601 \\\"time-interval by duration only\\\" must start\\n> > +\\t * with a 'P'. If it contains a date-part, 'p' will be the\\n> > +\\t * only character in the field. If it contains no date part\\n> > +\\t * it will contain exactly to characters 'PT' indicating a\\n> > +\\t * time part.\\n> > +\\t * Anything else is illegal and will be treated like a\\n> > +\\t * traditional postgresql interval.\\n> > +\\t */\\n> > + if (!(field[0][0] == 'p' &&\\n> > + ((field[0][1] == 0) || (field[0][1] == 't' && field[0][2] == 0))))\\n> > +\\t{\\n> > +\\t return -1;\\n> > +\\t}\\n> > +\\n> > +\\n> > + /*\\n> > +\\t * If the first field is exactly 1 character ('P'), it starts\\n> > +\\t * with date elements. Otherwise it's two characters ('PT');\\n> > +\\t * indicating it starts with a time part.\\n> > +\\t */\\n> > +\\tdatepart = (field[0][1] == 0);\\n> > +\\n> > +\\t/*\\n> > +\\t * Every value must have a unit, so we require an even\\n> > +\\t * number of value/unit pairs. Therefore we require an\\n> > +\\t * odd nubmer of fields, including the prefix 'P'.\\n> > +\\t */\\n> > +\\tif ((nf & 1) == 0)\\n> > +\\t\\treturn -1;\\n> > +\\n> > +\\t/*\\n> > +\\t * Process pairs of fields at a time.\\n> > +\\t */\\n> > +\\tfor (arg = 1 ; arg < nf ; arg+=2)\\n> > +\\t{\\n> > +\\t\\tchar * value = field[arg ];\\n> > +\\t\\tchar * units = field[arg+1];\\n> > +\\n> > +\\t\\t/*\\n> > +\\t\\t * The value part must be a number.\\n> > +\\t\\t */\\n> > +\\t\\tif (ftype[arg] != DTK_NUMBER)\\n> > +\\t\\t\\treturn -1;\\n> > +\\n> > +\\t\\t/*\\n> > +\\t\\t * extract the number, almost exactly like the non-ISO interval.\\n> > +\\t\\t */\\n> > +\\t\\tval = strtol(value, &cp, 10);\\n> > +\\n> > +\\t\\t/*\\n> > +\\t\\t * One difference from the normal postgresql interval below...\\n> > +\\t\\t * ISO 8601 states that \\\"Of these, the comma is the preferred\\n> > +\\t\\t * sign\\\" so I allow it here for locales that support it.\\n> > +\\t\\t * Note: Perhaps the old-style interval code below should\\n> > +\\t\\t * allow for this too, but I didn't want to risk backward\\n> > +\\t\\t * compatability.\\n> > +\\t\\t */\\n> > +\\t\\tif (*cp == '.' || *cp == ',')\\n> > +\\t\\t{\\n> > +\\t\\t\\tfval = strtod(cp, &cp);\\n> > +\\t\\t\\tif (*cp != '\\\\0')\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\treturn -1;\\n> > +\\n> > +\\t\\t\\tif (val < 0)\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\tfval = -(fval);\\n> > +\\t\\t}\\n> > +\\t\\telse if (*cp == '\\\\0')\\n> > +\\t\\t\\tfval = 0;\\n> > +\\t\\telse\\n> > +\\t\\t\\treturn -1;\\n> > +\\n> > +\\n> > +\\t\\tif (datepart)\\n> > +\\t\\t{\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t/*\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t * All the 8601 unit specifiers are 1 character, but may\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t * be followed by a 'T' character if transitioning between\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t * the date part and the time part. If it's not either\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t * one character or two characters with the second being 't'\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t * it's an error.\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t */\\n> > +\\t\\t\\tif (!(units[1] == 0 || (units[1] == 't' && units[2] == 0)))\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\treturn -1;\\n> > +\\n> > +\\t\\t\\tif (units[1] == 't')\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\tdatepart = 0;\\n> > +\\n> > +\\t\\t\\tswitch (units[0]) /* Y M D W */\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t{\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\tcase 'd':\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttm->tm_mday += val;\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tif (fval != 0)\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t adjust_fval(fval,tm,fsec, 86400);\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttmask = ((fmask & DTK_M(DAY)) ? 0 : DTK_M(DAY));\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tbreak;\\n> > +\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\tcase 'w':\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttm->tm_mday += val * 7;\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tif (fval != 0)\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t adjust_fval(fval,tm,fsec,7 * 86400);\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttmask = ((fmask & DTK_M(DAY)) ? 0 : DTK_M(DAY));\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tbreak;\\n> > +\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\tcase 'm':\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttm->tm_mon += val;\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tif (fval != 0)\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t adjust_fval(fval,tm,fsec,30 * 86400);\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttmask = DTK_M(MONTH);\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tbreak;\\n> > +\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\tcase 'y':\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t/*\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t * Why can fractional months produce seconds,\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t * but fractional years can't? Well the older\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t * interval code below has the same property\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t * so this one follows the other one too.\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t */\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttm->tm_year += val;\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tif (fval != 0)\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttm->tm_mon += (fval * 12);\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttmask = ((fmask & DTK_M(YEAR)) ? 0 : DTK_M(YEAR));\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tbreak;\\n> > +\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\tdefault:\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\treturn -1; /* invald date unit prefix */\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t}\\n> > +\\t\\t}\\n> > +\\t\\telse\\n> > +\\t\\t{\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t/*\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t * ISO 8601 time part.\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t * In the time part, only one-character\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t * unit prefixes are allowed. If it's more\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t * than one character, it's not a valid ISO 8601\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t * time interval by duration.\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t */\\n> > +\\t\\t\\tif (units[1] != 0)\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\treturn -1;\\n> > +\\n> > +\\t\\t\\tswitch (units[0]) /* H M S */\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t{\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\tcase 's':\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttm->tm_sec += val;\\n> > +#ifdef HAVE_INT64_TIMESTAMP\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t*fsec += (fval * 1000000);\\n> > +#else\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t*fsec += fval;\\n> > +#endif\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttmask = DTK_M(SECOND);\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tbreak;\\n> > +\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\tcase 'm':\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttm->tm_min += val;\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tif (fval != 0)\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t adjust_fval(fval,tm,fsec,60);\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttmask = DTK_M(MINUTE);\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tbreak;\\n> > +\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\tcase 'h':\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttm->tm_hour += val;\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tif (fval != 0)\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t adjust_fval(fval,tm,fsec,3600);\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttmask = DTK_M(HOUR);\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tbreak;\\n> > +\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\tdefault:\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\t\\treturn -1; /* invald time unit prefix */\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t}\\n> > +\\t\\t}\\n> > +\\t\\tfmask |= tmask;\\n> > +\\t}\\n> > +\\n> > +\\tif (*fsec != 0)\\n> > +\\t{\\n> > +\\t\\tint\\t\\t\\tsec;\\n> > +\\n> > +#ifdef HAVE_INT64_TIMESTAMP\\n> > +\\t\\tsec = (*fsec / INT64CONST(1000000));\\n> > +\\t\\t*fsec -= (sec * INT64CONST(1000000));\\n> > +#else\\n> > +\\t\\tTMODULO(*fsec, sec, 1e0);\\n> > +#endif\\n> > +\\t\\ttm->tm_sec += sec;\\n> > +\\t}\\n> > +\\treturn (fmask != 0) ? 0 : -1;\\n> > +}\\n> > +\\n> > +\\n> > /* DecodeInterval()\\n> > * Interpret previously parsed fields for general time interval.\\n> > * Returns 0 if successful, DTERR code if bogus input detected.\\n> > *\\n> > * Allow \\\"date\\\" field DTK_DATE since this could be just\\n> > *\\tan unsigned floating point number. - thomas 1997-11-16\\n> > *\\n> > * Allow ISO-style time span, with implicit units on number of days\\n> > *\\tpreceding an hh:mm:ss field. - thomas 1998-04-30\\n> > + *\\n> > + * Allow ISO-8601 style \\\"Representation of time-interval by duration only\\\"\\n> > + * of the format 'PnYnMnDTnHnMnS' and 'PnW' - ron 2003-08-30\\n> > */\\n> > +\\n> > int\\n> > DecodeInterval(char **field, int *ftype, int nf, int *dtype, struct tm * tm, fsec_t *fsec)\\n> > {\\n> > \\tint\\t\\t\\tis_before = FALSE;\\n> > \\tchar\\t *cp;\\n> > \\tint\\t\\t\\tfmask = 0,\\n> > \\t\\t\\t\\ttmask,\\n> > \\t\\t\\t\\ttype;\\n> > \\tint\\t\\t\\ti;\\n> > \\tint\\t\\t\\tdterr;\\n> > @@ -2906,20 +3148,37 @@\\n> >\\n> > \\ttype = IGNORE_DTF;\\n> > \\ttm->tm_year = 0;\\n> > \\ttm->tm_mon = 0;\\n> > \\ttm->tm_mday = 0;\\n> > \\ttm->tm_hour = 0;\\n> > \\ttm->tm_min = 0;\\n> > \\ttm->tm_sec = 0;\\n> > \\t*fsec = 0;\\n> >\\n> > +\\t/*\\n> > +\\t * Check if it's a ISO 8601 Section 5.5.4.2 \\\"Representation of\\n> > + * time-interval by duration only.\\\"\\n> > +\\t * Basic extended format: PnYnMnDTnHnMnS\\n> > +\\t * PnW\\n> > +\\t * http://www.astroclark.freeserve.co.uk/iso8601/index.html\\n> > +\\t * ftp://ftp.qsl.net/pub/g1smd/154N362_.PDF\\n> > +\\t * Examples: P1D for 1 day\\n> > +\\t * PT1H for 1 hour\\n> > +\\t * P2Y6M7DT1H30M for 2 years, 6 months, 7 days 1 hour 30 min\\n> > +\\t *\\n> > +\\t * The first field is exactly \\\"p\\\" or \\\"pt\\\" it may be of this type.\\n> > +\\t */\\n> > +\\tif (DecodeISO8601Interval(field,ftype,nf,dtype,tm,fsec) == 0) {\\n> > +\\t return 0;\\n> > + }\\n> > +\\n> > \\t/* read through list backwards to pick up units before values */\\n> > \\tfor (i = nf - 1; i >= 0; i--)\\n> > \\t{\\n> > \\t\\tswitch (ftype[i])\\n> > \\t\\t{\\n> > \\t\\t\\tcase DTK_TIME:\\n> > \\t\\t\\t\\tdterr = DecodeTime(field[i], fmask, &tmask, tm, fsec);\\n> > \\t\\t\\t\\tif (dterr)\\n> > \\t\\t\\t\\t\\treturn dterr;\\n> > \\t\\t\\t\\ttype = DTK_DAY;\\n> > @@ -2983,20 +3242,21 @@\\n> > \\t\\t\\t\\t}\\n> > \\t\\t\\t\\t/* DROP THROUGH */\\n> >\\n> > \\t\\t\\tcase DTK_DATE:\\n> > \\t\\t\\tcase DTK_NUMBER:\\n> > \\t\\t\\t\\tval = strtol(field[i], &cp, 10);\\n> >\\n> > \\t\\t\\t\\tif (type == IGNORE_DTF)\\n> > \\t\\t\\t\\t\\ttype = DTK_SECOND;\\n> >\\n> > +\\t\\t\\t\\t/* should this allow ',' for locales that use it ? */\\n> > \\t\\t\\t\\tif (*cp == '.')\\n> > \\t\\t\\t\\t{\\n> > \\t\\t\\t\\t\\tfval = strtod(cp, &cp);\\n> > \\t\\t\\t\\t\\tif (*cp != '\\\\0')\\n> > \\t\\t\\t\\t\\t\\treturn DTERR_BAD_FORMAT;\\n> >\\n> > \\t\\t\\t\\t\\tif (val < 0)\\n> > \\t\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tfval = -(fval);\\n> > \\t\\t\\t\\t}\\n> > \\t\\t\\t\\telse if (*cp == '\\\\0')\\n> >\\n> > ===================================================================\\n> >\\n> > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------\\n> > TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives?\\n> >\\n> > http://archives.postgresql.org\\n> >\\n>\\n>\\n\\n-- \\nPeter Eisentraut peter_e@gmx.net\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:20:21 +0100 (CET)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: ISO 8601 \\\"Time Intervals\\\" of the \\\"format with time-unit\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Peter Eisentraut wrote:\\n> Bruce Momjian writes:\\n> \\n> > Is this ready for application? It looks good to me. However, there is\\n> > an \\\"Open issues\\\" section.\\n> \\n> It would be more useful to implement the SQL standard for intervals first\\n> instead of inventing more nonstandard formats for it.\\n\\nOK, patch removed from queue.\\n\\n-- \\n Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us\\n pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001\\n + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road\\n + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:12:35 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: ISO 8601 \\\"Time Intervals\\\" of the \\\"format with time-unit\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> -----Original Message-----\\n> \\n> Is this ready for application? It looks good to me. However, there is\\n> an \\\"Open issues\\\" section.\\n\\nIn my mind there were two categories of open issues\\n a) ones that are 100% backward (such as the comment about \\n outputting this format)\\nand\\n b) ones that aren't (such as deprecating the current\\n postgresql shorthand of \\n '1Y1M'::interval = 1 year 1 minute\\n in favor of the ISO-8601\\n 'P1Y1M'::interval = 1 year 1 month.\\n\\nAttached is a patch that addressed all the discussed issues that\\ndid not break backward compatability, including the ability to\\noutput ISO-8601 compliant intervals by setting datestyle to\\niso8601basic.\\n\\n Ron\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 1 Dec 2003 12:50:47 -0800\",\n \"msg_from\": \"\\\"Ron Mayer\\\" <ron@intervideo.com>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: ISO 8601 \\\"Time Intervals\\\" of the \\\"format with time-unit\\n\\tdeignators\\\"\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Peter wrote:\\n> \\n> It would be more useful to implement the SQL standard for intervals first\\n> instead of inventing more nonstandard formats for it.\\n\\nMuch of the postgresql docs talks about ISO-8601 formats, so I would think\\nof the patch more as a standards-based improvemnt for the current interval \\nshortand. \\n\\nFor example, where today postgresql accepts \\\"1Y1M\\\" as '1 year 1 minute',\\nwith the patch, the ISO-8601-standard \\\"P1Y1M\\\" would mean '1 year 1 month'.\\n\\nI would be happy to implement the SQL-standard-intervals as well if \\nsomeone can point me to that spec. It's just that the system I worked\\nwith happend to exchange data with ISO8601 time intervals.\\n\\n Ron Mayer\\n\\n[Moderators of psql-patches... I first replied to Peter from a\\nseparate (personal) account. I think this reply is now in the \\nmoderation queue). In retrospect I thought it might be better if \\nthe archives had the whole thread from the original email address. \\nIf it's not too late, could you reject my post in the moderation queue?\\nIf not, sorry for the spam.]\\n\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:18:20 -0800\",\n \"msg_from\": \"\\\"Ron Mayer\\\" <ron@intervideo.com>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: ISO 8601 \\\"Time Intervals\\\" of the \\\"format with time-unit\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"[sNip]\\n> ISO 8601 gives more specific names.\\n> \\n> ISO 8601 Basic Format: P2Y10M15DT10H20M30S\\n> ISO 8601 Alternative Format: P00021015T102030\\n> ISO 8601 Extended Format: P0002-10-15T10:20:30\\n> \\n> In a way, the Extended Format is kinda nice, since it�s\\n> almost human readable.\\n> \\n> I could put in both the basic and extended ones, and\\n> call the dateformats �iso8601basic� and �iso8601extended�.\\n> The negative is that to do �iso8601basic� right, I�d also\\n> have to tweak the �date� and �time� parts of the code too.\\n\\n \\tPerhaps all three formats should be supported, and if the following \\nnames were all valid things could be simplified further too:\\n\\n \\t \\tiso8601basic\\n \\t \\tiso8601bas\\n \\t \\tiso8601alternative\\n \\t \\tiso8601alt\\n \\t \\tiso8601extended\\n \\t \\tiso8601ext\\n\\n \\tThe reason for allowing shorter names is to simplify database \\nmanagement for anyone who may need to store the format name in a column for \\nsome reason (I can't think of one now, but I get a feeling that someone \\nwill want to do this type of thing in the future).\\n\\n \\tFor that matter, the first letter could be used instead of the first \\nthree for the short versions. Any thoughts on this?\\n\\n-- \\nRandolf Richardson - rr@8x.ca\\nVancouver, British Columbia, Canada\\n\\nPlease do not eMail me directly when responding\\nto my postings in the newsgroups.\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:20:23 +0000 (UTC)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Randolf Richardson <rr@8x.ca>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: ISO 8601 'Time Intervals' of the 'format with time-unit\\n\\tdeignators'\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Randolf Richardson wrote:\\n> [sNip]\\n> > ISO 8601 gives more specific names.\\n> > \\n> > ISO 8601 Basic Format: P2Y10M15DT10H20M30S\\n> > ISO 8601 Alternative Format: P00021015T102030\\n> > ISO 8601 Extended Format: P0002-10-15T10:20:30\\n> > \\n> > In a way, the Extended Format is kinda nice, since it�s\\n> > almost human readable.\\n> > \\n> > I could put in both the basic and extended ones, and\\n> > call the dateformats �iso8601basic� and �iso8601extended�.\\n> > The negative is that to do �iso8601basic� right, I�d also\\n> > have to tweak the �date� and �time� parts of the code too.\\n> \\n> \\tPerhaps all three formats should be supported, and if the following \\n> names were all valid things could be simplified further too:\\n> \\n> \\t \\tiso8601basic\\n> \\t \\tiso8601bas\\n> \\t \\tiso8601alternative\\n> \\t \\tiso8601alt\\n> \\t \\tiso8601extended\\n> \\t \\tiso8601ext\\n> \\n> \\tThe reason for allowing shorter names is to simplify database \\n> management for anyone who may need to store the format name in a column for \\n> some reason (I can't think of one now, but I get a feeling that someone \\n> will want to do this type of thing in the future).\\n> \\n> \\tFor that matter, the first letter could be used instead of the first \\n> three for the short versions. Any thoughts on this?\\n\\nJust go with the full spellings.\\n\\n\\n-- \\n Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us\\n pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001\\n + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road\\n + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 9 Dec 2003 18:28:20 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: ISO 8601 'Time Intervals' of the 'format with time-unit\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\nYour patch has been added to the PostgreSQL unapplied patches list at:\\n\\n\\thttp://momjian.postgresql.org/cgi-bin/pgpatches\\n\\nI will try to apply it within the next 48 hours.\\n\\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------\\n\\n\\nRon Mayer wrote:\\n> > -----Original Message-----\\n> > \\n> > Is this ready for application? It looks good to me. However, there is\\n> > an \\\"Open issues\\\" section.\\n> \\n> In my mind there were two categories of open issues\\n> a) ones that are 100% backward (such as the comment about \\n> outputting this format)\\n> and\\n> b) ones that aren't (such as deprecating the current\\n> postgresql shorthand of \\n> '1Y1M'::interval = 1 year 1 minute\\n> in favor of the ISO-8601\\n> 'P1Y1M'::interval = 1 year 1 month.\\n> \\n> Attached is a patch that addressed all the discussed issues that\\n> did not break backward compatability, including the ability to\\n> output ISO-8601 compliant intervals by setting datestyle to\\n> iso8601basic.\\n> \\n> Ron\\n\\n[ Attachment, skipping... ]\\n\\n> \\n> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------\\n> TIP 8: explain analyze is your friend\\n\\n-- \\n Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us\\n pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001\\n + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road\\n + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 15 Dec 2003 18:30:09 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: ISO 8601 \\\"Time Intervals\\\" of the \\\"format with time-unit\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Bruce Momjian wrote:\\n> Your patch has been added to the PostgreSQL unapplied patches list\\n> at:\\n>\\n> \\thttp://momjian.postgresql.org/cgi-bin/pgpatches\\n>\\n> I will try to apply it within the next 48 hours.\\n\\nI keep reading about open issues, and deprecating certain things, and \\npatch removed, and patch readded. What is going on?\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 16 Dec 2003 01:06:32 +0100\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: ISO 8601 \\\"Time Intervals\\\" of the \\\"format with time-unit\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Peter Eisentraut wrote:\\n> Bruce Momjian wrote:\\n> > Your patch has been added to the PostgreSQL unapplied patches list\\n> > at:\\n> >\\n> > \\thttp://momjian.postgresql.org/cgi-bin/pgpatches\\n> >\\n> > I will try to apply it within the next 48 hours.\\n> \\n> I keep reading about open issues, and deprecating certain things, and \\n> patch removed, and patch readded. What is going on?\\n\\nI think the patch just added is OK, no?\\n\\n-- \\n Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us\\n pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001\\n + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road\\n + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 15 Dec 2003 19:09:15 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: ISO 8601 \\\"Time Intervals\\\" of the \\\"format with time-unit\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Bruce Momjian wrote:\\n> > I keep reading about open issues, and deprecating certain things,\\n> > and patch removed, and patch readded. What is going on?\\n>\\n> I think the patch just added is OK, no?\\n\\nI don't know, but earlier the identical patch was rejected by you.\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 16 Dec 2003 01:37:50 +0100\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: ISO 8601 \\\"Time Intervals\\\" of the \\\"format with time-unit\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Peter Eisentraut wrote:\\n> Bruce Momjian wrote:\\n> > > I keep reading about open issues, and deprecating certain things,\\n> > > and patch removed, and patch readded. What is going on?\\n> >\\n> > I think the patch just added is OK, no?\\n> \\n> I don't know, but earlier the identical patch was rejected by you.\\n\\nI thought he made an adjustment so no backward compatibility was broken.\\n\\n\\n-- \\n Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us\\n pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001\\n + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road\\n + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 15 Dec 2003 19:39:00 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: ISO 8601 \\\"Time Intervals\\\" of the \\\"format with time-unit\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Bruce Momjian wrote:\\n> Peter Eisentraut wrote:\\n> > Bruce Momjian wrote:\\n> > > > I keep reading about open issues, and deprecating certain\\n> > > > things, and patch removed, and patch readded. What is going\\n> > > > on?\\n> > >\\n> > > I think the patch just added is OK, no?\\n> >\\n> > I don't know, but earlier the identical patch was rejected by you.\\n>\\n> I thought he made an adjustment so no backward compatibility was\\n> broken.\\n\\nThen I wouldn't have said \\\"identical\\\".\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 16 Dec 2003 01:42:09 +0100\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: ISO 8601 \\\"Time Intervals\\\" of the \\\"format with time-unit\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Peter Eisentraut wrote:\\n> Bruce Momjian wrote:\\n> > Peter Eisentraut wrote:\\n> > > Bruce Momjian wrote:\\n> > > > > I keep reading about open issues, and deprecating certain\\n> > > > > things, and patch removed, and patch readded. What is going\\n> > > > > on?\\n> > > >\\n> > > > I think the patch just added is OK, no?\\n> > >\\n> > > I don't know, but earlier the identical patch was rejected by you.\\n> >\\n> > I thought he made an adjustment so no backward compatibility was\\n> > broken.\\n> \\n> Then I wouldn't have said \\\"identical\\\".\\n\\nOK, can anyone raise an objection to the patch. The new description\\nmeans to me that he addressed our concerns and that my original\\nhesitation was unwarranted.\\n\\n-- \\n Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us\\n pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001\\n + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road\\n + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 15 Dec 2003 19:44:11 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: ISO 8601 \\\"Time Intervals\\\" of the \\\"format with time-unit\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\nPatch applied. Thanks.\\n\\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------\\n\\n\\nRon Mayer wrote:\\n> > -----Original Message-----\\n> > \\n> > Is this ready for application? It looks good to me. However, there is\\n> > an \\\"Open issues\\\" section.\\n> \\n> In my mind there were two categories of open issues\\n> a) ones that are 100% backward (such as the comment about \\n> outputting this format)\\n> and\\n> b) ones that aren't (such as deprecating the current\\n> postgresql shorthand of \\n> '1Y1M'::interval = 1 year 1 minute\\n> in favor of the ISO-8601\\n> 'P1Y1M'::interval = 1 year 1 month.\\n> \\n> Attached is a patch that addressed all the discussed issues that\\n> did not break backward compatability, including the ability to\\n> output ISO-8601 compliant intervals by setting datestyle to\\n> iso8601basic.\\n> \\n> Ron\\n\\n[ Attachment, skipping... ]\\n\\n> \\n> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------\\n> TIP 8: explain analyze is your friend\\n\\n-- \\n Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us\\n pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001\\n + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road\\n + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sat, 20 Dec 2003 10:32:45 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: ISO 8601 \\\"Time Intervals\\\" of the \\\"format with time-unit\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Hello,\\n\\nIs there ANY chance to recover data from a database system that suffered disk \\ncrash, and is not missing the data/global directory?\\n\\nVersion is 7.2.4. Database files seem to be intact as well as pg_clog and \\npg_xlog directories.\\n\\nThanks in advance for any ideas.\\n\\nDaniel\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 23 Aug 2004 16:00:01 +0300\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Daniel Kalchev <daniel@digsys.bg>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"missing data/global\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Daniel Kalchev <daniel@digsys.bg> writes:\\n> Is there ANY chance to recover data from a database system that suffered disk\\n> crash, and is not missing the data/global directory?\\n> Version is 7.2.4. Database files seem to be intact as well as pg_clog and \\n> pg_xlog directories.\\n\\nThe hard part I think would be reconstructing pg_database, because you'd\\nneed to get the database OIDs right. I can't think of any way to do\\nthat that doesn't involve poking at the file with a hex editor.\\n\\nHere's a sketch of how I'd proceed:\\n\\n1. Make a tar backup of what you have! That way you can start over\\nafter you screw up ;-)\\n\\n2. I assume you know the names and properties of your databases, users,\\nand groups if any; also the SYSID numbers for the users and groups.\\nA recent pg_dumpall script would be a good place to get this info.\\n\\n3. You're also going to need to figure out the OIDs of your databases\\n(the OIDs are the same as the names of their subdirectories under\\n$PGDATA/base). Possibly you can do this just from directory/file sizes.\\nNote that template1 should be OID 1, and template0 will have the next\\nlowest number (probably 16555, in 7.2).\\n\\n4. Initdb a scratch database in some other place (or move aside your\\nexisting files, if that seems safer). In this scratch DB, create\\ndatabases, users, and groups to match your old setup. You should be\\nable to duplicate everything except the database OIDs using standard\\nSQL commands.\\n\\n5. Shut down scratch postmaster, then hex-edit pg_database to insert the\\ncorrect OIDs. Use pg_filedump or a similar tool to verify that you did\\nthis properly.\\n\\n6. Restart scratch postmaster, and VACUUM FREEZE pg_database, pg_shadow,\\nand pg_group (from any database). This will make the next step safe.\\n\\n7. Stop scratch postmaster, and then copy over its $PGDATA/global\\ndirectory into the old DB.\\n\\n8. Cross your fingers and start postmaster ...\\n\\nThis will probably *not* work if you had been doing anything to\\npg_database, pg_shadow, or pg_group between your last checkpoint and the\\ncrash, because the reconstructed tables are not going to be physically\\nidentical to what they were before, so any actions replayed from WAL\\nagainst those tables will be wrong. Hopefully you won't have that\\nproblem. If you do, it might work to shut down the postmaster and again\\ncopy the scratch $PGDATA/global directory into the old DB, thereby\\noverwriting what the WAL replay did. This is getting into the realm of\\nspeculation though.\\n\\n\\t\\t\\tregards, tom lane\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 23 Aug 2004 14:46:17 -0400\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: missing data/global \"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Tom,\\n\\nThis is basically what I had in mind, but you described it better than I ever \\ncould :)\\n\\nWhat I need from this database system is just one database and probably not \\nall of the tables anyway (but some do seem valuable). This database happens to \\nbe second in the pg_dumpall script. The next databases are rather big (and I \\nactually have more recent backup and could eventually recreate the data) The \\nvaluable database hasn't had significant structure changes since the backup.\\n\\nLooking at the files, I am confident which is the proper database oid - if \\nthis cannot be properly fixed, is there .. reasonable way to dump data from \\nthe (heap) files?\\n\\nHere is what I have:\\n\\nsu-2.02# du\\n1747 ./base/1\\n1693 ./base/16555\\n1 ./base/77573557/pgsql_tmp\\n127036 ./base/77573557\\n1 ./base/13255137/pgsql_tmp\\n1379190 ./base/13255137\\n11246 ./base/95521309\\n1781 ./base/96388007\\n1 ./base/133512058/pgsql_tmp\\n11933861 ./base/133512058\\n13456555 ./base\\n98209 ./pg_xlog\\n41315 ./pg_clog\\n13596100 .\\n\\nMy database should be with oid 77573557, template0 is apparently 16555\\n\\nLet's see how all this works.\\n\\nDaniel\\n\\n>>>Tom Lane said:\\n > Daniel Kalchev <daniel@digsys.bg> writes:\\n > > Is there ANY chance to recover data from a database system that suffered d\\n isk\\n > > crash, and is not missing the data/global directory?\\n > > Version is 7.2.4. Database files seem to be intact as well as pg_clog and \\n > > pg_xlog directories.\\n > \\n > The hard part I think would be reconstructing pg_database, because you'd\\n > need to get the database OIDs right. I can't think of any way to do\\n > that that doesn't involve poking at the file with a hex editor.\\n > \\n > Here's a sketch of how I'd proceed:\\n > \\n > 1. Make a tar backup of what you have! That way you can start over\\n > after you screw up ;-)\\n > \\n > 2. I assume you know the names and properties of your databases, users,\\n > and groups if any; also the SYSID numbers for the users and groups.\\n > A recent pg_dumpall script would be a good place to get this info.\\n > \\n > 3. You're also going to need to figure out the OIDs of your databases\\n > (the OIDs are the same as the names of their subdirectories under\\n > $PGDATA/base). Possibly you can do this just from directory/file sizes.\\n > Note that template1 should be OID 1, and template0 will have the next\\n > lowest number (probably 16555, in 7.2).\\n > \\n > 4. Initdb a scratch database in some other place (or move aside your\\n > existing files, if that seems safer). In this scratch DB, create\\n > databases, users, and groups to match your old setup. You should be\\n > able to duplicate everything except the database OIDs using standard\\n > SQL commands.\\n > \\n > 5. Shut down scratch postmaster, then hex-edit pg_database to insert the\\n > correct OIDs. Use pg_filedump or a similar tool to verify that you did\\n > this properly.\\n > \\n > 6. Restart scratch postmaster, and VACUUM FREEZE pg_database, pg_shadow,\\n > and pg_group (from any database). This will make the next step safe.\\n > \\n > 7. Stop scratch postmaster, and then copy over its $PGDATA/global\\n > directory into the old DB.\\n > \\n > 8. Cross your fingers and start postmaster ...\\n > \\n > This will probably *not* work if you had been doing anything to\\n > pg_database, pg_shadow, or pg_group between your last checkpoint and the\\n > crash, because the reconstructed tables are not going to be physically\\n > identical to what they were before, so any actions replayed from WAL\\n > against those tables will be wrong. Hopefully you won't have that\\n > problem. If you do, it might work to shut down the postmaster and again\\n > copy the scratch $PGDATA/global directory into the old DB, thereby\\n > overwriting what the WAL replay did. This is getting into the realm of\\n > speculation though.\\n > \\n > \\t\\t\\tregards, tom lane\\n\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 23 Aug 2004 23:02:49 +0300\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Daniel Kalchev <daniel@digsys.bg>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: missing data/global \"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"If you're not missing your data dir, clog or xlog then what's the problem?\\n\\nDaniel Kalchev wrote:\\n> Hello,\\n> \\n> Is there ANY chance to recover data from a database system that suffered disk \\n> crash, and is not missing the data/global directory?\\n> \\n> Version is 7.2.4. Database files seem to be intact as well as pg_clog and \\n> pg_xlog directories.\\n> \\n> Thanks in advance for any ideas.\\n> \\n> Daniel\\n> \\n> \\n> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------\\n> TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to majordomo@postgresql.org\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 24 Aug 2004 09:11:26 +0800\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Christopher Kings-Lynne <chriskl@familyhealth.com.au>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: missing data/global\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"data/base/global is missing and this is where postgres gets all it's startup \\ndata from (database oids, next oid, transaction id etc).\\n\\nLet's see how easy to recover from this it will turn to be.\\n\\nDaniel\\n\\n>>>Christopher Kings-Lynne said:\\n > If you're not missing your data dir, clog or xlog then what's the problem?\\n > \\n > Daniel Kalchev wrote:\\n > > Hello,\\n > > \\n > > Is there ANY chance to recover data from a database system that suffered d\\n isk \\n > > crash, and is not missing the data/global directory?\\n > > \\n > > Version is 7.2.4. Database files seem to be intact as well as pg_clog and \\n > > pg_xlog directories.\\n > > \\n > > Thanks in advance for any ideas.\\n > > \\n > > Daniel\\n > > \\n > > \\n > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------\\n > > TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to majordomo@postgresql.org\\n\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 24 Aug 2004 11:30:20 +0300\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Daniel Kalchev <daniel@digsys.bg>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: missing data/global \"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Ah, you said 'is NOT missing'.\\n\\nChris\\n\\nDaniel Kalchev wrote:\\n\\n> data/base/global is missing and this is where postgres gets all it's startup \\n> data from (database oids, next oid, transaction id etc).\\n> \\n> Let's see how easy to recover from this it will turn to be.\\n> \\n> Daniel\\n> \\n> \\n>>>>Christopher Kings-Lynne said:\\n> \\n> > If you're not missing your data dir, clog or xlog then what's the problem?\\n> > \\n> > Daniel Kalchev wrote:\\n> > > Hello,\\n> > > \\n> > > Is there ANY chance to recover data from a database system that suffered d\\n> isk \\n> > > crash, and is not missing the data/global directory?\\n> > > \\n> > > Version is 7.2.4. Database files seem to be intact as well as pg_clog and \\n> > > pg_xlog directories.\\n> > > \\n> > > Thanks in advance for any ideas.\\n> > > \\n> > > Daniel\\n> > > \\n> > > \\n> > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------\\n> > > TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to majordomo@postgresql.org\\n> \\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 24 Aug 2004 17:07:22 +0800\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Christopher Kings-Lynne <chriskl@familyhealth.com.au>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: missing data/global\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Tom I did the following:\\n\\n(found out 7.2.3 does not have pg_database)\\n\\n1. saved old data etc.\\n\\n2. created new database, and the database. database oid was 16556;\\n\\n3. moved data/global to the old data directory.\\n\\n4. though, that postmaster would actually use the database oid to locate the \\ndirectory, then load everything from there.. old database oid was 77573557, so \\nI just linked this to 16556 in the data/base direcotry. (this might be the \\nfirst possible error)\\n\\nNow I can connect to the 'old' database, but get the error \\n\\nFATAL 1: Index pg_operator_oid_index is not a btree\\n\\n(if I run postmaster with -P I get not errors, but no tables as well).\\n\\nBy the way, I had to copy over the 'new' files from pg_clog and pg_xlog (this \\nis the second possible error) to get the postmaster running. Perhaps better \\nwould be to use pg_resetxlog or similar?\\n\\nDaniel\\n\\n>>>Tom Lane said:\\n > Daniel Kalchev <daniel@digsys.bg> writes:\\n > > Is there ANY chance to recover data from a database system that suffered d\\n isk\\n > > crash, and is not missing the data/global directory?\\n > > Version is 7.2.4. Database files seem to be intact as well as pg_clog and \\n > > pg_xlog directories.\\n > \\n > The hard part I think would be reconstructing pg_database, because you'd\\n > need to get the database OIDs right. I can't think of any way to do\\n > that that doesn't involve poking at the file with a hex editor.\\n > \\n > Here's a sketch of how I'd proceed:\\n > \\n > 1. Make a tar backup of what you have! That way you can start over\\n > after you screw up ;-)\\n > \\n > 2. I assume you know the names and properties of your databases, users,\\n > and groups if any; also the SYSID numbers for the users and groups.\\n > A recent pg_dumpall script would be a good place to get this info.\\n > \\n > 3. You're also going to need to figure out the OIDs of your databases\\n > (the OIDs are the same as the names of their subdirectories under\\n > $PGDATA/base). Possibly you can do this just from directory/file sizes.\\n > Note that template1 should be OID 1, and template0 will have the next\\n > lowest number (probably 16555, in 7.2).\\n > \\n > 4. Initdb a scratch database in some other place (or move aside your\\n > existing files, if that seems safer). In this scratch DB, create\\n > databases, users, and groups to match your old setup. You should be\\n > able to duplicate everything except the database OIDs using standard\\n > SQL commands.\\n > \\n > 5. Shut down scratch postmaster, then hex-edit pg_database to insert the\\n > correct OIDs. Use pg_filedump or a similar tool to verify that you did\\n > this properly.\\n > \\n > 6. Restart scratch postmaster, and VACUUM FREEZE pg_database, pg_shadow,\\n > and pg_group (from any database). This will make the next step safe.\\n > \\n > 7. Stop scratch postmaster, and then copy over its $PGDATA/global\\n > directory into the old DB.\\n > \\n > 8. Cross your fingers and start postmaster ...\\n > \\n > This will probably *not* work if you had been doing anything to\\n > pg_database, pg_shadow, or pg_group between your last checkpoint and the\\n > crash, because the reconstructed tables are not going to be physically\\n > identical to what they were before, so any actions replayed from WAL\\n > against those tables will be wrong. Hopefully you won't have that\\n > problem. If you do, it might work to shut down the postmaster and again\\n > copy the scratch $PGDATA/global directory into the old DB, thereby\\n > overwriting what the WAL replay did. This is getting into the realm of\\n > speculation though.\\n > \\n > \\t\\t\\tregards, tom lane\\n > \\n > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------\\n > TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command\\n > (send \\\"unregister YourEmailAddressHere\\\" to majordomo@postgresql.org)\\n\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 24 Aug 2004 12:54:26 +0300\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Daniel Kalchev <daniel@digsys.bg>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: missing data/global \"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Daniel Kalchev <daniel@digsys.bg> writes:\\n> (found out 7.2.3 does not have pg_database)\\n\\nYou think not?\\n\\n> By the way, I had to copy over the 'new' files from pg_clog and pg_xlog (this\\n> is the second possible error) to get the postmaster running.\\n\\nThat was *not* part of the recipe, and is guaranteed *not* to work.\\n\\nIt seems likely though that you are wasting your time --- the index\\nfailure suggests strongly that you have more corruption than just the\\nloss of the /global subdirectory :-(\\n\\n\\t\\t\\tregards, tom lane\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 24 Aug 2004 10:43:41 -0400\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: missing data/global \"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \">>>Tom Lane said:\\n > Daniel Kalchev <daniel@digsys.bg> writes:\\n > > (found out 7.2.3 does not have pg_database)\\n > \\n > You think not?\\n\\nNot as a file similar to pg_control. pg_database is indeed table in the system \\ncatalog.\\n\\n > > By the way, I had to copy over the 'new' files from pg_clog and pg_xlog (t\\n his\\n > > is the second possible error) to get the postmaster running.\\n > \\n > That was *not* part of the recipe, and is guaranteed *not* to work.\\n\\nI know that, but wondered if it would help in any way.. By the way, what would \\nbe the solution to sync WAL with the pg_control contents?\\n\\n > \\n > It seems likely though that you are wasting your time --- the index\\n > failure suggests strongly that you have more corruption than just the\\n > loss of the /global subdirectory :-(\\n\\nAfter spending some time to find possible ways to adjust pointers (could \\neventually save part of the data), I decided to move to plan B, which is to \\nhave few people manually re-enter the data - would have been more effective to \\nwaste my time anyway - but not if it will take days and the result be not \\nguaranteed to be consistent.\\n\\nDoes such toll exist, that could dump data (records?) from the heap files \\ngiven the table structure?\\n\\nRegards,\\nDaniel\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Wed, 25 Aug 2004 19:07:23 +0300\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Daniel Kalchev <daniel@digsys.bg>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: missing data/global \"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"On Wed, Aug 25, 2004 at 07:07:23PM +0300, Daniel Kalchev wrote:\\n\\n> Does such toll exist, that could dump data (records?) from the heap files \\n> given the table structure?\\n\\nYou may want to check pg_filedump (from http://sources.redhat.com/rhdb\\nIIRC).\\n\\n(What happened to pg_fsck BTW?)\\n\\n-- \\nAlvaro Herrera (<alvherre[a]dcc.uchile.cl>)\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Wed, 25 Aug 2004 12:34:34 -0400\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@dcc.uchile.cl>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: missing data/global\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Coincidentally I JUST NOW built 8.0 on Solaris 9, and ran into the same\\nproblem. As they say, \\\"this used to work\\\"..... \\n\\nWe build databases as part of the build of our product, and I'm looking\\ninto what we need to do to upgrade from 7.4.5, and this was the first\\nthing I ran into. I hadn't gotten as far as truss yet, so thanks Kenneth\\nfor that extra info.\\n\\nDid initdb previously just assume the -D path existed, and now it is\\ntrying to create the whole path, if necessary?\\n\\n- DAP\\n\\n>-----Original Message-----\\n>From: pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org \\n>[mailto:pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org] On Behalf Of Kenneth Lareau\\n>Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 5:23 PM\\n>To: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org\\n>Subject: [HACKERS] Strange issue with initdb on 8.0 and \\n>Solaris automounts\\n>\\n>Folks,\\n>\\n>I ran into an interesting issue when installing PostgreSQL 8.0 \\n>that I'm not sure how to resolve correctly. My system is a \\n>Sun machine (Blade\\n>1000) running Solaris 9, with relatively recent patches. After \\n>install- ing 8.0, I went to run the 'initdb' command and was \\n>greeted with the\\n>following:\\n>\\n>[delirium:postgres] ~\\n>(11) initdb -D /software/postgresql-8.0.0/data The files \\n>belonging to this database system will be owned by user \\\"postgres\\\".\\n>This user must also own the server process.\\n>\\n>The database cluster will be initialized with locale C.\\n>\\n>creating directory /software/postgresql-8.0.0/data ... initdb: \\n>could not create directory \\\"/software/postgresql-8.0.0\\\": \\n>Operation not applicable\\n>\\n>\\n>The error message was a bit confusing, so I decided to run a \\n>truss on the process to see what might be happening, and this \\n>is what I came\\n>across:\\n>\\n>[...]\\n>8802/1: write(1, \\\" c r e a t i n g d i r\\\".., 62) = 62\\n>8802/1: umask(0) = 077\\n>8802/1: umask(077) = 0\\n>8802/1: mkdir(\\\"/software\\\", 0777) \\n> Err#17 EEXIST\\n>8802/1: stat64(\\\"/software\\\", 0xFFBFC858) = 0\\n>8802/1: mkdir(\\\"/software/postgresql-8.0.0\\\", 0777) \\n> Err#89 ENOSYS\\n>[...]\\n>\\n>\\n>The last error in that section, ENOSYS, is very strange, as \\n>the Solaris manpage for 'mkdir' does not mention it as a \\n>possible error. One thing to note in this, however, is that \\n>'/software/postgresql-8.0.0' is not a regular directory, but \\n>an automount point (which in this case is just a local \\n>loopback mount). So the indication is that Solaris seems to \\n>have a bug not in mkdir, but deeper in their VFS code that's \\n>causing this seemingly strange issue.\\n>\\n>Two workarounds for this problem have been found: running \\n>'initdb' with a directory that's *not* an automount point and \\n>then moving the 'data'\\n>directory to its final destination worked fine, along with a \\n>suggestion from Andrew Dunstan (on the #postgresql IRC \\n>channel) with using a rela- tive path for the data directory. \\n>Both were successful in avoiding the issue, but I decided to \\n>mention this here in case someone felt it might be worth \\n>looking into to see if the Sun problem can be avoided; I am \\n>going to notify Sun of their bug, just don't know how long it \\n>will take them to actually resolve it (if they ever do).\\n>\\n>While I can fully understand that a code change here may not \\n>be desire- able, might some notes in the documentation be \\n>useful for those who might stumble across the problem as well? \\n> Just a suggestion...\\n>\\n>I hope I gave sufficient information on the problem, though \\n>I'm always willing to give any clarification needed. Thank \\n>you for your time.\\n>\\n>\\n>Ken Lareau\\n>elessar@numenor.org\\n>\\n>---------------------------(end of \\n>broadcast)---------------------------\\n>TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives?\\n>\\n> http://archives.postgresql.org\\n>\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Thu, 27 Jan 2005 17:49:37 -0500\",\n \"msg_from\": \"\\\"David Parker\\\" <dparker@tazznetworks.com>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: Strange issue with initdb on 8.0 and Solaris automounts\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\\"David Parker\\\" <dparker@tazznetworks.com> writes:\\n> Did initdb previously just assume the -D path existed, and now it is\\n> trying to create the whole path, if necessary?\\n\\nPre-8.0 it was using mkdir(1), which might possibly contain some weird\\nworkaround for this case on Solaris.\\n\\nI suppose that manually creating the data directory before running\\ninitdb would also avoid this issue, since the mkdir(2) loop is only\\nentered if we don't find the directory in existence.\\n\\n\\t\\t\\tregards, tom lane\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Thu, 27 Jan 2005 18:22:18 -0500\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: Strange issue with initdb on 8.0 and Solaris automounts \"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"In message <21723.1106868138@sss.pgh.pa.us>, Tom Lane writes:\\n>\\\"David Parker\\\" <dparker@tazznetworks.com> writes:\\n>> Did initdb previously just assume the -D path existed, and now it is\\n>> trying to create the whole path, if necessary?\\n>\\n>Pre-8.0 it was using mkdir(1), which might possibly contain some weird\\n>workaround for this case on Solaris.\\n>\\n>I suppose that manually creating the data directory before running\\n>initdb would also avoid this issue, since the mkdir(2) loop is only\\n>entered if we don't find the directory in existence.\\n>\\n>\\t\\t\\tregards, tom lane\\n>\\n\\nActually, creating the 'data' directory first doesn't work either:\\n\\n[delirium:postgres] ~\\n(17) mkdir data\\n[delirium:postgres] ~\\n(18) initdb -D /software/postgresql-8.0.0/data\\nThe files belonging to this database system will be owned by user \\\"postgres\\\".\\nThis user must also own the server process.\\n\\nThe database cluster will be initialized with locale C.\\n\\nfixing permissions on existing directory /software/postgresql-8.0.0/data ... ok\\ncreating directory /software/postgresql-8.0.0/data/global ... initdb: could not create directory \\\"/software/postgresql-8.0.0\\\": Operation not applicable\\ninitdb: removing contents of data directory \\\"/software/postgresql-8.0.0/data\\\"\\n\\n\\nSince there's subdirectories that need to be created, it still runs into\\nthe problem. I don't know why the command 'mkdir' doesn't exhibit the\\nsame problem as the function 'mkdir', but running:\\n\\n mkdir /software/postgresql-8.0.0\\n\\nproduces the correct error \\\"File exists\\\" on my system. I suspect the\\n'mkdir' command probably checks to see if the directory exists first\\nbefore trying to create it, which avoids the problem.\\n\\n\\nKen Lareau\\nelessar@numenor.org\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Thu, 27 Jan 2005 15:35:41 -0800\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Kenneth Lareau <elessar@numenor.org>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: Strange issue with initdb on 8.0 and Solaris automounts\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Kenneth Lareau <elessar@numenor.org> writes:\\n> In message <21723.1106868138@sss.pgh.pa.us>, Tom Lane writes:\\n>> I suppose that manually creating the data directory before running\\n>> initdb would also avoid this issue, since the mkdir(2) loop is only\\n>> entered if we don't find the directory in existence.\\n\\n> Actually, creating the 'data' directory first doesn't work either:\\n\\nGood point.\\n\\n> I don't know why the command 'mkdir' doesn't exhibit the\\n> same problem as the function 'mkdir', but running:\\n\\n> mkdir /software/postgresql-8.0.0\\n\\n> produces the correct error \\\"File exists\\\" on my system.\\n\\nCould you truss that and see what it does? It would be a simple change\\nin initdb to make it stat before mkdir instead of after, but I'm not\\ntotally convinced that would fix the problem. If mkdir returns a funny\\nerror code then stat might as well ...\\n\\n\\t\\t\\tregards, tom lane\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Thu, 27 Jan 2005 18:50:48 -0500\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: Strange issue with initdb on 8.0 and Solaris automounts \"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"In message <22095.1106869848@sss.pgh.pa.us>, Tom Lane writes:\\n>Kenneth Lareau <elessar@numenor.org> writes:\\n>> In message <21723.1106868138@sss.pgh.pa.us>, Tom Lane writes:\\n>>> I suppose that manually creating the data directory before running\\n>>> initdb would also avoid this issue, since the mkdir(2) loop is only\\n>>> entered if we don't find the directory in existence.\\n>\\n>> Actually, creating the 'data' directory first doesn't work either:\\n>\\n>Good point.\\n>\\n>> I don't know why the command 'mkdir' doesn't exhibit the\\n>> same problem as the function 'mkdir', but running:\\n>\\n>> mkdir /software/postgresql-8.0.0\\n>\\n>> produces the correct error \\\"File exists\\\" on my system.\\n>\\n>Could you truss that and see what it does? It would be a simple change\\n>in initdb to make it stat before mkdir instead of after, but I'm not\\n>totally convinced that would fix the problem. If mkdir returns a funny\\n>error code then stat might as well ...\\n>\\n>\\t\\t\\tregards, tom lane\\n>\\n\\nHere's the relevant truss output from 'mkdir /software/postgresql-8.0.0'\\non my Solaris 9 system:\\n\\n10832: umask(0) = 077\\n10832: umask(077) = 0\\n10832: mkdir(\\\"/software/postgresql-8.0.0\\\", 0777) Err#89 ENOSYS\\n10832: stat64(\\\"/software/postgresql-8.0.0\\\", 0xFFBFFA38) = 0\\n10832: fstat64(2, 0xFFBFEB78) = 0\\n10832: write(2, \\\" m k d i r\\\", 5) = 5\\n10832: write(2, \\\" : \\\", 2) = 2\\n10832: write(2, \\\" c a n n o t c r e a t\\\".., 24) = 24\\n10832: write(2, \\\" ` / s o f t w a r e / p\\\".., 28) = 28\\n10832: write(2, \\\" : \\\", 2) = 2\\n10832: write(2, \\\" F i l e e x i s t s\\\", 11) = 11\\n10832: write(2, \\\"\\\\n\\\", 1) = 1\\n10832: _exit(1)\\n\\n\\nIt's doing the stat after the mkdir attempt it seems, and coming back\\nwith the correct response. Hmm, maybe I should look at the Solaris 8\\ncode for the mkdir command...\\n\\n\\nKen Lareau\\nelessar@numenor.org\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Thu, 27 Jan 2005 16:18:36 -0800\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Kenneth Lareau <elessar@numenor.org>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: Strange issue with initdb on 8.0 and Solaris automounts\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\n\\nTom Lane wrote:\\n\\n>>I don't know why the command 'mkdir' doesn't exhibit the\\n>>same problem as the function 'mkdir', but running:\\n>> \\n>>\\n>\\n> \\n>\\n>> mkdir /software/postgresql-8.0.0\\n>> \\n>>\\n>\\n> \\n>\\n>>produces the correct error \\\"File exists\\\" on my system.\\n>> \\n>>\\n>\\n>Could you truss that and see what it does? It would be a simple change\\n>in initdb to make it stat before mkdir instead of after, but I'm not\\n>totally convinced that would fix the problem. If mkdir returns a funny\\n>error code then stat might as well ...\\n>\\n>\\n> \\n>\\n\\nThere's also a tiny race condition, which I guess isn't worth worrying \\nabout.\\n\\nReturning ENOSYS is pretty bogus ...\\n\\ncheers\\n\\nandrew\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Thu, 27 Jan 2005 19:28:25 -0500\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Andrew Dunstan <andrew@dunslane.net>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: Strange issue with initdb on 8.0 and Solaris automounts\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Kenneth Lareau <elessar@numenor.org> writes:\\n> In message <22095.1106869848@sss.pgh.pa.us>, Tom Lane writes:\\n>> Could you truss that and see what it does?\\n\\n> Here's the relevant truss output from 'mkdir /software/postgresql-8.0.0'\\n> on my Solaris 9 system:\\n\\n> 10832: mkdir(\\\"/software/postgresql-8.0.0\\\", 0777) Err#89 ENOSYS\\n> 10832: stat64(\\\"/software/postgresql-8.0.0\\\", 0xFFBFFA38) = 0\\n\\n> It's doing the stat after the mkdir attempt it seems, and coming back\\n> with the correct response. Hmm, maybe I should look at the Solaris 8\\n> code for the mkdir command...\\n\\nWell, the important point is that the stat does succeed. I'm not going\\nto put in anything as specific as a check for ENOSYS, but it seems\\nreasonable to try the stat first and mkdir only if stat fails.\\nI've applied the attached patch.\\n\\n\\t\\t\\tregards, tom lane\\n\\n*** src/bin/initdb/initdb.c.orig\\tSat Jan 8 17:51:12 2005\\n--- src/bin/initdb/initdb.c\\tThu Jan 27 19:23:49 2005\\n***************\\n*** 476,481 ****\\n--- 476,484 ----\\n * this tries to build all the elements of a path to a directory a la mkdir -p\\n * we assume the path is in canonical form, i.e. uses / as the separator\\n * we also assume it isn't null.\\n+ *\\n+ * note that on failure, the path arg has been modified to show the particular\\n+ * directory level we had problems with.\\n */\\n static int\\n mkdir_p(char *path, mode_t omode)\\n***************\\n*** 544,573 ****\\n \\t\\t}\\n \\t\\tif (last)\\n \\t\\t\\t(void) umask(oumask);\\n! \\t\\tif (mkdir(path, last ? omode : S_IRWXU | S_IRWXG | S_IRWXO) < 0)\\n \\t\\t{\\n! \\t\\t\\tif (errno == EEXIST || errno == EISDIR)\\n! \\t\\t\\t{\\n! \\t\\t\\t\\tif (stat(path, &sb) < 0)\\n! \\t\\t\\t\\t{\\n! \\t\\t\\t\\t\\tretval = 1;\\n! \\t\\t\\t\\t\\tbreak;\\n! \\t\\t\\t\\t}\\n! \\t\\t\\t\\telse if (!S_ISDIR(sb.st_mode))\\n! \\t\\t\\t\\t{\\n! \\t\\t\\t\\t\\tif (last)\\n! \\t\\t\\t\\t\\t\\terrno = EEXIST;\\n! \\t\\t\\t\\t\\telse\\n! \\t\\t\\t\\t\\t\\terrno = ENOTDIR;\\n! \\t\\t\\t\\t\\tretval = 1;\\n! \\t\\t\\t\\t\\tbreak;\\n! \\t\\t\\t\\t}\\n! \\t\\t\\t}\\n! \\t\\t\\telse\\n \\t\\t\\t{\\n \\t\\t\\t\\tretval = 1;\\n \\t\\t\\t\\tbreak;\\n \\t\\t\\t}\\n \\t\\t}\\n \\t\\tif (!last)\\n \\t\\t\\t*p = '/';\\n--- 547,570 ----\\n \\t\\t}\\n \\t\\tif (last)\\n \\t\\t\\t(void) umask(oumask);\\n! \\n! \\t\\t/* check for pre-existing directory; ok if it's a parent */\\n! \\t\\tif (stat(path, &sb) == 0)\\n \\t\\t{\\n! \\t\\t\\tif (!S_ISDIR(sb.st_mode))\\n \\t\\t\\t{\\n+ \\t\\t\\t\\tif (last)\\n+ \\t\\t\\t\\t\\terrno = EEXIST;\\n+ \\t\\t\\t\\telse\\n+ \\t\\t\\t\\t\\terrno = ENOTDIR;\\n \\t\\t\\t\\tretval = 1;\\n \\t\\t\\t\\tbreak;\\n \\t\\t\\t}\\n+ \\t\\t}\\n+ \\t\\telse if (mkdir(path, last ? omode : S_IRWXU | S_IRWXG | S_IRWXO) < 0)\\n+ \\t\\t{\\n+ \\t\\t\\tretval = 1;\\n+ \\t\\t\\tbreak;\\n \\t\\t}\\n \\t\\tif (!last)\\n \\t\\t\\t*p = '/';\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Thu, 27 Jan 2005 19:37:33 -0500\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: Strange issue with initdb on 8.0 and Solaris automounts \"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Andrew Dunstan <andrew@dunslane.net> writes:\\n> There's also a tiny race condition, which I guess isn't worth worrying \\n> about.\\n\\nConsidering that we're not checking ownership or permissions of the\\nparent directories, I'd say not.\\n\\n\\t\\t\\tregards, tom lane\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Thu, 27 Jan 2005 19:39:59 -0500\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: Strange issue with initdb on 8.0 and Solaris automounts \"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"In message <22687.1106872653@sss.pgh.pa.us>, Tom Lane writes:\\n>Kenneth Lareau <elessar@numenor.org> writes:\\n>> In message <22095.1106869848@sss.pgh.pa.us>, Tom Lane writes:\\n>>> Could you truss that and see what it does?\\n>\\n>> Here's the relevant truss output from 'mkdir /software/postgresql-8.0.0'\\n>> on my Solaris 9 system:\\n>\\n>> 10832: mkdir(\\\"/software/postgresql-8.0.0\\\", 0777) Err#89 ENOSYS\\n>> 10832: stat64(\\\"/software/postgresql-8.0.0\\\", 0xFFBFFA38) = 0\\n>\\n>> It's doing the stat after the mkdir attempt it seems, and coming back\\n>> with the correct response. Hmm, maybe I should look at the Solaris 8\\n>> code for the mkdir command...\\n>\\n>Well, the important point is that the stat does succeed. I'm not going\\n>to put in anything as specific as a check for ENOSYS, but it seems\\n>reasonable to try the stat first and mkdir only if stat fails.\\n>I've applied the attached patch.\\n>\\n>\\t\\t\\tregards, tom lane\\n\\n\\nTom, thank you very much for the patch, it worked like a charm.\\n\\n\\nKen Lareau\\nelessar@numenor.org\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Thu, 27 Jan 2005 17:10:04 -0800\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Kenneth Lareau <elessar@numenor.org>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: Strange issue with initdb on 8.0 and Solaris automounts\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> My opinion is that this is a very bogus shortcut in the \\n> network datatype code. There are no cases outside the \\n> inet/cidr group where an operator doesn't exactly match its \\n> underlying function. (The whole business of inet and cidr \\n> being almost but not quite the same type is maldesigned\\n> anyway...)\\n> \\n> The right solution for you is to declare two SQL functions. \\n> Whether you make them point at the same underlying C code is \\n> up to you.\\n\\nRight,...\\n\\nIn that case may I suggest fixing the catalog so network_* functions exists for both datatypes!\\nAnything less I'd consider inconsistent...\\n\\nKind regards,\\n\\nJohn\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sun, 30 Jan 2005 13:46:34 +1100\",\n \"msg_from\": \"\\\"John Hansen\\\" <john@geeknet.com.au>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: Bug in create operator and/or initdb \"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\\"John Hansen\\\" <john@geeknet.com.au> writes:\\n> In that case may I suggest fixing the catalog so network_* functions exists for both datatypes!\\n\\nRedesigning the inet/cidr distinction is on the to-do list (though I'm\\nafraid not very high on the list). ISTM it should either be one type\\nwith a distinguishing bit in the runtime representation, or two types\\nwith no such bit needed. Having both is a schizophrenic design. It's\\nled directly to bugs in the past, and I think there are still some\\ncorner cases that act oddly (see the archives).\\n\\n\\t\\t\\tregards, tom lane\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sat, 29 Jan 2005 22:07:30 -0500\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: Bug in create operator and/or initdb \"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"On Sat, Jan 29, 2005 at 10:07:30PM -0500, Tom Lane wrote:\\n> \\\"John Hansen\\\" <john@geeknet.com.au> writes:\\n> > In that case may I suggest fixing the catalog so network_* functions exists for both datatypes!\\n> \\n> Redesigning the inet/cidr distinction is on the to-do list (though I'm\\n> afraid not very high on the list). ISTM it should either be one type\\n> with a distinguishing bit in the runtime representation, or two types\\n> with no such bit needed. Having both is a schizophrenic design. It's\\n> led directly to bugs in the past, and I think there are still some\\n> corner cases that act oddly (see the archives).\\n\\n From a network engineering point of view the inet type is utterly\\nbogus. I'm not aware of data of that type being needed or used in\\nany real application. Given that, the complexity that it causes\\nsimply by existing seems too high a cost.\\n\\nI suspect that the right thing to do is to kill the inet type\\nentirely, and replace it with a special case of cidr. (And possibly\\nthen to kill cidr and replace it with something that can be indexed\\nmore effectively.)\\n\\nFor a replacement type, how important is it that it be completely\\ncompatible with the existing inet/cidr types? Is anyone actually using\\ninet types with a non-cidr mask?\\n\\nCheers,\\n Steve\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sat, 29 Jan 2005 20:20:10 -0800\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Steve Atkins <steve@blighty.com>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [BUGS] Bug in create operator and/or initdb\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Steve Atkins <steve@blighty.com> writes:\\n> For a replacement type, how important is it that it be completely\\n> compatible with the existing inet/cidr types? Is anyone actually using\\n> inet types with a non-cidr mask?\\n\\nIf you check the archives you'll discover that our current inet/cidr\\ntypes were largely designed and implemented by Paul Vixie (yes, that\\nVixie). I'm disinclined to second-guess Paul about the external\\ndefinition of these types; I just want to rationalize the internal\\nrepresentation a bit. In particular we've got some issues about\\nconversions between the two types ...\\n\\n\\t\\t\\tregards, tom lane\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sun, 30 Jan 2005 01:46:19 -0500\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [BUGS] Bug in create operator and/or initdb \"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"On Sun, 30 Jan 2005, Tom Lane wrote:\\n\\n> Steve Atkins <steve@blighty.com> writes:\\n>> For a replacement type, how important is it that it be completely\\n>> compatible with the existing inet/cidr types? Is anyone actually using\\n>> inet types with a non-cidr mask?\\n>\\n> If you check the archives you'll discover that our current inet/cidr\\n> types were largely designed and implemented by Paul Vixie (yes, that\\n> Vixie). I'm disinclined to second-guess Paul about the external\\n> definition of these types; I just want to rationalize the internal\\n> representation a bit. In particular we've got some issues about\\n> conversions between the two types ...\\nPlease do **NOT** break the external representations. We had enough fights\\nabout that 2-3 releases ago, and I personally don't want to revisit them.\\n\\nYes, we do flakey things with inet on the masking stuff.\\n\\nLER\\n\\n-- \\nLarry Rosenman http://www.lerctr.org/~ler\\nPhone: +1 972-414-9812 E-Mail: ler@lerctr.org\\nUS Mail: 1905 Steamboat Springs Drive, Garland, TX 75044-6749\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sun, 30 Jan 2005 21:49:43 -0600 (CST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Larry Rosenman <ler@lerctr.org>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [BUGS] Bug in create operator and/or initdb\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"On Sun, Jan 30, 2005 at 09:49:43PM -0600, Larry Rosenman wrote:\\n> On Sun, 30 Jan 2005, Tom Lane wrote:\\n> \\n> >Steve Atkins <steve@blighty.com> writes:\\n> >>For a replacement type, how important is it that it be completely\\n> >>compatible with the existing inet/cidr types? Is anyone actually using\\n> >>inet types with a non-cidr mask?\\n> >\\n> >If you check the archives you'll discover that our current inet/cidr\\n> >types were largely designed and implemented by Paul Vixie (yes, that\\n> >Vixie). I'm disinclined to second-guess Paul about the external\\n> >definition of these types; I just want to rationalize the internal\\n> >representation a bit. In particular we've got some issues about\\n> >conversions between the two types ...\\n>\\n> Please do **NOT** break the external representations. We had enough fights\\n> about that 2-3 releases ago, and I personally don't want to revisit them.\\n\\n> Yes, we do flakey things with inet on the masking stuff.\\n\\nWell, if you want the ability to store both a host address and a\\nnetmask in the same datatype the inet masking stuff makes sense.\\nThat's not really a useful datatype for any actual use, but it's\\nfairly well-defined. The problem is that when someone looks at the\\ndocs they'll see inet as the obvious datatype to use to store IP\\naddresses, and it isn't very good for that.\\n\\nBut that's not all that's flakey, unfortunately.\\n\\nThe CIDR input format is documented to be classful, which in itself is\\nhorribly obsolete and completely useless in this decades internet (and\\nwas when the current code was written in '98).\\n\\nBut the implementation isn't either classful or classless, and the\\nbehaviour disagrees with documented behaviour, and the behaviour you'd\\nreasonably expect, in many cases.\\n\\n-- Class A - documented to be 10.0.0.0/8\\n steve=# select '10.0.0.0'::cidr;\\n cidr \\n -------------\\n 10.0.0.0/32\\n\\n-- Class B - documented to be 128.0.0.0/16\\n steve=# select '128.0.0.0'::cidr;\\n cidr \\n --------------\\n 128.0.0.0/32\\n\\n-- Class C - documented to be 223.10.0.0/24\\n steve=# select '223.10.0.0'::cidr;\\n cidr \\n ---------------\\n 223.10.0.0/32\\n\\n-- Class D\\n steve=# select '224.10.0.0'::cidr;\\n ERROR: invalid cidr value: \\\"224.10.0.0\\\"\\n DETAIL: Value has bits set to right of mask.\\n\\n steve=# select '224.0.0.0'::cidr;\\n cidr \\n -------------\\n 224.0.0.0/4\\n\\n-- Class E\\n steve=# select '240.10.0.0'::cidr;\\n cidr \\n ---------------\\n 240.10.0.0/32\\n\\nI use postgresql for network-related applications and for IP address\\nrelated data mining, so I'm dealing with IP addresses in postgresql\\non a daily basis.\\n\\nThe cidr type, including it's external interface, is simply broken.\\nThere is no way to fix it that doesn't change that external interface.\\n\\nI know of at least two independant implementations of function IP\\naddress types that have been put together for specific projects to\\nimplement a working IP datatype. The ability to use gist indexes on\\nthem to accelerate range-based lookups is a bonus.\\n\\nIf it's not possible (for backwards compatibility reasons) to fix\\ninet+cidr, would migrating them out to contrib be a possibility?\\nData types in the core tend to be widely used, even if they're\\nbroken and there are better datatypes implemented as external\\nmodules.\\n\\nCheers,\\n Steve\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 31 Jan 2005 07:23:05 -0800\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Steve Atkins <steve@blighty.com>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [BUGS] Bug in create operator and/or initdb\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Steve Atkins <steve@blighty.com> writes:\\n> The cidr type, including it's external interface, is simply broken.\\n\\nThat is a large claim that I don't think you have demonstrated.\\nThe only one of your examples that seems to me to contradict the\\ndocumentation is this one:\\n\\n steve=# select '224.0.0.0'::cidr;\\n cidr \\n -------------\\n 224.0.0.0/4\\n\\nwhich should be /32 according to what the docs say:\\n\\n: If y is omitted, it is calculated using assumptions from the older\\n: classful network numbering system, except that it will be at least large\\n: enough to include all of the octets written in the input.\\n\\nThe bogus netmask is in turn responsible for this case:\\n\\n steve=# select '224.10.0.0'::cidr;\\n ERROR: invalid cidr value: \\\"224.10.0.0\\\"\\n DETAIL: Value has bits set to right of mask.\\n\\n\\nLooking at the source code, there seems to be a special case for \\\"class D\\\"\\nnetwork numbers that causes the code not to extend y to cover the\\nsupplied inputs:\\n\\n /* If no CIDR spec was given, infer width from net class. */\\n if (bits == -1)\\n {\\n if (*odst >= 240) /* Class E */\\n bits = 32;\\n else if (*odst >= 224) /* Class D */\\n bits = 4;\\n else if (*odst >= 192) /* Class C */\\n bits = 24;\\n else if (*odst >= 128) /* Class B */\\n bits = 16;\\n else /* Class A */\\n bits = 8;\\n /* If imputed mask is narrower than specified octets, widen. */\\n if (bits >= 8 && bits < ((dst - odst) * 8))\\n ^^^^^^^^^\\n bits = (dst - odst) * 8;\\n }\\n\\nI think the test for \\\"bits >= 8\\\" should be removed. Does anyone know\\nwhy it's there?\\n\\n\\t\\t\\tregards, tom lane\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 31 Jan 2005 12:16:26 -0500\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [BUGS] Bug in create operator and/or initdb \"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"On Mon, Jan 31, 2005 at 12:16:26PM -0500, Tom Lane wrote:\\n> Steve Atkins <steve@blighty.com> writes:\\n> > The cidr type, including it's external interface, is simply broken.\\n> \\n> That is a large claim that I don't think you have demonstrated.\\n> The only one of your examples that seems to me to contradict the\\n> documentation is this one:\\n> \\n> steve=# select '224.0.0.0'::cidr;\\n> cidr \\n> -------------\\n> 224.0.0.0/4\\n> \\n> which should be /32 according to what the docs say:\\n\\nOK. If this sort of thing is considered a bug, rather than part\\nof the external interface that shouldn't be changed, then I'd\\nagree that cidr isn't entirely broken and it may well be possible\\nto improve it without changing the interface.\\n\\n/me goes grovelling through the IPv6 inet code...\\n\\nCheers,\\n Steve\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 31 Jan 2005 09:54:24 -0800\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Steve Atkins <steve@blighty.com>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [BUGS] Bug in create operator and/or initdb\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"when my cidr datatype was integrated into pgsql, the decision was made to\\nincorporate a copy of bind's inet_net_pton.c rather than add a link-time\\ndependence to libbind.a (libbind.so). thus, when this bug was fixed in\\n2003:\\n\\n----------------------------\\nrevision 1.14\\ndate: 2003/08/20 02:21:08; author: marka; state: Exp; lines: +10 -4\\n1580. [bug] inet_net_pton() didn't fully handle implicit\\n multicast IPv4 network addresses.\\n\\nthe pgsql \\\"fork\\\" of this code did not benefit from the fix. the patch was:\\n\\nIndex: inet_net_pton.c\\n===================================================================\\nRCS file: /proj/cvs/prod/bind8/src/lib/inet/inet_net_pton.c,v\\nretrieving revision 1.13\\nretrieving revision 1.14\\ndiff -u -r1.13 -r1.14\\n--- inet_net_pton.c 27 Sep 2001 15:08:38 -0000 1.13\\n+++ inet_net_pton.c 20 Aug 2003 02:21:08 -0000 1.14\\n@@ -16,7 +16,7 @@\\n */\\n \\n #if defined(LIBC_SCCS) && !defined(lint)\\n-static const char rcsid[] = \\\"$Id: inet_net_pton.c,v 1.13 2001/09/27 15:08:38 marka Exp $\\\";\\n+static const char rcsid[] = \\\"$Id: inet_net_pton.c,v 1.14 2003/08/20 02:21:08 marka Exp $\\\";\\n #endif\\n \\n #include \\\"port_before.h\\\"\\n@@ -59,7 +59,7 @@\\n * Paul Vixie (ISC), June 1996\\n */\\n static int\\n-inet_net_pton_ipv4( const char *src, u_char *dst, size_t size) {\\n+inet_net_pton_ipv4(const char *src, u_char *dst, size_t size) {\\n static const char xdigits[] = \\\"0123456789abcdef\\\";\\n static const char digits[] = \\\"0123456789\\\";\\n int n, ch, tmp = 0, dirty, bits;\\n@@ -152,7 +152,7 @@\\n if (*odst >= 240) /* Class E */\\n bits = 32;\\n else if (*odst >= 224) /* Class D */\\n- bits = 4;\\n+ bits = 8;\\n else if (*odst >= 192) /* Class C */\\n bits = 24;\\n else if (*odst >= 128) /* Class B */\\n@@ -160,8 +160,14 @@\\n else /* Class A */\\n bits = 8;\\n /* If imputed mask is narrower than specified octets, widen. */\\n- if (bits >= 8 && bits < ((dst - odst) * 8))\\n+ if (bits < ((dst - odst) * 8))\\n bits = (dst - odst) * 8;\\n+ /*\\n+ * If there are no additional bits specified for a class D\\n+ * address adjust bits to 4.\\n+ */\\n+ if (bits == 8 && *odst == 224)\\n+ bits = 4;\\n }\\n /* Extend network to cover the actual mask. */\\n while (bits > ((dst - odst) * 8)) {\\n\\nre:\\n\\n> To: Steve Atkins <steve@blighty.com>\\n> Cc: pgsql-hackers <pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org>, paul@vix.com\\n> Subject: Re: [HACKERS] [BUGS] Bug in create operator and/or initdb \\n> Comments: In-reply-to Steve Atkins <steve@blighty.com>\\n> \\tmessage dated \\\"Mon, 31 Jan 2005 07:23:05 -0800\\\"\\n> Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 12:16:26 -0500\\n> From: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>\\n> \\n> Steve Atkins <steve@blighty.com> writes:\\n> > The cidr type, including it's external interface, is simply broken.\\n> \\n> That is a large claim that I don't think you have demonstrated.\\n> The only one of your examples that seems to me to contradict the\\n> documentation is this one:\\n> \\n> steve=# select '224.0.0.0'::cidr;\\n> cidr \\n> -------------\\n> 224.0.0.0/4\\n> \\n> which should be /32 according to what the docs say:\\n> \\n> : If y is omitted, it is calculated using assumptions from the older\\n> : classful network numbering system, except that it will be at least large\\n> : enough to include all of the octets written in the input.\\n> \\n> The bogus netmask is in turn responsible for this case:\\n> \\n> steve=# select '224.10.0.0'::cidr;\\n> ERROR: invalid cidr value: \\\"224.10.0.0\\\"\\n> DETAIL: Value has bits set to right of mask.\\n> \\n> \\n> Looking at the source code, there seems to be a special case for \\\"class D\\\"\\n> network numbers that causes the code not to extend y to cover the\\n> supplied inputs:\\n> \\n> /* If no CIDR spec was given, infer width from net class. */\\n> if (bits == -1)\\n> {\\n> if (*odst >= 240) /* Class E */\\n> bits = 32;\\n> else if (*odst >= 224) /* Class D */\\n> bits = 4;\\n> else if (*odst >= 192) /* Class C */\\n> bits = 24;\\n> else if (*odst >= 128) /* Class B */\\n> bits = 16;\\n> else /* Class A */\\n> bits = 8;\\n> /* If imputed mask is narrower than specified octets, widen. */\\n> if (bits >= 8 && bits < ((dst - odst) * 8))\\n> ^^^^^^^^^\\n> bits = (dst - odst) * 8;\\n> }\\n> \\n> I think the test for \\\"bits >= 8\\\" should be removed. Does anyone know\\n> why it's there?\\n> \\n> \\t\\t\\tregards, tom lane\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 31 Jan 2005 19:28:28 +0000\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Paul Vixie <paul@vix.com>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [BUGS] Bug in create operator and/or initdb \"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> writes:\\n\\n> steve=# select '224.0.0.0'::cidr;\\n> cidr \\n> -------------\\n> 224.0.0.0/4\\n> \\n> which should be /32 according to what the docs say:\\n\\n224-239 are multicast addresses. Making it /4 makes the entire multicast\\naddress space one network block which is about as reasonable an answer as\\nanything else.\\n\\n> if (bits >= 8 && bits < ((dst - odst) * 8))\\n> ^^^^^^^^^\\n> bits = (dst - odst) * 8;\\n> }\\n> \\n> I think the test for \\\"bits >= 8\\\" should be removed. Does anyone know\\n> why it's there?\\n\\nI guess Vixie figured network blocks subdividing multicast address space\\nweren't a sensible concept? It's a bit of a strange constraint to hard code\\ninto the C code though.\\n\\nIncidentally, how can that code possibly work? It treats odst as a pointer in\\nsome places but then calculates bits using arithmetic on it directly without\\ndereferencing?\\n\\n-- \\ngreg\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"31 Jan 2005 14:35:58 -0500\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Greg Stark <gsstark@mit.edu>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [BUGS] Bug in create operator and/or initdb\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Paul Vixie <paul@vix.com> writes:\\n> when my cidr datatype was integrated into pgsql, the decision was made to\\n> incorporate a copy of bind's inet_net_pton.c rather than add a link-time\\n> dependence to libbind.a (libbind.so).\\n\\nWe didn't really want to assume that all platforms are using libbind :-(\\n\\n> thus, when this bug was fixed in 2003:\\n\\n> ----------------------------\\n> revision 1.14\\n> date: 2003/08/20 02:21:08; author: marka; state: Exp; lines: +10 -4\\n> 1580. [bug] inet_net_pton() didn't fully handle implicit\\n> multicast IPv4 network addresses.\\n\\n> the pgsql \\\"fork\\\" of this code did not benefit from the fix. the patch was:\\n\\nAh-hah. Many thanks for supplying the patch --- will integrate it.\\n\\n\\t\\t\\tregards, tom lane\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 31 Jan 2005 14:36:33 -0500\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [BUGS] Bug in create operator and/or initdb \"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> We didn't really want to assume that all platforms are using libbind :-(\\n\\ni think you could have, at the time, since windows wasn't even a gleam in\\npgsql's eye. even now, libbind would be a dependable universal dependency,\\nsince we publish windows binaries.\\n\\n> > the pgsql \\\"fork\\\" of this code did not benefit from the fix. the patch was:\\n> \\n> Ah-hah. Many thanks for supplying the patch --- will integrate it.\\n\\ni have two suggestions. first, look at the rest of the current source file,\\nin case there are other fixes. second, track changes this source file during\\nyour release engineering process for each new pgsql version.\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 31 Jan 2005 22:44:38 +0000\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Paul Vixie <paul@vix.com>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [BUGS] Bug in create operator and/or initdb \"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Paul Vixie <paul@vix.com> writes:\\n> i have two suggestions. first, look at the rest of the current source file,\\n> in case there are other fixes.\\n\\nRight, I already grabbed the latest.\\n\\n> second, track changes this source file during\\n> your release engineering process for each new pgsql version.\\n\\nBruce, do you think this is worth adding to RELEASE_CHANGES?\\ninet_net_ntop.c and inet_net_pton.c are both extracted from the BIND\\ndistribution. But they're hardly the only files we took from elsewhere.\\n\\n\\t\\t\\tregards, tom lane\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 31 Jan 2005 17:52:40 -0500\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [BUGS] Bug in create operator and/or initdb \"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Tom Lane wrote:\\n> Paul Vixie <paul@vix.com> writes:\\n> > i have two suggestions. first, look at the rest of the current source file,\\n> > in case there are other fixes.\\n> \\n> Right, I already grabbed the latest.\\n> \\n> > second, track changes this source file during\\n> > your release engineering process for each new pgsql version.\\n> \\n> Bruce, do you think this is worth adding to RELEASE_CHANGES?\\n> inet_net_ntop.c and inet_net_pton.c are both extracted from the BIND\\n> distribution. But they're hardly the only files we took from elsewhere.\\n\\nYes, I do. Most of the stuff we pull from other OS projects has\\nclearly-defined behavior, while inet/cidr seem to be still in flux a\\nlittle.\\n\\nAdded to release checklist:\\n\\n\\t* Update inet/cidr data types with newest Bind patches\\n\\n-- \\n Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us\\n pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001\\n + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road\\n + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Wed, 2 Feb 2005 12:00:05 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [BUGS] Bug in create operator and/or initdb\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us> writes:\\n> Added to release checklist:\\n> \\t* Update inet/cidr data types with newest Bind patches\\n\\nYou should also add \\\"check for zic database updates\\\".\\n\\n\\t\\t\\tregards, tom lane\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Wed, 02 Feb 2005 12:02:58 -0500\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [BUGS] Bug in create operator and/or initdb \"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Tom Lane wrote:\\n> Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us> writes:\\n> > Added to release checklist:\\n> > \\t* Update inet/cidr data types with newest Bind patches\\n> \\n> You should also add \\\"check for zic database updates\\\".\\n\\nUh, we already have:\\n\\n\\t* Update timezone data to match latest zic database (see\\n\\t src/timezone/README)\\n\\n-- \\n Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us\\n pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001\\n + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road\\n + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Wed, 2 Feb 2005 12:38:04 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [BUGS] Bug in create operator and/or initdb\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":129,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"\nHiya...\n\n\tWould send email directly, but only have the address at home :(\n\n\tD'Arcy...you've been working on a Python interface, correct? Do\nwe want to include that as part of src/interfaces? *raised eyebrows*\n\n\n","msg_date":"Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:57:17 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Python...?"},{"msg_contents":"Thus spake The Hermit Hacker\n> \tWould send email directly, but only have the address at home :(\n> \n> \tD'Arcy...you've been working on a Python interface, correct? Do\n> we want to include that as part of src/interfaces? *raised eyebrows*\n\nSure. I'm currently working on a few enhancements and I hope to make\nit compliant with the Python standard database API. The current version\nworks fine though so go right ahead.\n\n-- \nD'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy@{druid|vex}.net> | Democracy is three wolves\nhttp://www.druid.net/darcy/ | and a sheep voting on\n+1 416 424 2871 (DoD#0082) (eNTP) | what's for dinner.\n","msg_date":"Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:37:43 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"darcy@druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Python...?"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\nHiya...\\n\\n\\tWould send email directly, but only have the address at home :(\\n\\n\\tD'Arcy...you've been working on a Python interface, correct? Do\\nwe want to include that as part of src/interfaces? *raised eyebrows*\\n\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:57:17 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Python...?\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Thus spake The Hermit Hacker\\n> \\tWould send email directly, but only have the address at home :(\\n> \\n> \\tD'Arcy...you've been working on a Python interface, correct? Do\\n> we want to include that as part of src/interfaces? *raised eyebrows*\\n\\nSure. I'm currently working on a few enhancements and I hope to make\\nit compliant with the Python standard database API. The current version\\nworks fine though so go right ahead.\\n\\n-- \\nD'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy@{druid|vex}.net> | Democracy is three wolves\\nhttp://www.druid.net/darcy/ | and a sheep voting on\\n+1 416 424 2871 (DoD#0082) (eNTP) | what's for dinner.\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:37:43 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"darcy@druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Python...?\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":130,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"Hi,\n\nI have installed PostgreSQL6.2.1 from my own user account (I was just trying\nto test out something first). It seems to be running too slow. For example,\nthe self join of a table with roughly 300K records takes 2-3 hours. There is\nan index on the join attribute.\nI am running it on a 8 processor (each is a 248 MHz SUNW,UltraSPARC-II)\n machine with a total of 2.0 GB main memory.\nBut, since it is not parallelized, it may get the power of only one processor.\n\nDoes it make a difference in performance since I have installed it from my\nuser account, and not the root. Also, I compiled it using gcc on a \nsolaris 2.5 machine and the machine I ran it is a solaris 2.6 machine. I did\nthat since the solaris 2.6 machine is the fastest we have here and the \nexecutable\ncompiled on 2.5 was running properly also. Can that have an impact on the\nperformance?\n\nThanks\n--shiby\n\n","msg_date":"Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:01:37 -0500","msg_from":"Shiby Thomas <sthomas@cise.ufl.edu>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"postgres performance"},{"msg_contents":"On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, Shiby Thomas wrote:\n\n> Hi,\n> \n> I have installed PostgreSQL6.2.1 from my own user account (I was just trying\n> to test out something first). It seems to be running too slow. For example,\n> the self join of a table with roughly 300K records takes 2-3 hours. There is\n> an index on the join attribute.\n> I am running it on a 8 processor (each is a 248 MHz SUNW,UltraSPARC-II)\n> machine with a total of 2.0 GB main memory.\n> But, since it is not parallelized, it may get the power of only one processor.\n> \n> Does it make a difference in performance since I have installed it from my\n> user account, and not the root. Also, I compiled it using gcc on a \n> solaris 2.5 machine and the machine I ran it is a solaris 2.6 machine. I did\n> that since the solaris 2.6 machine is the fastest we have here and the \n> executable\n> compiled on 2.5 was running properly also. Can that have an impact on the\n> performance?\n\n\tThere may be optimizations in the 2.6 libraries that would improve\nperformance, but I wouldn't suspect that it would make *that* big of a\ndifference. What is your SQL/join statemnt? How are you running\npostmaster? What does 'explain' show?\n\n\n","msg_date":"Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:15:59 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] postgres performance"},{"msg_contents":"> \n> Hi,\n> \n> I have installed PostgreSQL6.2.1 from my own user account (I was just trying\n> to test out something first). It seems to be running too slow. For example,\n> the self join of a table with roughly 300K records takes 2-3 hours. There is\n> an index on the join attribute.\n> I am running it on a 8 processor (each is a 248 MHz SUNW,UltraSPARC-II)\n> machine with a total of 2.0 GB main memory.\n> But, since it is not parallelized, it may get the power of only one processor.\n\nYou said a self-join. I think we have a performance problem there. \nVadim?\n\n\n> \n> Does it make a difference in performance since I have installed it from my\n> user account, and not the root. Also, I compiled it using gcc on a \n> solaris 2.5 machine and the machine I ran it is a solaris 2.6 machine. I did\n> that since the solaris 2.6 machine is the fastest we have here and the \n> executable\n> compiled on 2.5 was running properly also. Can that have an impact on the\n> performance?\n> \n> Thanks\n> --shiby\n> \n> \n> \n\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:23:07 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] postgres performance"},{"msg_contents":"\n=> \tThere may be optimizations in the 2.6 libraries that would improve\n=> performance, but I wouldn't suspect that it would make *that* big of a\n=> difference. What is your SQL/join statemnt? How are you running\n=> postmaster? What does 'explain' show?\n=> \nThe complete query is this:\n\nselect item1, item2, count(t1.tid) into table f2_temp from data t1, data t2, \nc2\nwhere t1.item = c2.item1 and t2.item = c2.item2 and t1.tid = t2.tid group by \nite\nm1, item2\n\ndata is a table with 2 integer columns (tid, item) and it has ~300K records\nc2 is a table (item1, item2), both integers and has ~1.5K records.\n\nI was directly running postgres with the -B and -S flags to give more buffers\nand sortMem. I also tried several join plans by the -f flags. Hash join works\nthe best and that itself is too slow (perhaps due to the self join)\n\n--shiby\n\n\n\n","msg_date":"Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:33:08 -0500","msg_from":"Shiby Thomas <sthomas@cise.ufl.edu>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] postgres performance "},{"msg_contents":"> \n> \n> => \tThere may be optimizations in the 2.6 libraries that would improve\n> => performance, but I wouldn't suspect that it would make *that* big of a\n> => difference. What is your SQL/join statemnt? How are you running\n> => postmaster? What does 'explain' show?\n> => \n> The complete query is this:\n> \n> select item1, item2, count(t1.tid) into table f2_temp from data t1, data t2, \n> c2\n> where t1.item = c2.item1 and t2.item = c2.item2 and t1.tid = t2.tid group by \n> ite\n> m1, item2\n> \n> data is a table with 2 integer columns (tid, item) and it has ~300K records\n> c2 is a table (item1, item2), both integers and has ~1.5K records.\n> \n> I was directly running postgres with the -B and -S flags to give more buffers\n> and sortMem. I also tried several join plans by the -f flags. Hash join works\n> the best and that itself is too slow (perhaps due to the self join)\n> \n\nI have a possible workaround. Turn GEQO on:\n\n\tSET GEQO ON=1\n\nand try it. Let us know.\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Thu, 15 Jan 1998 19:26:45 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] postgres performance"},{"msg_contents":"Shiby Thomas wrote:\n> \n> => There may be optimizations in the 2.6 libraries that would improve\n> => performance, but I wouldn't suspect that it would make *that* big of a\n> => difference. What is your SQL/join statemnt? How are you running\n> => postmaster? What does 'explain' show?\n> =>\n> The complete query is this:\n> \n> select item1, item2, count(t1.tid) into table f2_temp from data t1, data t2,\n> c2\n> where t1.item = c2.item1 and t2.item = c2.item2 and t1.tid = t2.tid group by\n> ite\n> m1, item2\n> \n> data is a table with 2 integer columns (tid, item) and it has ~300K records\n> c2 is a table (item1, item2), both integers and has ~1.5K records.\n> \n> I was directly running postgres with the -B and -S flags to give more buffers\n> and sortMem. I also tried several join plans by the -f flags. Hash join works\n> the best and that itself is too slow (perhaps due to the self join)\n\nIndices ?\nEXPLAIN ?\n\nVadim\n","msg_date":"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:30:22 +0700","msg_from":"\"Vadim B. Mikheev\" <vadim@sable.krasnoyarsk.su>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] postgres performance"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Hi,\\n\\nI have installed PostgreSQL6.2.1 from my own user account (I was just trying\\nto test out something first). It seems to be running too slow. For example,\\nthe self join of a table with roughly 300K records takes 2-3 hours. There is\\nan index on the join attribute.\\nI am running it on a 8 processor (each is a 248 MHz SUNW,UltraSPARC-II)\\n machine with a total of 2.0 GB main memory.\\nBut, since it is not parallelized, it may get the power of only one processor.\\n\\nDoes it make a difference in performance since I have installed it from my\\nuser account, and not the root. Also, I compiled it using gcc on a \\nsolaris 2.5 machine and the machine I ran it is a solaris 2.6 machine. I did\\nthat since the solaris 2.6 machine is the fastest we have here and the \\nexecutable\\ncompiled on 2.5 was running properly also. Can that have an impact on the\\nperformance?\\n\\nThanks\\n--shiby\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:01:37 -0500\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Shiby Thomas <sthomas@cise.ufl.edu>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"postgres performance\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, Shiby Thomas wrote:\\n\\n> Hi,\\n> \\n> I have installed PostgreSQL6.2.1 from my own user account (I was just trying\\n> to test out something first). It seems to be running too slow. For example,\\n> the self join of a table with roughly 300K records takes 2-3 hours. There is\\n> an index on the join attribute.\\n> I am running it on a 8 processor (each is a 248 MHz SUNW,UltraSPARC-II)\\n> machine with a total of 2.0 GB main memory.\\n> But, since it is not parallelized, it may get the power of only one processor.\\n> \\n> Does it make a difference in performance since I have installed it from my\\n> user account, and not the root. Also, I compiled it using gcc on a \\n> solaris 2.5 machine and the machine I ran it is a solaris 2.6 machine. I did\\n> that since the solaris 2.6 machine is the fastest we have here and the \\n> executable\\n> compiled on 2.5 was running properly also. Can that have an impact on the\\n> performance?\\n\\n\\tThere may be optimizations in the 2.6 libraries that would improve\\nperformance, but I wouldn't suspect that it would make *that* big of a\\ndifference. What is your SQL/join statemnt? How are you running\\npostmaster? What does 'explain' show?\\n\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:15:59 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] postgres performance\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> \\n> Hi,\\n> \\n> I have installed PostgreSQL6.2.1 from my own user account (I was just trying\\n> to test out something first). It seems to be running too slow. For example,\\n> the self join of a table with roughly 300K records takes 2-3 hours. There is\\n> an index on the join attribute.\\n> I am running it on a 8 processor (each is a 248 MHz SUNW,UltraSPARC-II)\\n> machine with a total of 2.0 GB main memory.\\n> But, since it is not parallelized, it may get the power of only one processor.\\n\\nYou said a self-join. I think we have a performance problem there. \\nVadim?\\n\\n\\n> \\n> Does it make a difference in performance since I have installed it from my\\n> user account, and not the root. Also, I compiled it using gcc on a \\n> solaris 2.5 machine and the machine I ran it is a solaris 2.6 machine. I did\\n> that since the solaris 2.6 machine is the fastest we have here and the \\n> executable\\n> compiled on 2.5 was running properly also. Can that have an impact on the\\n> performance?\\n> \\n> Thanks\\n> --shiby\\n> \\n> \\n> \\n\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:23:07 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] postgres performance\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\n=> \\tThere may be optimizations in the 2.6 libraries that would improve\\n=> performance, but I wouldn't suspect that it would make *that* big of a\\n=> difference. What is your SQL/join statemnt? How are you running\\n=> postmaster? What does 'explain' show?\\n=> \\nThe complete query is this:\\n\\nselect item1, item2, count(t1.tid) into table f2_temp from data t1, data t2, \\nc2\\nwhere t1.item = c2.item1 and t2.item = c2.item2 and t1.tid = t2.tid group by \\nite\\nm1, item2\\n\\ndata is a table with 2 integer columns (tid, item) and it has ~300K records\\nc2 is a table (item1, item2), both integers and has ~1.5K records.\\n\\nI was directly running postgres with the -B and -S flags to give more buffers\\nand sortMem. I also tried several join plans by the -f flags. Hash join works\\nthe best and that itself is too slow (perhaps due to the self join)\\n\\n--shiby\\n\\n\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:33:08 -0500\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Shiby Thomas <sthomas@cise.ufl.edu>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] postgres performance \"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> \\n> \\n> => \\tThere may be optimizations in the 2.6 libraries that would improve\\n> => performance, but I wouldn't suspect that it would make *that* big of a\\n> => difference. What is your SQL/join statemnt? How are you running\\n> => postmaster? What does 'explain' show?\\n> => \\n> The complete query is this:\\n> \\n> select item1, item2, count(t1.tid) into table f2_temp from data t1, data t2, \\n> c2\\n> where t1.item = c2.item1 and t2.item = c2.item2 and t1.tid = t2.tid group by \\n> ite\\n> m1, item2\\n> \\n> data is a table with 2 integer columns (tid, item) and it has ~300K records\\n> c2 is a table (item1, item2), both integers and has ~1.5K records.\\n> \\n> I was directly running postgres with the -B and -S flags to give more buffers\\n> and sortMem. I also tried several join plans by the -f flags. Hash join works\\n> the best and that itself is too slow (perhaps due to the self join)\\n> \\n\\nI have a possible workaround. Turn GEQO on:\\n\\n\\tSET GEQO ON=1\\n\\nand try it. Let us know.\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Thu, 15 Jan 1998 19:26:45 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] postgres performance\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Shiby Thomas wrote:\\n> \\n> => There may be optimizations in the 2.6 libraries that would improve\\n> => performance, but I wouldn't suspect that it would make *that* big of a\\n> => difference. What is your SQL/join statemnt? How are you running\\n> => postmaster? What does 'explain' show?\\n> =>\\n> The complete query is this:\\n> \\n> select item1, item2, count(t1.tid) into table f2_temp from data t1, data t2,\\n> c2\\n> where t1.item = c2.item1 and t2.item = c2.item2 and t1.tid = t2.tid group by\\n> ite\\n> m1, item2\\n> \\n> data is a table with 2 integer columns (tid, item) and it has ~300K records\\n> c2 is a table (item1, item2), both integers and has ~1.5K records.\\n> \\n> I was directly running postgres with the -B and -S flags to give more buffers\\n> and sortMem. I also tried several join plans by the -f flags. Hash join works\\n> the best and that itself is too slow (perhaps due to the self join)\\n\\nIndices ?\\nEXPLAIN ?\\n\\nVadim\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:30:22 +0700\",\n \"msg_from\": \"\\\"Vadim B. Mikheev\\\" <vadim@sable.krasnoyarsk.su>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] postgres performance\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":131,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"\n> OIDs are a bastardization of the relational model. If you have to keep\n> them, then do so, but their use should be SEVERELY discouraged.\n\nExplain yourself, please.\n\nIn my opinion, I view the OID in the same way as I view the SERIAL datatype\nin Informix. It is usually a primary key field in a table. On an insert,\nthe DBMS will increment the current serial-maximum (for that table) and insert\nthe new serial value into that field; thus creating a unique identifier.\n\nThere are differences between OID and SERIAL. The main difference is that\nthe OID field (always called 'oid') is always present whereas a DB designer\nexplicitly creates 'id' fields (of SERIAL type). Thus, postgresql treats\nevery table as an object (which is not always the case).\n\nIs the SERIAL datatype part of the SQL-92 standard? Does PostgreSQL plan\nto support SERIAL in the future. This would be an acceptable replacement\nfor the OID.\n\n-Bryan Basham\n","msg_date":"Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:39:16 -0700 (MST)","msg_from":"Bryan Basham <basham@bhi.com>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: [QUESTIONS] Arrays (inserting and removing)"},{"msg_contents":"On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, Bryan Basham wrote:\n\n> \n> > OIDs are a bastardization of the relational model. If you have to keep\n> > them, then do so, but their use should be SEVERELY discouraged.\n> \n> Explain yourself, please.\n> \n> In my opinion, I view the OID in the same way as I view the SERIAL datatype\n> in Informix. It is usually a primary key field in a table. On an insert,\n> the DBMS will increment the current serial-maximum (for that table) and insert\n> the new serial value into that field; thus creating a unique identifier.\n> \n> There are differences between OID and SERIAL. The main difference is that\n> the OID field (always called 'oid') is always present whereas a DB designer\n> explicitly creates 'id' fields (of SERIAL type). Thus, postgresql treats\n> every table as an object (which is not always the case).\n\n\tMajor problem with OID: OIDs are sequenced across the database,\nnot the table. ie. tableA inserts with OID #1, tableB inserts with OID\n#2, tableA inserts next record with OID #3, tableC then gets #4, etc...\n\n\tAnd...# of OIDs is finite...so if you have a lot of tables with\nalot of data in each...you run the risk of running out.\n\n\tIn this sense, sequences are the better alternative, but again,\nthey are a newer feature to PostgreSQL then the code that I wrote using\nOIDs\n\n\n","msg_date":"Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:48:24 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Re: [QUESTIONS] Arrays (inserting and removing)"},{"msg_contents":"On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, The Hermit Hacker wrote:\n\n> \tMajor problem with OID: OIDs are sequenced across the database,\n> not the table. ie. tableA inserts with OID #1, tableB inserts with OID\n> #2, tableA inserts next record with OID #3, tableC then gets #4, etc...\n\nin my oo world (i.e., systems i develop), i use oid's to determine the\ntype of object and due to the limitation of postgresql's oids, i use a\nseparate field for the system's oid - kinda redundant but gotta live with\nit. nonetheless, postgresql's oids can still be improved.\n\n> \tAnd...# of OIDs is finite...so if you have a lot of tables with\n> alot of data in each...you run the risk of running out.\n\nfinitely limited :)\n\n[---]\nNeil D. Quiogue <neil@iphil.net>\nIPhil Communications Network, Inc.\nOther: neil@postgresql.org\n\n","msg_date":"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:04:10 +0800 (HKT)","msg_from":"\"neil d. quiogue\" <neil@iphil.net>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Re: [QUESTIONS] Arrays (inserting and removing)"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\n> OIDs are a bastardization of the relational model. If you have to keep\\n> them, then do so, but their use should be SEVERELY discouraged.\\n\\nExplain yourself, please.\\n\\nIn my opinion, I view the OID in the same way as I view the SERIAL datatype\\nin Informix. It is usually a primary key field in a table. On an insert,\\nthe DBMS will increment the current serial-maximum (for that table) and insert\\nthe new serial value into that field; thus creating a unique identifier.\\n\\nThere are differences between OID and SERIAL. The main difference is that\\nthe OID field (always called 'oid') is always present whereas a DB designer\\nexplicitly creates 'id' fields (of SERIAL type). Thus, postgresql treats\\nevery table as an object (which is not always the case).\\n\\nIs the SERIAL datatype part of the SQL-92 standard? Does PostgreSQL plan\\nto support SERIAL in the future. This would be an acceptable replacement\\nfor the OID.\\n\\n-Bryan Basham\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:39:16 -0700 (MST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bryan Basham <basham@bhi.com>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [QUESTIONS] Arrays (inserting and removing)\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, Bryan Basham wrote:\\n\\n> \\n> > OIDs are a bastardization of the relational model. If you have to keep\\n> > them, then do so, but their use should be SEVERELY discouraged.\\n> \\n> Explain yourself, please.\\n> \\n> In my opinion, I view the OID in the same way as I view the SERIAL datatype\\n> in Informix. It is usually a primary key field in a table. On an insert,\\n> the DBMS will increment the current serial-maximum (for that table) and insert\\n> the new serial value into that field; thus creating a unique identifier.\\n> \\n> There are differences between OID and SERIAL. The main difference is that\\n> the OID field (always called 'oid') is always present whereas a DB designer\\n> explicitly creates 'id' fields (of SERIAL type). Thus, postgresql treats\\n> every table as an object (which is not always the case).\\n\\n\\tMajor problem with OID: OIDs are sequenced across the database,\\nnot the table. ie. tableA inserts with OID #1, tableB inserts with OID\\n#2, tableA inserts next record with OID #3, tableC then gets #4, etc...\\n\\n\\tAnd...# of OIDs is finite...so if you have a lot of tables with\\nalot of data in each...you run the risk of running out.\\n\\n\\tIn this sense, sequences are the better alternative, but again,\\nthey are a newer feature to PostgreSQL then the code that I wrote using\\nOIDs\\n\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:48:24 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Re: [QUESTIONS] Arrays (inserting and removing)\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, The Hermit Hacker wrote:\\n\\n> \\tMajor problem with OID: OIDs are sequenced across the database,\\n> not the table. ie. tableA inserts with OID #1, tableB inserts with OID\\n> #2, tableA inserts next record with OID #3, tableC then gets #4, etc...\\n\\nin my oo world (i.e., systems i develop), i use oid's to determine the\\ntype of object and due to the limitation of postgresql's oids, i use a\\nseparate field for the system's oid - kinda redundant but gotta live with\\nit. nonetheless, postgresql's oids can still be improved.\\n\\n> \\tAnd...# of OIDs is finite...so if you have a lot of tables with\\n> alot of data in each...you run the risk of running out.\\n\\nfinitely limited :)\\n\\n[---]\\nNeil D. Quiogue <neil@iphil.net>\\nIPhil Communications Network, Inc.\\nOther: neil@postgresql.org\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:04:10 +0800 (HKT)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"\\\"neil d. quiogue\\\" <neil@iphil.net>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Re: [QUESTIONS] Arrays (inserting and removing)\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":132,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"\nHi...\n\n\tI've just installed (massaged in?) a major major patch for PL(?)\nthat was submitted in Nov...snapshot will be created in about 18hrs or\nso...please test and report back any problems...haven't had a chance to\ntest compile it here yet :(\n\n\n\n","msg_date":"Thu, 15 Jan 1998 14:44:20 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"*Major* Patch for PL "},{"msg_contents":"> Hi...\n>\n> I've just installed (massaged in?) a major major patch for PL(?)\n> that was submitted in Nov...snapshot will be created in about 18hrs or\n> so...please test and report back any problems...haven't had a chance to\n> test compile it here yet :(\n\n Waited for that so long - thanks. I'll take a look at it and\n run my tests asap.\n\n\nUntil later, Jan\n\n--\n\n#======================================================================#\n# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #\n# Let's break this rule - forgive me. #\n#======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #\n\n\n","msg_date":"Mon, 19 Jan 1998 12:12:11 +0100 (MET)","msg_from":"jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] *Major* Patch for PL"},{"msg_contents":">\n> > Hi...\n> >\n> > I've just installed (massaged in?) a major major patch for PL(?)\n> > that was submitted in Nov...snapshot will be created in about 18hrs or\n> > so...please test and report back any problems...haven't had a chance to\n> > test compile it here yet :(\n>\n> Waited for that so long - thanks. I'll take a look at it and\n> run my tests asap.\n>\n\n Looks O.K. - tests passed through.\n\n Now anything is prepared for PL support in all places\n (aggregates, operators, etc.). At least PL/Tcl ran in all\n that areas.\n\n Found a little bug in interfaces/libpq/fe-connect.c during\n tests. In line 403 conn->pgpass is set to DefaultPassword and\n later in line 665 this might be free()'d. Just wrapping a\n strdup() around DefaultPassword fixed it.\n\n Did anybody worked on other languages for PL modules since\n this new interface was designed? Who would like to dive into\n (perl/phyton/...)? Who would like to co-work on a pure\n PL/pgSQL?\n\n\nUntil later, Jan\n\n--\n\n#======================================================================#\n# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #\n# Let's break this rule - forgive me. #\n#======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #\n\n\n","msg_date":"Mon, 19 Jan 1998 14:18:01 +0100 (MET)","msg_from":"jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] *Major* Patch for PL"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\nHi...\\n\\n\\tI've just installed (massaged in?) a major major patch for PL(?)\\nthat was submitted in Nov...snapshot will be created in about 18hrs or\\nso...please test and report back any problems...haven't had a chance to\\ntest compile it here yet :(\\n\\n\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Thu, 15 Jan 1998 14:44:20 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"*Major* Patch for PL \"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> Hi...\\n>\\n> I've just installed (massaged in?) a major major patch for PL(?)\\n> that was submitted in Nov...snapshot will be created in about 18hrs or\\n> so...please test and report back any problems...haven't had a chance to\\n> test compile it here yet :(\\n\\n Waited for that so long - thanks. I'll take a look at it and\\n run my tests asap.\\n\\n\\nUntil later, Jan\\n\\n--\\n\\n#======================================================================#\\n# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #\\n# Let's break this rule - forgive me. #\\n#======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #\\n\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 19 Jan 1998 12:12:11 +0100 (MET)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] *Major* Patch for PL\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \">\\n> > Hi...\\n> >\\n> > I've just installed (massaged in?) a major major patch for PL(?)\\n> > that was submitted in Nov...snapshot will be created in about 18hrs or\\n> > so...please test and report back any problems...haven't had a chance to\\n> > test compile it here yet :(\\n>\\n> Waited for that so long - thanks. I'll take a look at it and\\n> run my tests asap.\\n>\\n\\n Looks O.K. - tests passed through.\\n\\n Now anything is prepared for PL support in all places\\n (aggregates, operators, etc.). At least PL/Tcl ran in all\\n that areas.\\n\\n Found a little bug in interfaces/libpq/fe-connect.c during\\n tests. In line 403 conn->pgpass is set to DefaultPassword and\\n later in line 665 this might be free()'d. Just wrapping a\\n strdup() around DefaultPassword fixed it.\\n\\n Did anybody worked on other languages for PL modules since\\n this new interface was designed? Who would like to dive into\\n (perl/phyton/...)? Who would like to co-work on a pure\\n PL/pgSQL?\\n\\n\\nUntil later, Jan\\n\\n--\\n\\n#======================================================================#\\n# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #\\n# Let's break this rule - forgive me. #\\n#======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #\\n\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 19 Jan 1998 14:18:01 +0100 (MET)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] *Major* Patch for PL\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":133,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"I keep getting:\n\nToo Large Allocation Request(\"!(0 < (size) && (size) <= \n(0xfffffff)):size=-3 [0xfffffffd]\", File: \"mcxt.c\", Line: 232)\n!(0 < (size) && (size) <= (0xfffffff)) (0) [No such file or directory]\n\nfrom a simple select:\n\nSELECT * from provinces;\n\nincidentally, \"SELECT oid from provinces;\" works...\n(as does any select on one component)... but checking...\nNope - countrycode fails. Prints out garbage (8bit garbage at that)\nAs do all fields after that - though they're just bad data.\n\nFor comparison, I have another database with \"varchar(50), integer,\ntimestamp, timestamp\" - and the only noncorrupted field is the first\nvarchar() entry. Perhaps it's in the string-handling?\n\nThe contents of the database:\n---\nCREATE TABLE provinces\n (\n code\t\tchar(4),\t-- ...\n name\t\tvarchar(50),\t-- ...\n countrycode\tchar(2),\t-- ...\n country\tvarchar(50),\t-- ...\n\n -- creation and modification dates of this record...\n creationdate\ttimestamp default now(),\n modifydate\ttimestamp default now()\n );\n\nINSERT INTO provinces (code, name, countrycode, country)\n\tVALUES ('bc','British Columbia','ca','Canada');\nINSERT INTO provinces (code, name, countrycode, country)\n\tVALUES ('ab','Alberta', 'ca','Canada');\nINSERT INTO provinces (code, name, countrycode, country)\n\tVALUES ('alta','Alberta', 'ca','Canada');\n-- one gets tired of databases referring to \"state\"... so time to turn the\n-- tables *grin*\nINSERT INTO provinces (code, name, countrycode, country)\n\tVALUES ('wa', 'Washington',\t'us','United States');\n---\n\nIncidentally, this worked perfectly up 'till christmas-CVS. I had some\nother problems so I upgraded... and now it core-dumps 'psql' and sends\nthis to the backend.\n\nOn debugging psql I found the error in \"UP()\", but as I don't know how to\nuse gdb properly I can't look any deeper (I've always preferred logfiles -\nespecially when working on videodriver code :)\n[mayhaps psql needs better recovery code... will have to look at that\nsometime]\n\nJDBC also fails FWIW - with these messages: (same query)\njava.sql.SQLException: Error reading from backend: java.io.IOException: EOF\n at postgresql.PG_Stream.ReceiveInteger(PG_Stream.java:184)\n at postgresql.PG_Stream.ReceiveTuple(PG_Stream.java:256)\n at postgresql.Connection.ExecSQL(Connection.java:626)\n at postgresql.Statement.execute(Statement.java:259)\n at postgresql.Statement.executeQuery(Statement.java:46)\n at Mauve.Main.readProvinces(Main.java:234)\n at Mauve.Main.main(Main.java:363)\njava.sql.SQLException: I/O Error: java.io.IOException: Broken pipe\n at postgresql.Connection.ExecSQL(Connection.java:583)\n at postgresql.Statement.execute(Statement.java:259)\n at postgresql.Statement.executeQuery(Statement.java:46)\n at Mauve.Main.readPaymentForms(Main.java:252)\n at Mauve.Main.main(Main.java:366)\n\nI suspect a bug somewhere - but don't know how to find it. Or if my\ndata's incorrect.... many things have changed in postgres.\n\nPlatform:\n\tlinux 2.0.33 (got tired of being flamed for using 2.1 kernels)\n\tglibc-2.0.5c (standard! ref: redhat-5.0)\n\tgcc 2.7.2.1 (I also have egc-1.0 but I don't trust it yet)\n\tCyrix 6x86, 40M ram, ~5G drivespace\n\nThough it's nice to finally see large objects working *grin*.\n\nG'day, eh? :)\n\t- Teunis\n\n","msg_date":"Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:54:13 -0700 (MST)","msg_from":"teunis <teunis@mauve.computersupportcentre.com>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"a small problem with current CVS - wondering how to debug"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"I keep getting:\\n\\nToo Large Allocation Request(\\\"!(0 < (size) && (size) <= \\n(0xfffffff)):size=-3 [0xfffffffd]\\\", File: \\\"mcxt.c\\\", Line: 232)\\n!(0 < (size) && (size) <= (0xfffffff)) (0) [No such file or directory]\\n\\nfrom a simple select:\\n\\nSELECT * from provinces;\\n\\nincidentally, \\\"SELECT oid from provinces;\\\" works...\\n(as does any select on one component)... but checking...\\nNope - countrycode fails. Prints out garbage (8bit garbage at that)\\nAs do all fields after that - though they're just bad data.\\n\\nFor comparison, I have another database with \\\"varchar(50), integer,\\ntimestamp, timestamp\\\" - and the only noncorrupted field is the first\\nvarchar() entry. Perhaps it's in the string-handling?\\n\\nThe contents of the database:\\n---\\nCREATE TABLE provinces\\n (\\n code\\t\\tchar(4),\\t-- ...\\n name\\t\\tvarchar(50),\\t-- ...\\n countrycode\\tchar(2),\\t-- ...\\n country\\tvarchar(50),\\t-- ...\\n\\n -- creation and modification dates of this record...\\n creationdate\\ttimestamp default now(),\\n modifydate\\ttimestamp default now()\\n );\\n\\nINSERT INTO provinces (code, name, countrycode, country)\\n\\tVALUES ('bc','British Columbia','ca','Canada');\\nINSERT INTO provinces (code, name, countrycode, country)\\n\\tVALUES ('ab','Alberta', 'ca','Canada');\\nINSERT INTO provinces (code, name, countrycode, country)\\n\\tVALUES ('alta','Alberta', 'ca','Canada');\\n-- one gets tired of databases referring to \\\"state\\\"... so time to turn the\\n-- tables *grin*\\nINSERT INTO provinces (code, name, countrycode, country)\\n\\tVALUES ('wa', 'Washington',\\t'us','United States');\\n---\\n\\nIncidentally, this worked perfectly up 'till christmas-CVS. I had some\\nother problems so I upgraded... and now it core-dumps 'psql' and sends\\nthis to the backend.\\n\\nOn debugging psql I found the error in \\\"UP()\\\", but as I don't know how to\\nuse gdb properly I can't look any deeper (I've always preferred logfiles -\\nespecially when working on videodriver code :)\\n[mayhaps psql needs better recovery code... will have to look at that\\nsometime]\\n\\nJDBC also fails FWIW - with these messages: (same query)\\njava.sql.SQLException: Error reading from backend: java.io.IOException: EOF\\n at postgresql.PG_Stream.ReceiveInteger(PG_Stream.java:184)\\n at postgresql.PG_Stream.ReceiveTuple(PG_Stream.java:256)\\n at postgresql.Connection.ExecSQL(Connection.java:626)\\n at postgresql.Statement.execute(Statement.java:259)\\n at postgresql.Statement.executeQuery(Statement.java:46)\\n at Mauve.Main.readProvinces(Main.java:234)\\n at Mauve.Main.main(Main.java:363)\\njava.sql.SQLException: I/O Error: java.io.IOException: Broken pipe\\n at postgresql.Connection.ExecSQL(Connection.java:583)\\n at postgresql.Statement.execute(Statement.java:259)\\n at postgresql.Statement.executeQuery(Statement.java:46)\\n at Mauve.Main.readPaymentForms(Main.java:252)\\n at Mauve.Main.main(Main.java:366)\\n\\nI suspect a bug somewhere - but don't know how to find it. Or if my\\ndata's incorrect.... many things have changed in postgres.\\n\\nPlatform:\\n\\tlinux 2.0.33 (got tired of being flamed for using 2.1 kernels)\\n\\tglibc-2.0.5c (standard! ref: redhat-5.0)\\n\\tgcc 2.7.2.1 (I also have egc-1.0 but I don't trust it yet)\\n\\tCyrix 6x86, 40M ram, ~5G drivespace\\n\\nThough it's nice to finally see large objects working *grin*.\\n\\nG'day, eh? :)\\n\\t- Teunis\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:54:13 -0700 (MST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"teunis <teunis@mauve.computersupportcentre.com>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"a small problem with current CVS - wondering how to debug\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":134,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"\nI wish ppl would quite dropping off CC's :( Especially when this stuff\n*should* be being discussed in pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org...\n\nAs for the pg_privileges relation and whatnot...is this something we want\nfor v6.3 (can it be done in 2weeks?) or wait until after v6.3 is released?\n\n\n\nOn Thu, 15 Jan 1998, todd brandys wrote:\n\n> > wouldn't that pose a problem with setting up someone other the\n> > the superuser to create databases? *Raised eyebrows*\n> \n> Again I feel that PostgreSQL should have a pg_privileges relation which would\n> handle the CREATE DATABASE privilege. There would be no problem then.\n> \n> Todd A. Brandys\n> brandys@eng3.hep.uiuc.edu\n> \n\n","msg_date":"Thu, 15 Jan 1998 15:27:21 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: New pg_pwd patch and stuff"},{"msg_contents":"> \n> \n> I wish ppl would quite dropping off CC's :( Especially when this stuff\n> *should* be being discussed in pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org...\n> \n> As for the pg_privileges relation and whatnot...is this something we want\n> for v6.3 (can it be done in 2weeks?) or wait until after v6.3 is released?\n> \n\nWell, I can create the table quite easily. The issue is what type of\nflack we will get by haveing pg_user non-readable, and removing the user\nname from psql's \\d output.\n\n> \n> \n> On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, todd brandys wrote:\n> \n> > > wouldn't that pose a problem with setting up someone other the\n> > > the superuser to create databases? *Raised eyebrows*\n> > \n> > Again I feel that PostgreSQL should have a pg_privileges relation which would\n> > handle the CREATE DATABASE privilege. There would be no problem then.\n> > \n> > Todd A. Brandys\n> > brandys@eng3.hep.uiuc.edu\n> > \n> \n> \n> \n\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Thu, 15 Jan 1998 15:51:34 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Re: New pg_pwd patch and stuff"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\nI wish ppl would quite dropping off CC's :( Especially when this stuff\\n*should* be being discussed in pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org...\\n\\nAs for the pg_privileges relation and whatnot...is this something we want\\nfor v6.3 (can it be done in 2weeks?) or wait until after v6.3 is released?\\n\\n\\n\\nOn Thu, 15 Jan 1998, todd brandys wrote:\\n\\n> > wouldn't that pose a problem with setting up someone other the\\n> > the superuser to create databases? *Raised eyebrows*\\n> \\n> Again I feel that PostgreSQL should have a pg_privileges relation which would\\n> handle the CREATE DATABASE privilege. There would be no problem then.\\n> \\n> Todd A. Brandys\\n> brandys@eng3.hep.uiuc.edu\\n> \\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Thu, 15 Jan 1998 15:27:21 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: New pg_pwd patch and stuff\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> \\n> \\n> I wish ppl would quite dropping off CC's :( Especially when this stuff\\n> *should* be being discussed in pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org...\\n> \\n> As for the pg_privileges relation and whatnot...is this something we want\\n> for v6.3 (can it be done in 2weeks?) or wait until after v6.3 is released?\\n> \\n\\nWell, I can create the table quite easily. The issue is what type of\\nflack we will get by haveing pg_user non-readable, and removing the user\\nname from psql's \\\\d output.\\n\\n> \\n> \\n> On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, todd brandys wrote:\\n> \\n> > > wouldn't that pose a problem with setting up someone other the\\n> > > the superuser to create databases? *Raised eyebrows*\\n> > \\n> > Again I feel that PostgreSQL should have a pg_privileges relation which would\\n> > handle the CREATE DATABASE privilege. There would be no problem then.\\n> > \\n> > Todd A. Brandys\\n> > brandys@eng3.hep.uiuc.edu\\n> > \\n> \\n> \\n> \\n\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Thu, 15 Jan 1998 15:51:34 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Re: New pg_pwd patch and stuff\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":135,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"> Fork off the postgres process first, then authenticate inside of\n> there...which would get rid of the problem with pg_user itself being a\n> text file vs a relation...no?\n\nYes, yes, yes. This is how authentication should be done (for HBA, etc.)\nFurthermore, we could reduce the footprint of the postmaster drastically. It\nwould only need to accept a socket connection and fork the backend. This\nscenario would also allow the postmaster to be run as the root user. Good\nthings could only come of this method.\n\nThe only reason I put my authentication scheme where it is, is that all the\nother authentication schemes take place in the postmaster, and to work things\nproperly, use of my scheme (checking to see if there is a password or not) must\ncome first.\n\nTodd A. Brandys\nbrandys@eng3.hep.uiuc.edu\n\n","msg_date":"Thu, 15 Jan 1998 14:31:37 -0600","msg_from":"todd brandys <brandys@eng3.hep.uiuc.edu>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: New pg_pwd patch and stuff"},{"msg_contents":"todd brandys wrote:\n> \n> > Fork off the postgres process first, then authenticate inside of\n> > there...which would get rid of the problem with pg_user itself being a\n> > text file vs a relation...no?\n> \n> Yes, yes, yes. This is how authentication should be done (for HBA, etc.)\n\nNo, no, no! For security reasons, you can't fork (and exec)\nunauthenticated processes. Especially HBA authentication should be done\nto consume as low resources as possbile. Otherwise you open a giant door\nfor so infamously called Denial of Service attacks. Afterwards, every\nhacker will know that to bring your system running postgres to it's\nknees he just have to try to connect to 5432 port very frequently. \"OK\",\nyou might say, \"I have this firewall\". \"OK\", I say, \"so what's that HBA\nfor?\".\n\nSo it's the postmaster's role to deny as much connections as possible.\nUnless we speak of non-execing postgres childs?\n\nMike\n\n-- \nWWW: http://www.lodz.pdi.net/~mimo tel: Int. Acc. Code + 48 42 148340\nadd: Michal Mosiewicz * Bugaj 66 m.54 * 95-200 Pabianice * POLAND\n","msg_date":"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 02:35:38 +0000","msg_from":"\"Micha��� Mosiewicz\" <mimo@lodz.pdi.net>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Re: New pg_pwd patch and stuff"},{"msg_contents":"On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Micha3 Mosiewicz wrote:\n\n> No, no, no! For security reasons, you can't fork (and exec)\n> unauthenticated processes. Especially HBA authentication should be done\n> to consume as low resources as possbile. Otherwise you open a giant door\n> for so infamously called Denial of Service attacks. Afterwards, every\n> hacker will know that to bring your system running postgres to it's\n> knees he just have to try to connect to 5432 port very frequently. \"OK\",\n> you might say, \"I have this firewall\". \"OK\", I say, \"so what's that HBA\n> for?\".\n> \n> So it's the postmaster's role to deny as much connections as possible.\n> Unless we speak of non-execing postgres childs?\n\n\tHrmmmm...i don't quite agree with this. postmaster can handle one \nconnection at a time, and then has to pass it off to the postgres backend\nprocess...DoS attacks are easier now then by forking before HBA. I just have\nto continuously open a connection to port 5432...so, while postmaster is\nhandling that connection, checking HBA, checking a password...no other new \nconnections can happen. Can't think of a stronger DoS then that...? :)\n\nMarc G. Fournier \nSystems Administrator @ hub.org \nprimary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org \n\n","msg_date":"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 00:11:46 -0400 (AST)","msg_from":"The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Re: New pg_pwd patch and stuff"},{"msg_contents":"The Hermit Hacker wrote:\n> \n> On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Micha3 Mosiewicz wrote:\n> \n> > No, no, no! For security reasons, you can't fork (and exec)\n> > unauthenticated processes. Especially HBA authentication should be done\n> > to consume as low resources as possbile. Otherwise you open a giant door\n> > for so infamously called Denial of Service attacks. Afterwards, every\n> > hacker will know that to bring your system running postgres to it's\n> > knees he just have to try to connect to 5432 port very frequently. \"OK\",\n> > you might say, \"I have this firewall\". \"OK\", I say, \"so what's that HBA\n> > for?\".\n> >\n> > So it's the postmaster's role to deny as much connections as possible.\n> > Unless we speak of non-execing postgres childs?\n> \n> Hrmmmm...i don't quite agree with this. postmaster can handle one\n> connection at a time, and then has to pass it off to the postgres backend\n> process...DoS attacks are easier now then by forking before HBA. I just have\n> to continuously open a connection to port 5432...so, while postmaster is\n> handling that connection, checking HBA, checking a password...no other new\n> connections can happen. Can't think of a stronger DoS then that...? :)\n\nI think Micha is right. The postmaster can handle multiple connections\nas the read of the startup packet is done a fragment at a time without\nblocking so there is no DoS problem until the postmaster runs out of\nsockets. I think this is less of a problem than loads of\nunauthenticated, resource hungry backends forked by the postmaster.\n\nIn changing the authentication methods for 6.3 I've had to add the\nability for the postmaster to do non-blocking writes as well as reads so\nthat a two-way (non-blocking) dialog can take place between frontend and\npostmaster.\n\nHaving said that, I won't fix (for 6.3 anyway) other parts of the\npostmaster that do blocked I/O - the ident lookup in particular. \nHowever, it is at least under the control of the DBA whether or not\nident is used.\n\nPhil\n","msg_date":"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 19:45:14 +0000","msg_from":"Phil Thompson <phil@river-bank.demon.co.uk>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Re: New pg_pwd patch and stuff"},{"msg_contents":"The Hermit Hacker wrote:\n\n> Hrmmmm...i don't quite agree with this. postmaster can handle one\n> connection at a time, and then has to pass it off to the postgres backend\n> process...DoS attacks are easier now then by forking before HBA. I just have\n\nForking is not so bad... but isn't there any exec also? And of course\nit's a difference if your machine is overloaded by processes or if it's\nonly one service that doesn't respond becouse the access-controling code\nis disabled.\n\nSecond question... if we speak only about forking postmaster, or it's\nabout forking-execing-opening files-reading-etc stuff? If it's only\nfork, I would totally agree with you, otherwise I'm not sure which is\nworse... \n\nMike\n\n-- \nWWW: http://www.lodz.pdi.net/~mimo tel: Int. Acc. Code + 48 42 148340\nadd: Michal Mosiewicz * Bugaj 66 m.54 * 95-200 Pabianice * POLAND\n\n","msg_date":"Sun, 18 Jan 1998 03:39:45 +0000","msg_from":"\"Micha3 Mosiewicz\" <mimo@lodz.pdi.net>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Re: New pg_pwd patch and stuff"},{"msg_contents":"\n\nOn Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Phil Thompson wrote:\n\n> The Hermit Hacker wrote:\n> > \n> > On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Micha3 Mosiewicz wrote:\n> > \n> > > No, no, no! For security reasons, you can't fork (and exec)\n> > > unauthenticated processes. Especially HBA authentication should be done\n> > > to consume as low resources as possbile. Otherwise you open a giant door\n> > > for so infamously called Denial of Service attacks. Afterwards, every\n> > > hacker will know that to bring your system running postgres to it's\n> > > knees he just have to try to connect to 5432 port very frequently. \"OK\",\n> > > you might say, \"I have this firewall\". \"OK\", I say, \"so what's that HBA\n> > > for?\".\n> > >\n> > > So it's the postmaster's role to deny as much connections as possible.\n> > > Unless we speak of non-execing postgres childs?\n> > \n> > Hrmmmm...i don't quite agree with this. postmaster can handle one\n> > connection at a time, and then has to pass it off to the postgres backend\n> > process...DoS attacks are easier now then by forking before HBA. I just have\n> > to continuously open a connection to port 5432...so, while postmaster is\n> > handling that connection, checking HBA, checking a password...no other new\n> > connections can happen. Can't think of a stronger DoS then that...? :)\n> \n> I think Micha is right. The postmaster can handle multiple connections\n> as the read of the startup packet is done a fragment at a time without\n> blocking so there is no DoS problem until the postmaster runs out of\n> sockets. I think this is less of a problem than loads of\n> unauthenticated, resource hungry backends forked by the postmaster.\n> \n> In changing the authentication methods for 6.3 I've had to add the\n> ability for the postmaster to do non-blocking writes as well as reads so\n> that a two-way (non-blocking) dialog can take place between frontend and\n> postmaster.\n> \n> Having said that, I won't fix (for 6.3 anyway) other parts of the\n> postmaster that do blocked I/O - the ident lookup in particular. \n> However, it is at least under the control of the DBA whether or not\n> ident is used.\n> \n> Phil\n> \n\nOne way or another PostgreSQL is subject to attack. If we do continue on \nwith postmaster doing authentication, then the postmaster should be made \ncapable of performing queries against the system catalog. This would \nallow HBA to be incorporated into the system catalog (pg_user or \nwhatever). Why would we do this? It will make PostgreSQL easier to \nadminister. The user will not have to edit files to make a change. HBA's\ncharacteristics could be partially handled by adding a:\n\nFROM (<host1> | <group1>) ... [, (<hostn> | <groupn>)]\n\nclause to the 'CREATE USER' statement. Right now the only way this could be\nachieved would be to pass authentication down to the backend processes, \nas the postmaster can not execute SQL statements.\n\nTodd A. Brandys\nbrandys@eng3.hep.uiuc.edu\n\n","msg_date":"Sun, 18 Jan 1998 15:47:30 -0600 (CST)","msg_from":"todd brandys <brandys@eng3.hep.uiuc.edu>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Re: New pg_pwd patch and stuff"},{"msg_contents":" So, if postmaster can't access the system tables for authentication\npurposes, why not have one child forked, connected to the main \npostmaster process via some IPC mechanism, whose only purpose\nin life it is to answer SQL-queries for postmaster.\n\n\tmjl\n\n","msg_date":"Mon, 19 Jan 1998 04:18:34 +0100 (MET)","msg_from":"\"Martin J. Laubach\" <mjl@emsi.priv.at>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Re: New pg_pwd patch and stuff"},{"msg_contents":"\n\nOn Mon, 19 Jan 1998, Martin J. Laubach wrote:\n\n> So, if postmaster can't access the system tables for authentication\n> purposes, why not have one child forked, connected to the main \n> postmaster process via some IPC mechanism, whose only purpose\n> in life it is to answer SQL-queries for postmaster.\n> \n> \tmjl\n> \n> \n\nI would have to say \"footprint\". All the code for the backend has been \nincorporated into the postmaster. The postmaster is nothing more than a\nbackend run with some special command line options. The postgres executable\nis over 1 MB large and is a static executable. This is quite a bit of\n(virtual) memory. I realize that memory is cheap these days, but to \nhave all the backend code included in with the postmaster and not have it \nuseable is a waste of resources. To then have a second instance running \nwould take more resources.\n\nIf we must maintain user authorization in the postmaster, then I believe \nit would be best to strip this code from the postgres executable to \ncreate a postmaster with a smaller footprint. Furthermore, the postmaster\nshould be made capable of performing heapscans, so that it could at least\nview the data in the system catalog. Then all the data needed for each \nauthentication method (or a single method if we incorporated the best \naspects of each method into one super authentication method), could be \nstored in the system catalog. This information could then be managed by the\nCREATE/ALTER USER statements, which would alleviate the need to edit flat \nfiles for system configuration.\n\nTodd A. Brandys\nbrandys@eng3.hep.uiuc.edu\n\n","msg_date":"Tue, 20 Jan 1998 12:10:23 -0600 (CST)","msg_from":"todd brandys <brandys@eng3.hep.uiuc.edu>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Re: New pg_pwd patch and stuff"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> Fork off the postgres process first, then authenticate inside of\\n> there...which would get rid of the problem with pg_user itself being a\\n> text file vs a relation...no?\\n\\nYes, yes, yes. This is how authentication should be done (for HBA, etc.)\\nFurthermore, we could reduce the footprint of the postmaster drastically. It\\nwould only need to accept a socket connection and fork the backend. This\\nscenario would also allow the postmaster to be run as the root user. Good\\nthings could only come of this method.\\n\\nThe only reason I put my authentication scheme where it is, is that all the\\nother authentication schemes take place in the postmaster, and to work things\\nproperly, use of my scheme (checking to see if there is a password or not) must\\ncome first.\\n\\nTodd A. Brandys\\nbrandys@eng3.hep.uiuc.edu\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Thu, 15 Jan 1998 14:31:37 -0600\",\n \"msg_from\": \"todd brandys <brandys@eng3.hep.uiuc.edu>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: New pg_pwd patch and stuff\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"todd brandys wrote:\\n> \\n> > Fork off the postgres process first, then authenticate inside of\\n> > there...which would get rid of the problem with pg_user itself being a\\n> > text file vs a relation...no?\\n> \\n> Yes, yes, yes. This is how authentication should be done (for HBA, etc.)\\n\\nNo, no, no! For security reasons, you can't fork (and exec)\\nunauthenticated processes. Especially HBA authentication should be done\\nto consume as low resources as possbile. Otherwise you open a giant door\\nfor so infamously called Denial of Service attacks. Afterwards, every\\nhacker will know that to bring your system running postgres to it's\\nknees he just have to try to connect to 5432 port very frequently. \\\"OK\\\",\\nyou might say, \\\"I have this firewall\\\". \\\"OK\\\", I say, \\\"so what's that HBA\\nfor?\\\".\\n\\nSo it's the postmaster's role to deny as much connections as possible.\\nUnless we speak of non-execing postgres childs?\\n\\nMike\\n\\n-- \\nWWW: http://www.lodz.pdi.net/~mimo tel: Int. Acc. Code + 48 42 148340\\nadd: Michal Mosiewicz * Bugaj 66 m.54 * 95-200 Pabianice * POLAND\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 02:35:38 +0000\",\n \"msg_from\": \"\\\"Micha��� Mosiewicz\\\" <mimo@lodz.pdi.net>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Re: New pg_pwd patch and stuff\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Micha3 Mosiewicz wrote:\\n\\n> No, no, no! For security reasons, you can't fork (and exec)\\n> unauthenticated processes. Especially HBA authentication should be done\\n> to consume as low resources as possbile. Otherwise you open a giant door\\n> for so infamously called Denial of Service attacks. Afterwards, every\\n> hacker will know that to bring your system running postgres to it's\\n> knees he just have to try to connect to 5432 port very frequently. \\\"OK\\\",\\n> you might say, \\\"I have this firewall\\\". \\\"OK\\\", I say, \\\"so what's that HBA\\n> for?\\\".\\n> \\n> So it's the postmaster's role to deny as much connections as possible.\\n> Unless we speak of non-execing postgres childs?\\n\\n\\tHrmmmm...i don't quite agree with this. postmaster can handle one \\nconnection at a time, and then has to pass it off to the postgres backend\\nprocess...DoS attacks are easier now then by forking before HBA. I just have\\nto continuously open a connection to port 5432...so, while postmaster is\\nhandling that connection, checking HBA, checking a password...no other new \\nconnections can happen. Can't think of a stronger DoS then that...? :)\\n\\nMarc G. Fournier \\nSystems Administrator @ hub.org \\nprimary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org \\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 00:11:46 -0400 (AST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Re: New pg_pwd patch and stuff\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"The Hermit Hacker wrote:\\n> \\n> On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Micha3 Mosiewicz wrote:\\n> \\n> > No, no, no! For security reasons, you can't fork (and exec)\\n> > unauthenticated processes. Especially HBA authentication should be done\\n> > to consume as low resources as possbile. Otherwise you open a giant door\\n> > for so infamously called Denial of Service attacks. Afterwards, every\\n> > hacker will know that to bring your system running postgres to it's\\n> > knees he just have to try to connect to 5432 port very frequently. \\\"OK\\\",\\n> > you might say, \\\"I have this firewall\\\". \\\"OK\\\", I say, \\\"so what's that HBA\\n> > for?\\\".\\n> >\\n> > So it's the postmaster's role to deny as much connections as possible.\\n> > Unless we speak of non-execing postgres childs?\\n> \\n> Hrmmmm...i don't quite agree with this. postmaster can handle one\\n> connection at a time, and then has to pass it off to the postgres backend\\n> process...DoS attacks are easier now then by forking before HBA. I just have\\n> to continuously open a connection to port 5432...so, while postmaster is\\n> handling that connection, checking HBA, checking a password...no other new\\n> connections can happen. Can't think of a stronger DoS then that...? :)\\n\\nI think Micha is right. The postmaster can handle multiple connections\\nas the read of the startup packet is done a fragment at a time without\\nblocking so there is no DoS problem until the postmaster runs out of\\nsockets. I think this is less of a problem than loads of\\nunauthenticated, resource hungry backends forked by the postmaster.\\n\\nIn changing the authentication methods for 6.3 I've had to add the\\nability for the postmaster to do non-blocking writes as well as reads so\\nthat a two-way (non-blocking) dialog can take place between frontend and\\npostmaster.\\n\\nHaving said that, I won't fix (for 6.3 anyway) other parts of the\\npostmaster that do blocked I/O - the ident lookup in particular. \\nHowever, it is at least under the control of the DBA whether or not\\nident is used.\\n\\nPhil\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 19:45:14 +0000\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Phil Thompson <phil@river-bank.demon.co.uk>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Re: New pg_pwd patch and stuff\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"The Hermit Hacker wrote:\\n\\n> Hrmmmm...i don't quite agree with this. postmaster can handle one\\n> connection at a time, and then has to pass it off to the postgres backend\\n> process...DoS attacks are easier now then by forking before HBA. I just have\\n\\nForking is not so bad... but isn't there any exec also? And of course\\nit's a difference if your machine is overloaded by processes or if it's\\nonly one service that doesn't respond becouse the access-controling code\\nis disabled.\\n\\nSecond question... if we speak only about forking postmaster, or it's\\nabout forking-execing-opening files-reading-etc stuff? If it's only\\nfork, I would totally agree with you, otherwise I'm not sure which is\\nworse... \\n\\nMike\\n\\n-- \\nWWW: http://www.lodz.pdi.net/~mimo tel: Int. Acc. Code + 48 42 148340\\nadd: Michal Mosiewicz * Bugaj 66 m.54 * 95-200 Pabianice * POLAND\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sun, 18 Jan 1998 03:39:45 +0000\",\n \"msg_from\": \"\\\"Micha3 Mosiewicz\\\" <mimo@lodz.pdi.net>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Re: New pg_pwd patch and stuff\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\n\\nOn Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Phil Thompson wrote:\\n\\n> The Hermit Hacker wrote:\\n> > \\n> > On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Micha3 Mosiewicz wrote:\\n> > \\n> > > No, no, no! For security reasons, you can't fork (and exec)\\n> > > unauthenticated processes. Especially HBA authentication should be done\\n> > > to consume as low resources as possbile. Otherwise you open a giant door\\n> > > for so infamously called Denial of Service attacks. Afterwards, every\\n> > > hacker will know that to bring your system running postgres to it's\\n> > > knees he just have to try to connect to 5432 port very frequently. \\\"OK\\\",\\n> > > you might say, \\\"I have this firewall\\\". \\\"OK\\\", I say, \\\"so what's that HBA\\n> > > for?\\\".\\n> > >\\n> > > So it's the postmaster's role to deny as much connections as possible.\\n> > > Unless we speak of non-execing postgres childs?\\n> > \\n> > Hrmmmm...i don't quite agree with this. postmaster can handle one\\n> > connection at a time, and then has to pass it off to the postgres backend\\n> > process...DoS attacks are easier now then by forking before HBA. I just have\\n> > to continuously open a connection to port 5432...so, while postmaster is\\n> > handling that connection, checking HBA, checking a password...no other new\\n> > connections can happen. Can't think of a stronger DoS then that...? :)\\n> \\n> I think Micha is right. The postmaster can handle multiple connections\\n> as the read of the startup packet is done a fragment at a time without\\n> blocking so there is no DoS problem until the postmaster runs out of\\n> sockets. I think this is less of a problem than loads of\\n> unauthenticated, resource hungry backends forked by the postmaster.\\n> \\n> In changing the authentication methods for 6.3 I've had to add the\\n> ability for the postmaster to do non-blocking writes as well as reads so\\n> that a two-way (non-blocking) dialog can take place between frontend and\\n> postmaster.\\n> \\n> Having said that, I won't fix (for 6.3 anyway) other parts of the\\n> postmaster that do blocked I/O - the ident lookup in particular. \\n> However, it is at least under the control of the DBA whether or not\\n> ident is used.\\n> \\n> Phil\\n> \\n\\nOne way or another PostgreSQL is subject to attack. If we do continue on \\nwith postmaster doing authentication, then the postmaster should be made \\ncapable of performing queries against the system catalog. This would \\nallow HBA to be incorporated into the system catalog (pg_user or \\nwhatever). Why would we do this? It will make PostgreSQL easier to \\nadminister. The user will not have to edit files to make a change. HBA's\\ncharacteristics could be partially handled by adding a:\\n\\nFROM (<host1> | <group1>) ... [, (<hostn> | <groupn>)]\\n\\nclause to the 'CREATE USER' statement. Right now the only way this could be\\nachieved would be to pass authentication down to the backend processes, \\nas the postmaster can not execute SQL statements.\\n\\nTodd A. Brandys\\nbrandys@eng3.hep.uiuc.edu\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sun, 18 Jan 1998 15:47:30 -0600 (CST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"todd brandys <brandys@eng3.hep.uiuc.edu>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Re: New pg_pwd patch and stuff\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \" So, if postmaster can't access the system tables for authentication\\npurposes, why not have one child forked, connected to the main \\npostmaster process via some IPC mechanism, whose only purpose\\nin life it is to answer SQL-queries for postmaster.\\n\\n\\tmjl\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 19 Jan 1998 04:18:34 +0100 (MET)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"\\\"Martin J. Laubach\\\" <mjl@emsi.priv.at>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Re: New pg_pwd patch and stuff\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\n\\nOn Mon, 19 Jan 1998, Martin J. Laubach wrote:\\n\\n> So, if postmaster can't access the system tables for authentication\\n> purposes, why not have one child forked, connected to the main \\n> postmaster process via some IPC mechanism, whose only purpose\\n> in life it is to answer SQL-queries for postmaster.\\n> \\n> \\tmjl\\n> \\n> \\n\\nI would have to say \\\"footprint\\\". All the code for the backend has been \\nincorporated into the postmaster. The postmaster is nothing more than a\\nbackend run with some special command line options. The postgres executable\\nis over 1 MB large and is a static executable. This is quite a bit of\\n(virtual) memory. I realize that memory is cheap these days, but to \\nhave all the backend code included in with the postmaster and not have it \\nuseable is a waste of resources. To then have a second instance running \\nwould take more resources.\\n\\nIf we must maintain user authorization in the postmaster, then I believe \\nit would be best to strip this code from the postgres executable to \\ncreate a postmaster with a smaller footprint. Furthermore, the postmaster\\nshould be made capable of performing heapscans, so that it could at least\\nview the data in the system catalog. Then all the data needed for each \\nauthentication method (or a single method if we incorporated the best \\naspects of each method into one super authentication method), could be \\nstored in the system catalog. This information could then be managed by the\\nCREATE/ALTER USER statements, which would alleviate the need to edit flat \\nfiles for system configuration.\\n\\nTodd A. Brandys\\nbrandys@eng3.hep.uiuc.edu\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 20 Jan 1998 12:10:23 -0600 (CST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"todd brandys <brandys@eng3.hep.uiuc.edu>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Re: New pg_pwd patch and stuff\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":136,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"> As for the pg_privileges relation and whatnot...is this something we want\n> for v6.3 (can it be done in 2weeks?) or wait until after v6.3 is released?\n\nI don't think (realistically) that such a task could be done in two weeks. No.\nRather, we should wait until after release 6.3, and then maybe spend some time\ndebating on what the pg_privileges table should look like. After the table is\ncreated (the easy part), then it becomes a hunt to find all the places where\nprivileges are checked and change to the code in these spot (not too bad really).\nFinally, we have to develop the code for governing column permissions (this is\nthe most difficult part of the project). The query processor must be changed\nto check the permissions of each column in all commands.\n\nThis would be a tall order for two weeks. Especially, to be certain that we\nhad a consensus among the hacker community that what was being done was being\ndone in the best way possible.\n\nTodd A. Brandys\nbrandys@eng3.hep.uiuc.edu\n","msg_date":"Thu, 15 Jan 1998 14:41:51 -0600","msg_from":"todd brandys <brandys@eng3.hep.uiuc.edu>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: New pg_pwd patch and stuff"},{"msg_contents":"> \n> > As for the pg_privileges relation and whatnot...is this something we want\n> > for v6.3 (can it be done in 2weeks?) or wait until after v6.3 is released?\n> \n> I don't think (realistically) that such a task could be done in two weeks. No.\n> Rather, we should wait until after release 6.3, and then maybe spend some time\n> debating on what the pg_privileges table should look like. After the table is\n> created (the easy part), then it becomes a hunt to find all the places where\n> privileges are checked and change to the code in these spot (not too bad really).\n> Finally, we have to develop the code for governing column permissions (this is\n> the most difficult part of the project). The query processor must be changed\n> to check the permissions of each column in all commands.\n> \n> This would be a tall order for two weeks. Especially, to be certain that we\n> had a consensus among the hacker community that what was being done was being\n> done in the best way possible.\n\n\nI believe doing permissions on VIEWS would be much simpler than\ncolumn-level permissions. That way, you create the view with the\ncolumns you need, and give that to the user.\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Thu, 15 Jan 1998 16:05:54 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Re: New pg_pwd patch and stuff"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> As for the pg_privileges relation and whatnot...is this something we want\\n> for v6.3 (can it be done in 2weeks?) or wait until after v6.3 is released?\\n\\nI don't think (realistically) that such a task could be done in two weeks. No.\\nRather, we should wait until after release 6.3, and then maybe spend some time\\ndebating on what the pg_privileges table should look like. After the table is\\ncreated (the easy part), then it becomes a hunt to find all the places where\\nprivileges are checked and change to the code in these spot (not too bad really).\\nFinally, we have to develop the code for governing column permissions (this is\\nthe most difficult part of the project). The query processor must be changed\\nto check the permissions of each column in all commands.\\n\\nThis would be a tall order for two weeks. Especially, to be certain that we\\nhad a consensus among the hacker community that what was being done was being\\ndone in the best way possible.\\n\\nTodd A. Brandys\\nbrandys@eng3.hep.uiuc.edu\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Thu, 15 Jan 1998 14:41:51 -0600\",\n \"msg_from\": \"todd brandys <brandys@eng3.hep.uiuc.edu>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: New pg_pwd patch and stuff\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> \\n> > As for the pg_privileges relation and whatnot...is this something we want\\n> > for v6.3 (can it be done in 2weeks?) or wait until after v6.3 is released?\\n> \\n> I don't think (realistically) that such a task could be done in two weeks. No.\\n> Rather, we should wait until after release 6.3, and then maybe spend some time\\n> debating on what the pg_privileges table should look like. After the table is\\n> created (the easy part), then it becomes a hunt to find all the places where\\n> privileges are checked and change to the code in these spot (not too bad really).\\n> Finally, we have to develop the code for governing column permissions (this is\\n> the most difficult part of the project). The query processor must be changed\\n> to check the permissions of each column in all commands.\\n> \\n> This would be a tall order for two weeks. Especially, to be certain that we\\n> had a consensus among the hacker community that what was being done was being\\n> done in the best way possible.\\n\\n\\nI believe doing permissions on VIEWS would be much simpler than\\ncolumn-level permissions. That way, you create the view with the\\ncolumns you need, and give that to the user.\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Thu, 15 Jan 1998 16:05:54 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Re: New pg_pwd patch and stuff\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":137,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"subscribe\n","msg_date":"Thu, 15 Jan 1998 14:42:31 -0600","msg_from":"todd brandys <brandys@eng3.hep.uiuc.edu>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"subscribe"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"subscribe\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Thu, 15 Jan 1998 14:42:31 -0600\",\n \"msg_from\": \"todd brandys <brandys@eng3.hep.uiuc.edu>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"subscribe\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":138,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"Forwarded message:\n> > Why attlen should be -1 ?\n> > attlen in pg_attribute for v in table t is 84, why run-time attlen\n> > should be -1 ? How else maxlen constraint could be checked ?\n> > IMHO, you have to change heap_getattr() to check is atttype == VARCHAROID\n> > and use vl_len if yes. Also, other places where attlen is used must be \n> > changed too - e.g. ExecEvalVar():\n> > \n> > {\n> > len = tuple_type->attrs[attnum - 1]->attlen;\n> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n> > byval = tuple_type->attrs[attnum - 1]->attbyval ? true : false;\n> > }\n> > \n> > execConstByVal = byval;\n> > execConstLen = len;\n> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ - used in nodeHash.c\n> > \n> \n> The major problem is that TupleDesc comes from several places, and\n> attlen means several things.\n> \n> There are some cases where TupleDesc (int numatt, Attrs[]) is created\n> on-the-fly (tupdesc.c), and the attlen is the length of the type. In\n> other cases, we get attlen from opening the relation, heap_open(), and\n> in these cases it is the length as defined for the particular attribute.\n> \n> Certainly a bad situation. I am not sure about a fix.\n\nOK, here is a temporary fix to the problem. It does the heap_open(),\nthen replaces the attrs for VARCHAR with attlen of -1. You can't just\nchange the field, because the data is in a cache and you are just\nreturned a pointer.\n\nCan I add an 'attdeflen' for \"attributed defined length\" field to\npg_attribute, and change the attlen references needed to the new field?\nThis is the only proper way to fix it.\n\n\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n*** ./backend/executor/execAmi.c.orig\tThu Jan 15 22:42:13 1998\n--- ./backend/executor/execAmi.c\tThu Jan 15 23:54:37 1998\n***************\n*** 42,47 ****\n--- 42,48 ----\n #include \"access/genam.h\"\n #include \"access/heapam.h\"\n #include \"catalog/heap.h\"\n+ #include \"catalog/pg_type.h\"\n \n static Pointer\n ExecBeginScan(Relation relation, int nkeys, ScanKey skeys,\n***************\n*** 124,129 ****\n--- 125,155 ----\n \tif (relation == NULL)\n \t\telog(DEBUG, \"ExecOpenR: relation == NULL, heap_open failed.\");\n \n+ \t{\n+ \t\tint i;\n+ \t\tRelation trel = palloc(sizeof(RelationData));\n+ \t\tTupleDesc tdesc = palloc(sizeof(struct tupleDesc));\n+ \t\tAttributeTupleForm *tatt =\n+ \t\t\t\tpalloc(sizeof(AttributeTupleForm*)*relation->rd_att->natts);\n+ \n+ \t\tmemcpy(trel, relation, sizeof(RelationData));\n+ \t\tmemcpy(tdesc, relation->rd_att, sizeof(struct tupleDesc));\n+ \t\ttrel->rd_att = tdesc;\n+ \t\ttdesc->attrs = tatt;\n+ \t\t\n+ \t\tfor (i = 0; i < relation->rd_att->natts; i++)\n+ \t\t{\n+ \t\t\tif (relation->rd_att->attrs[i]->atttypid != VARCHAROID)\n+ \t\t\t\ttdesc->attrs[i] = relation->rd_att->attrs[i];\n+ \t\t\telse\n+ \t\t\t{\n+ \t\t\t\ttdesc->attrs[i] = palloc(sizeof(FormData_pg_attribute));\n+ \t\t\t\tmemcpy(tdesc->attrs[i], relation->rd_att->attrs[i],\n+ \t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tsizeof(FormData_pg_attribute));\n+ \t\t\t\ttdesc->attrs[i]->attlen = -1;\n+ \t\t\t}\n+ \t\t}\n+ \t}\n \treturn relation;\n }\n \n\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 00:05:03 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Re: varchar() troubles (fwd)"},{"msg_contents":"> OK, here is a temporary fix to the problem. It does the heap_open(),\n> then replaces the attrs for VARCHAR with attlen of -1. You can't just\n> change the field, because the data is in a cache and you are just\n> returned a pointer.\n>\n> Can I add an 'attdeflen' for \"attributed defined length\" field to\n> pg_attribute, and change the attlen references needed to the new field?\n> This is the only proper way to fix it.\n\nBruce, does your \"temporary fix\" seem to repair all known problems with varchar()? If so, would you be interested in\nholding off on a \"proper fix\" and coming back to it after v6.3 is released? At that time, we can try solving the general\nproblem of retaining column-specific attributes, such as your max len for varchar, declared dimensions for arrays, and\nnumeric() and decimal() types. Or, if you have time to try a solution now _and_ come back to it later...\n\n - Tom\n\n","msg_date":"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 05:26:08 +0000","msg_from":"\"Thomas G. Lockhart\" <lockhart@alumni.caltech.edu>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Re: varchar() troubles (fwd)"},{"msg_contents":"> \n> > OK, here is a temporary fix to the problem. It does the heap_open(),\n> > then replaces the attrs for VARCHAR with attlen of -1. You can't just\n> > change the field, because the data is in a cache and you are just\n> > returned a pointer.\n> >\n> > Can I add an 'attdeflen' for \"attributed defined length\" field to\n> > pg_attribute, and change the attlen references needed to the new field?\n> > This is the only proper way to fix it.\n> \n\n> Bruce, does your \"temporary fix\" seem to repair all known problems\nwith varchar()? If so, would you be interested in > holding off on a\n\"proper fix\" and coming back to it after v6.3 is released? At that time,\nwe can try solving the general > problem of retaining column-specific\nattributes, such as your max len for varchar, declared dimensions for\narrays, and > numeric() and decimal() types. Or, if you have time to try\na solution now _and_ come back to it later... > > \n\n[Those wide post really are difficult.]\n\nI don't think my solution is perfect or complete. I only caught one\ngroup of heap_open calls used in the executor. I could funnel all of\nthem through this patched function, but I can imagine there would be\nones I would miss. Once the structure is gotten from the cache, it\nseems to fly around the executor code quite freely, and it is hard to\nknow when a tuple descriptor is being created, if it is being used for\ndata creation or data reference. attlen references are much clearer in\ntheir intent.\n\nIf I add a new field type to FormData_pg_attribute, I can then check\neach attlen reference, and check if it is trying to move through the\non-disk storage (attlen/typlen) or create a new/modify an entry\n(attdeflen).\n\nHow much time I have depends on what Vadim needs me to do for\nsubselects.\n\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 00:44:11 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Re: varchar() troubles (fwd)"},{"msg_contents":"> \n> > OK, here is a temporary fix to the problem. It does the heap_open(),\n> > then replaces the attrs for VARCHAR with attlen of -1. You can't just\n> > change the field, because the data is in a cache and you are just\n> > returned a pointer.\n> >\n> > Can I add an 'attdeflen' for \"attributed defined length\" field to\n> > pg_attribute, and change the attlen references needed to the new field?\n> > This is the only proper way to fix it.\n> \n> Bruce, does your \"temporary fix\" seem to repair all known problems with varchar()? If so, would you be interested in\n> holding off on a \"proper fix\" and coming back to it after v6.3 is released? At that time, we can try solving the general\n> problem of retaining column-specific attributes, such as your max len for varchar, declared dimensions for arrays, and\n> numeric() and decimal() types. Or, if you have time to try a solution now _and_ come back to it later...\n> \n> - Tom\n> \n> \n\nIn fact, I am inclined to leave attlen unchanged, and add atttyplen that\nis a copy of the length of the type. That way, the attlen for varchar()\nreally contains the defined length, and atttyplen is used for disk\nreferences, and it is very clear what it means.\n\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 00:49:02 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Re: varchar() troubles (fwd)"},{"msg_contents":"Bruce Momjian wrote:\n> \n> > >\n> > > Can I add an 'attdeflen' for \"attributed defined length\" field to\n> > > pg_attribute, and change the attlen references needed to the new field?\n> > > This is the only proper way to fix it.\n> >\n> > Bruce, does your \"temporary fix\" seem to repair all known problems with varchar()? If so, would you be interested in\n> > holding off on a \"proper fix\" and coming back to it after v6.3 is released? At that time, we can try solving the general\n> > problem of retaining column-specific attributes, such as your max len for varchar, declared dimensions for arrays, and\n> > numeric() and decimal() types. Or, if you have time to try a solution now _and_ come back to it later...\n> >\n> \n> In fact, I am inclined to leave attlen unchanged, and add atttyplen that\n> is a copy of the length of the type. That way, the attlen for varchar()\n> really contains the defined length, and atttyplen is used for disk\n> references, and it is very clear what it means.\n\npg_attribute.h:\n\n int2 attlen; \n\n /*\n * attlen is a copy of the typlen field from pg_type for this\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n * attribute... \n ^^^^^^^^^\n: I would suggest to don't change this to preserve the same meaning\nfor all data types. attlen = -1 means that attribute is varlena.\n\nWe certainly need in new field in pg_attribute! I don't like names like\n\"attdeflen\" or \"atttyplen\" - bad names for NUMERIC etc. Something like\natttspec (ATTribute Type SPECification) is better, imho.\n\nFor the varchar(N) we'll have attlen = -1 and atttspec = N (or N + 4 - what's\nbetter). For the text: attlen = -1 and atttspec = -1. And so on.\n\nOf 'course, it's not so much matter where to put maxlen of varchar.\nattlen = -1 for varchar just seems more clear to me.\n\nBut in any case we need in new field and, imho, this should be added\nin 6.3\n\nVadim\n","msg_date":"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:31:45 +0700","msg_from":"\"Vadim B. Mikheev\" <vadim@sable.krasnoyarsk.su>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Re: varchar() troubles (fwd)"},{"msg_contents":"> \n> Bruce Momjian wrote:\n> > \n> > > >\n> > > > Can I add an 'attdeflen' for \"attributed defined length\" field to\n> > > > pg_attribute, and change the attlen references needed to the new field?\n> > > > This is the only proper way to fix it.\n> > >\n> > > Bruce, does your \"temporary fix\" seem to repair all known problems with varchar()? If so, would you be interested in\n> > > holding off on a \"proper fix\" and coming back to it after v6.3 is released? At that time, we can try solving the general\n> > > problem of retaining column-specific attributes, such as your max len for varchar, declared dimensions for arrays, and\n> > > numeric() and decimal() types. Or, if you have time to try a solution now _and_ come back to it later...\n> > >\n> > \n> > In fact, I am inclined to leave attlen unchanged, and add atttyplen that\n> > is a copy of the length of the type. That way, the attlen for varchar()\n> > really contains the defined length, and atttyplen is used for disk\n> > references, and it is very clear what it means.\n> \n> pg_attribute.h:\n> \n> int2 attlen; \n> \n> /*\n> * attlen is a copy of the typlen field from pg_type for this\n> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n> * attribute... \n> ^^^^^^^^^\n> : I would suggest to don't change this to preserve the same meaning\n> for all data types. attlen = -1 means that attribute is varlena.\n> \n> We certainly need in new field in pg_attribute! I don't like names like\n> \"attdeflen\" or \"atttyplen\" - bad names for NUMERIC etc. Something like\n> atttspec (ATTribute Type SPECification) is better, imho.\n> \n> For the varchar(N) we'll have attlen = -1 and atttspec = N (or N + 4 - what's\n> better). For the text: attlen = -1 and atttspec = -1. And so on.\n> \n> Of 'course, it's not so much matter where to put maxlen of varchar.\n> attlen = -1 for varchar just seems more clear to me.\n> \n> But in any case we need in new field and, imho, this should be added\n> in 6.3\n\nOK, we have a new pg_attribute column called 'atttypmod' for\n'type-specific modifier'. Currently, it is only used to hold the char\nand varchar length, but I am sure will be used soon for other types.\n\nHere is the test:\n\t\n\ttest=> insert into test values ('asdfasdfasdfasdfasdfadsfasdf11',3);\n\tINSERT 18282 1\n\ttest=> select * from test;\n\tx |y\n\t--------------------+-\n\tasdfasdfasdfasdfasdf|3\n\t(1 row)\n\n'attlen' was certainly a confusing double-used field that I am glad to\nreturn to single-use status.\n\nI will be installing the patch soon, and will then start on subselects\nin the parser. It will probably take me until Monday to finish that.\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 17:48:24 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Re: varchar() troubles (fwd)"},{"msg_contents":"Bruce Momjian wrote:\n> \n> OK, we have a new pg_attribute column called 'atttypmod' for\n> 'type-specific modifier'. Currently, it is only used to hold the char\n> and varchar length, but I am sure will be used soon for other types.\n\nNice!\n\n> \n> Here is the test:\n> \n> test=> insert into test values ('asdfasdfasdfasdfasdfadsfasdf11',3);\n> INSERT 18282 1\n> test=> select * from test;\n> x |y\n> --------------------+-\n> asdfasdfasdfasdfasdf|3\n> (1 row)\n> \n> 'attlen' was certainly a confusing double-used field that I am glad to\n> return to single-use status.\n> \n> I will be installing the patch soon, and will then start on subselects\n> in the parser. It will probably take me until Monday to finish that.\n\nOk.\n\nVadim\n","msg_date":"Sun, 18 Jan 1998 15:30:11 +0700","msg_from":"\"Vadim B. Mikheev\" <vadim@sable.krasnoyarsk.su>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Re: varchar() troubles (fwd)"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Forwarded message:\\n> > Why attlen should be -1 ?\\n> > attlen in pg_attribute for v in table t is 84, why run-time attlen\\n> > should be -1 ? How else maxlen constraint could be checked ?\\n> > IMHO, you have to change heap_getattr() to check is atttype == VARCHAROID\\n> > and use vl_len if yes. Also, other places where attlen is used must be \\n> > changed too - e.g. ExecEvalVar():\\n> > \\n> > {\\n> > len = tuple_type->attrs[attnum - 1]->attlen;\\n> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\\n> > byval = tuple_type->attrs[attnum - 1]->attbyval ? true : false;\\n> > }\\n> > \\n> > execConstByVal = byval;\\n> > execConstLen = len;\\n> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ - used in nodeHash.c\\n> > \\n> \\n> The major problem is that TupleDesc comes from several places, and\\n> attlen means several things.\\n> \\n> There are some cases where TupleDesc (int numatt, Attrs[]) is created\\n> on-the-fly (tupdesc.c), and the attlen is the length of the type. In\\n> other cases, we get attlen from opening the relation, heap_open(), and\\n> in these cases it is the length as defined for the particular attribute.\\n> \\n> Certainly a bad situation. I am not sure about a fix.\\n\\nOK, here is a temporary fix to the problem. It does the heap_open(),\\nthen replaces the attrs for VARCHAR with attlen of -1. You can't just\\nchange the field, because the data is in a cache and you are just\\nreturned a pointer.\\n\\nCan I add an 'attdeflen' for \\\"attributed defined length\\\" field to\\npg_attribute, and change the attlen references needed to the new field?\\nThis is the only proper way to fix it.\\n\\n\\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------\\n\\n*** ./backend/executor/execAmi.c.orig\\tThu Jan 15 22:42:13 1998\\n--- ./backend/executor/execAmi.c\\tThu Jan 15 23:54:37 1998\\n***************\\n*** 42,47 ****\\n--- 42,48 ----\\n #include \\\"access/genam.h\\\"\\n #include \\\"access/heapam.h\\\"\\n #include \\\"catalog/heap.h\\\"\\n+ #include \\\"catalog/pg_type.h\\\"\\n \\n static Pointer\\n ExecBeginScan(Relation relation, int nkeys, ScanKey skeys,\\n***************\\n*** 124,129 ****\\n--- 125,155 ----\\n \\tif (relation == NULL)\\n \\t\\telog(DEBUG, \\\"ExecOpenR: relation == NULL, heap_open failed.\\\");\\n \\n+ \\t{\\n+ \\t\\tint i;\\n+ \\t\\tRelation trel = palloc(sizeof(RelationData));\\n+ \\t\\tTupleDesc tdesc = palloc(sizeof(struct tupleDesc));\\n+ \\t\\tAttributeTupleForm *tatt =\\n+ \\t\\t\\t\\tpalloc(sizeof(AttributeTupleForm*)*relation->rd_att->natts);\\n+ \\n+ \\t\\tmemcpy(trel, relation, sizeof(RelationData));\\n+ \\t\\tmemcpy(tdesc, relation->rd_att, sizeof(struct tupleDesc));\\n+ \\t\\ttrel->rd_att = tdesc;\\n+ \\t\\ttdesc->attrs = tatt;\\n+ \\t\\t\\n+ \\t\\tfor (i = 0; i < relation->rd_att->natts; i++)\\n+ \\t\\t{\\n+ \\t\\t\\tif (relation->rd_att->attrs[i]->atttypid != VARCHAROID)\\n+ \\t\\t\\t\\ttdesc->attrs[i] = relation->rd_att->attrs[i];\\n+ \\t\\t\\telse\\n+ \\t\\t\\t{\\n+ \\t\\t\\t\\ttdesc->attrs[i] = palloc(sizeof(FormData_pg_attribute));\\n+ \\t\\t\\t\\tmemcpy(tdesc->attrs[i], relation->rd_att->attrs[i],\\n+ \\t\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t\\tsizeof(FormData_pg_attribute));\\n+ \\t\\t\\t\\ttdesc->attrs[i]->attlen = -1;\\n+ \\t\\t\\t}\\n+ \\t\\t}\\n+ \\t}\\n \\treturn relation;\\n }\\n \\n\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 00:05:03 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Re: varchar() troubles (fwd)\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> OK, here is a temporary fix to the problem. It does the heap_open(),\\n> then replaces the attrs for VARCHAR with attlen of -1. You can't just\\n> change the field, because the data is in a cache and you are just\\n> returned a pointer.\\n>\\n> Can I add an 'attdeflen' for \\\"attributed defined length\\\" field to\\n> pg_attribute, and change the attlen references needed to the new field?\\n> This is the only proper way to fix it.\\n\\nBruce, does your \\\"temporary fix\\\" seem to repair all known problems with varchar()? If so, would you be interested in\\nholding off on a \\\"proper fix\\\" and coming back to it after v6.3 is released? At that time, we can try solving the general\\nproblem of retaining column-specific attributes, such as your max len for varchar, declared dimensions for arrays, and\\nnumeric() and decimal() types. Or, if you have time to try a solution now _and_ come back to it later...\\n\\n - Tom\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 05:26:08 +0000\",\n \"msg_from\": \"\\\"Thomas G. Lockhart\\\" <lockhart@alumni.caltech.edu>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Re: varchar() troubles (fwd)\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> \\n> > OK, here is a temporary fix to the problem. It does the heap_open(),\\n> > then replaces the attrs for VARCHAR with attlen of -1. You can't just\\n> > change the field, because the data is in a cache and you are just\\n> > returned a pointer.\\n> >\\n> > Can I add an 'attdeflen' for \\\"attributed defined length\\\" field to\\n> > pg_attribute, and change the attlen references needed to the new field?\\n> > This is the only proper way to fix it.\\n> \\n\\n> Bruce, does your \\\"temporary fix\\\" seem to repair all known problems\\nwith varchar()? If so, would you be interested in > holding off on a\\n\\\"proper fix\\\" and coming back to it after v6.3 is released? At that time,\\nwe can try solving the general > problem of retaining column-specific\\nattributes, such as your max len for varchar, declared dimensions for\\narrays, and > numeric() and decimal() types. Or, if you have time to try\\na solution now _and_ come back to it later... > > \\n\\n[Those wide post really are difficult.]\\n\\nI don't think my solution is perfect or complete. I only caught one\\ngroup of heap_open calls used in the executor. I could funnel all of\\nthem through this patched function, but I can imagine there would be\\nones I would miss. Once the structure is gotten from the cache, it\\nseems to fly around the executor code quite freely, and it is hard to\\nknow when a tuple descriptor is being created, if it is being used for\\ndata creation or data reference. attlen references are much clearer in\\ntheir intent.\\n\\nIf I add a new field type to FormData_pg_attribute, I can then check\\neach attlen reference, and check if it is trying to move through the\\non-disk storage (attlen/typlen) or create a new/modify an entry\\n(attdeflen).\\n\\nHow much time I have depends on what Vadim needs me to do for\\nsubselects.\\n\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 00:44:11 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Re: varchar() troubles (fwd)\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> \\n> > OK, here is a temporary fix to the problem. It does the heap_open(),\\n> > then replaces the attrs for VARCHAR with attlen of -1. You can't just\\n> > change the field, because the data is in a cache and you are just\\n> > returned a pointer.\\n> >\\n> > Can I add an 'attdeflen' for \\\"attributed defined length\\\" field to\\n> > pg_attribute, and change the attlen references needed to the new field?\\n> > This is the only proper way to fix it.\\n> \\n> Bruce, does your \\\"temporary fix\\\" seem to repair all known problems with varchar()? If so, would you be interested in\\n> holding off on a \\\"proper fix\\\" and coming back to it after v6.3 is released? At that time, we can try solving the general\\n> problem of retaining column-specific attributes, such as your max len for varchar, declared dimensions for arrays, and\\n> numeric() and decimal() types. Or, if you have time to try a solution now _and_ come back to it later...\\n> \\n> - Tom\\n> \\n> \\n\\nIn fact, I am inclined to leave attlen unchanged, and add atttyplen that\\nis a copy of the length of the type. That way, the attlen for varchar()\\nreally contains the defined length, and atttyplen is used for disk\\nreferences, and it is very clear what it means.\\n\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 00:49:02 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Re: varchar() troubles (fwd)\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Bruce Momjian wrote:\\n> \\n> > >\\n> > > Can I add an 'attdeflen' for \\\"attributed defined length\\\" field to\\n> > > pg_attribute, and change the attlen references needed to the new field?\\n> > > This is the only proper way to fix it.\\n> >\\n> > Bruce, does your \\\"temporary fix\\\" seem to repair all known problems with varchar()? If so, would you be interested in\\n> > holding off on a \\\"proper fix\\\" and coming back to it after v6.3 is released? At that time, we can try solving the general\\n> > problem of retaining column-specific attributes, such as your max len for varchar, declared dimensions for arrays, and\\n> > numeric() and decimal() types. Or, if you have time to try a solution now _and_ come back to it later...\\n> >\\n> \\n> In fact, I am inclined to leave attlen unchanged, and add atttyplen that\\n> is a copy of the length of the type. That way, the attlen for varchar()\\n> really contains the defined length, and atttyplen is used for disk\\n> references, and it is very clear what it means.\\n\\npg_attribute.h:\\n\\n int2 attlen; \\n\\n /*\\n * attlen is a copy of the typlen field from pg_type for this\\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\\n * attribute... \\n ^^^^^^^^^\\n: I would suggest to don't change this to preserve the same meaning\\nfor all data types. attlen = -1 means that attribute is varlena.\\n\\nWe certainly need in new field in pg_attribute! I don't like names like\\n\\\"attdeflen\\\" or \\\"atttyplen\\\" - bad names for NUMERIC etc. Something like\\natttspec (ATTribute Type SPECification) is better, imho.\\n\\nFor the varchar(N) we'll have attlen = -1 and atttspec = N (or N + 4 - what's\\nbetter). For the text: attlen = -1 and atttspec = -1. And so on.\\n\\nOf 'course, it's not so much matter where to put maxlen of varchar.\\nattlen = -1 for varchar just seems more clear to me.\\n\\nBut in any case we need in new field and, imho, this should be added\\nin 6.3\\n\\nVadim\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:31:45 +0700\",\n \"msg_from\": \"\\\"Vadim B. Mikheev\\\" <vadim@sable.krasnoyarsk.su>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Re: varchar() troubles (fwd)\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> \\n> Bruce Momjian wrote:\\n> > \\n> > > >\\n> > > > Can I add an 'attdeflen' for \\\"attributed defined length\\\" field to\\n> > > > pg_attribute, and change the attlen references needed to the new field?\\n> > > > This is the only proper way to fix it.\\n> > >\\n> > > Bruce, does your \\\"temporary fix\\\" seem to repair all known problems with varchar()? If so, would you be interested in\\n> > > holding off on a \\\"proper fix\\\" and coming back to it after v6.3 is released? At that time, we can try solving the general\\n> > > problem of retaining column-specific attributes, such as your max len for varchar, declared dimensions for arrays, and\\n> > > numeric() and decimal() types. Or, if you have time to try a solution now _and_ come back to it later...\\n> > >\\n> > \\n> > In fact, I am inclined to leave attlen unchanged, and add atttyplen that\\n> > is a copy of the length of the type. That way, the attlen for varchar()\\n> > really contains the defined length, and atttyplen is used for disk\\n> > references, and it is very clear what it means.\\n> \\n> pg_attribute.h:\\n> \\n> int2 attlen; \\n> \\n> /*\\n> * attlen is a copy of the typlen field from pg_type for this\\n> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\\n> * attribute... \\n> ^^^^^^^^^\\n> : I would suggest to don't change this to preserve the same meaning\\n> for all data types. attlen = -1 means that attribute is varlena.\\n> \\n> We certainly need in new field in pg_attribute! I don't like names like\\n> \\\"attdeflen\\\" or \\\"atttyplen\\\" - bad names for NUMERIC etc. Something like\\n> atttspec (ATTribute Type SPECification) is better, imho.\\n> \\n> For the varchar(N) we'll have attlen = -1 and atttspec = N (or N + 4 - what's\\n> better). For the text: attlen = -1 and atttspec = -1. And so on.\\n> \\n> Of 'course, it's not so much matter where to put maxlen of varchar.\\n> attlen = -1 for varchar just seems more clear to me.\\n> \\n> But in any case we need in new field and, imho, this should be added\\n> in 6.3\\n\\nOK, we have a new pg_attribute column called 'atttypmod' for\\n'type-specific modifier'. Currently, it is only used to hold the char\\nand varchar length, but I am sure will be used soon for other types.\\n\\nHere is the test:\\n\\t\\n\\ttest=> insert into test values ('asdfasdfasdfasdfasdfadsfasdf11',3);\\n\\tINSERT 18282 1\\n\\ttest=> select * from test;\\n\\tx |y\\n\\t--------------------+-\\n\\tasdfasdfasdfasdfasdf|3\\n\\t(1 row)\\n\\n'attlen' was certainly a confusing double-used field that I am glad to\\nreturn to single-use status.\\n\\nI will be installing the patch soon, and will then start on subselects\\nin the parser. It will probably take me until Monday to finish that.\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 17:48:24 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Re: varchar() troubles (fwd)\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Bruce Momjian wrote:\\n> \\n> OK, we have a new pg_attribute column called 'atttypmod' for\\n> 'type-specific modifier'. Currently, it is only used to hold the char\\n> and varchar length, but I am sure will be used soon for other types.\\n\\nNice!\\n\\n> \\n> Here is the test:\\n> \\n> test=> insert into test values ('asdfasdfasdfasdfasdfadsfasdf11',3);\\n> INSERT 18282 1\\n> test=> select * from test;\\n> x |y\\n> --------------------+-\\n> asdfasdfasdfasdfasdf|3\\n> (1 row)\\n> \\n> 'attlen' was certainly a confusing double-used field that I am glad to\\n> return to single-use status.\\n> \\n> I will be installing the patch soon, and will then start on subselects\\n> in the parser. It will probably take me until Monday to finish that.\\n\\nOk.\\n\\nVadim\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sun, 18 Jan 1998 15:30:11 +0700\",\n \"msg_from\": \"\\\"Vadim B. Mikheev\\\" <vadim@sable.krasnoyarsk.su>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Re: varchar() troubles (fwd)\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":139,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"> scan.l: In function `yylex':\n> scan.l:202: `ABORT' undeclared (first use this function)\n\nSince the snapshot is intended for experienced (or wanting to become so)\npostgresql'ers\nthat would like to help the team and don't have CVS (like me on AIX),\nmaybe the snapshot shoud be moved to a development subdir ?\n\nThat said, it's not a bad build, only there seem to be some files\nincluded\nthat should not, like scan.c (that is outdated) .\nDo a 'make clean' before the make and everything is fine.\n\nAndreas\n","msg_date":"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:23:53 +0100","msg_from":"Zeugswetter Andreas DBT <Andreas.Zeugswetter@telecom.at>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Nope: Cannot build recent snapshot"},{"msg_contents":"> \n> > scan.l: In function `yylex':\n> > scan.l:202: `ABORT' undeclared (first use this function)\n> \n> Since the snapshot is intended for experienced (or wanting to become so)\n> postgresql'ers\n> that would like to help the team and don't have CVS (like me on AIX),\n> maybe the snapshot shoud be moved to a development subdir ?\n> \n> That said, it's not a bad build, only there seem to be some files\n> included\n> that should not, like scan.c (that is outdated) .\n> Do a 'make clean' before the make and everything is fine.\n\nWe include scan.c because some lex versions can't handle scan.l.\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:20:20 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Nope: Cannot build recent snapshot"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> scan.l: In function `yylex':\\n> scan.l:202: `ABORT' undeclared (first use this function)\\n\\nSince the snapshot is intended for experienced (or wanting to become so)\\npostgresql'ers\\nthat would like to help the team and don't have CVS (like me on AIX),\\nmaybe the snapshot shoud be moved to a development subdir ?\\n\\nThat said, it's not a bad build, only there seem to be some files\\nincluded\\nthat should not, like scan.c (that is outdated) .\\nDo a 'make clean' before the make and everything is fine.\\n\\nAndreas\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:23:53 +0100\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Zeugswetter Andreas DBT <Andreas.Zeugswetter@telecom.at>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Nope: Cannot build recent snapshot\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> \\n> > scan.l: In function `yylex':\\n> > scan.l:202: `ABORT' undeclared (first use this function)\\n> \\n> Since the snapshot is intended for experienced (or wanting to become so)\\n> postgresql'ers\\n> that would like to help the team and don't have CVS (like me on AIX),\\n> maybe the snapshot shoud be moved to a development subdir ?\\n> \\n> That said, it's not a bad build, only there seem to be some files\\n> included\\n> that should not, like scan.c (that is outdated) .\\n> Do a 'make clean' before the make and everything is fine.\\n\\nWe include scan.c because some lex versions can't handle scan.l.\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:20:20 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Nope: Cannot build recent snapshot\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":140,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":">> OIDs are a bastardization of the relational model. If you have to\nkeep\n>> them, then do so, but their use should be SEVERELY discouraged.\n>\n>\tActually, I use them quite extensively...I have several\nWWW-based\n>search directories that are searched with:\n>\n>select oid,<fields> from <table> where <search conditions>;\n>\n>\tThat display minimal data to the browser, and then if someone\n>wants more detailed information, I just do:\n>\n>select * from <table> where oid = '';\n>\n>\tIts also great if you mess up the original coding for a table\nand\n>want to remove 1 of many duplicates that you've accidently let pass\n>through :(\n\nSince OID is not a rowid (physical address) it needs an extra index,\nthat has to be built,\nfor what you state ROWID will be a lot better (since it don't need an\nindex)\nThis is on the TODO (something like add ctid to where clause)\n\nAndreas \n","msg_date":"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:34:29 +0100","msg_from":"Zeugswetter Andreas DBT <Andreas.Zeugswetter@telecom.at>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: [QUESTIONS] Arrays (inserting and removing)"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \">> OIDs are a bastardization of the relational model. If you have to\\nkeep\\n>> them, then do so, but their use should be SEVERELY discouraged.\\n>\\n>\\tActually, I use them quite extensively...I have several\\nWWW-based\\n>search directories that are searched with:\\n>\\n>select oid,<fields> from <table> where <search conditions>;\\n>\\n>\\tThat display minimal data to the browser, and then if someone\\n>wants more detailed information, I just do:\\n>\\n>select * from <table> where oid = '';\\n>\\n>\\tIts also great if you mess up the original coding for a table\\nand\\n>want to remove 1 of many duplicates that you've accidently let pass\\n>through :(\\n\\nSince OID is not a rowid (physical address) it needs an extra index,\\nthat has to be built,\\nfor what you state ROWID will be a lot better (since it don't need an\\nindex)\\nThis is on the TODO (something like add ctid to where clause)\\n\\nAndreas \\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:34:29 +0100\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Zeugswetter Andreas DBT <Andreas.Zeugswetter@telecom.at>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [QUESTIONS] Arrays (inserting and removing)\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":141,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"unsubscribe b.aerts@syntegra.net\n","msg_date":"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:29:07 +0100","msg_from":"bas aerts <b.aerts@syntegra.net>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"(no subject)"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"unsubscribe b.aerts@syntegra.net\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:29:07 +0100\",\n \"msg_from\": \"bas aerts <b.aerts@syntegra.net>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"(no subject)\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":142,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"unsubscribe pgsql-hackers\n","msg_date":"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:29:31 +0100","msg_from":"bas aerts <b.aerts@syntegra.net>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"(no subject)"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"unsubscribe pgsql-hackers\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:29:31 +0100\",\n \"msg_from\": \"bas aerts <b.aerts@syntegra.net>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"(no subject)\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":143,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"> > \n> > > Fork off the postgres process first, then authenticate\ninside of\n> > > there...which would get rid of the problem with pg_user itself\nbeing a\n> > > text file vs a relation...no?\n> > \n> > Yes, yes, yes. This is how authentication should be done (for HBA,\netc.)\n> \n> No, no, no! For security reasons, you can't fork (and exec)\n> unauthenticated processes. Especially HBA authentication should be\ndone\n> to consume as low resources as possbile.\n\nStartup time for a valid connect client is now < 0.16 secs, so is this\nreally a threat ?\nI would say might leave hba to postmaster (since postgres don't need to\nknow about it)\nthen fork off postgres and do the rest of the authentication. \n\nRunning postgres as root though is a **very** bad idea.\nRemember that we have user defined Functions !\n\nno, yes, yes \nAndreas\n","msg_date":"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:33:00 +0100","msg_from":"Zeugswetter Andreas DBT <Andreas.Zeugswetter@telecom.at>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Re: New pg_pwd patch and stuff"},{"msg_contents":"On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Zeugswetter Andreas DBT wrote:\n \n> Running postgres as root though is a **very** bad idea.\n> Remember that we have user defined Functions !\n\n\tpostmaster nor postgres will run as root, so I'm not sure where\nyou are coming up with a \"Running postgres as root...\" problem :(\n\n\n","msg_date":"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 08:08:02 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Re: New pg_pwd patch and stuff"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> > \\n> > > Fork off the postgres process first, then authenticate\\ninside of\\n> > > there...which would get rid of the problem with pg_user itself\\nbeing a\\n> > > text file vs a relation...no?\\n> > \\n> > Yes, yes, yes. This is how authentication should be done (for HBA,\\netc.)\\n> \\n> No, no, no! For security reasons, you can't fork (and exec)\\n> unauthenticated processes. Especially HBA authentication should be\\ndone\\n> to consume as low resources as possbile.\\n\\nStartup time for a valid connect client is now < 0.16 secs, so is this\\nreally a threat ?\\nI would say might leave hba to postmaster (since postgres don't need to\\nknow about it)\\nthen fork off postgres and do the rest of the authentication. \\n\\nRunning postgres as root though is a **very** bad idea.\\nRemember that we have user defined Functions !\\n\\nno, yes, yes \\nAndreas\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:33:00 +0100\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Zeugswetter Andreas DBT <Andreas.Zeugswetter@telecom.at>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Re: New pg_pwd patch and stuff\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Zeugswetter Andreas DBT wrote:\\n \\n> Running postgres as root though is a **very** bad idea.\\n> Remember that we have user defined Functions !\\n\\n\\tpostmaster nor postgres will run as root, so I'm not sure where\\nyou are coming up with a \\\"Running postgres as root...\\\" problem :(\\n\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 08:08:02 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Re: New pg_pwd patch and stuff\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":144,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"\nAnother *cool* project would be a LDAPd front-end to PgSQL,\nor perhaps rather a PgSQL-backend to SLAPD.\n\nI am planning to look into this when I got the neccesary time,\nbut feel free to start ahead of me if you like the idea.\n\n happy hacking,\n-- \n---------------------------------------------\nG�ran Thyni, sysadm, JMS Bildbasen, Kiruna\n\n","msg_date":"16 Jan 1998 13:21:08 -0000","msg_from":"Goran Thyni <goran@bildbasen.se>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"LDAP (was: CBAC ...)"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\nAnother *cool* project would be a LDAPd front-end to PgSQL,\\nor perhaps rather a PgSQL-backend to SLAPD.\\n\\nI am planning to look into this when I got the neccesary time,\\nbut feel free to start ahead of me if you like the idea.\\n\\n happy hacking,\\n-- \\n---------------------------------------------\\nG�ran Thyni, sysadm, JMS Bildbasen, Kiruna\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"16 Jan 1998 13:21:08 -0000\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Goran Thyni <goran@bildbasen.se>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"LDAP (was: CBAC ...)\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":145,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"> On 12-Jan-98 The Hermit Hacker wrote:\n> > Does anyone here *understand* the LGPL? If we put the ODBC\n> >drivers *under* src/interfaces, does that risk contaminating the rest of\n> >the code *in any way*? Anyone here done a reasonably thorough study of\n> >the LGPL and can comment on it?\n> \n> My understanding from Stallman's statements on the matter are: Distribution of\n> GPL'd source with non-GPL'd source is fine, as long as it is simple to figure\n> out which is which. By definition, GPL'd sources can be distributed freely.\n> For binaries which fall under the GPL, again, mixing them with other stuff is\n> OK, as long as GPL'd stuff is identified as such. Sources must be available,\n> of course.\n> \n> LGPL is completely different. LGPL is what you use when you link your\n> non-GPL'd sources against a library built with GPL'd sources. In that case,\n> you are legal IFF you stuff can be re-linked against a different, non-GPL'd\n> library without recompilation. Actually, there's a bit of confusion on my\n> part about how much recompilation is permitted.\n> \n> Companies like DG/Sequent/Sun/etc wouldn't be able to include FSF software on\n> the distributions if the above were not the case.\n> \n> ObCaveat: I'm not a lawyer. I don't look like a lawyer, I don't smell like a\n> lawyer, and I don't lie like a lawyer.\n> \n> \nMy understanding is pretty much the same. Originally there was only GPL. This\nreally says that anything you link with GPL code must be distributed under\nGPL - effectively your source becomes part of the original GPL'd product.\n\nClearly this is ridiculous when you are linking against, say, the GNU\nC-library, so Stallman introduced LGPL which effectively says that any\nmodifications or additions you make to the library fall under the LGPL,\nbut anything which calls the LGPL'd library can have whatever copyright\nyou want. Thus it is possible to produce commercial products which use\nthe GNU C-library, etc., etc.\n\n\nAndrew\n\n(Same caveat as above :-)\n\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nDr. Andrew C.R. Martin University College London\nEMAIL: (Work) martin@biochem.ucl.ac.uk (Home) andrew@stagleys.demon.co.uk\nURL: http://www.biochem.ucl.ac.uk/~martin\nTel: (Work) +44(0)171 419 3890 (Home) +44(0)1372 275775\n","msg_date":"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 15:06:12 GMT","msg_from":"Andrew Martin <martin@biochemistry.ucl.ac.uk>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"RE: [HACKERS] ODBC & LGPL license..."},{"msg_contents":"On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Andrew Martin wrote:\n\n> > On 12-Jan-98 The Hermit Hacker wrote:\n> > > Does anyone here *understand* the LGPL? If we put the ODBC\n> > >drivers *under* src/interfaces, does that risk contaminating the rest of\n> > >the code *in any way*? Anyone here done a reasonably thorough study of\n> > >the LGPL and can comment on it?\n> > \n> > My understanding from Stallman's statements on the matter are: Distribution of\n> > GPL'd source with non-GPL'd source is fine, as long as it is simple to figure\n> > out which is which. By definition, GPL'd sources can be distributed freely.\n> > For binaries which fall under the GPL, again, mixing them with other stuff is\n> > OK, as long as GPL'd stuff is identified as such. Sources must be available,\n> > of course.\n> > \n> > LGPL is completely different. LGPL is what you use when you link your\n> > non-GPL'd sources against a library built with GPL'd sources. In that case,\n> > you are legal IFF you stuff can be re-linked against a different, non-GPL'd\n> > library without recompilation. Actually, there's a bit of confusion on my\n> > part about how much recompilation is permitted.\n> > \n> > Companies like DG/Sequent/Sun/etc wouldn't be able to include FSF software on\n> > the distributions if the above were not the case.\n> > \n> > ObCaveat: I'm not a lawyer. I don't look like a lawyer, I don't smell like a\n> > lawyer, and I don't lie like a lawyer.\n> > \n> > \n> My understanding is pretty much the same. Originally there was only GPL. This\n> really says that anything you link with GPL code must be distributed under\n> GPL - effectively your source becomes part of the original GPL'd product.\n> \n> Clearly this is ridiculous when you are linking against, say, the GNU\n> C-library, so Stallman introduced LGPL which effectively says that any\n> modifications or additions you make to the library fall under the LGPL,\n> but anything which calls the LGPL'd library can have whatever copyright\n> you want. Thus it is possible to produce commercial products which use\n> the GNU C-library, etc., etc.\n\n\tOkay, then going back to the original...the PostODBC drivers that\nI'd like to include as part of the src/interfaces directory falls under\nLGPL...if we did include it, then we wouldn't/shouldn't be contaminating\nthe source tree in any way?\n\n\n\n","msg_date":"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:41:09 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"RE: [HACKERS] ODBC & LGPL license..."}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> On 12-Jan-98 The Hermit Hacker wrote:\\n> > Does anyone here *understand* the LGPL? If we put the ODBC\\n> >drivers *under* src/interfaces, does that risk contaminating the rest of\\n> >the code *in any way*? Anyone here done a reasonably thorough study of\\n> >the LGPL and can comment on it?\\n> \\n> My understanding from Stallman's statements on the matter are: Distribution of\\n> GPL'd source with non-GPL'd source is fine, as long as it is simple to figure\\n> out which is which. By definition, GPL'd sources can be distributed freely.\\n> For binaries which fall under the GPL, again, mixing them with other stuff is\\n> OK, as long as GPL'd stuff is identified as such. Sources must be available,\\n> of course.\\n> \\n> LGPL is completely different. LGPL is what you use when you link your\\n> non-GPL'd sources against a library built with GPL'd sources. In that case,\\n> you are legal IFF you stuff can be re-linked against a different, non-GPL'd\\n> library without recompilation. Actually, there's a bit of confusion on my\\n> part about how much recompilation is permitted.\\n> \\n> Companies like DG/Sequent/Sun/etc wouldn't be able to include FSF software on\\n> the distributions if the above were not the case.\\n> \\n> ObCaveat: I'm not a lawyer. I don't look like a lawyer, I don't smell like a\\n> lawyer, and I don't lie like a lawyer.\\n> \\n> \\nMy understanding is pretty much the same. Originally there was only GPL. This\\nreally says that anything you link with GPL code must be distributed under\\nGPL - effectively your source becomes part of the original GPL'd product.\\n\\nClearly this is ridiculous when you are linking against, say, the GNU\\nC-library, so Stallman introduced LGPL which effectively says that any\\nmodifications or additions you make to the library fall under the LGPL,\\nbut anything which calls the LGPL'd library can have whatever copyright\\nyou want. Thus it is possible to produce commercial products which use\\nthe GNU C-library, etc., etc.\\n\\n\\nAndrew\\n\\n(Same caveat as above :-)\\n\\n\\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\\nDr. Andrew C.R. Martin University College London\\nEMAIL: (Work) martin@biochem.ucl.ac.uk (Home) andrew@stagleys.demon.co.uk\\nURL: http://www.biochem.ucl.ac.uk/~martin\\nTel: (Work) +44(0)171 419 3890 (Home) +44(0)1372 275775\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 15:06:12 GMT\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Andrew Martin <martin@biochemistry.ucl.ac.uk>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"RE: [HACKERS] ODBC & LGPL license...\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Andrew Martin wrote:\\n\\n> > On 12-Jan-98 The Hermit Hacker wrote:\\n> > > Does anyone here *understand* the LGPL? If we put the ODBC\\n> > >drivers *under* src/interfaces, does that risk contaminating the rest of\\n> > >the code *in any way*? Anyone here done a reasonably thorough study of\\n> > >the LGPL and can comment on it?\\n> > \\n> > My understanding from Stallman's statements on the matter are: Distribution of\\n> > GPL'd source with non-GPL'd source is fine, as long as it is simple to figure\\n> > out which is which. By definition, GPL'd sources can be distributed freely.\\n> > For binaries which fall under the GPL, again, mixing them with other stuff is\\n> > OK, as long as GPL'd stuff is identified as such. Sources must be available,\\n> > of course.\\n> > \\n> > LGPL is completely different. LGPL is what you use when you link your\\n> > non-GPL'd sources against a library built with GPL'd sources. In that case,\\n> > you are legal IFF you stuff can be re-linked against a different, non-GPL'd\\n> > library without recompilation. Actually, there's a bit of confusion on my\\n> > part about how much recompilation is permitted.\\n> > \\n> > Companies like DG/Sequent/Sun/etc wouldn't be able to include FSF software on\\n> > the distributions if the above were not the case.\\n> > \\n> > ObCaveat: I'm not a lawyer. I don't look like a lawyer, I don't smell like a\\n> > lawyer, and I don't lie like a lawyer.\\n> > \\n> > \\n> My understanding is pretty much the same. Originally there was only GPL. This\\n> really says that anything you link with GPL code must be distributed under\\n> GPL - effectively your source becomes part of the original GPL'd product.\\n> \\n> Clearly this is ridiculous when you are linking against, say, the GNU\\n> C-library, so Stallman introduced LGPL which effectively says that any\\n> modifications or additions you make to the library fall under the LGPL,\\n> but anything which calls the LGPL'd library can have whatever copyright\\n> you want. Thus it is possible to produce commercial products which use\\n> the GNU C-library, etc., etc.\\n\\n\\tOkay, then going back to the original...the PostODBC drivers that\\nI'd like to include as part of the src/interfaces directory falls under\\nLGPL...if we did include it, then we wouldn't/shouldn't be contaminating\\nthe source tree in any way?\\n\\n\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:41:09 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"RE: [HACKERS] ODBC & LGPL license...\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":146,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"> Got my Linux Journal today and the first featured article is entitled\n> \n> \"PostgreSQL - The Linux of Databases\"\n> \n> Now scrappy, before you get bent out of joint, they mean this in a nice\n> way ;-)\n> \n> The author is Rolf Herzog from Germany. It seems like a good article,\n> with a few factual errors but on the whole complimentary without\n> ignoring the weak points (yes Bruce, subselects are mentioned).\n> \nHaven't seen it yet - guess my copy will arrive any day. It does seem\na shame that an article like this came from someone who isn't active on\nany of these lists (AFAIK). Maybe he could have posted the article here\nso any factual errors could have been pointed out before it went\nto LJ.\n\nLJ have featured PG/SQL on a couple of previous occassions --- it really\nis a very good Unix magazine; an awful lot of it is far from Linux\nspecific.\n\nBest Wishes,\n\nAndrew\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nDr. Andrew C.R. Martin University College London\nEMAIL: (Work) martin@biochem.ucl.ac.uk (Home) andrew@stagleys.demon.co.uk\nURL: http://www.biochem.ucl.ac.uk/~martin\nTel: (Work) +44(0)171 419 3890 (Home) +44(0)1372 275775\n","msg_date":"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 15:25:35 GMT","msg_from":"Andrew Martin <martin@biochemistry.ucl.ac.uk>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Linux Journal article on PostgreSQL"},{"msg_contents":"On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Andrew Martin wrote:\n\n> > Got my Linux Journal today and the first featured article is entitled\n> > \n> > \"PostgreSQL - The Linux of Databases\"\n> > \n> > Now scrappy, before you get bent out of joint, they mean this in a nice\n> > way ;-)\n> > \n> > The author is Rolf Herzog from Germany. It seems like a good article,\n> > with a few factual errors but on the whole complimentary without\n> > ignoring the weak points (yes Bruce, subselects are mentioned).\n> > \n> Haven't seen it yet - guess my copy will arrive any day. It does seem\n> a shame that an article like this came from someone who isn't active on\n> any of these lists (AFAIK). Maybe he could have posted the article here\n> so any factual errors could have been pointed out before it went\n> to LJ.\n\n\tI'm borrowing a copy from one of the profs here at the University,\nbut from Thomas' \"review\", sounds like he was pretty accurate :)\n\n\n","msg_date":"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:44:24 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Linux Journal article on PostgreSQL"},{"msg_contents":"> > Got my Linux Journal today and the first featured article is entitled\n> > \"PostgreSQL - The Linux of Databases\"\n> Haven't seen it yet - guess my copy will arrive any day. It does seem\n> a shame that an article like this came from someone who isn't active on\n> any of these lists (AFAIK). Maybe he could have posted the article here\n> so any factual errors could have been pointed out before it went\n> to LJ.\n\nYes, that was my initial reaction too. However, to look at it another way, it\nis great that someone, who is not as wrapped up in Postgres as those of us\nactive on the lists seem to be, can look at it, use it, and say nice things\nabout it. I have _never_ seen an article written about something with which I\nam familiar which seemed to be 100% correct, except (perhaps :) in refereed\njournals.\n\n - Tom\n\n","msg_date":"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:23:10 +0000","msg_from":"\"Thomas G. Lockhart\" <lockhart@alumni.caltech.edu>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Linux Journal article on PostgreSQL"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> Got my Linux Journal today and the first featured article is entitled\\n> \\n> \\\"PostgreSQL - The Linux of Databases\\\"\\n> \\n> Now scrappy, before you get bent out of joint, they mean this in a nice\\n> way ;-)\\n> \\n> The author is Rolf Herzog from Germany. It seems like a good article,\\n> with a few factual errors but on the whole complimentary without\\n> ignoring the weak points (yes Bruce, subselects are mentioned).\\n> \\nHaven't seen it yet - guess my copy will arrive any day. It does seem\\na shame that an article like this came from someone who isn't active on\\nany of these lists (AFAIK). Maybe he could have posted the article here\\nso any factual errors could have been pointed out before it went\\nto LJ.\\n\\nLJ have featured PG/SQL on a couple of previous occassions --- it really\\nis a very good Unix magazine; an awful lot of it is far from Linux\\nspecific.\\n\\nBest Wishes,\\n\\nAndrew\\n\\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\\nDr. Andrew C.R. Martin University College London\\nEMAIL: (Work) martin@biochem.ucl.ac.uk (Home) andrew@stagleys.demon.co.uk\\nURL: http://www.biochem.ucl.ac.uk/~martin\\nTel: (Work) +44(0)171 419 3890 (Home) +44(0)1372 275775\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 15:25:35 GMT\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Andrew Martin <martin@biochemistry.ucl.ac.uk>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Linux Journal article on PostgreSQL\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Andrew Martin wrote:\\n\\n> > Got my Linux Journal today and the first featured article is entitled\\n> > \\n> > \\\"PostgreSQL - The Linux of Databases\\\"\\n> > \\n> > Now scrappy, before you get bent out of joint, they mean this in a nice\\n> > way ;-)\\n> > \\n> > The author is Rolf Herzog from Germany. It seems like a good article,\\n> > with a few factual errors but on the whole complimentary without\\n> > ignoring the weak points (yes Bruce, subselects are mentioned).\\n> > \\n> Haven't seen it yet - guess my copy will arrive any day. It does seem\\n> a shame that an article like this came from someone who isn't active on\\n> any of these lists (AFAIK). Maybe he could have posted the article here\\n> so any factual errors could have been pointed out before it went\\n> to LJ.\\n\\n\\tI'm borrowing a copy from one of the profs here at the University,\\nbut from Thomas' \\\"review\\\", sounds like he was pretty accurate :)\\n\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:44:24 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Linux Journal article on PostgreSQL\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> > Got my Linux Journal today and the first featured article is entitled\\n> > \\\"PostgreSQL - The Linux of Databases\\\"\\n> Haven't seen it yet - guess my copy will arrive any day. It does seem\\n> a shame that an article like this came from someone who isn't active on\\n> any of these lists (AFAIK). Maybe he could have posted the article here\\n> so any factual errors could have been pointed out before it went\\n> to LJ.\\n\\nYes, that was my initial reaction too. However, to look at it another way, it\\nis great that someone, who is not as wrapped up in Postgres as those of us\\nactive on the lists seem to be, can look at it, use it, and say nice things\\nabout it. I have _never_ seen an article written about something with which I\\nam familiar which seemed to be 100% correct, except (perhaps :) in refereed\\njournals.\\n\\n - Tom\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:23:10 +0000\",\n \"msg_from\": \"\\\"Thomas G. Lockhart\\\" <lockhart@alumni.caltech.edu>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Linux Journal article on PostgreSQL\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":147,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"> On Thu, Jan 15, 1998 at 09:27:21AM +0700, Vadim B. Mikheev wrote:\n> > The Hermit Hacker wrote:\n> > > \n> > > On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, Ralf Mattes wrote:\n> > > \n> > > > Yes, i agree. Mike's implementation is the way to go in a traditional\n> > > > realtional db (BTW, a question about oids: lurking on this list\n> > > > i overheard the idea of dropping oids. This would break a lot\n> > > > of my code! What's the last word on this ?).\n> > > \n> > > The last we discussed in pgsql-hackers was that OIDs would not be\n> > > dropped...\n> > \n> > ..but would be optional.\n> > \n> > Vadim\n> > \n> \n> OIDs are a bastardization of the relational model. If you have to keep\n> them, then do so, but their use should be SEVERELY discouraged.\n> \n> Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin\n\nSo what if they are a \"bastardization of the relational model\". If they\nare the best way of solving a problem, then they should be used. Most people\nwho use RDBMSs for real work find that the purity of the relational model\nhas to be compromised for efficiency (e.g. creating combined columns, so\nyour queries don't need dozens of ANDs). Having something like OIDs to\ndefine relationships between rows in a table can be the only way to solve\ncertain problems.\n\nAndrew\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nDr. Andrew C.R. Martin University College London\nEMAIL: (Work) martin@biochem.ucl.ac.uk (Home) andrew@stagleys.demon.co.uk\nURL: http://www.biochem.ucl.ac.uk/~martin\nTel: (Work) +44(0)171 419 3890 (Home) +44(0)1372 275775\n","msg_date":"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 15:29:23 GMT","msg_from":"Andrew Martin <martin@biochemistry.ucl.ac.uk>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Re: [QUESTIONS] Arrays (inserting and removing)"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> On Thu, Jan 15, 1998 at 09:27:21AM +0700, Vadim B. Mikheev wrote:\\n> > The Hermit Hacker wrote:\\n> > > \\n> > > On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, Ralf Mattes wrote:\\n> > > \\n> > > > Yes, i agree. Mike's implementation is the way to go in a traditional\\n> > > > realtional db (BTW, a question about oids: lurking on this list\\n> > > > i overheard the idea of dropping oids. This would break a lot\\n> > > > of my code! What's the last word on this ?).\\n> > > \\n> > > The last we discussed in pgsql-hackers was that OIDs would not be\\n> > > dropped...\\n> > \\n> > ..but would be optional.\\n> > \\n> > Vadim\\n> > \\n> \\n> OIDs are a bastardization of the relational model. If you have to keep\\n> them, then do so, but their use should be SEVERELY discouraged.\\n> \\n> Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin\\n\\nSo what if they are a \\\"bastardization of the relational model\\\". If they\\nare the best way of solving a problem, then they should be used. Most people\\nwho use RDBMSs for real work find that the purity of the relational model\\nhas to be compromised for efficiency (e.g. creating combined columns, so\\nyour queries don't need dozens of ANDs). Having something like OIDs to\\ndefine relationships between rows in a table can be the only way to solve\\ncertain problems.\\n\\nAndrew\\n\\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\\nDr. Andrew C.R. Martin University College London\\nEMAIL: (Work) martin@biochem.ucl.ac.uk (Home) andrew@stagleys.demon.co.uk\\nURL: http://www.biochem.ucl.ac.uk/~martin\\nTel: (Work) +44(0)171 419 3890 (Home) +44(0)1372 275775\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 15:29:23 GMT\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Andrew Martin <martin@biochemistry.ucl.ac.uk>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Re: [QUESTIONS] Arrays (inserting and removing)\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":148,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"> > The remaining part of the patch is to force the undefinition of\n> > HAVE_INT_TIMEZONE; again this is glibc2-specific, but I don't know\n> > any reason to suppose it wouldn't be needed on any machine with glibc2.\n> > \n> > It would really be helpful to have someone on a non-Linux machine test\n> > it; but is there anyone?\n> \n> Our code is complicated enough without adding patches for OS bugs. A\n> good place for the patch is the Linux FAQ. If it really becomes a\n> problem, we can put the patch as a separate file in the distribution,\n> and mention it in the INSTALL instructions. If you really want to get\n> fancy, as I did with the flex bug, you can run a test at compile time to\n> see if the bug exists.\n> \n> -- \n> Bruce Momjian\n> maillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n> \n\nIf someone can mail me an exact description of the problem with info on\nthe setup which shows it AND the patch info, then I'll add it to the\nLinux-specific FAQ. (Much like the ld bug in Irix-6 has a patch\ndescription in the Irix-FAQ).\n\n\nBets wishes,\n\nAndrew\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nDr. Andrew C.R. Martin University College London\nEMAIL: (Work) martin@biochem.ucl.ac.uk (Home) andrew@stagleys.demon.co.uk\nURL: http://www.biochem.ucl.ac.uk/~martin\nTel: (Work) +44(0)171 419 3890 (Home) +44(0)1372 275775\n","msg_date":"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 15:52:51 GMT","msg_from":"Andrew Martin <martin@biochemistry.ucl.ac.uk>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Patch for glibc2 date problems"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> > The remaining part of the patch is to force the undefinition of\\n> > HAVE_INT_TIMEZONE; again this is glibc2-specific, but I don't know\\n> > any reason to suppose it wouldn't be needed on any machine with glibc2.\\n> > \\n> > It would really be helpful to have someone on a non-Linux machine test\\n> > it; but is there anyone?\\n> \\n> Our code is complicated enough without adding patches for OS bugs. A\\n> good place for the patch is the Linux FAQ. If it really becomes a\\n> problem, we can put the patch as a separate file in the distribution,\\n> and mention it in the INSTALL instructions. If you really want to get\\n> fancy, as I did with the flex bug, you can run a test at compile time to\\n> see if the bug exists.\\n> \\n> -- \\n> Bruce Momjian\\n> maillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n> \\n\\nIf someone can mail me an exact description of the problem with info on\\nthe setup which shows it AND the patch info, then I'll add it to the\\nLinux-specific FAQ. (Much like the ld bug in Irix-6 has a patch\\ndescription in the Irix-FAQ).\\n\\n\\nBets wishes,\\n\\nAndrew\\n\\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\\nDr. Andrew C.R. Martin University College London\\nEMAIL: (Work) martin@biochem.ucl.ac.uk (Home) andrew@stagleys.demon.co.uk\\nURL: http://www.biochem.ucl.ac.uk/~martin\\nTel: (Work) +44(0)171 419 3890 (Home) +44(0)1372 275775\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 15:52:51 GMT\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Andrew Martin <martin@biochemistry.ucl.ac.uk>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Patch for glibc2 date problems\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":149,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"> > > ObCaveat: I'm not a lawyer. I don't look like a lawyer, I don't smell like a\n> > > lawyer, and I don't lie like a lawyer.\n> > > \n> > > \n> > My understanding is pretty much the same. Originally there was only GPL. This\n> > really says that anything you link with GPL code must be distributed under\n> > GPL - effectively your source becomes part of the original GPL'd product.\n> > \n> > Clearly this is ridiculous when you are linking against, say, the GNU\n> > C-library, so Stallman introduced LGPL which effectively says that any\n> > modifications or additions you make to the library fall under the LGPL,\n> > but anything which calls the LGPL'd library can have whatever copyright\n> > you want. Thus it is possible to produce commercial products which use\n> > the GNU C-library, etc., etc.\n> \n> \tOkay, then going back to the original...the PostODBC drivers that\n> I'd like to include as part of the src/interfaces directory falls under\n> LGPL...if we did include it, then we wouldn't/shouldn't be contaminating\n> the source tree in any way?\n> \n> \n> \nI'm sure that's OK. Just been reading the LGPL again. Here are some salient\nparagraphs with comments:\n\n\n\n!!! From the Preamble:\nThe reason we have a separate public license for some libraries is that they blur the distinction we\nusually make between modifying or adding to a program and simply using it. Linking a program\nwith a library, without changing the library, is in some sense simply using the library, and is\nanalogous to running a utility program or application program. However, in a textual and legal\nsense, the linked executable is a combined work, a derivative of the original library, and the\nordinary General Public License treats it as such. \n\nBecause of this blurred distinction, using the ordinary General Public License for libraries did not\neffectively promote software sharing, because most developers did not use the libraries. We\nconcluded that weaker conditions might promote sharing better. \n\nHowever, unrestricted linking of non-free programs would deprive the users of those programs of\nall benefit from the free status of the libraries themselves. This Library General Public License is\nintended to permit developers of non-free programs to use free libraries, while preserving your\nfreedom as a user of such programs to change the free libraries that are incorporated in them. (We\nhave not seen how to achieve this as regards changes in header files, but we have achieved it as\nregards changes in the actual functions of the Library.) The hope is that this will lead to faster\ndevelopment of free libraries. \n\n\n\n\nFor \"non-free programs\" one should really read \"programs not distributed \nunder the GPL\".\n\nHere is the critical part from Section 2 of the LGPL:\n\n\n\n\n!!! From Section 2:\nThese requirements apply to the modified work as a whole. If identifiable sections of that work are\nnot derived from the Library, and can be reasonably considered independent and separate works in\nthemselves, then this License, and its terms, do not apply to those sections when you distribute\nthem as separate works. But when you distribute the same sections as part of a whole which is a\nwork based on the Library, the distribution of the whole must be on the terms of this License,\nwhose permissions for other licensees extend to the entire whole, and thus to each and every part\nregardless of who wrote it. \n\nThus, it is not the intent of this section to claim rights or contest your rights to work written\nentirely by you; rather, the intent is to exercise the right to control the distribution of derivative or\ncollective works based on the Library. \n\nIn addition, mere aggregation of another work not based on the Library with the Library (or with a\nwork based on the Library) on a volume of a storage or distribution medium does not bring the\nother work under the scope of this License. \n\n\n\n\n\nIt really relies upon the distinction between what is \"the library\" and what is a\n\"separate work\" (i.e. PostgreSQL) which happens to make use of the library.\n\nBut what really applies to us is Section 5:\n\n\n\n\n!!! From Section 5:\n5. A program that contains no derivative of any portion of the Library, but is designed to work\nwith the Library by being compiled or linked with it, is called a \"work that uses the Library\". Such\na work, in isolation, is not a derivative work of the Library, and therefore falls outside the scope of\nthis License. \n\n\n\n\n\ni.e. the PostgreSQL source remains under our copyright.\nBut then:\n\n\n\n\n!!! From Section 5:\nHowever, linking a \"work that uses the Library\" with the Library creates an executable that is a\nderivative of the Library (because it contains portions of the Library), rather than a \"work that uses\nthe library\". The executable is therefore covered by this License. Section 6 states terms for\ndistribution of such executables. \n\n\n\n\n\nWe don't normally distribute executables, so that's not a problem.\nIn any case, this is simply a legal definition since, as Section 6\nstates:\n\n\n\n\n!!! From Section 6:\n6. As an exception to the Sections above, you may also compile or link a \"work that uses the\nLibrary\" with the Library to produce a work containing portions of the Library, and distribute that\nwork under terms of your choice, provided that the terms permit modification of the work for the\ncustomer's own use and reverse engineering for debugging such modifications. \n\n\n\n\nWe allow all that, so it's not a problem (though this would appear to \nrestrict commercial products which are certainly available!). I guess,\nhowever, that these are linked to use shared libraries.\n\nHowever, this section then appears to contradict itself as it then says:\n\n\n\n\n!!! From Section 6:\n...Also, you must do one of these things:\n a) Accompany the work with the complete corresponding machine-readable source code for\n the Library including whatever changes were used in the work (which must be distributed\n under Sections 1 and 2 above); and, if the work is an executable linked with the Library, with\n the complete machine-readable \"work that uses the Library\", as object code and/or source\n code, so that the user can modify the Library and then relink to produce a modified\n executable containing the modified Library. (It is understood that the user who changes the\n contents of definitions files in the Library will not necessarily be able to recompile the\n application to use the modified definitions.) \n\n\n\n\n\nHere, you only need to supply the object code such that you can \nmodify *the library* not the \"work that uses the Library\" whereas\nthe first part of Section 6 implies that you must be able to\nmodify the \"work that uses the Library\". Commercial offerings\nclearly rely on this being the clause they follow. By linking\nwith an LGPL'd library dynamically, they also don't need to\nsupply object code as you are fulfilling the requirement that\nyou can link with a modified version of the library.\n\n\n\nIn summary (remembering that I am not a lawyer), it appears that\nthe LGPL certainly does not \"pollute\" our code, but to use an LGPL\nlibrary we need to satisfy certain conditions concerning distribution.\nSince the licence which we give is even more free than LGPL and\nwe do satisfy all these requirements, it really is not a problem.\n\nThe only restriction I can see if for third parties who wish to\nuse PostgreSQL for some commercial product which they then wish\nto sell. They must satisfy the requirements of the LGPL when they\nsell that product if they link PostgreSQL with the LGPL'd library.\nThus having a compile time option to include (or not) the LGPL'd\nODBC stuff would seem like a sensible option. \n\n\nIf the ODBC stuff is simply a stand-alone library (which uses the \nPostgreSQL libraries) rather than being linked into PostgreSQL \nitself, then there really is no problem whatsoever, as this would\nthen be a simple aggregation of work. From Section 2:\n\nIn addition, mere aggregation of another work not based on the Library with the Library (or with a\nwork based on the Library) on a volume of a storage or distribution medium does not bring the\nother work under the scope of this License. \n\n\n\nAndrew\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nDr. Andrew C.R. Martin University College London\nEMAIL: (Work) martin@biochem.ucl.ac.uk (Home) andrew@stagleys.demon.co.uk\nURL: http://www.biochem.ucl.ac.uk/~martin\nTel: (Work) +44(0)171 419 3890 (Home) +44(0)1372 275775\n","msg_date":"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:27:44 GMT","msg_from":"Andrew Martin <martin@biochemistry.ucl.ac.uk>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"RE: [HACKERS] ODBC & LGPL license..."}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> > > ObCaveat: I'm not a lawyer. I don't look like a lawyer, I don't smell like a\\n> > > lawyer, and I don't lie like a lawyer.\\n> > > \\n> > > \\n> > My understanding is pretty much the same. Originally there was only GPL. This\\n> > really says that anything you link with GPL code must be distributed under\\n> > GPL - effectively your source becomes part of the original GPL'd product.\\n> > \\n> > Clearly this is ridiculous when you are linking against, say, the GNU\\n> > C-library, so Stallman introduced LGPL which effectively says that any\\n> > modifications or additions you make to the library fall under the LGPL,\\n> > but anything which calls the LGPL'd library can have whatever copyright\\n> > you want. Thus it is possible to produce commercial products which use\\n> > the GNU C-library, etc., etc.\\n> \\n> \\tOkay, then going back to the original...the PostODBC drivers that\\n> I'd like to include as part of the src/interfaces directory falls under\\n> LGPL...if we did include it, then we wouldn't/shouldn't be contaminating\\n> the source tree in any way?\\n> \\n> \\n> \\nI'm sure that's OK. Just been reading the LGPL again. Here are some salient\\nparagraphs with comments:\\n\\n\\n\\n!!! From the Preamble:\\nThe reason we have a separate public license for some libraries is that they blur the distinction we\\nusually make between modifying or adding to a program and simply using it. Linking a program\\nwith a library, without changing the library, is in some sense simply using the library, and is\\nanalogous to running a utility program or application program. However, in a textual and legal\\nsense, the linked executable is a combined work, a derivative of the original library, and the\\nordinary General Public License treats it as such. \\n\\nBecause of this blurred distinction, using the ordinary General Public License for libraries did not\\neffectively promote software sharing, because most developers did not use the libraries. We\\nconcluded that weaker conditions might promote sharing better. \\n\\nHowever, unrestricted linking of non-free programs would deprive the users of those programs of\\nall benefit from the free status of the libraries themselves. This Library General Public License is\\nintended to permit developers of non-free programs to use free libraries, while preserving your\\nfreedom as a user of such programs to change the free libraries that are incorporated in them. (We\\nhave not seen how to achieve this as regards changes in header files, but we have achieved it as\\nregards changes in the actual functions of the Library.) The hope is that this will lead to faster\\ndevelopment of free libraries. \\n\\n\\n\\n\\nFor \\\"non-free programs\\\" one should really read \\\"programs not distributed \\nunder the GPL\\\".\\n\\nHere is the critical part from Section 2 of the LGPL:\\n\\n\\n\\n\\n!!! From Section 2:\\nThese requirements apply to the modified work as a whole. If identifiable sections of that work are\\nnot derived from the Library, and can be reasonably considered independent and separate works in\\nthemselves, then this License, and its terms, do not apply to those sections when you distribute\\nthem as separate works. But when you distribute the same sections as part of a whole which is a\\nwork based on the Library, the distribution of the whole must be on the terms of this License,\\nwhose permissions for other licensees extend to the entire whole, and thus to each and every part\\nregardless of who wrote it. \\n\\nThus, it is not the intent of this section to claim rights or contest your rights to work written\\nentirely by you; rather, the intent is to exercise the right to control the distribution of derivative or\\ncollective works based on the Library. \\n\\nIn addition, mere aggregation of another work not based on the Library with the Library (or with a\\nwork based on the Library) on a volume of a storage or distribution medium does not bring the\\nother work under the scope of this License. \\n\\n\\n\\n\\n\\nIt really relies upon the distinction between what is \\\"the library\\\" and what is a\\n\\\"separate work\\\" (i.e. PostgreSQL) which happens to make use of the library.\\n\\nBut what really applies to us is Section 5:\\n\\n\\n\\n\\n!!! From Section 5:\\n5. A program that contains no derivative of any portion of the Library, but is designed to work\\nwith the Library by being compiled or linked with it, is called a \\\"work that uses the Library\\\". Such\\na work, in isolation, is not a derivative work of the Library, and therefore falls outside the scope of\\nthis License. \\n\\n\\n\\n\\n\\ni.e. the PostgreSQL source remains under our copyright.\\nBut then:\\n\\n\\n\\n\\n!!! From Section 5:\\nHowever, linking a \\\"work that uses the Library\\\" with the Library creates an executable that is a\\nderivative of the Library (because it contains portions of the Library), rather than a \\\"work that uses\\nthe library\\\". The executable is therefore covered by this License. Section 6 states terms for\\ndistribution of such executables. \\n\\n\\n\\n\\n\\nWe don't normally distribute executables, so that's not a problem.\\nIn any case, this is simply a legal definition since, as Section 6\\nstates:\\n\\n\\n\\n\\n!!! From Section 6:\\n6. As an exception to the Sections above, you may also compile or link a \\\"work that uses the\\nLibrary\\\" with the Library to produce a work containing portions of the Library, and distribute that\\nwork under terms of your choice, provided that the terms permit modification of the work for the\\ncustomer's own use and reverse engineering for debugging such modifications. \\n\\n\\n\\n\\nWe allow all that, so it's not a problem (though this would appear to \\nrestrict commercial products which are certainly available!). I guess,\\nhowever, that these are linked to use shared libraries.\\n\\nHowever, this section then appears to contradict itself as it then says:\\n\\n\\n\\n\\n!!! From Section 6:\\n...Also, you must do one of these things:\\n a) Accompany the work with the complete corresponding machine-readable source code for\\n the Library including whatever changes were used in the work (which must be distributed\\n under Sections 1 and 2 above); and, if the work is an executable linked with the Library, with\\n the complete machine-readable \\\"work that uses the Library\\\", as object code and/or source\\n code, so that the user can modify the Library and then relink to produce a modified\\n executable containing the modified Library. (It is understood that the user who changes the\\n contents of definitions files in the Library will not necessarily be able to recompile the\\n application to use the modified definitions.) \\n\\n\\n\\n\\n\\nHere, you only need to supply the object code such that you can \\nmodify *the library* not the \\\"work that uses the Library\\\" whereas\\nthe first part of Section 6 implies that you must be able to\\nmodify the \\\"work that uses the Library\\\". Commercial offerings\\nclearly rely on this being the clause they follow. By linking\\nwith an LGPL'd library dynamically, they also don't need to\\nsupply object code as you are fulfilling the requirement that\\nyou can link with a modified version of the library.\\n\\n\\n\\nIn summary (remembering that I am not a lawyer), it appears that\\nthe LGPL certainly does not \\\"pollute\\\" our code, but to use an LGPL\\nlibrary we need to satisfy certain conditions concerning distribution.\\nSince the licence which we give is even more free than LGPL and\\nwe do satisfy all these requirements, it really is not a problem.\\n\\nThe only restriction I can see if for third parties who wish to\\nuse PostgreSQL for some commercial product which they then wish\\nto sell. They must satisfy the requirements of the LGPL when they\\nsell that product if they link PostgreSQL with the LGPL'd library.\\nThus having a compile time option to include (or not) the LGPL'd\\nODBC stuff would seem like a sensible option. \\n\\n\\nIf the ODBC stuff is simply a stand-alone library (which uses the \\nPostgreSQL libraries) rather than being linked into PostgreSQL \\nitself, then there really is no problem whatsoever, as this would\\nthen be a simple aggregation of work. From Section 2:\\n\\nIn addition, mere aggregation of another work not based on the Library with the Library (or with a\\nwork based on the Library) on a volume of a storage or distribution medium does not bring the\\nother work under the scope of this License. \\n\\n\\n\\nAndrew\\n\\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\\nDr. Andrew C.R. Martin University College London\\nEMAIL: (Work) martin@biochem.ucl.ac.uk (Home) andrew@stagleys.demon.co.uk\\nURL: http://www.biochem.ucl.ac.uk/~martin\\nTel: (Work) +44(0)171 419 3890 (Home) +44(0)1372 275775\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:27:44 GMT\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Andrew Martin <martin@biochemistry.ucl.ac.uk>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"RE: [HACKERS] ODBC & LGPL license...\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":150,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"\n> OK, we never installed this for 6.2 because we were already in Beta. \n> Can we do this for 6.3? Vadim suggested we make this part of libpq, so\n> all applications could make use of it.\n> \n> \n\nAny more comments about adding support for .psqlrc? The original\nproposal was that psql should read commands from /etc/psqlrc\nand then from $(HOME)/.psqlrc\n\nNobody seems to have raised any objections. I vote for including this\nfor 6.3\n\n\nAndrew\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nDr. Andrew C.R. Martin University College London\nEMAIL: (Work) martin@biochem.ucl.ac.uk (Home) andrew@stagleys.demon.co.uk\nURL: http://www.biochem.ucl.ac.uk/~martin\nTel: (Work) +44(0)171 419 3890 (Home) +44(0)1372 275775\n","msg_date":"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:30:34 GMT","msg_from":"Andrew Martin <martin@biochemistry.ucl.ac.uk>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] PSQL man page patch"},{"msg_contents":"Andrew Martin wrote:\n\n> > OK, we never installed this for 6.2 because we were already in Beta.\n> > Can we do this for 6.3? Vadim suggested we make this part of libpq, so\n> > all applications could make use of it.\n> >\n> >\n>\n> Any more comments about adding support for .psqlrc? The original\n> proposal was that psql should read commands from /etc/psqlrc\n> and then from $(HOME)/.psqlrc\n>\n> Nobody seems to have raised any objections. I vote for including this\n> for 6.3\n\nI'm in favor of it also, perhaps as a libpq function call which is used in\npsql. That way, other apps or frontends can choose to use it or not.\n\nWould much prefer leaving it out as a _mandatory_ part of connection\ninitialization, since there will be side-effects for embedded apps. Combined\nwith PGDATESTYLE and PGTZ there will be pretty good control over the frontend\nenvironment.\n\n - Tom\n\n","msg_date":"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:52:30 +0000","msg_from":"\"Thomas G. Lockhart\" <lockhart@alumni.caltech.edu>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] PSQL man page patch"},{"msg_contents":"> \n> \n> > OK, we never installed this for 6.2 because we were already in Beta. \n> > Can we do this for 6.3? Vadim suggested we make this part of libpq, so\n> > all applications could make use of it.\n> > \n> > \n> \n> Any more comments about adding support for .psqlrc? The original\n> proposal was that psql should read commands from /etc/psqlrc\n> and then from $(HOME)/.psqlrc\n> \n> Nobody seems to have raised any objections. I vote for including this\n> for 6.3\n> \n\nSure. Let's do it from psql only, I think.\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 12:06:37 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] PSQL man page patch"},{"msg_contents":"On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Andrew Martin wrote:\n\n> \n> > OK, we never installed this for 6.2 because we were already in Beta. \n> > Can we do this for 6.3? Vadim suggested we make this part of libpq, so\n> > all applications could make use of it.\n> > \n> > \n> \n> Any more comments about adding support for .psqlrc? The original\n> proposal was that psql should read commands from /etc/psqlrc\n> and then from $(HOME)/.psqlrc\n> \n> Nobody seems to have raised any objections. I vote for including this\n> for 6.3\n\n\tI think its a good thing and should be added...I also agree with\nBruce(?) who disagreed with Vadim...it shouldn't be inherent in libpq\nitself, only in the \"applications\" themselves\n\n\n","msg_date":"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 12:12:14 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] PSQL man page patch"},{"msg_contents":"On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Thomas G. Lockhart wrote:\n\n> I'm in favor of it also, perhaps as a libpq function call which is used in\n> psql. That way, other apps or frontends can choose to use it or not.\n> \n> Would much prefer leaving it out as a _mandatory_ part of connection\n> initialization, since there will be side-effects for embedded apps. Combined\n> with PGDATESTYLE and PGTZ there will be pretty good control over the frontend\n> environment.\n \nI agree entirely with you Tom, as this could cause problems if it was a \n_mandatory_ part of connecting. \n \nInfact, it would (with the JDBC driver) prevent it from being used with \nApplets (accessing local files violate applet security).\n \nIt's best to make this an optional call for libpq.\n\nFor jdbc use, the following is the best way to do this (rather than \nincluding it in the driver):\n\npublic void readRCfile(Statement stat,File file) throws SQLException\n{\n try {\n FileInputStream fis = new FileInputStream(file);\n BufferedReader r = new BufferedReader(new Reader(fis));\n\n while((String line=r.readLine())!=null) {\n if(!line.startsWith(\"#\"))\n\tstat.executeUpdate(line);\n }\n r.close();\n } catch(IOException ioe)\n throw new SQLException(ioe.toString());\n}\n\npublic void initConnection(Connection con) throws SQLException\n{\n Statement stat = con.createStatement();\n \n // Process ~/.psqlrc\n try {\n String dir=System.getProperty(\"user.home\");\n if(dir!=null)\n readRCfile(stat,new File(dir,\".psqlrc\"));\n } catch(SQLException se) {\n // Ignore if it doesn't exist.\n }\n\n // Now /etc/psqlrc\n readRCfile(stat,new File(\"/etc/psqlrc\"));\n\n stat.close();\n}\n\nI'll add this to the examples later.\n\n-- \nPeter T Mount petermount@earthling.net or pmount@maidast.demon.co.uk\nMain Homepage: http://www.demon.co.uk/finder\nWork Homepage: http://www.maidstone.gov.uk Work EMail: peter@maidstone.gov.uk\n\n","msg_date":"Sat, 17 Jan 1998 14:26:31 +0000 (GMT)","msg_from":"Peter T Mount <psqlhack@maidast.demon.co.uk>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] PSQL man page patch"},{"msg_contents":"Peter T Mount wrote:\n> \n> On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Thomas G. Lockhart wrote:\n> \n> > I'm in favor of it also, perhaps as a libpq function call which is used in\n> > psql. That way, other apps or frontends can choose to use it or not.\n> >\n> > Would much prefer leaving it out as a _mandatory_ part of connection\n> > initialization, since there will be side-effects for embedded apps. Combined\n> > with PGDATESTYLE and PGTZ there will be pretty good control over the frontend\n> > environment.\n> \n> I agree entirely with you Tom, as this could cause problems if it was a\n> _mandatory_ part of connecting.\n\nAgreed!\n\nBTW, do you like X11 ?\n\nXLock.background:\t\t\tBlack\nNetscape*background:\t\t#B2B2B2\n\nHow about following this way ?\n\npsql.pgdatestyle:\t\teuro\t# this is for psql\n_some_app_.pgdatestyle:\tiso\t# this is for some application\npgaccess.background:\tblack\t# setting pgaccess' specific feature\n*.pggeqo:\t\ton=3\t# this is for all applics\n\nWe could use 'pg' prefix for standard features (datestyle, tz, etc)\nto give applic developers ability to set applic' specific features\nin the pgsqlrc file(s).\n\nVadim\n","msg_date":"Sun, 18 Jan 1998 16:25:28 +0700","msg_from":"\"Vadim B. Mikheev\" <vadim@sable.krasnoyarsk.su>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] PSQL man page patch"},{"msg_contents":"On Sun, 18 Jan 1998, Vadim B. Mikheev wrote:\n\n> Peter T Mount wrote:\n> > \n> > On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Thomas G. Lockhart wrote:\n> > \n> > > I'm in favor of it also, perhaps as a libpq function call which is used in\n> > > psql. That way, other apps or frontends can choose to use it or not.\n> > >\n> > > Would much prefer leaving it out as a _mandatory_ part of connection\n> > > initialization, since there will be side-effects for embedded apps. Combined\n> > > with PGDATESTYLE and PGTZ there will be pretty good control over the frontend\n> > > environment.\n> > \n> > I agree entirely with you Tom, as this could cause problems if it was a\n> > _mandatory_ part of connecting.\n> \n> Agreed!\n> \n> BTW, do you like X11 ?\n\nYes, as its much better than a certain other windowing front end I could\nmention ;-)\n\n> XLock.background:\t\t\tBlack\n> Netscape*background:\t\t#B2B2B2\n> \n> How about following this way ?\n> \n> psql.pgdatestyle:\t\teuro\t# this is for psql\n> _some_app_.pgdatestyle:\tiso\t# this is for some application\n> pgaccess.background:\tblack\t# setting pgaccess' specific feature\n> *.pggeqo:\t\ton=3\t# this is for all applics\n\nI assume you mean using X style configuration in /etc/psqlrc ? If so, then\nyes, it's a good way to go, as it allows a lot of flexibility.\n\nOne problem with the earlier .psqlrc idea was that any commands would run\nfor any database (as I saw it). This could cause big problems, if the user\naccessed a database that didn't support those commands. With the above\nmethod, you can get round this, by something like:\n\npsql.database.mydb:\t.mydbrc\t\t# sql file run when mydb is opened\npsql.database.*:\t.generalrc\t# sql file run when any db is\n\t\t\t\t\t# opened\n\nNow, JDBC driver can't use the same config file as that violates security.\nTo get round this, we use Java's system properties. For applets, the\ndriver simply gets nothing when it asks for the parameter. Applications\ncan load their own parameters from a file, or have them set on the command\nline.\n\nThe file looks like:\n\n# Default authorisation scheme\npostgresql.auth=password\n\nThe command line form looks like:\n\njava -Dpostgresql.auth=password myapp\n\n> We could use 'pg' prefix for standard features (datestyle, tz, etc)\n> to give applic developers ability to set applic' specific features\n> in the pgsqlrc file(s).\n\nSounds good to me\n\n-- \nPeter T Mount petermount@earthling.net or pmount@maidast.demon.co.uk\nMain Homepage: http://www.demon.co.uk/finder\nWork Homepage: http://www.maidstone.gov.uk Work EMail: peter@maidstone.gov.uk\n\n","msg_date":"Sun, 18 Jan 1998 11:21:48 +0000 (GMT)","msg_from":"Peter T Mount <psqlhack@maidast.demon.co.uk>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] PSQL man page patch"},{"msg_contents":"> Agreed!\n> \n> BTW, do you like X11 ?\n> \n> XLock.background:\t\t\tBlack\n> Netscape*background:\t\t#B2B2B2\n> \n> How about following this way ?\n> \n> psql.pgdatestyle:\t\teuro\t# this is for psql\n> _some_app_.pgdatestyle:\tiso\t# this is for some application\n> pgaccess.background:\tblack\t# setting pgaccess' specific feature\n> *.pggeqo:\t\ton=3\t# this is for all applics\n> \n> We could use 'pg' prefix for standard features (datestyle, tz, etc)\n> to give applic developers ability to set applic' specific features\n> in the pgsqlrc file(s).\n> \n\nCool idea.\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Sun, 18 Jan 1998 14:33:54 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] PSQL man page patch"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\n> OK, we never installed this for 6.2 because we were already in Beta. \\n> Can we do this for 6.3? Vadim suggested we make this part of libpq, so\\n> all applications could make use of it.\\n> \\n> \\n\\nAny more comments about adding support for .psqlrc? The original\\nproposal was that psql should read commands from /etc/psqlrc\\nand then from $(HOME)/.psqlrc\\n\\nNobody seems to have raised any objections. I vote for including this\\nfor 6.3\\n\\n\\nAndrew\\n\\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\\nDr. Andrew C.R. Martin University College London\\nEMAIL: (Work) martin@biochem.ucl.ac.uk (Home) andrew@stagleys.demon.co.uk\\nURL: http://www.biochem.ucl.ac.uk/~martin\\nTel: (Work) +44(0)171 419 3890 (Home) +44(0)1372 275775\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:30:34 GMT\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Andrew Martin <martin@biochemistry.ucl.ac.uk>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] PSQL man page patch\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Andrew Martin wrote:\\n\\n> > OK, we never installed this for 6.2 because we were already in Beta.\\n> > Can we do this for 6.3? Vadim suggested we make this part of libpq, so\\n> > all applications could make use of it.\\n> >\\n> >\\n>\\n> Any more comments about adding support for .psqlrc? The original\\n> proposal was that psql should read commands from /etc/psqlrc\\n> and then from $(HOME)/.psqlrc\\n>\\n> Nobody seems to have raised any objections. I vote for including this\\n> for 6.3\\n\\nI'm in favor of it also, perhaps as a libpq function call which is used in\\npsql. That way, other apps or frontends can choose to use it or not.\\n\\nWould much prefer leaving it out as a _mandatory_ part of connection\\ninitialization, since there will be side-effects for embedded apps. Combined\\nwith PGDATESTYLE and PGTZ there will be pretty good control over the frontend\\nenvironment.\\n\\n - Tom\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:52:30 +0000\",\n \"msg_from\": \"\\\"Thomas G. Lockhart\\\" <lockhart@alumni.caltech.edu>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] PSQL man page patch\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> \\n> \\n> > OK, we never installed this for 6.2 because we were already in Beta. \\n> > Can we do this for 6.3? Vadim suggested we make this part of libpq, so\\n> > all applications could make use of it.\\n> > \\n> > \\n> \\n> Any more comments about adding support for .psqlrc? The original\\n> proposal was that psql should read commands from /etc/psqlrc\\n> and then from $(HOME)/.psqlrc\\n> \\n> Nobody seems to have raised any objections. I vote for including this\\n> for 6.3\\n> \\n\\nSure. Let's do it from psql only, I think.\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 12:06:37 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] PSQL man page patch\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Andrew Martin wrote:\\n\\n> \\n> > OK, we never installed this for 6.2 because we were already in Beta. \\n> > Can we do this for 6.3? Vadim suggested we make this part of libpq, so\\n> > all applications could make use of it.\\n> > \\n> > \\n> \\n> Any more comments about adding support for .psqlrc? The original\\n> proposal was that psql should read commands from /etc/psqlrc\\n> and then from $(HOME)/.psqlrc\\n> \\n> Nobody seems to have raised any objections. I vote for including this\\n> for 6.3\\n\\n\\tI think its a good thing and should be added...I also agree with\\nBruce(?) who disagreed with Vadim...it shouldn't be inherent in libpq\\nitself, only in the \\\"applications\\\" themselves\\n\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 12:12:14 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] PSQL man page patch\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Thomas G. Lockhart wrote:\\n\\n> I'm in favor of it also, perhaps as a libpq function call which is used in\\n> psql. That way, other apps or frontends can choose to use it or not.\\n> \\n> Would much prefer leaving it out as a _mandatory_ part of connection\\n> initialization, since there will be side-effects for embedded apps. Combined\\n> with PGDATESTYLE and PGTZ there will be pretty good control over the frontend\\n> environment.\\n \\nI agree entirely with you Tom, as this could cause problems if it was a \\n_mandatory_ part of connecting. \\n \\nInfact, it would (with the JDBC driver) prevent it from being used with \\nApplets (accessing local files violate applet security).\\n \\nIt's best to make this an optional call for libpq.\\n\\nFor jdbc use, the following is the best way to do this (rather than \\nincluding it in the driver):\\n\\npublic void readRCfile(Statement stat,File file) throws SQLException\\n{\\n try {\\n FileInputStream fis = new FileInputStream(file);\\n BufferedReader r = new BufferedReader(new Reader(fis));\\n\\n while((String line=r.readLine())!=null) {\\n if(!line.startsWith(\\\"#\\\"))\\n\\tstat.executeUpdate(line);\\n }\\n r.close();\\n } catch(IOException ioe)\\n throw new SQLException(ioe.toString());\\n}\\n\\npublic void initConnection(Connection con) throws SQLException\\n{\\n Statement stat = con.createStatement();\\n \\n // Process ~/.psqlrc\\n try {\\n String dir=System.getProperty(\\\"user.home\\\");\\n if(dir!=null)\\n readRCfile(stat,new File(dir,\\\".psqlrc\\\"));\\n } catch(SQLException se) {\\n // Ignore if it doesn't exist.\\n }\\n\\n // Now /etc/psqlrc\\n readRCfile(stat,new File(\\\"/etc/psqlrc\\\"));\\n\\n stat.close();\\n}\\n\\nI'll add this to the examples later.\\n\\n-- \\nPeter T Mount petermount@earthling.net or pmount@maidast.demon.co.uk\\nMain Homepage: http://www.demon.co.uk/finder\\nWork Homepage: http://www.maidstone.gov.uk Work EMail: peter@maidstone.gov.uk\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sat, 17 Jan 1998 14:26:31 +0000 (GMT)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Peter T Mount <psqlhack@maidast.demon.co.uk>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] PSQL man page patch\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Peter T Mount wrote:\\n> \\n> On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Thomas G. Lockhart wrote:\\n> \\n> > I'm in favor of it also, perhaps as a libpq function call which is used in\\n> > psql. That way, other apps or frontends can choose to use it or not.\\n> >\\n> > Would much prefer leaving it out as a _mandatory_ part of connection\\n> > initialization, since there will be side-effects for embedded apps. Combined\\n> > with PGDATESTYLE and PGTZ there will be pretty good control over the frontend\\n> > environment.\\n> \\n> I agree entirely with you Tom, as this could cause problems if it was a\\n> _mandatory_ part of connecting.\\n\\nAgreed!\\n\\nBTW, do you like X11 ?\\n\\nXLock.background:\\t\\t\\tBlack\\nNetscape*background:\\t\\t#B2B2B2\\n\\nHow about following this way ?\\n\\npsql.pgdatestyle:\\t\\teuro\\t# this is for psql\\n_some_app_.pgdatestyle:\\tiso\\t# this is for some application\\npgaccess.background:\\tblack\\t# setting pgaccess' specific feature\\n*.pggeqo:\\t\\ton=3\\t# this is for all applics\\n\\nWe could use 'pg' prefix for standard features (datestyle, tz, etc)\\nto give applic developers ability to set applic' specific features\\nin the pgsqlrc file(s).\\n\\nVadim\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sun, 18 Jan 1998 16:25:28 +0700\",\n \"msg_from\": \"\\\"Vadim B. Mikheev\\\" <vadim@sable.krasnoyarsk.su>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] PSQL man page patch\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"On Sun, 18 Jan 1998, Vadim B. Mikheev wrote:\\n\\n> Peter T Mount wrote:\\n> > \\n> > On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Thomas G. Lockhart wrote:\\n> > \\n> > > I'm in favor of it also, perhaps as a libpq function call which is used in\\n> > > psql. That way, other apps or frontends can choose to use it or not.\\n> > >\\n> > > Would much prefer leaving it out as a _mandatory_ part of connection\\n> > > initialization, since there will be side-effects for embedded apps. Combined\\n> > > with PGDATESTYLE and PGTZ there will be pretty good control over the frontend\\n> > > environment.\\n> > \\n> > I agree entirely with you Tom, as this could cause problems if it was a\\n> > _mandatory_ part of connecting.\\n> \\n> Agreed!\\n> \\n> BTW, do you like X11 ?\\n\\nYes, as its much better than a certain other windowing front end I could\\nmention ;-)\\n\\n> XLock.background:\\t\\t\\tBlack\\n> Netscape*background:\\t\\t#B2B2B2\\n> \\n> How about following this way ?\\n> \\n> psql.pgdatestyle:\\t\\teuro\\t# this is for psql\\n> _some_app_.pgdatestyle:\\tiso\\t# this is for some application\\n> pgaccess.background:\\tblack\\t# setting pgaccess' specific feature\\n> *.pggeqo:\\t\\ton=3\\t# this is for all applics\\n\\nI assume you mean using X style configuration in /etc/psqlrc ? If so, then\\nyes, it's a good way to go, as it allows a lot of flexibility.\\n\\nOne problem with the earlier .psqlrc idea was that any commands would run\\nfor any database (as I saw it). This could cause big problems, if the user\\naccessed a database that didn't support those commands. With the above\\nmethod, you can get round this, by something like:\\n\\npsql.database.mydb:\\t.mydbrc\\t\\t# sql file run when mydb is opened\\npsql.database.*:\\t.generalrc\\t# sql file run when any db is\\n\\t\\t\\t\\t\\t# opened\\n\\nNow, JDBC driver can't use the same config file as that violates security.\\nTo get round this, we use Java's system properties. For applets, the\\ndriver simply gets nothing when it asks for the parameter. Applications\\ncan load their own parameters from a file, or have them set on the command\\nline.\\n\\nThe file looks like:\\n\\n# Default authorisation scheme\\npostgresql.auth=password\\n\\nThe command line form looks like:\\n\\njava -Dpostgresql.auth=password myapp\\n\\n> We could use 'pg' prefix for standard features (datestyle, tz, etc)\\n> to give applic developers ability to set applic' specific features\\n> in the pgsqlrc file(s).\\n\\nSounds good to me\\n\\n-- \\nPeter T Mount petermount@earthling.net or pmount@maidast.demon.co.uk\\nMain Homepage: http://www.demon.co.uk/finder\\nWork Homepage: http://www.maidstone.gov.uk Work EMail: peter@maidstone.gov.uk\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sun, 18 Jan 1998 11:21:48 +0000 (GMT)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Peter T Mount <psqlhack@maidast.demon.co.uk>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] PSQL man page patch\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> Agreed!\\n> \\n> BTW, do you like X11 ?\\n> \\n> XLock.background:\\t\\t\\tBlack\\n> Netscape*background:\\t\\t#B2B2B2\\n> \\n> How about following this way ?\\n> \\n> psql.pgdatestyle:\\t\\teuro\\t# this is for psql\\n> _some_app_.pgdatestyle:\\tiso\\t# this is for some application\\n> pgaccess.background:\\tblack\\t# setting pgaccess' specific feature\\n> *.pggeqo:\\t\\ton=3\\t# this is for all applics\\n> \\n> We could use 'pg' prefix for standard features (datestyle, tz, etc)\\n> to give applic developers ability to set applic' specific features\\n> in the pgsqlrc file(s).\\n> \\n\\nCool idea.\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sun, 18 Jan 1998 14:33:54 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] PSQL man page patch\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":151,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"\n\n\n\nPG Version: CVSup src from 15:00 EST Jan 16, 1998\n OS: Linux 2.0.30 (Slackware 3.3)\n\nI am trying to test a patch I created for the pg_dump utility. I cvsuped\nthe latest sources\nand created the patch. I used the following procedure:\n 1 configure --prefix=/usr/local/pgsql-test --with-pgport=7777\n 2 make\n 3 make install\n 4 /usr/local/pgsql-test/bin/initdb --pgdata=/usr/local/pgsql/data\n--pglib=/usr/local/pgsql-test/lib\n 5 started the postmaster for the regression tests\n 6 tried to make runtest to do the regression tests and it could not\nfind the postmaster at port 7777\nI looked at netstat and found the postmaster was using a UNIX domain\nsocket, but it seems that the regression\ntests are not. How do I change the postmaster to use the TCP socket instead\nof the UNIX domain socket.\nI looked in the documentation with the src and did not see anything. It\nappears that the docs have not\nbeen update to be release with the beta.\n\nThanks,\n\nMatt\n\n\n","msg_date":"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:07:49 -0400","msg_from":"maycock@intelliquest.com","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Latest src tree"},{"msg_contents":"postmaster -i\n\n> \n> \n> \n> \n> \n> PG Version: CVSup src from 15:00 EST Jan 16, 1998\n> OS: Linux 2.0.30 (Slackware 3.3)\n> \n> I am trying to test a patch I created for the pg_dump utility. I cvsuped\n> the latest sources\n> and created the patch. I used the following procedure:\n> 1 configure --prefix=/usr/local/pgsql-test --with-pgport=7777\n> 2 make\n> 3 make install\n> 4 /usr/local/pgsql-test/bin/initdb --pgdata=/usr/local/pgsql/data\n> --pglib=/usr/local/pgsql-test/lib\n> 5 started the postmaster for the regression tests\n> 6 tried to make runtest to do the regression tests and it could not\n> find the postmaster at port 7777\n> I looked at netstat and found the postmaster was using a UNIX domain\n> socket, but it seems that the regression\n> tests are not. How do I change the postmaster to use the TCP socket instead\n> of the UNIX domain socket.\n> I looked in the documentation with the src and did not see anything. It\n> appears that the docs have not\n> been update to be release with the beta.\n> \n> Thanks,\n> \n> Matt\n> \n> \n> \n> \n\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:35:49 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Latest src tree"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\n\\n\\n\\nPG Version: CVSup src from 15:00 EST Jan 16, 1998\\n OS: Linux 2.0.30 (Slackware 3.3)\\n\\nI am trying to test a patch I created for the pg_dump utility. I cvsuped\\nthe latest sources\\nand created the patch. I used the following procedure:\\n 1 configure --prefix=/usr/local/pgsql-test --with-pgport=7777\\n 2 make\\n 3 make install\\n 4 /usr/local/pgsql-test/bin/initdb --pgdata=/usr/local/pgsql/data\\n--pglib=/usr/local/pgsql-test/lib\\n 5 started the postmaster for the regression tests\\n 6 tried to make runtest to do the regression tests and it could not\\nfind the postmaster at port 7777\\nI looked at netstat and found the postmaster was using a UNIX domain\\nsocket, but it seems that the regression\\ntests are not. How do I change the postmaster to use the TCP socket instead\\nof the UNIX domain socket.\\nI looked in the documentation with the src and did not see anything. It\\nappears that the docs have not\\nbeen update to be release with the beta.\\n\\nThanks,\\n\\nMatt\\n\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:07:49 -0400\",\n \"msg_from\": \"maycock@intelliquest.com\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Latest src tree\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"postmaster -i\\n\\n> \\n> \\n> \\n> \\n> \\n> PG Version: CVSup src from 15:00 EST Jan 16, 1998\\n> OS: Linux 2.0.30 (Slackware 3.3)\\n> \\n> I am trying to test a patch I created for the pg_dump utility. I cvsuped\\n> the latest sources\\n> and created the patch. I used the following procedure:\\n> 1 configure --prefix=/usr/local/pgsql-test --with-pgport=7777\\n> 2 make\\n> 3 make install\\n> 4 /usr/local/pgsql-test/bin/initdb --pgdata=/usr/local/pgsql/data\\n> --pglib=/usr/local/pgsql-test/lib\\n> 5 started the postmaster for the regression tests\\n> 6 tried to make runtest to do the regression tests and it could not\\n> find the postmaster at port 7777\\n> I looked at netstat and found the postmaster was using a UNIX domain\\n> socket, but it seems that the regression\\n> tests are not. How do I change the postmaster to use the TCP socket instead\\n> of the UNIX domain socket.\\n> I looked in the documentation with the src and did not see anything. It\\n> appears that the docs have not\\n> been update to be release with the beta.\\n> \\n> Thanks,\\n> \\n> Matt\\n> \\n> \\n> \\n> \\n\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:35:49 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Latest src tree\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":152,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"Hi,\n\nquestion that i couldnt get answered in Questions, so at the risk of \nbeing shot sending it here.\n\nIs it possible to compile only lib(pq) and not the rest of the DBMS.\nI'm facing the problem where i have to install client software on\nmultiple platforms, and wanting to make C stubs for the applications.\nBuilding the entire DBMS on every platform is no option (space limits).\nI have already tried a config, then compile in the interfaces/lib\ndir, but that does not seem to work. Unfortunately i am not yet fully\nup to date with knowledge of the sources, so making a 'make lib' isnt\nwithin my powers......\n\nAny suggestions?\n\nRamon\n","msg_date":"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:05:29 -0500","msg_from":"Ramon Krikken <rkr@netmaine.com>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Compiling libs only"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Hi,\\n\\nquestion that i couldnt get answered in Questions, so at the risk of \\nbeing shot sending it here.\\n\\nIs it possible to compile only lib(pq) and not the rest of the DBMS.\\nI'm facing the problem where i have to install client software on\\nmultiple platforms, and wanting to make C stubs for the applications.\\nBuilding the entire DBMS on every platform is no option (space limits).\\nI have already tried a config, then compile in the interfaces/lib\\ndir, but that does not seem to work. Unfortunately i am not yet fully\\nup to date with knowledge of the sources, so making a 'make lib' isnt\\nwithin my powers......\\n\\nAny suggestions?\\n\\nRamon\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:05:29 -0500\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Ramon Krikken <rkr@netmaine.com>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Compiling libs only\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":153,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"Hi, I'm running Postgres 6.2.1 on IRIX 5.3 using native compiler.\n\nRunning test/examples/testlibpq3 generates the following erroneous\nresults. Can anyone shed some light on the matter? Thanks,\n\ntype[0] = 23, size[0] = 4\ntype[1] = 700, size[1] = 4\ntype[2] = 604, size[2] = -1\n\ntuple 0: got\n i = (1 bytes) 822083585,\n d = (5 bytes) 0.000000,\n p = (5 bytes) 673723180 points boundbox = (hi=0.000000/0.000000, lo = 0.000000,0.000000)\ntuple 1: got\n i = (1 bytes) 838876160,\n d = (5 bytes) 0.000044,\n p = (5 bytes) 673723436 points boundbox = (hi=0.000000/0.000000, lo = 0.000000,0.000000)\n\n\n-- \n-------------------------------------------------------------------------\nBrian Sanders\t bsanders@netcom.com\t\n=========================================================================\n","msg_date":"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:39:49 -0800 (PST)","msg_from":"Brian Sanders <bsanders@netcom.com>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"testlibpq3 gives incorrect results"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Hi, I'm running Postgres 6.2.1 on IRIX 5.3 using native compiler.\\n\\nRunning test/examples/testlibpq3 generates the following erroneous\\nresults. Can anyone shed some light on the matter? Thanks,\\n\\ntype[0] = 23, size[0] = 4\\ntype[1] = 700, size[1] = 4\\ntype[2] = 604, size[2] = -1\\n\\ntuple 0: got\\n i = (1 bytes) 822083585,\\n d = (5 bytes) 0.000000,\\n p = (5 bytes) 673723180 points boundbox = (hi=0.000000/0.000000, lo = 0.000000,0.000000)\\ntuple 1: got\\n i = (1 bytes) 838876160,\\n d = (5 bytes) 0.000044,\\n p = (5 bytes) 673723436 points boundbox = (hi=0.000000/0.000000, lo = 0.000000,0.000000)\\n\\n\\n-- \\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------\\nBrian Sanders\\t bsanders@netcom.com\\t\\n=========================================================================\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:39:49 -0800 (PST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Brian Sanders <bsanders@netcom.com>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"testlibpq3 gives incorrect results\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":154,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"OK, I have created the SubLink structure with supporting routines, and\nhave added code to create the SubLink structures in the parser, and have\nadded Query->hasSubLink.\n\nI changed gram.y to support:\n\n\t(x,y,z) OP (subselect)\n\nwhere OP is any operator. Is that right, or are we doing only certain\nones, and of so, do we limit it in the parser?\n\nI still need to add code to handle SubLink fields in the Where clause\nand other supporting code, but it should be enough for Vadim to start\ncoding if he wants to. I also need to add Var->sublevels_up.\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Sat, 17 Jan 1998 00:00:50 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"subselects coding started"},{"msg_contents":"Bruce Momjian wrote:\n\n> OK, I have created the SubLink structure with supporting routines, and\n> have added code to create the SubLink structures in the parser, and have\n> added Query->hasSubLink.\n>\n> I changed gram.y to support:\n>\n> (x,y,z) OP (subselect)\n>\n> where OP is any operator. Is that right, or are we doing only certain\n> ones, and of so, do we limit it in the parser?\n\nSeems like we would want to pass most operators and expressions through\ngram.y, and then call elog() in either the transformation or in the\noptimizer if it is an operator which can't be supported.\n\n - Tom\n\n","msg_date":"Sat, 17 Jan 1998 05:42:45 +0000","msg_from":"\"Thomas G. Lockhart\" <lockhart@alumni.caltech.edu>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] subselects coding started"},{"msg_contents":"> \n> Bruce Momjian wrote:\n> \n> > OK, I have created the SubLink structure with supporting routines, and\n> > have added code to create the SubLink structures in the parser, and have\n> > added Query->hasSubLink.\n> >\n> > I changed gram.y to support:\n> >\n> > (x,y,z) OP (subselect)\n> >\n> > where OP is any operator. Is that right, or are we doing only certain\n> > ones, and of so, do we limit it in the parser?\n> \n> Seems like we would want to pass most operators and expressions through\n> gram.y, and then call elog() in either the transformation or in the\n> optimizer if it is an operator which can't be supported.\n> \n\nThat's what I thought.\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Sat, 17 Jan 1998 11:00:25 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] subselects coding started"},{"msg_contents":"Thomas G. Lockhart wrote:\n> \n> Bruce Momjian wrote:\n> \n> > OK, I have created the SubLink structure with supporting routines, and\n> > have added code to create the SubLink structures in the parser, and have\n> > added Query->hasSubLink.\n> >\n> > I changed gram.y to support:\n> >\n> > (x,y,z) OP (subselect)\n> >\n> > where OP is any operator. Is that right, or are we doing only certain\n> > ones, and of so, do we limit it in the parser?\n> \n> Seems like we would want to pass most operators and expressions through\n> gram.y, and then call elog() in either the transformation or in the\n> optimizer if it is an operator which can't be supported.\n\nNot in optimizer, in parser, please.\nRemember that for <> SubLink->useor must be TRUE and this is parser work\n(optimizer don't know about \"=\", \"<>\", etc but only about Oper nodes).\n\nIN (\"=\" ANY) and NOT IN (\"<>\" ALL) transformations are also parser work.\n\nVadim\n","msg_date":"Sun, 18 Jan 1998 19:27:09 +0700","msg_from":"\"Vadim B. Mikheev\" <vadim@sable.krasnoyarsk.su>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] subselects coding started"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"OK, I have created the SubLink structure with supporting routines, and\\nhave added code to create the SubLink structures in the parser, and have\\nadded Query->hasSubLink.\\n\\nI changed gram.y to support:\\n\\n\\t(x,y,z) OP (subselect)\\n\\nwhere OP is any operator. Is that right, or are we doing only certain\\nones, and of so, do we limit it in the parser?\\n\\nI still need to add code to handle SubLink fields in the Where clause\\nand other supporting code, but it should be enough for Vadim to start\\ncoding if he wants to. I also need to add Var->sublevels_up.\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sat, 17 Jan 1998 00:00:50 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"subselects coding started\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Bruce Momjian wrote:\\n\\n> OK, I have created the SubLink structure with supporting routines, and\\n> have added code to create the SubLink structures in the parser, and have\\n> added Query->hasSubLink.\\n>\\n> I changed gram.y to support:\\n>\\n> (x,y,z) OP (subselect)\\n>\\n> where OP is any operator. Is that right, or are we doing only certain\\n> ones, and of so, do we limit it in the parser?\\n\\nSeems like we would want to pass most operators and expressions through\\ngram.y, and then call elog() in either the transformation or in the\\noptimizer if it is an operator which can't be supported.\\n\\n - Tom\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sat, 17 Jan 1998 05:42:45 +0000\",\n \"msg_from\": \"\\\"Thomas G. Lockhart\\\" <lockhart@alumni.caltech.edu>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] subselects coding started\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> \\n> Bruce Momjian wrote:\\n> \\n> > OK, I have created the SubLink structure with supporting routines, and\\n> > have added code to create the SubLink structures in the parser, and have\\n> > added Query->hasSubLink.\\n> >\\n> > I changed gram.y to support:\\n> >\\n> > (x,y,z) OP (subselect)\\n> >\\n> > where OP is any operator. Is that right, or are we doing only certain\\n> > ones, and of so, do we limit it in the parser?\\n> \\n> Seems like we would want to pass most operators and expressions through\\n> gram.y, and then call elog() in either the transformation or in the\\n> optimizer if it is an operator which can't be supported.\\n> \\n\\nThat's what I thought.\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sat, 17 Jan 1998 11:00:25 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] subselects coding started\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Thomas G. Lockhart wrote:\\n> \\n> Bruce Momjian wrote:\\n> \\n> > OK, I have created the SubLink structure with supporting routines, and\\n> > have added code to create the SubLink structures in the parser, and have\\n> > added Query->hasSubLink.\\n> >\\n> > I changed gram.y to support:\\n> >\\n> > (x,y,z) OP (subselect)\\n> >\\n> > where OP is any operator. Is that right, or are we doing only certain\\n> > ones, and of so, do we limit it in the parser?\\n> \\n> Seems like we would want to pass most operators and expressions through\\n> gram.y, and then call elog() in either the transformation or in the\\n> optimizer if it is an operator which can't be supported.\\n\\nNot in optimizer, in parser, please.\\nRemember that for <> SubLink->useor must be TRUE and this is parser work\\n(optimizer don't know about \\\"=\\\", \\\"<>\\\", etc but only about Oper nodes).\\n\\nIN (\\\"=\\\" ANY) and NOT IN (\\\"<>\\\" ALL) transformations are also parser work.\\n\\nVadim\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sun, 18 Jan 1998 19:27:09 +0700\",\n \"msg_from\": \"\\\"Vadim B. Mikheev\\\" <vadim@sable.krasnoyarsk.su>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] subselects coding started\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":155,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"\nWhile looking thru the nodeGroup code, I noticed the following\nthat I'm not sure is correct.\n\n-- Using 01-09 snapshot\ncreate table t1 (a int4, b char(2), c char(2));\nCREATE\ninsert into t1 (a,c) values (1,'x');\nINSERT 149419 1\ninsert into t1 (a,c) values (2,'x');\nINSERT 149420 1\ninsert into t1 (a,c) values (3,'z');\nINSERT 149421 1\ninsert into t1 (a,c) values (2,'x');\nINSERT 149422 1\nselect * from t1;\na|b|c\n-+-+--\n1| |x \n2| |x \n3| |z\n2| |x\n(4 rows)\n\nselect b,c,sum(a) from t1 group by b,c;\nb|c |sum\n-+--+---\n |x | 3\n |z | 3\n |x | 2\n(3 rows)\n\nselect b,c,sum(a) from t1 group by b,c order by c;\nb|c |sum\n-+--+---\n |x | 3\n |x | 2\n |z | 3\n(3 rows)\n\nIn the second query, the first two rows have been grouped, but shouldn't\nthey not be since b is NULL? I thought that NULL != NULL?\n\nIf so, is the third query wrong? The first two rows are different, but\nonly because of the aggregated column that is the source of the group by.\nAccording to the logic from the second query, these should have been\ngrouped, no?\n\nWhat does the standard say about comparing two NULL values?\n\nThe fixes for these inconsistencies appear to be simple. To cause a new\ngroup to be started if NULL != NULL, simply change the \"continue;\" in the\nsameGroup function in nodeGroup.c to \"return FALSE;\" Ignoring aggregated\ncolumns would also then be added to sameGroup().\n\ndarrenk\n","msg_date":"Sat, 17 Jan 1998 16:27:26 -0500","msg_from":"darrenk@insightdist.com (Darren King)","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Group By, NULL values and inconsistent behaviour."},{"msg_contents":"Where are we on this. It appears this NULL group by is seriously\nbroken.\n\nCan we have some tests on commercial databases, and get a patch\ngenerated?\n\n> \n> \n> While looking thru the nodeGroup code, I noticed the following\n> that I'm not sure is correct.\n> \n> -- Using 01-09 snapshot\n> create table t1 (a int4, b char(2), c char(2));\n> CREATE\n> insert into t1 (a,c) values (1,'x');\n> INSERT 149419 1\n> insert into t1 (a,c) values (2,'x');\n> INSERT 149420 1\n> insert into t1 (a,c) values (3,'z');\n> INSERT 149421 1\n> insert into t1 (a,c) values (2,'x');\n> INSERT 149422 1\n> select * from t1;\n> a|b|c\n> -+-+--\n> 1| |x \n> 2| |x \n> 3| |z\n> 2| |x\n> (4 rows)\n> \n> select b,c,sum(a) from t1 group by b,c;\n> b|c |sum\n> -+--+---\n> |x | 3\n> |z | 3\n> |x | 2\n> (3 rows)\n> \n> select b,c,sum(a) from t1 group by b,c order by c;\n> b|c |sum\n> -+--+---\n> |x | 3\n> |x | 2\n> |z | 3\n> (3 rows)\n> \n> In the second query, the first two rows have been grouped, but shouldn't\n> they not be since b is NULL? I thought that NULL != NULL?\n> \n> If so, is the third query wrong? The first two rows are different, but\n> only because of the aggregated column that is the source of the group by.\n> According to the logic from the second query, these should have been\n> grouped, no?\n> \n> What does the standard say about comparing two NULL values?\n> \n> The fixes for these inconsistencies appear to be simple. To cause a new\n> group to be started if NULL != NULL, simply change the \"continue;\" in the\n> sameGroup function in nodeGroup.c to \"return FALSE;\" Ignoring aggregated\n> columns would also then be added to sameGroup().\n> \n> darrenk\n> \n> \n\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Sun, 25 Jan 1998 14:53:21 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Group By, NULL values and inconsistent behaviour."},{"msg_contents":"Bruce Momjian wrote:\n> \n> Where are we on this. It appears this NULL group by is seriously\n> broken.\n> \n> Can we have some tests on commercial databases, and get a patch\n> generated?\n\nI ran the test on Sybase. The only real changes were int4->int and\nexplicitly calling out field b as null (it defaults to not null).\n\n1> select @@version\n2> go\n \n ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- \n SQL Server/11.0.2/P/Sun_svr4/OS 5.4/EBF 6536/OPT/Sat Aug 17 11:54:59 PDT 1996 \n \n(1 row affected)\n1> create table t1 (a int, b char(2) null, c char(2))\n2> go\n1> insert into t1 (a,c) values (1,'x')\n2> go\n(1 row affected)\n1> insert into t1 (a,c) values (2,'x')\n2> go\n(1 row affected)\n1> insert into t1 (a,c) values (3,'z')\n2> go\n(1 row affected)\n1> insert into t1 (a,c) values (2,'x')\n2> go\n(1 row affected)\n1> select * from t1\n2> go\n a b c \n ----------- -- -- \n 1 NULL x \n 2 NULL x \n 3 NULL z \n 2 NULL x \n \n(4 rows affected)\n1> select b,c,sum(a) from t1 group by b,c\n2> go\n b c \n -- -- ----------- \n NULL x 5 \n NULL z 3 \n \n(2 rows affected)\n1> select b,c,sum(a) from t1 group by b,c order by c\n2> go\n b c \n -- -- ----------- \n NULL x 5 \n NULL z 3 \n \n(2 rows affected)\n\nIt seems that Sybase thinks a null is a null in this case. However,\ntry the following:\n\nselect * from t1 x, t1 y where x.b=y.b and y.c='z';\n\nSybase returns zero rows for this. It seems that it treats NULLs as\nequal for order and group operations, but not for join operations.\n\nOcie Mitchell\n","msg_date":"Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:20:13 -0800 (PST)","msg_from":"ocie@paracel.com","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Group By, NULL values and inconsistent behaviour."}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\nWhile looking thru the nodeGroup code, I noticed the following\\nthat I'm not sure is correct.\\n\\n-- Using 01-09 snapshot\\ncreate table t1 (a int4, b char(2), c char(2));\\nCREATE\\ninsert into t1 (a,c) values (1,'x');\\nINSERT 149419 1\\ninsert into t1 (a,c) values (2,'x');\\nINSERT 149420 1\\ninsert into t1 (a,c) values (3,'z');\\nINSERT 149421 1\\ninsert into t1 (a,c) values (2,'x');\\nINSERT 149422 1\\nselect * from t1;\\na|b|c\\n-+-+--\\n1| |x \\n2| |x \\n3| |z\\n2| |x\\n(4 rows)\\n\\nselect b,c,sum(a) from t1 group by b,c;\\nb|c |sum\\n-+--+---\\n |x | 3\\n |z | 3\\n |x | 2\\n(3 rows)\\n\\nselect b,c,sum(a) from t1 group by b,c order by c;\\nb|c |sum\\n-+--+---\\n |x | 3\\n |x | 2\\n |z | 3\\n(3 rows)\\n\\nIn the second query, the first two rows have been grouped, but shouldn't\\nthey not be since b is NULL? I thought that NULL != NULL?\\n\\nIf so, is the third query wrong? The first two rows are different, but\\nonly because of the aggregated column that is the source of the group by.\\nAccording to the logic from the second query, these should have been\\ngrouped, no?\\n\\nWhat does the standard say about comparing two NULL values?\\n\\nThe fixes for these inconsistencies appear to be simple. To cause a new\\ngroup to be started if NULL != NULL, simply change the \\\"continue;\\\" in the\\nsameGroup function in nodeGroup.c to \\\"return FALSE;\\\" Ignoring aggregated\\ncolumns would also then be added to sameGroup().\\n\\ndarrenk\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sat, 17 Jan 1998 16:27:26 -0500\",\n \"msg_from\": \"darrenk@insightdist.com (Darren King)\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Group By, NULL values and inconsistent behaviour.\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Where are we on this. It appears this NULL group by is seriously\\nbroken.\\n\\nCan we have some tests on commercial databases, and get a patch\\ngenerated?\\n\\n> \\n> \\n> While looking thru the nodeGroup code, I noticed the following\\n> that I'm not sure is correct.\\n> \\n> -- Using 01-09 snapshot\\n> create table t1 (a int4, b char(2), c char(2));\\n> CREATE\\n> insert into t1 (a,c) values (1,'x');\\n> INSERT 149419 1\\n> insert into t1 (a,c) values (2,'x');\\n> INSERT 149420 1\\n> insert into t1 (a,c) values (3,'z');\\n> INSERT 149421 1\\n> insert into t1 (a,c) values (2,'x');\\n> INSERT 149422 1\\n> select * from t1;\\n> a|b|c\\n> -+-+--\\n> 1| |x \\n> 2| |x \\n> 3| |z\\n> 2| |x\\n> (4 rows)\\n> \\n> select b,c,sum(a) from t1 group by b,c;\\n> b|c |sum\\n> -+--+---\\n> |x | 3\\n> |z | 3\\n> |x | 2\\n> (3 rows)\\n> \\n> select b,c,sum(a) from t1 group by b,c order by c;\\n> b|c |sum\\n> -+--+---\\n> |x | 3\\n> |x | 2\\n> |z | 3\\n> (3 rows)\\n> \\n> In the second query, the first two rows have been grouped, but shouldn't\\n> they not be since b is NULL? I thought that NULL != NULL?\\n> \\n> If so, is the third query wrong? The first two rows are different, but\\n> only because of the aggregated column that is the source of the group by.\\n> According to the logic from the second query, these should have been\\n> grouped, no?\\n> \\n> What does the standard say about comparing two NULL values?\\n> \\n> The fixes for these inconsistencies appear to be simple. To cause a new\\n> group to be started if NULL != NULL, simply change the \\\"continue;\\\" in the\\n> sameGroup function in nodeGroup.c to \\\"return FALSE;\\\" Ignoring aggregated\\n> columns would also then be added to sameGroup().\\n> \\n> darrenk\\n> \\n> \\n\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sun, 25 Jan 1998 14:53:21 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Group By, NULL values and inconsistent behaviour.\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Bruce Momjian wrote:\\n> \\n> Where are we on this. It appears this NULL group by is seriously\\n> broken.\\n> \\n> Can we have some tests on commercial databases, and get a patch\\n> generated?\\n\\nI ran the test on Sybase. The only real changes were int4->int and\\nexplicitly calling out field b as null (it defaults to not null).\\n\\n1> select @@version\\n2> go\\n \\n ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- \\n SQL Server/11.0.2/P/Sun_svr4/OS 5.4/EBF 6536/OPT/Sat Aug 17 11:54:59 PDT 1996 \\n \\n(1 row affected)\\n1> create table t1 (a int, b char(2) null, c char(2))\\n2> go\\n1> insert into t1 (a,c) values (1,'x')\\n2> go\\n(1 row affected)\\n1> insert into t1 (a,c) values (2,'x')\\n2> go\\n(1 row affected)\\n1> insert into t1 (a,c) values (3,'z')\\n2> go\\n(1 row affected)\\n1> insert into t1 (a,c) values (2,'x')\\n2> go\\n(1 row affected)\\n1> select * from t1\\n2> go\\n a b c \\n ----------- -- -- \\n 1 NULL x \\n 2 NULL x \\n 3 NULL z \\n 2 NULL x \\n \\n(4 rows affected)\\n1> select b,c,sum(a) from t1 group by b,c\\n2> go\\n b c \\n -- -- ----------- \\n NULL x 5 \\n NULL z 3 \\n \\n(2 rows affected)\\n1> select b,c,sum(a) from t1 group by b,c order by c\\n2> go\\n b c \\n -- -- ----------- \\n NULL x 5 \\n NULL z 3 \\n \\n(2 rows affected)\\n\\nIt seems that Sybase thinks a null is a null in this case. However,\\ntry the following:\\n\\nselect * from t1 x, t1 y where x.b=y.b and y.c='z';\\n\\nSybase returns zero rows for this. It seems that it treats NULLs as\\nequal for order and group operations, but not for join operations.\\n\\nOcie Mitchell\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:20:13 -0800 (PST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"ocie@paracel.com\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Group By, NULL values and inconsistent behaviour.\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":156,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"On Sat, 17 Jan 1998, Tom wrote:\n\n> How are large users handling the vacuum problem? vaccuum locks other\n> users out of tables too long. I don't need a lot performance (a few per\n> minutes), but I need to be handle queries non-stop).\n\n\tNot sure, but this one is about the only major thing that is continuing\nto bother me :( Is there any method of improving this?\n\n> Also, how are people handling tables with lots of rows? The 8k tuple\n> size can waste a lot of space. I need to be able to handle a 2 million\n> row table, which will eat up 16GB, plus more for indexes.\n\n\tThis oen is improved upon in v6.3, where at compile time you can stipulate\nthe tuple size. We are looking into making this an 'initdb' option instead,\nso that you can have the same binary for multiple \"servers\", but any database\ncreated under a particular server will be constrained by that tuple size.\n\nMarc G. Fournier \nSystems Administrator @ hub.org \nprimary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org \n\n","msg_date":"Sat, 17 Jan 1998 19:06:21 -0400 (AST)","msg_from":"The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: [QUESTIONS] Business cases"},{"msg_contents":"\nOn Sat, 17 Jan 1998, The Hermit Hacker wrote:\n\n> On Sat, 17 Jan 1998, Tom wrote:\n> \n> > How are large users handling the vacuum problem? vaccuum locks other\n> > users out of tables too long. I don't need a lot performance (a few per\n> > minutes), but I need to be handle queries non-stop).\n> \n> \tNot sure, but this one is about the only major thing that is continuing\n> to bother me :( Is there any method of improving this?\n\n vacuum seems to do a _lot_ of stuff. It seems that crash recovery\nfeatures, and maintenance features should be separated. I believe the\nonly required maintenance features are recovering space used by deleted\ntuples and updating stats? Both of these shouldn't need to lock the\ndatabase for long periods of time.\n\n> > Also, how are people handling tables with lots of rows? The 8k tuple\n> > size can waste a lot of space. I need to be able to handle a 2 million\n> > row table, which will eat up 16GB, plus more for indexes.\n> \n> \tThis oen is improved upon in v6.3, where at compile time you can stipulate\n> the tuple size. We are looking into making this an 'initdb' option instead,\n> so that you can have the same binary for multiple \"servers\", but any database\n> created under a particular server will be constrained by that tuple size.\n\n That might help a bit, but same tables may have big rows and some not.\nFor example, my 2 million row table requires only requires two date\nfields, and 7 integer fields. That isn't very much data. However, I'd\nlike to be able to join against another table with much larger rows.\n\n> Marc G. Fournier \n> Systems Administrator @ hub.org \n> primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org \n\nTom\n\n","msg_date":"Sat, 17 Jan 1998 15:07:09 -0800 (PST)","msg_from":"Tom <tom@sdf.com>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [QUESTIONS] Business cases"},{"msg_contents":"Tom wrote:\n> > > How are large users handling the vacuum problem? vaccuum locks other\n> > > users out of tables too long. I don't need a lot performance (a few per\n> > > minutes), but I need to be handle queries non-stop).\n> >\n> > Not sure, but this one is about the only major thing that is continuing\n> > to bother me :( Is there any method of improving this?\n> \n> vacuum seems to do a _lot_ of stuff. It seems that crash recovery\n> features, and maintenance features should be separated. I believe the\n> only required maintenance features are recovering space used by deleted\n> tuples and updating stats? Both of these shouldn't need to lock the\n> database for long periods of time.\n\nWould it be possible to add an option to VACUUM, like a max number\nof blocks to sweep? Or is this impossible because of the way PG works?\n\nWould it be possible to (for example) compact data from the front of\nthe file to make one block free somewhere near the beginning of the\nfile and then move rows from the last block to this new, empty block?\n\n-- To limit the number of rows to compact:\npsql=> VACUUM MoveMax 1000; -- move max 1000 rows\n\n-- To limit the time used for vacuuming:\npsql=> VACUUM MaxSweep 1000; -- Sweep max 1000 blocks\n\nCould this work with the current method of updating statistics?\n\n\n*** Btw, why doesn't PG update statistics when inserting/updating?\n\n\n/* m */\n","msg_date":"Mon, 19 Jan 1998 13:59:56 +0100","msg_from":"Mattias Kregert <matti@algonet.se>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: Re: [HACKERS] Re: [QUESTIONS] Business cases"},{"msg_contents":"> > Also, how are people handling tables with lots of rows? The 8k tuple\n> > size can waste a lot of space. I need to be able to handle a 2 million\n> > row table, which will eat up 16GB, plus more for indexes.\n>\n> This oen is improved upon in v6.3, where at compile time you can stipulate\n> the tuple size. We are looking into making this an 'initdb' option instead,\n> so that you can have the same binary for multiple \"servers\", but any database\n> created under a particular server will be constrained by that tuple size.\n\nTom's \"problem\" is probably not a bad as he thinks. The 8k tuple size limit is a\nresult of the current 8k page size limit, but multiple tuples are allowed on a page.\nThey are just not allowed to span pages. So, there is some wasted space (as is true\nfor many, most, or all commercial dbs also) but it is on average only the size of\nhalf a tuple, and can be easily predicted once the tuple sizes are known.\n\n - Tom (T2?)\n\n","msg_date":"Mon, 19 Jan 1998 16:05:12 +0000","msg_from":"\"Thomas G. Lockhart\" <lockhart@alumni.caltech.edu>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Re: [QUESTIONS] Business cases"},{"msg_contents":"> Could this work with the current method of updating statistics?\n> \n> \n> *** Btw, why doesn't PG update statistics when inserting/updating?\n\nToo slow to do at that time. You need to span all the data to get an\naccurate figure.\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Mon, 19 Jan 1998 12:04:53 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: Re: [HACKERS] Re: [QUESTIONS] Business cases"},{"msg_contents":"Bruce Momjian wrote:\n> \n> > *** Btw, why doesn't PG update statistics when inserting/updating?\n> \n> Too slow to do at that time. You need to span all the data to get an\n> accurate figure.\n\nIs it not possible to take the current statistics and the latest\nchanges and calculate new statistics from that?\n\nWhat information is kept in these statistics? How are they used?\nObviously this is more than just number of rows, but what exactly?\n\n/* m */\n","msg_date":"Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:01:34 +0100","msg_from":"Mattias Kregert <matti@algonet.se>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Re: [QUESTIONS] Business cases"},{"msg_contents":"> \n> Bruce Momjian wrote:\n> > \n> > > *** Btw, why doesn't PG update statistics when inserting/updating?\n> > \n> > Too slow to do at that time. You need to span all the data to get an\n> > accurate figure.\n> \n> Is it not possible to take the current statistics and the latest\n> changes and calculate new statistics from that?\n> \n> What information is kept in these statistics? How are they used?\n> Obviously this is more than just number of rows, but what exactly?\n\nLook in commands/vacuum.c. It measures the spread-ness of the data, and\nthere is no way to get this figure on-the-fly unless you maintain\nbuckets for each range of data values and decrement/increment as values\nare added-subtraced. Seeing a the MySQL optimizer is a single file, and\nso is the executor, I doubt that is what it is doing. Probably just\nkeeps a count of how many rows in the table.\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:45:33 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Re: [QUESTIONS] Business cases"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"On Sat, 17 Jan 1998, Tom wrote:\\n\\n> How are large users handling the vacuum problem? vaccuum locks other\\n> users out of tables too long. I don't need a lot performance (a few per\\n> minutes), but I need to be handle queries non-stop).\\n\\n\\tNot sure, but this one is about the only major thing that is continuing\\nto bother me :( Is there any method of improving this?\\n\\n> Also, how are people handling tables with lots of rows? The 8k tuple\\n> size can waste a lot of space. I need to be able to handle a 2 million\\n> row table, which will eat up 16GB, plus more for indexes.\\n\\n\\tThis oen is improved upon in v6.3, where at compile time you can stipulate\\nthe tuple size. We are looking into making this an 'initdb' option instead,\\nso that you can have the same binary for multiple \\\"servers\\\", but any database\\ncreated under a particular server will be constrained by that tuple size.\\n\\nMarc G. Fournier \\nSystems Administrator @ hub.org \\nprimary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org \\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sat, 17 Jan 1998 19:06:21 -0400 (AST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [QUESTIONS] Business cases\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\nOn Sat, 17 Jan 1998, The Hermit Hacker wrote:\\n\\n> On Sat, 17 Jan 1998, Tom wrote:\\n> \\n> > How are large users handling the vacuum problem? vaccuum locks other\\n> > users out of tables too long. I don't need a lot performance (a few per\\n> > minutes), but I need to be handle queries non-stop).\\n> \\n> \\tNot sure, but this one is about the only major thing that is continuing\\n> to bother me :( Is there any method of improving this?\\n\\n vacuum seems to do a _lot_ of stuff. It seems that crash recovery\\nfeatures, and maintenance features should be separated. I believe the\\nonly required maintenance features are recovering space used by deleted\\ntuples and updating stats? Both of these shouldn't need to lock the\\ndatabase for long periods of time.\\n\\n> > Also, how are people handling tables with lots of rows? The 8k tuple\\n> > size can waste a lot of space. I need to be able to handle a 2 million\\n> > row table, which will eat up 16GB, plus more for indexes.\\n> \\n> \\tThis oen is improved upon in v6.3, where at compile time you can stipulate\\n> the tuple size. We are looking into making this an 'initdb' option instead,\\n> so that you can have the same binary for multiple \\\"servers\\\", but any database\\n> created under a particular server will be constrained by that tuple size.\\n\\n That might help a bit, but same tables may have big rows and some not.\\nFor example, my 2 million row table requires only requires two date\\nfields, and 7 integer fields. That isn't very much data. However, I'd\\nlike to be able to join against another table with much larger rows.\\n\\n> Marc G. Fournier \\n> Systems Administrator @ hub.org \\n> primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org \\n\\nTom\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sat, 17 Jan 1998 15:07:09 -0800 (PST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Tom <tom@sdf.com>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [QUESTIONS] Business cases\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Tom wrote:\\n> > > How are large users handling the vacuum problem? vaccuum locks other\\n> > > users out of tables too long. I don't need a lot performance (a few per\\n> > > minutes), but I need to be handle queries non-stop).\\n> >\\n> > Not sure, but this one is about the only major thing that is continuing\\n> > to bother me :( Is there any method of improving this?\\n> \\n> vacuum seems to do a _lot_ of stuff. It seems that crash recovery\\n> features, and maintenance features should be separated. I believe the\\n> only required maintenance features are recovering space used by deleted\\n> tuples and updating stats? Both of these shouldn't need to lock the\\n> database for long periods of time.\\n\\nWould it be possible to add an option to VACUUM, like a max number\\nof blocks to sweep? Or is this impossible because of the way PG works?\\n\\nWould it be possible to (for example) compact data from the front of\\nthe file to make one block free somewhere near the beginning of the\\nfile and then move rows from the last block to this new, empty block?\\n\\n-- To limit the number of rows to compact:\\npsql=> VACUUM MoveMax 1000; -- move max 1000 rows\\n\\n-- To limit the time used for vacuuming:\\npsql=> VACUUM MaxSweep 1000; -- Sweep max 1000 blocks\\n\\nCould this work with the current method of updating statistics?\\n\\n\\n*** Btw, why doesn't PG update statistics when inserting/updating?\\n\\n\\n/* m */\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 19 Jan 1998 13:59:56 +0100\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Mattias Kregert <matti@algonet.se>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: Re: [HACKERS] Re: [QUESTIONS] Business cases\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> > Also, how are people handling tables with lots of rows? The 8k tuple\\n> > size can waste a lot of space. I need to be able to handle a 2 million\\n> > row table, which will eat up 16GB, plus more for indexes.\\n>\\n> This oen is improved upon in v6.3, where at compile time you can stipulate\\n> the tuple size. We are looking into making this an 'initdb' option instead,\\n> so that you can have the same binary for multiple \\\"servers\\\", but any database\\n> created under a particular server will be constrained by that tuple size.\\n\\nTom's \\\"problem\\\" is probably not a bad as he thinks. The 8k tuple size limit is a\\nresult of the current 8k page size limit, but multiple tuples are allowed on a page.\\nThey are just not allowed to span pages. So, there is some wasted space (as is true\\nfor many, most, or all commercial dbs also) but it is on average only the size of\\nhalf a tuple, and can be easily predicted once the tuple sizes are known.\\n\\n - Tom (T2?)\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 19 Jan 1998 16:05:12 +0000\",\n \"msg_from\": \"\\\"Thomas G. Lockhart\\\" <lockhart@alumni.caltech.edu>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Re: [QUESTIONS] Business cases\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> Could this work with the current method of updating statistics?\\n> \\n> \\n> *** Btw, why doesn't PG update statistics when inserting/updating?\\n\\nToo slow to do at that time. You need to span all the data to get an\\naccurate figure.\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 19 Jan 1998 12:04:53 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: Re: [HACKERS] Re: [QUESTIONS] Business cases\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Bruce Momjian wrote:\\n> \\n> > *** Btw, why doesn't PG update statistics when inserting/updating?\\n> \\n> Too slow to do at that time. You need to span all the data to get an\\n> accurate figure.\\n\\nIs it not possible to take the current statistics and the latest\\nchanges and calculate new statistics from that?\\n\\nWhat information is kept in these statistics? How are they used?\\nObviously this is more than just number of rows, but what exactly?\\n\\n/* m */\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:01:34 +0100\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Mattias Kregert <matti@algonet.se>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Re: [QUESTIONS] Business cases\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> \\n> Bruce Momjian wrote:\\n> > \\n> > > *** Btw, why doesn't PG update statistics when inserting/updating?\\n> > \\n> > Too slow to do at that time. You need to span all the data to get an\\n> > accurate figure.\\n> \\n> Is it not possible to take the current statistics and the latest\\n> changes and calculate new statistics from that?\\n> \\n> What information is kept in these statistics? How are they used?\\n> Obviously this is more than just number of rows, but what exactly?\\n\\nLook in commands/vacuum.c. It measures the spread-ness of the data, and\\nthere is no way to get this figure on-the-fly unless you maintain\\nbuckets for each range of data values and decrement/increment as values\\nare added-subtraced. Seeing a the MySQL optimizer is a single file, and\\nso is the executor, I doubt that is what it is doing. Probably just\\nkeeps a count of how many rows in the table.\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:45:33 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Re: [QUESTIONS] Business cases\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":157,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"> > Also, how are people handling tables with lots of rows? The 8k tuple\n> > size can waste a lot of space. I need to be able to handle a 2 million\n> > row table, which will eat up 16GB, plus more for indexes.\n>\n\n16GB?!? Not unless your tuples are 8k. The 8k is/was the max _tuple_ size,\nbut more than one tuple can be stored per block. :)\n\nTry the formula in the FAQ to get a reasonable estimate for the table's size.\n\n> \tThis oen is improved upon in v6.3, where at compile time you can stipulate\n> the tuple size. We are looking into making this an 'initdb' option instead,\n> so that you can have the same binary for multiple \"servers\", but any database\n> created under a particular server will be constrained by that tuple size.\n\nIf the patch I sent to PATCHES is applied, then it will be a compile-time setting\nand you'll need a postmaster for each database w/differing block sizes. Not the\ngreatest solution, but it would work.\n\nI almost have the \"-k\" option working today. Two files left to do...\n\nbackend/access/nbtree/nbtsort.c\nbackend/utils/adt/chunk.c\n\nI'm being careful about pfree'ing all the stuff that I'm going to have to palloc.\n\nTiggers definitely do _not_ like memory leaks.\n\ndarrenk\n","msg_date":"Sat, 17 Jan 1998 18:25:27 -0500","msg_from":"darrenk@insightdist.com (Darren King)","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Re: [QUESTIONS] Business cases"},{"msg_contents":"\nOn Sat, 17 Jan 1998, Darren King wrote:\n\n> 16GB?!? Not unless your tuples are 8k. The 8k is/was the max _tuple_ size,\n> but more than one tuple can be stored per block. :)\n> \n> Try the formula in the FAQ to get a reasonable estimate for the table's size.\n\n The sentence \"Tuples do not cross 8k boundaries so a 5k tuple will\nrequire 8k of storage\" in 3.8 of the FAQ confused me. I did not realize\nthat multiple tuples could be stored in a page. So I took it to mean\nthat one tuple was stored in page. I didn't even even see 3.26, because I\nthought that 3.8 answered my question :(\n\nTom\n\n","msg_date":"Sat, 17 Jan 1998 18:10:08 -0800 (PST)","msg_from":"Tom <tom@sdf.com>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Re: [QUESTIONS] Business cases"},{"msg_contents":"> \n> > > Also, how are people handling tables with lots of rows? The 8k tuple\n> > > size can waste a lot of space. I need to be able to handle a 2 million\n> > > row table, which will eat up 16GB, plus more for indexes.\n> >\n> \n> 16GB?!? Not unless your tuples are 8k. The 8k is/was the max _tuple_ size,\n> but more than one tuple can be stored per block. :)\n> \n> Try the formula in the FAQ to get a reasonable estimate for the table's size.\n> \n\nThe FAQ copy on the web page has it. The FAQ in the 6.2.1 distribution\ndoes not.\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Sat, 17 Jan 1998 21:56:22 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Re: [QUESTIONS] Business cases"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> > Also, how are people handling tables with lots of rows? The 8k tuple\\n> > size can waste a lot of space. I need to be able to handle a 2 million\\n> > row table, which will eat up 16GB, plus more for indexes.\\n>\\n\\n16GB?!? Not unless your tuples are 8k. The 8k is/was the max _tuple_ size,\\nbut more than one tuple can be stored per block. :)\\n\\nTry the formula in the FAQ to get a reasonable estimate for the table's size.\\n\\n> \\tThis oen is improved upon in v6.3, where at compile time you can stipulate\\n> the tuple size. We are looking into making this an 'initdb' option instead,\\n> so that you can have the same binary for multiple \\\"servers\\\", but any database\\n> created under a particular server will be constrained by that tuple size.\\n\\nIf the patch I sent to PATCHES is applied, then it will be a compile-time setting\\nand you'll need a postmaster for each database w/differing block sizes. Not the\\ngreatest solution, but it would work.\\n\\nI almost have the \\\"-k\\\" option working today. Two files left to do...\\n\\nbackend/access/nbtree/nbtsort.c\\nbackend/utils/adt/chunk.c\\n\\nI'm being careful about pfree'ing all the stuff that I'm going to have to palloc.\\n\\nTiggers definitely do _not_ like memory leaks.\\n\\ndarrenk\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sat, 17 Jan 1998 18:25:27 -0500\",\n \"msg_from\": \"darrenk@insightdist.com (Darren King)\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Re: [QUESTIONS] Business cases\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\nOn Sat, 17 Jan 1998, Darren King wrote:\\n\\n> 16GB?!? Not unless your tuples are 8k. The 8k is/was the max _tuple_ size,\\n> but more than one tuple can be stored per block. :)\\n> \\n> Try the formula in the FAQ to get a reasonable estimate for the table's size.\\n\\n The sentence \\\"Tuples do not cross 8k boundaries so a 5k tuple will\\nrequire 8k of storage\\\" in 3.8 of the FAQ confused me. I did not realize\\nthat multiple tuples could be stored in a page. So I took it to mean\\nthat one tuple was stored in page. I didn't even even see 3.26, because I\\nthought that 3.8 answered my question :(\\n\\nTom\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sat, 17 Jan 1998 18:10:08 -0800 (PST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Tom <tom@sdf.com>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Re: [QUESTIONS] Business cases\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> \\n> > > Also, how are people handling tables with lots of rows? The 8k tuple\\n> > > size can waste a lot of space. I need to be able to handle a 2 million\\n> > > row table, which will eat up 16GB, plus more for indexes.\\n> >\\n> \\n> 16GB?!? Not unless your tuples are 8k. The 8k is/was the max _tuple_ size,\\n> but more than one tuple can be stored per block. :)\\n> \\n> Try the formula in the FAQ to get a reasonable estimate for the table's size.\\n> \\n\\nThe FAQ copy on the web page has it. The FAQ in the 6.2.1 distribution\\ndoes not.\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sat, 17 Jan 1998 21:56:22 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Re: [QUESTIONS] Business cases\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":158,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"> > > Also, how are people handling tables with lots of rows? The 8k tuple\n> > > size can waste a lot of space. I need to be able to handle a 2 million\n> > > row table, which will eat up 16GB, plus more for indexes.\n> > \n> > \tThis oen is improved upon in v6.3, where at compile time you can stipulate\n> > the tuple size. We are looking into making this an 'initdb' option instead,\n> > so that you can have the same binary for multiple \"servers\", but any database\n> > created under a particular server will be constrained by that tuple size.\n> \n> That might help a bit, but same tables may have big rows and some not.\n> For example, my 2 million row table requires only requires two date\n> fields, and 7 integer fields. That isn't very much data. However, I'd\n> like to be able to join against another table with much larger rows.\n\nTwo dates and 7 integers would make tuple of 90-some bytes, call it 100 max.\nSo you would prolly get 80 tuples per 8k page, so 25000 pages would use a\nfile of 200 meg.\n\nThe block size parameter will be database-specific, not table-specific, and\nsince you can't join tables from different _databases_, 2nd issue is moot.\n\nIf I could get around to the tablespace concept again, then maybe a different\nblock size per tablespace would be useful. But, that is putting the cart\na couple of light-years ahead of the proverbial horse...\n\nDarren aka darrenk@insightdist.com\n","msg_date":"Sat, 17 Jan 1998 18:44:54 -0500","msg_from":"darrenk@insightdist.com (Darren King)","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Re: [QUESTIONS] Business cases"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> > > Also, how are people handling tables with lots of rows? The 8k tuple\\n> > > size can waste a lot of space. I need to be able to handle a 2 million\\n> > > row table, which will eat up 16GB, plus more for indexes.\\n> > \\n> > \\tThis oen is improved upon in v6.3, where at compile time you can stipulate\\n> > the tuple size. We are looking into making this an 'initdb' option instead,\\n> > so that you can have the same binary for multiple \\\"servers\\\", but any database\\n> > created under a particular server will be constrained by that tuple size.\\n> \\n> That might help a bit, but same tables may have big rows and some not.\\n> For example, my 2 million row table requires only requires two date\\n> fields, and 7 integer fields. That isn't very much data. However, I'd\\n> like to be able to join against another table with much larger rows.\\n\\nTwo dates and 7 integers would make tuple of 90-some bytes, call it 100 max.\\nSo you would prolly get 80 tuples per 8k page, so 25000 pages would use a\\nfile of 200 meg.\\n\\nThe block size parameter will be database-specific, not table-specific, and\\nsince you can't join tables from different _databases_, 2nd issue is moot.\\n\\nIf I could get around to the tablespace concept again, then maybe a different\\nblock size per tablespace would be useful. But, that is putting the cart\\na couple of light-years ahead of the proverbial horse...\\n\\nDarren aka darrenk@insightdist.com\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sat, 17 Jan 1998 18:44:54 -0500\",\n \"msg_from\": \"darrenk@insightdist.com (Darren King)\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Re: [QUESTIONS] Business cases\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":159,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"\nI installed some patches today for the univel port, and one of the changes\ndid the following to include/storage/s_lock.h:\n\n302c318\n< __asm__(\"xchgb %0,%1\": \"=q\"(_res), \"=m\"(*lock):\"0\"(0x1)); \\\n---\n> __asm__(\"lock xchgb %0,%1\": \"=q\"(_res), \"=m\"(*lock):\"0\"(0x1)); \\\n\n\nUnder FreeBSD, this breaks the compile with an 'unimplemented' error...I'm\nnot going to commit the \"fix\" yet (reverse the patch)...does this break other\nports as well, or just FreeBSD? Anyone with Assembler experience out there? :)\n\n\nMarc G. Fournier \nSystems Administrator @ hub.org \nprimary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org \n\n","msg_date":"Sat, 17 Jan 1998 21:38:48 -0400 (AST)","msg_from":"The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"S_LOCK() change produces error..."},{"msg_contents":"> \n> \n> I installed some patches today for the univel port, and one of the changes\n> did the following to include/storage/s_lock.h:\n> \n> 302c318\n> < __asm__(\"xchgb %0,%1\": \"=q\"(_res), \"=m\"(*lock):\"0\"(0x1)); \\\n> ---\n> > __asm__(\"lock xchgb %0,%1\": \"=q\"(_res), \"=m\"(*lock):\"0\"(0x1)); \\\n> \n\nI guess this is a multiple cpu modifier for asm, and most people don't\nrun multiple cpus. I guess our gcc's call it an error, rather than\nignore it. I think we need an OS-specific ifdef there. We can't have\nUnivel changing the normal i386 stuff that works so well now.\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Sat, 17 Jan 1998 21:59:43 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] S_LOCK() change produces error..."},{"msg_contents":"On Sat, 17 Jan 1998, Bruce Momjian wrote:\n\n> > \n> > \n> > I installed some patches today for the univel port, and one of the changes\n> > did the following to include/storage/s_lock.h:\n> > \n> > 302c318\n> > < __asm__(\"xchgb %0,%1\": \"=q\"(_res), \"=m\"(*lock):\"0\"(0x1)); \\\n> > ---\n> > > __asm__(\"lock xchgb %0,%1\": \"=q\"(_res), \"=m\"(*lock):\"0\"(0x1)); \\\n> > \n> \n> I guess this is a multiple cpu modifier for asm, and most people don't\n> run multiple cpus. I guess our gcc's call it an error, rather than\n> ignore it. I think we need an OS-specific ifdef there. We can't have\n> Univel changing the normal i386 stuff that works so well now.\n\n\tActually, I think that the patch was meant to improve...if you look at the\ncode, he put all the Univel stuff inside of its own #ifdef...see around\nline 297 in include/storage/s_lock.h and you'll see what I mean.\n\n\tHe seems to have only added a 'lock' to the beginning of the __asm__, \nwhich is what is breaking things under FreeBSD, but unless it affects every\nother port, I'm loath to remove it without just throwing in a FreeBSD #ifdef\nin there...\n\nMarc G. Fournier \nSystems Administrator @ hub.org \nprimary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org \n\n","msg_date":"Sat, 17 Jan 1998 23:05:54 -0400 (AST)","msg_from":"The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] S_LOCK() change produces error..."},{"msg_contents":"> \n> On Sat, 17 Jan 1998, Bruce Momjian wrote:\n> \n> > > \n> > > \n> > > I installed some patches today for the univel port, and one of the changes\n> > > did the following to include/storage/s_lock.h:\n> > > \n> > > 302c318\n> > > < __asm__(\"xchgb %0,%1\": \"=q\"(_res), \"=m\"(*lock):\"0\"(0x1)); \\\n> > > ---\n> > > > __asm__(\"lock xchgb %0,%1\": \"=q\"(_res), \"=m\"(*lock):\"0\"(0x1)); \\\n> > > \n> > \n> > I guess this is a multiple cpu modifier for asm, and most people don't\n> > run multiple cpus. I guess our gcc's call it an error, rather than\n> > ignore it. I think we need an OS-specific ifdef there. We can't have\n> > Univel changing the normal i386 stuff that works so well now.\n> \n> \tActually, I think that the patch was meant to improve...if you look at the\n> code, he put all the Univel stuff inside of its own #ifdef...see around\n> line 297 in include/storage/s_lock.h and you'll see what I mean.\n> \n> \tHe seems to have only added a 'lock' to the beginning of the __asm__, \n> which is what is breaking things under FreeBSD, but unless it affects every\n> other port, I'm loath to remove it without just throwing in a FreeBSD #ifdef\n> in there...\n\nI will check when I apply my next patch. I am hesitant to cvsup at this\ntime if the code is broken.\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Sat, 17 Jan 1998 22:37:19 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] S_LOCK() change produces error..."},{"msg_contents":"On Sat, 17 Jan 1998, The Hermit Hacker wrote:\n\n> On Sat, 17 Jan 1998, Bruce Momjian wrote:\n> > > I installed some patches today for the univel port, and one of the changes\n> > > did the following to include/storage/s_lock.h:\n> > > \n> > > 302c318\n> > > < __asm__(\"xchgb %0,%1\": \"=q\"(_res), \"=m\"(*lock):\"0\"(0x1)); \\\n> > > ---\n> > > > __asm__(\"lock xchgb %0,%1\": \"=q\"(_res), \"=m\"(*lock):\"0\"(0x1)); \\\n> > \n> > I guess this is a multiple cpu modifier for asm, and most people don't\n> > run multiple cpus. I guess our gcc's call it an error, rather than\n> > ignore it. I think we need an OS-specific ifdef there. We can't have\n> > Univel changing the normal i386 stuff that works so well now.\n> \n> \tActually, I think that the patch was meant to improve...if you look at the\n> code, he put all the Univel stuff inside of its own #ifdef...see around\n> line 297 in include/storage/s_lock.h and you'll see what I mean.\n> \n> \tHe seems to have only added a 'lock' to the beginning of the __asm__, \n> which is what is breaking things under FreeBSD, but unless it affects every\n> other port, I'm loath to remove it without just throwing in a FreeBSD #ifdef\n> in there...\n\n(clip from SMP support in linux' asm/spinlocks.h)\n#define spin_unlock(lock) \\\n__asm__ __volatile__( \\\n\t\"lock ; btrl $0,%0\" \\\n\t:\"=m\" (__dummy_lock(lock)))\n\nin linux the lock has \";\" following.\nYep - it's for multiCPU systems (SMP). Handy for shared-memory systems\ntoo if you're really into multithreading-speed.\n\nIt locks that particular byte (word?) of memory against access by other\nCPU's accessing it IIRC...\n\nPerhaps your GAS is too old? (GNU binutils)\n(does BSD support multiple CPU's under intel?)\n\nmultiprocessor really isn't that rare under linux - even Linus Torvalds\nuses a SMP system *grin*...\n\nMaybe he encountered a locking problem with a multicpu host and needed a\nsemaphore (or equiv) to lock things? Just trying to figure this out...\n(sometimes necessary if you're doing shared memory across processes)\n\nG'day, eh? :)\n\t- Teunis\n\n","msg_date":"Mon, 19 Jan 1998 16:28:46 -0700 (MST)","msg_from":"teunis <teunis@mauve.computersupportcentre.com>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] S_LOCK() change produces error..."},{"msg_contents":"> \n> On Sat, 17 Jan 1998, The Hermit Hacker wrote:\n> \n> > On Sat, 17 Jan 1998, Bruce Momjian wrote:\n> > > > I installed some patches today for the univel port, and one of the changes\n> > > > did the following to include/storage/s_lock.h:\n> > > > \n> > > > 302c318\n> > > > < __asm__(\"xchgb %0,%1\": \"=q\"(_res), \"=m\"(*lock):\"0\"(0x1)); \\\n> > > > ---\n> > > > > __asm__(\"lock xchgb %0,%1\": \"=q\"(_res), \"=m\"(*lock):\"0\"(0x1)); \\\n> > > \n> > > I guess this is a multiple cpu modifier for asm, and most people don't\n> > > run multiple cpus. I guess our gcc's call it an error, rather than\n> > > ignore it. I think we need an OS-specific ifdef there. We can't have\n> > > Univel changing the normal i386 stuff that works so well now.\n> > \n> > \tActually, I think that the patch was meant to improve...if you look at the\n> > code, he put all the Univel stuff inside of its own #ifdef...see around\n> > line 297 in include/storage/s_lock.h and you'll see what I mean.\n> > \n> > \tHe seems to have only added a 'lock' to the beginning of the __asm__, \n> > which is what is breaking things under FreeBSD, but unless it affects every\n> > other port, I'm loath to remove it without just throwing in a FreeBSD #ifdef\n> > in there...\n> \n> (clip from SMP support in linux' asm/spinlocks.h)\n> #define spin_unlock(lock) \\\n> __asm__ __volatile__( \\\n> \t\"lock ; btrl $0,%0\" \\\n> \t:\"=m\" (__dummy_lock(lock)))\n> \n> in linux the lock has \";\" following.\n> Yep - it's for multiCPU systems (SMP). Handy for shared-memory systems\n> too if you're really into multithreading-speed.\n> \n> It locks that particular byte (word?) of memory against access by other\n> CPU's accessing it IIRC...\n> \n> Perhaps your GAS is too old? (GNU binutils)\n> (does BSD support multiple CPU's under intel?)\n> \n> multiprocessor really isn't that rare under linux - even Linus Torvalds\n> uses a SMP system *grin*...\n> \n> Maybe he encountered a locking problem with a multicpu host and needed a\n> semaphore (or equiv) to lock things? Just trying to figure this out...\n> (sometimes necessary if you're doing shared memory across processes)\n\nMarc, I will try 'lock;' and if it works, will submit a patch.\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Mon, 19 Jan 1998 18:59:32 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] S_LOCK() change produces error..."},{"msg_contents":"> > (clip from SMP support in linux' asm/spinlocks.h)\n> > #define spin_unlock(lock) \\\n> > __asm__ __volatile__( \\\n> > \t\"lock ; btrl $0,%0\" \\\n> > \t:\"=m\" (__dummy_lock(lock)))\n> > \n> > in linux the lock has \";\" following.\n> > Yep - it's for multiCPU systems (SMP). Handy for shared-memory systems\n> > too if you're really into multithreading-speed.\n> > \n> > It locks that particular byte (word?) of memory against access by other\n> > CPU's accessing it IIRC...\n> > \n> > Perhaps your GAS is too old? (GNU binutils)\n> > (does BSD support multiple CPU's under intel?)\n> > \n> > multiprocessor really isn't that rare under linux - even Linus Torvalds\n> > uses a SMP system *grin*...\n> > \n> > Maybe he encountered a locking problem with a multicpu host and needed a\n> > semaphore (or equiv) to lock things? Just trying to figure this out...\n> > (sometimes necessary if you're doing shared memory across processes)\n> \n> Marc, I will try 'lock;' and if it works, will submit a patch.\n\nYep, it works. Patch applied.\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Tue, 20 Jan 1998 14:37:24 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] S_LOCK() change produces error..."}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\nI installed some patches today for the univel port, and one of the changes\\ndid the following to include/storage/s_lock.h:\\n\\n302c318\\n< __asm__(\\\"xchgb %0,%1\\\": \\\"=q\\\"(_res), \\\"=m\\\"(*lock):\\\"0\\\"(0x1)); \\\\\\n---\\n> __asm__(\\\"lock xchgb %0,%1\\\": \\\"=q\\\"(_res), \\\"=m\\\"(*lock):\\\"0\\\"(0x1)); \\\\\\n\\n\\nUnder FreeBSD, this breaks the compile with an 'unimplemented' error...I'm\\nnot going to commit the \\\"fix\\\" yet (reverse the patch)...does this break other\\nports as well, or just FreeBSD? Anyone with Assembler experience out there? :)\\n\\n\\nMarc G. Fournier \\nSystems Administrator @ hub.org \\nprimary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org \\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sat, 17 Jan 1998 21:38:48 -0400 (AST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"S_LOCK() change produces error...\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> \\n> \\n> I installed some patches today for the univel port, and one of the changes\\n> did the following to include/storage/s_lock.h:\\n> \\n> 302c318\\n> < __asm__(\\\"xchgb %0,%1\\\": \\\"=q\\\"(_res), \\\"=m\\\"(*lock):\\\"0\\\"(0x1)); \\\\\\n> ---\\n> > __asm__(\\\"lock xchgb %0,%1\\\": \\\"=q\\\"(_res), \\\"=m\\\"(*lock):\\\"0\\\"(0x1)); \\\\\\n> \\n\\nI guess this is a multiple cpu modifier for asm, and most people don't\\nrun multiple cpus. I guess our gcc's call it an error, rather than\\nignore it. I think we need an OS-specific ifdef there. We can't have\\nUnivel changing the normal i386 stuff that works so well now.\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sat, 17 Jan 1998 21:59:43 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] S_LOCK() change produces error...\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"On Sat, 17 Jan 1998, Bruce Momjian wrote:\\n\\n> > \\n> > \\n> > I installed some patches today for the univel port, and one of the changes\\n> > did the following to include/storage/s_lock.h:\\n> > \\n> > 302c318\\n> > < __asm__(\\\"xchgb %0,%1\\\": \\\"=q\\\"(_res), \\\"=m\\\"(*lock):\\\"0\\\"(0x1)); \\\\\\n> > ---\\n> > > __asm__(\\\"lock xchgb %0,%1\\\": \\\"=q\\\"(_res), \\\"=m\\\"(*lock):\\\"0\\\"(0x1)); \\\\\\n> > \\n> \\n> I guess this is a multiple cpu modifier for asm, and most people don't\\n> run multiple cpus. I guess our gcc's call it an error, rather than\\n> ignore it. I think we need an OS-specific ifdef there. We can't have\\n> Univel changing the normal i386 stuff that works so well now.\\n\\n\\tActually, I think that the patch was meant to improve...if you look at the\\ncode, he put all the Univel stuff inside of its own #ifdef...see around\\nline 297 in include/storage/s_lock.h and you'll see what I mean.\\n\\n\\tHe seems to have only added a 'lock' to the beginning of the __asm__, \\nwhich is what is breaking things under FreeBSD, but unless it affects every\\nother port, I'm loath to remove it without just throwing in a FreeBSD #ifdef\\nin there...\\n\\nMarc G. Fournier \\nSystems Administrator @ hub.org \\nprimary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org \\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sat, 17 Jan 1998 23:05:54 -0400 (AST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] S_LOCK() change produces error...\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> \\n> On Sat, 17 Jan 1998, Bruce Momjian wrote:\\n> \\n> > > \\n> > > \\n> > > I installed some patches today for the univel port, and one of the changes\\n> > > did the following to include/storage/s_lock.h:\\n> > > \\n> > > 302c318\\n> > > < __asm__(\\\"xchgb %0,%1\\\": \\\"=q\\\"(_res), \\\"=m\\\"(*lock):\\\"0\\\"(0x1)); \\\\\\n> > > ---\\n> > > > __asm__(\\\"lock xchgb %0,%1\\\": \\\"=q\\\"(_res), \\\"=m\\\"(*lock):\\\"0\\\"(0x1)); \\\\\\n> > > \\n> > \\n> > I guess this is a multiple cpu modifier for asm, and most people don't\\n> > run multiple cpus. I guess our gcc's call it an error, rather than\\n> > ignore it. I think we need an OS-specific ifdef there. We can't have\\n> > Univel changing the normal i386 stuff that works so well now.\\n> \\n> \\tActually, I think that the patch was meant to improve...if you look at the\\n> code, he put all the Univel stuff inside of its own #ifdef...see around\\n> line 297 in include/storage/s_lock.h and you'll see what I mean.\\n> \\n> \\tHe seems to have only added a 'lock' to the beginning of the __asm__, \\n> which is what is breaking things under FreeBSD, but unless it affects every\\n> other port, I'm loath to remove it without just throwing in a FreeBSD #ifdef\\n> in there...\\n\\nI will check when I apply my next patch. I am hesitant to cvsup at this\\ntime if the code is broken.\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sat, 17 Jan 1998 22:37:19 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] S_LOCK() change produces error...\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"On Sat, 17 Jan 1998, The Hermit Hacker wrote:\\n\\n> On Sat, 17 Jan 1998, Bruce Momjian wrote:\\n> > > I installed some patches today for the univel port, and one of the changes\\n> > > did the following to include/storage/s_lock.h:\\n> > > \\n> > > 302c318\\n> > > < __asm__(\\\"xchgb %0,%1\\\": \\\"=q\\\"(_res), \\\"=m\\\"(*lock):\\\"0\\\"(0x1)); \\\\\\n> > > ---\\n> > > > __asm__(\\\"lock xchgb %0,%1\\\": \\\"=q\\\"(_res), \\\"=m\\\"(*lock):\\\"0\\\"(0x1)); \\\\\\n> > \\n> > I guess this is a multiple cpu modifier for asm, and most people don't\\n> > run multiple cpus. I guess our gcc's call it an error, rather than\\n> > ignore it. I think we need an OS-specific ifdef there. We can't have\\n> > Univel changing the normal i386 stuff that works so well now.\\n> \\n> \\tActually, I think that the patch was meant to improve...if you look at the\\n> code, he put all the Univel stuff inside of its own #ifdef...see around\\n> line 297 in include/storage/s_lock.h and you'll see what I mean.\\n> \\n> \\tHe seems to have only added a 'lock' to the beginning of the __asm__, \\n> which is what is breaking things under FreeBSD, but unless it affects every\\n> other port, I'm loath to remove it without just throwing in a FreeBSD #ifdef\\n> in there...\\n\\n(clip from SMP support in linux' asm/spinlocks.h)\\n#define spin_unlock(lock) \\\\\\n__asm__ __volatile__( \\\\\\n\\t\\\"lock ; btrl $0,%0\\\" \\\\\\n\\t:\\\"=m\\\" (__dummy_lock(lock)))\\n\\nin linux the lock has \\\";\\\" following.\\nYep - it's for multiCPU systems (SMP). Handy for shared-memory systems\\ntoo if you're really into multithreading-speed.\\n\\nIt locks that particular byte (word?) of memory against access by other\\nCPU's accessing it IIRC...\\n\\nPerhaps your GAS is too old? (GNU binutils)\\n(does BSD support multiple CPU's under intel?)\\n\\nmultiprocessor really isn't that rare under linux - even Linus Torvalds\\nuses a SMP system *grin*...\\n\\nMaybe he encountered a locking problem with a multicpu host and needed a\\nsemaphore (or equiv) to lock things? Just trying to figure this out...\\n(sometimes necessary if you're doing shared memory across processes)\\n\\nG'day, eh? :)\\n\\t- Teunis\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 19 Jan 1998 16:28:46 -0700 (MST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"teunis <teunis@mauve.computersupportcentre.com>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] S_LOCK() change produces error...\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> \\n> On Sat, 17 Jan 1998, The Hermit Hacker wrote:\\n> \\n> > On Sat, 17 Jan 1998, Bruce Momjian wrote:\\n> > > > I installed some patches today for the univel port, and one of the changes\\n> > > > did the following to include/storage/s_lock.h:\\n> > > > \\n> > > > 302c318\\n> > > > < __asm__(\\\"xchgb %0,%1\\\": \\\"=q\\\"(_res), \\\"=m\\\"(*lock):\\\"0\\\"(0x1)); \\\\\\n> > > > ---\\n> > > > > __asm__(\\\"lock xchgb %0,%1\\\": \\\"=q\\\"(_res), \\\"=m\\\"(*lock):\\\"0\\\"(0x1)); \\\\\\n> > > \\n> > > I guess this is a multiple cpu modifier for asm, and most people don't\\n> > > run multiple cpus. I guess our gcc's call it an error, rather than\\n> > > ignore it. I think we need an OS-specific ifdef there. We can't have\\n> > > Univel changing the normal i386 stuff that works so well now.\\n> > \\n> > \\tActually, I think that the patch was meant to improve...if you look at the\\n> > code, he put all the Univel stuff inside of its own #ifdef...see around\\n> > line 297 in include/storage/s_lock.h and you'll see what I mean.\\n> > \\n> > \\tHe seems to have only added a 'lock' to the beginning of the __asm__, \\n> > which is what is breaking things under FreeBSD, but unless it affects every\\n> > other port, I'm loath to remove it without just throwing in a FreeBSD #ifdef\\n> > in there...\\n> \\n> (clip from SMP support in linux' asm/spinlocks.h)\\n> #define spin_unlock(lock) \\\\\\n> __asm__ __volatile__( \\\\\\n> \\t\\\"lock ; btrl $0,%0\\\" \\\\\\n> \\t:\\\"=m\\\" (__dummy_lock(lock)))\\n> \\n> in linux the lock has \\\";\\\" following.\\n> Yep - it's for multiCPU systems (SMP). Handy for shared-memory systems\\n> too if you're really into multithreading-speed.\\n> \\n> It locks that particular byte (word?) of memory against access by other\\n> CPU's accessing it IIRC...\\n> \\n> Perhaps your GAS is too old? (GNU binutils)\\n> (does BSD support multiple CPU's under intel?)\\n> \\n> multiprocessor really isn't that rare under linux - even Linus Torvalds\\n> uses a SMP system *grin*...\\n> \\n> Maybe he encountered a locking problem with a multicpu host and needed a\\n> semaphore (or equiv) to lock things? Just trying to figure this out...\\n> (sometimes necessary if you're doing shared memory across processes)\\n\\nMarc, I will try 'lock;' and if it works, will submit a patch.\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 19 Jan 1998 18:59:32 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] S_LOCK() change produces error...\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> > (clip from SMP support in linux' asm/spinlocks.h)\\n> > #define spin_unlock(lock) \\\\\\n> > __asm__ __volatile__( \\\\\\n> > \\t\\\"lock ; btrl $0,%0\\\" \\\\\\n> > \\t:\\\"=m\\\" (__dummy_lock(lock)))\\n> > \\n> > in linux the lock has \\\";\\\" following.\\n> > Yep - it's for multiCPU systems (SMP). Handy for shared-memory systems\\n> > too if you're really into multithreading-speed.\\n> > \\n> > It locks that particular byte (word?) of memory against access by other\\n> > CPU's accessing it IIRC...\\n> > \\n> > Perhaps your GAS is too old? (GNU binutils)\\n> > (does BSD support multiple CPU's under intel?)\\n> > \\n> > multiprocessor really isn't that rare under linux - even Linus Torvalds\\n> > uses a SMP system *grin*...\\n> > \\n> > Maybe he encountered a locking problem with a multicpu host and needed a\\n> > semaphore (or equiv) to lock things? Just trying to figure this out...\\n> > (sometimes necessary if you're doing shared memory across processes)\\n> \\n> Marc, I will try 'lock;' and if it works, will submit a patch.\\n\\nYep, it works. Patch applied.\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 20 Jan 1998 14:37:24 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] S_LOCK() change produces error...\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":160,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"\nvacuuming template1\nAltering pg_user acl\npostgres in free(): warning: modified (chunk-) pointer.\npostgres in free(): warning: modified (chunk-) pointer.\nloading pg_description\n\n\n> psql template1\npsql in free(): warning: junk pointer, too high to make sense.\nWelcome to the POSTGRESQL interactive sql monitor:\n Please read the file COPYRIGHT for copyright terms of POSTGRESQL\n\n type \\? for help on slash commands\n type \\q to quit\n type \\g or terminate with semicolon to execute query\n You are currently connected to the database: template1\n\ntemplate1=> \n\n\n\n\nMarc G. Fournier \nSystems Administrator @ hub.org \nprimary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org \n\n","msg_date":"Sat, 17 Jan 1998 21:55:25 -0400 (AST)","msg_from":"The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"free() error in current source tree under FreeBSD..."}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\nvacuuming template1\\nAltering pg_user acl\\npostgres in free(): warning: modified (chunk-) pointer.\\npostgres in free(): warning: modified (chunk-) pointer.\\nloading pg_description\\n\\n\\n> psql template1\\npsql in free(): warning: junk pointer, too high to make sense.\\nWelcome to the POSTGRESQL interactive sql monitor:\\n Please read the file COPYRIGHT for copyright terms of POSTGRESQL\\n\\n type \\\\? for help on slash commands\\n type \\\\q to quit\\n type \\\\g or terminate with semicolon to execute query\\n You are currently connected to the database: template1\\n\\ntemplate1=> \\n\\n\\n\\n\\nMarc G. Fournier \\nSystems Administrator @ hub.org \\nprimary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org \\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sat, 17 Jan 1998 21:55:25 -0400 (AST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"free() error in current source tree under FreeBSD...\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":161,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"\nIn trying to use gdb to step through the code, it appears that the problem\nis manifesting itself in PQsetdb():\n \n(gdb) s\n2518 if (settings.getPassword)\n(gdb) s\n2533 settings.db = PQsetdb(host, port, NULL, NULL, dbname);\n(gdb) s\npsql in free(): warning: junk pointer, too high to make sense.\n2534 }\n(gdb) \n\n\nMarc G. Fournier \nSystems Administrator @ hub.org \nprimary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org \n\n\n","msg_date":"Sat, 17 Jan 1998 22:35:52 -0400 (AST)","msg_from":"The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"More on free() bug..."}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\nIn trying to use gdb to step through the code, it appears that the problem\\nis manifesting itself in PQsetdb():\\n \\n(gdb) s\\n2518 if (settings.getPassword)\\n(gdb) s\\n2533 settings.db = PQsetdb(host, port, NULL, NULL, dbname);\\n(gdb) s\\npsql in free(): warning: junk pointer, too high to make sense.\\n2534 }\\n(gdb) \\n\\n\\nMarc G. Fournier \\nSystems Administrator @ hub.org \\nprimary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org \\n\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sat, 17 Jan 1998 22:35:52 -0400 (AST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"More on free() bug...\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":162,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"unsubscribe\n","msg_date":"Sat, 17 Jan 1998 20:09:39 -0800 (PST)","msg_from":"gordoni@base.com (Gordon Irlam)","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"unusb"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"unsubscribe\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sat, 17 Jan 1998 20:09:39 -0800 (PST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"gordoni@base.com (Gordon Irlam)\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"unusb\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":163,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"\n\n Hi,\n\n I got no answer from pgsql-questions list.\n\n basically I'm using only one table at a time, and I need only a few\nsimple operations on tuples (find, add, updates, delete).\n\n -- after a quick look at all `cd src; find . -name '*.h'` I didn't\nfind any such similar interface.\n\n Can sombody advise me how could I get this simple interface ?\n\n I'm fluent in C/C++.\n\n Thanx,\n\n Jan\n\n\n -- Gospel of Jesus is the saving power of God for all who believe --\nJan Vicherek ## To some, nothing is impossible. ## www.ied.com/~honza\n >>> Free Software Union President ... www.fslu.org <<<\nInteractive Electronic Design Inc. -#- PGP: finger honza@ied.com\n\n---------- Forwarded message ----------\nDate: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:03:05 -0500 (EST)\nFrom: Jan Vicherek <honza@ied.com>\nTo: pgsql-questions@postgresql.org\nSubject: non-SQL C interface ?\n\n\n If I would like to access the database through a C interface using a few\nsimple database operations, like \nopen db\nselect fields to work with\nselect index to use\nselect a record\nupdate a record\nadd a record\ndelete a record\nlock a table against updates, unlock\n\n and that's it. (Taken from Informinx 3.3, \"ALL-II\" C interface.)\n\n We are looking into porting an app written for this Informix interface\ninto Postgres, and I would wrinte a library simulating these calls.\n\n Is there a set of calls seomwhere inside of PGSQL that I could use in my\nsimulation library to utilize ?\n\n THanx, \n\n Jan\n\n\n -- Gospel of Jesus is the saving power of God for all who believe --\nJan Vicherek ## To some, nothing is impossible. ## www.ied.com/~honza\n >>> Free Software Union President ... www.fslu.org <<<\nInteractive Electronic Design Inc. -#- PGP: finger honza@ied.com\n\n\n","msg_date":"Sun, 18 Jan 1998 01:21:32 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Jan Vicherek <honza@ied.com>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"non-SQL C interface ? (fwd)"},{"msg_contents":"On Sun, 18 Jan 1998, Jan Vicherek wrote:\n> Hi,\n> \n> I got no answer from pgsql-questions list.\n\nI saw this there, but was knee deep in code at the time\n\n> basically I'm using only one table at a time, and I need only a few\n> simple operations on tuples (find, add, updates, delete).\n> \n> -- after a quick look at all `cd src; find . -name '*.h'` I didn't\n> find any such similar interface.\n> \n> Can sombody advise me how could I get this simple interface ?\n> \n> I'm fluent in C/C++.\n\nI think the simplest way of doing this is to write your own stubs, that\nthen sit on top of libpq. This is the way I've done this in the past.\n\n[snip]\n\n> and that's it. (Taken from Informinx 3.3, \"ALL-II\" C interface.)\n> \n> We are looking into porting an app written for this Informix interface\n> into Postgres, and I would wrinte a library simulating these calls.\n> \n> Is there a set of calls seomwhere inside of PGSQL that I could use in my\n> simulation library to utilize ?\n\nAs your trying to simulate another api, and it looked like it's fairly\nsimple, then it should be simple to do this, leaving libpq to do the\nactual network stuff to the database.\n\n-- \nPeter T Mount petermount@earthling.net or pmount@maidast.demon.co.uk\nMain Homepage: http://www.demon.co.uk/finder\nWork Homepage: http://www.maidstone.gov.uk Work EMail: peter@maidstone.gov.uk\n\n","msg_date":"Sun, 18 Jan 1998 11:34:54 +0000 (GMT)","msg_from":"Peter T Mount <psqlhack@maidast.demon.co.uk>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] non-SQL C interface ? (fwd)"},{"msg_contents":"On Sun, 18 Jan 1998, Peter T Mount wrote:\n\n> > basically I'm using only one table at a time, and I need only a few\n> > simple operations on tuples (find, add, updates, delete).\n> > \n> > Can sombody advise me how could I get this simple interface ?\n> \n> I think the simplest way of doing this is to write your own stubs, that\n> then sit on top of libpq. This is the way I've done this in the past.\n\n It seems like a bit of overkill, since this would still have to go\nthrough the SQL parser,optimizer,executor,etc. If I want to access the\ntables only one at a time, and only load the rows into a simple C\nstructure, it seems like there has to be this interface, since the SQL\nexecutor has to get to the data somehow too. And I thought it would be\nthrough this C interface that I'm looking for.\n\n here goes the list of simple few calls I need :\nopen db\nselect fields to work with\nselect index to use\nselect a record\nupdate a record\nadd a record\ndelete a record\nlock a table against updates, unlock\n\n> > and that's it. (Taken from Informinx 3.3, \"ALL-II\" C interface.)\n> > \n> > We are looking into porting an app written for this Informix interface\n> > into Postgres, and I would wrinte a library simulating these calls.\n> > \n> > Is there a set of calls seomwhere inside of PGSQL that I could use in my\n> > simulation library to utilize ?\n> \n> As your trying to simulate another api, and it looked like it's fairly\n> simple, then it should be simple to do this, leaving libpq to do the\n> actual network stuff to the database.\n\n but libpq and do *only* SQL calls only, right ? Or can libpq do some of\nthese lower-level stuff too? that would be excellent !\n\n Thanx, \n\n Jan\n\n -- Gospel of Jesus is the saving power of God for all who believe --\nJan Vicherek ## To some, nothing is impossible. ## www.ied.com/~honza\n >>> Free Software Union President ... www.fslu.org <<<\nInteractive Electronic Design Inc. -#- PGP: finger honza@ied.com\n\n","msg_date":"Sun, 18 Jan 1998 13:36:30 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Jan Vicherek <honza@ied.com>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] non-SQL C interface ? (fwd)"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\n\\n Hi,\\n\\n I got no answer from pgsql-questions list.\\n\\n basically I'm using only one table at a time, and I need only a few\\nsimple operations on tuples (find, add, updates, delete).\\n\\n -- after a quick look at all `cd src; find . -name '*.h'` I didn't\\nfind any such similar interface.\\n\\n Can sombody advise me how could I get this simple interface ?\\n\\n I'm fluent in C/C++.\\n\\n Thanx,\\n\\n Jan\\n\\n\\n -- Gospel of Jesus is the saving power of God for all who believe --\\nJan Vicherek ## To some, nothing is impossible. ## www.ied.com/~honza\\n >>> Free Software Union President ... www.fslu.org <<<\\nInteractive Electronic Design Inc. -#- PGP: finger honza@ied.com\\n\\n---------- Forwarded message ----------\\nDate: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:03:05 -0500 (EST)\\nFrom: Jan Vicherek <honza@ied.com>\\nTo: pgsql-questions@postgresql.org\\nSubject: non-SQL C interface ?\\n\\n\\n If I would like to access the database through a C interface using a few\\nsimple database operations, like \\nopen db\\nselect fields to work with\\nselect index to use\\nselect a record\\nupdate a record\\nadd a record\\ndelete a record\\nlock a table against updates, unlock\\n\\n and that's it. (Taken from Informinx 3.3, \\\"ALL-II\\\" C interface.)\\n\\n We are looking into porting an app written for this Informix interface\\ninto Postgres, and I would wrinte a library simulating these calls.\\n\\n Is there a set of calls seomwhere inside of PGSQL that I could use in my\\nsimulation library to utilize ?\\n\\n THanx, \\n\\n Jan\\n\\n\\n -- Gospel of Jesus is the saving power of God for all who believe --\\nJan Vicherek ## To some, nothing is impossible. ## www.ied.com/~honza\\n >>> Free Software Union President ... www.fslu.org <<<\\nInteractive Electronic Design Inc. -#- PGP: finger honza@ied.com\\n\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sun, 18 Jan 1998 01:21:32 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Jan Vicherek <honza@ied.com>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"non-SQL C interface ? (fwd)\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"On Sun, 18 Jan 1998, Jan Vicherek wrote:\\n> Hi,\\n> \\n> I got no answer from pgsql-questions list.\\n\\nI saw this there, but was knee deep in code at the time\\n\\n> basically I'm using only one table at a time, and I need only a few\\n> simple operations on tuples (find, add, updates, delete).\\n> \\n> -- after a quick look at all `cd src; find . -name '*.h'` I didn't\\n> find any such similar interface.\\n> \\n> Can sombody advise me how could I get this simple interface ?\\n> \\n> I'm fluent in C/C++.\\n\\nI think the simplest way of doing this is to write your own stubs, that\\nthen sit on top of libpq. This is the way I've done this in the past.\\n\\n[snip]\\n\\n> and that's it. (Taken from Informinx 3.3, \\\"ALL-II\\\" C interface.)\\n> \\n> We are looking into porting an app written for this Informix interface\\n> into Postgres, and I would wrinte a library simulating these calls.\\n> \\n> Is there a set of calls seomwhere inside of PGSQL that I could use in my\\n> simulation library to utilize ?\\n\\nAs your trying to simulate another api, and it looked like it's fairly\\nsimple, then it should be simple to do this, leaving libpq to do the\\nactual network stuff to the database.\\n\\n-- \\nPeter T Mount petermount@earthling.net or pmount@maidast.demon.co.uk\\nMain Homepage: http://www.demon.co.uk/finder\\nWork Homepage: http://www.maidstone.gov.uk Work EMail: peter@maidstone.gov.uk\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sun, 18 Jan 1998 11:34:54 +0000 (GMT)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Peter T Mount <psqlhack@maidast.demon.co.uk>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] non-SQL C interface ? (fwd)\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"On Sun, 18 Jan 1998, Peter T Mount wrote:\\n\\n> > basically I'm using only one table at a time, and I need only a few\\n> > simple operations on tuples (find, add, updates, delete).\\n> > \\n> > Can sombody advise me how could I get this simple interface ?\\n> \\n> I think the simplest way of doing this is to write your own stubs, that\\n> then sit on top of libpq. This is the way I've done this in the past.\\n\\n It seems like a bit of overkill, since this would still have to go\\nthrough the SQL parser,optimizer,executor,etc. If I want to access the\\ntables only one at a time, and only load the rows into a simple C\\nstructure, it seems like there has to be this interface, since the SQL\\nexecutor has to get to the data somehow too. And I thought it would be\\nthrough this C interface that I'm looking for.\\n\\n here goes the list of simple few calls I need :\\nopen db\\nselect fields to work with\\nselect index to use\\nselect a record\\nupdate a record\\nadd a record\\ndelete a record\\nlock a table against updates, unlock\\n\\n> > and that's it. (Taken from Informinx 3.3, \\\"ALL-II\\\" C interface.)\\n> > \\n> > We are looking into porting an app written for this Informix interface\\n> > into Postgres, and I would wrinte a library simulating these calls.\\n> > \\n> > Is there a set of calls seomwhere inside of PGSQL that I could use in my\\n> > simulation library to utilize ?\\n> \\n> As your trying to simulate another api, and it looked like it's fairly\\n> simple, then it should be simple to do this, leaving libpq to do the\\n> actual network stuff to the database.\\n\\n but libpq and do *only* SQL calls only, right ? Or can libpq do some of\\nthese lower-level stuff too? that would be excellent !\\n\\n Thanx, \\n\\n Jan\\n\\n -- Gospel of Jesus is the saving power of God for all who believe --\\nJan Vicherek ## To some, nothing is impossible. ## www.ied.com/~honza\\n >>> Free Software Union President ... www.fslu.org <<<\\nInteractive Electronic Design Inc. -#- PGP: finger honza@ied.com\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sun, 18 Jan 1998 13:36:30 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Jan Vicherek <honza@ied.com>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] non-SQL C interface ? (fwd)\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":164,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"> Well, I can create the table quite easily. The issue is what type of\n> flack we will get by haveing pg_user non-readable, and removing the user\n\nWhat if we were to put the pg_user accessibility to the admin setting up\nPostgreSQL (at least until pg_privileges could become a reality.). If you\nlook in dbinit--toward the end of the script--I run a SQL command to revoke\nall privileges from public on the pg_user table. If you are not going to\nuse the pg_pwd scheme for authentication, then you don't need to run this\ncommand. All we need do for now is print out a little message saying that if\nyou use HBA or Kerberos, then say No to blocking the PUBLIC from accessing\npg_user. We also say that if you choose to block access to pg_user, these\nare the consequences. When a better privileges method is developed this\nquestion in the dbinit script can be eliminated.\n\nI myself would choose to block access to the pg_user relation. Others may not\nwant it this way. Using the above scenario, the user would have an informed\nchoice that would be taken care of at initialization.\n\nTodd A. Brandys\nbrandys@eng3.hep.uiuc.edu\n","msg_date":"Sun, 18 Jan 1998 15:29:50 -0600","msg_from":"todd brandys <brandys@eng3.hep.uiuc.edu>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Re: New pg_pwd patch and stuff"},{"msg_contents":"> \n> > Well, I can create the table quite easily. The issue is what type of\n> > flack we will get by haveing pg_user non-readable, and removing the user\n> \n> What if we were to put the pg_user accessibility to the admin setting up\n> PostgreSQL (at least until pg_privileges could become a reality.). If you\n> look in dbinit--toward the end of the script--I run a SQL command to revoke\n> all privileges from public on the pg_user table. If you are not going to\n> use the pg_pwd scheme for authentication, then you don't need to run this\n> command. All we need do for now is print out a little message saying that if\n> you use HBA or Kerberos, then say No to blocking the PUBLIC from accessing\n> pg_user. We also say that if you choose to block access to pg_user, these\n> are the consequences. When a better privileges method is developed this\n> question in the dbinit script can be eliminated.\n> \n> I myself would choose to block access to the pg_user relation. Others may not\n> want it this way. Using the above scenario, the user would have an informed\n> choice that would be taken care of at initialization.\n\nThis is exactly what I was thinking yesterday.\n\nI recommend something different. What if we just skip your REVOKE\ncommand in initdb, but we add a check in user.c, and if they try to set\na non-NULL password and they have pg_user as world-readable, we prevent\nthem from doing it, and tell them explicitly the REVOKE command the\ndatabase administrator must issue to allow passwords to be set.\n\nThe advantage of this is that they can use the other database USER commands,\njust not the password commands, and they can easily change their mind. \nIt puts the checking for world-readble pg_user at the proper place. I\nam afraid if we didn't someone would answer y to world-readable pg_user,\nthen start assigning passwords.\n\nWe can also change psql.c to do a \\d lookup with pg_user, and if it\nfails, we do another SELECT without pg_user showing just user-ids. That\nway, the administrator will get usernames, but non-priv users will not.\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Sun, 18 Jan 1998 21:21:02 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Re: New pg_pwd patch and stuff"},{"msg_contents":"\n\nOn Sun, 18 Jan 1998, Bruce Momjian wrote:\n\n> > \n> > > Well, I can create the table quite easily. The issue is what type of\n> > > flack we will get by haveing pg_user non-readable, and removing the user\n> > \n> > What if we were to put the pg_user accessibility to the admin setting up\n> > PostgreSQL (at least until pg_privileges could become a reality.). If you\n> > look in dbinit--toward the end of the script--I run a SQL command to revoke\n> > all privileges from public on the pg_user table. If you are not going to\n> > use the pg_pwd scheme for authentication, then you don't need to run this\n> > command. All we need do for now is print out a little message saying that if\n> > you use HBA or Kerberos, then say No to blocking the PUBLIC from accessing\n> > pg_user. We also say that if you choose to block access to pg_user, these\n> > are the consequences. When a better privileges method is developed this\n> > question in the dbinit script can be eliminated.\n> > \n> > I myself would choose to block access to the pg_user relation. Others may not\n> > want it this way. Using the above scenario, the user would have an informed\n> > choice that would be taken care of at initialization.\n> \n> This is exactly what I was thinking yesterday.\n> \n> I recommend something different. What if we just skip your REVOKE\n> command in initdb, but we add a check in user.c, and if they try to set\n> a non-NULL password and they have pg_user as world-readable, we prevent\n> them from doing it, and tell them explicitly the REVOKE command the\n> database administrator must issue to allow passwords to be set.\n> \n> The advantage of this is that they can use the other database USER commands,\n> just not the password commands, and they can easily change their mind. \n> It puts the checking for world-readble pg_user at the proper place. I\n> am afraid if we didn't someone would answer y to world-readable pg_user,\n> then start assigning passwords.\n> \n> We can also change psql.c to do a \\d lookup with pg_user, and if it\n> fails, we do another SELECT without pg_user showing just user-ids. That\n> way, the administrator will get usernames, but non-priv users will not.\n> \n> -- \n> Bruce Momjian\n> maillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n> \n\nI agree that we should do the check for the 'World-readable' \npg_user and give a warning if someone attempts to assign a password.\nI still think the admin should be given an option in the dbinit script to \nchoose whether or no to run the 'REVOKE'. At this point it would be easy \nto inform the admin what the trade-offs are, and we will have his/her \nundivided attention (They will be more apt to read about it to get past the\nprompt.).\n\nThese changes should not take long to make. I need to get the current \nCVS version (I will do so tonight), and I should have the changes \n(performed and tested) in a day or so.\n\nTodd A. Brandys\nbrandys@eng3.hep.uiuc.edu\n","msg_date":"Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:58:12 -0600 (CST)","msg_from":"todd brandys <brandys@eng3.hep.uiuc.edu>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Re: New pg_pwd patch and stuff"},{"msg_contents":"> I agree that we should do the check for the 'World-readable' \n> pg_user and give a warning if someone attempts to assign a password.\n> I still think the admin should be given an option in the dbinit script to \n> choose whether or no to run the 'REVOKE'. At this point it would be easy \n> to inform the admin what the trade-offs are, and we will have his/her \n> undivided attention (They will be more apt to read about it to get past the\n> prompt.).\n> \n> These changes should not take long to make. I need to get the current \n> CVS version (I will do so tonight), and I should have the changes \n> (performed and tested) in a day or so.\n\nSure, why not ask the admin. Saves him a step when he tries to do the\nfirst password. I just think we should also check when doing a password\nchange, which makes sense.\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Tue, 20 Jan 1998 14:53:38 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Re: New pg_pwd patch and stuff"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> Well, I can create the table quite easily. The issue is what type of\\n> flack we will get by haveing pg_user non-readable, and removing the user\\n\\nWhat if we were to put the pg_user accessibility to the admin setting up\\nPostgreSQL (at least until pg_privileges could become a reality.). If you\\nlook in dbinit--toward the end of the script--I run a SQL command to revoke\\nall privileges from public on the pg_user table. If you are not going to\\nuse the pg_pwd scheme for authentication, then you don't need to run this\\ncommand. All we need do for now is print out a little message saying that if\\nyou use HBA or Kerberos, then say No to blocking the PUBLIC from accessing\\npg_user. We also say that if you choose to block access to pg_user, these\\nare the consequences. When a better privileges method is developed this\\nquestion in the dbinit script can be eliminated.\\n\\nI myself would choose to block access to the pg_user relation. Others may not\\nwant it this way. Using the above scenario, the user would have an informed\\nchoice that would be taken care of at initialization.\\n\\nTodd A. Brandys\\nbrandys@eng3.hep.uiuc.edu\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sun, 18 Jan 1998 15:29:50 -0600\",\n \"msg_from\": \"todd brandys <brandys@eng3.hep.uiuc.edu>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Re: New pg_pwd patch and stuff\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> \\n> > Well, I can create the table quite easily. The issue is what type of\\n> > flack we will get by haveing pg_user non-readable, and removing the user\\n> \\n> What if we were to put the pg_user accessibility to the admin setting up\\n> PostgreSQL (at least until pg_privileges could become a reality.). If you\\n> look in dbinit--toward the end of the script--I run a SQL command to revoke\\n> all privileges from public on the pg_user table. If you are not going to\\n> use the pg_pwd scheme for authentication, then you don't need to run this\\n> command. All we need do for now is print out a little message saying that if\\n> you use HBA or Kerberos, then say No to blocking the PUBLIC from accessing\\n> pg_user. We also say that if you choose to block access to pg_user, these\\n> are the consequences. When a better privileges method is developed this\\n> question in the dbinit script can be eliminated.\\n> \\n> I myself would choose to block access to the pg_user relation. Others may not\\n> want it this way. Using the above scenario, the user would have an informed\\n> choice that would be taken care of at initialization.\\n\\nThis is exactly what I was thinking yesterday.\\n\\nI recommend something different. What if we just skip your REVOKE\\ncommand in initdb, but we add a check in user.c, and if they try to set\\na non-NULL password and they have pg_user as world-readable, we prevent\\nthem from doing it, and tell them explicitly the REVOKE command the\\ndatabase administrator must issue to allow passwords to be set.\\n\\nThe advantage of this is that they can use the other database USER commands,\\njust not the password commands, and they can easily change their mind. \\nIt puts the checking for world-readble pg_user at the proper place. I\\nam afraid if we didn't someone would answer y to world-readable pg_user,\\nthen start assigning passwords.\\n\\nWe can also change psql.c to do a \\\\d lookup with pg_user, and if it\\nfails, we do another SELECT without pg_user showing just user-ids. That\\nway, the administrator will get usernames, but non-priv users will not.\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sun, 18 Jan 1998 21:21:02 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Re: New pg_pwd patch and stuff\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\n\\nOn Sun, 18 Jan 1998, Bruce Momjian wrote:\\n\\n> > \\n> > > Well, I can create the table quite easily. The issue is what type of\\n> > > flack we will get by haveing pg_user non-readable, and removing the user\\n> > \\n> > What if we were to put the pg_user accessibility to the admin setting up\\n> > PostgreSQL (at least until pg_privileges could become a reality.). If you\\n> > look in dbinit--toward the end of the script--I run a SQL command to revoke\\n> > all privileges from public on the pg_user table. If you are not going to\\n> > use the pg_pwd scheme for authentication, then you don't need to run this\\n> > command. All we need do for now is print out a little message saying that if\\n> > you use HBA or Kerberos, then say No to blocking the PUBLIC from accessing\\n> > pg_user. We also say that if you choose to block access to pg_user, these\\n> > are the consequences. When a better privileges method is developed this\\n> > question in the dbinit script can be eliminated.\\n> > \\n> > I myself would choose to block access to the pg_user relation. Others may not\\n> > want it this way. Using the above scenario, the user would have an informed\\n> > choice that would be taken care of at initialization.\\n> \\n> This is exactly what I was thinking yesterday.\\n> \\n> I recommend something different. What if we just skip your REVOKE\\n> command in initdb, but we add a check in user.c, and if they try to set\\n> a non-NULL password and they have pg_user as world-readable, we prevent\\n> them from doing it, and tell them explicitly the REVOKE command the\\n> database administrator must issue to allow passwords to be set.\\n> \\n> The advantage of this is that they can use the other database USER commands,\\n> just not the password commands, and they can easily change their mind. \\n> It puts the checking for world-readble pg_user at the proper place. I\\n> am afraid if we didn't someone would answer y to world-readable pg_user,\\n> then start assigning passwords.\\n> \\n> We can also change psql.c to do a \\\\d lookup with pg_user, and if it\\n> fails, we do another SELECT without pg_user showing just user-ids. That\\n> way, the administrator will get usernames, but non-priv users will not.\\n> \\n> -- \\n> Bruce Momjian\\n> maillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n> \\n\\nI agree that we should do the check for the 'World-readable' \\npg_user and give a warning if someone attempts to assign a password.\\nI still think the admin should be given an option in the dbinit script to \\nchoose whether or no to run the 'REVOKE'. At this point it would be easy \\nto inform the admin what the trade-offs are, and we will have his/her \\nundivided attention (They will be more apt to read about it to get past the\\nprompt.).\\n\\nThese changes should not take long to make. I need to get the current \\nCVS version (I will do so tonight), and I should have the changes \\n(performed and tested) in a day or so.\\n\\nTodd A. Brandys\\nbrandys@eng3.hep.uiuc.edu\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:58:12 -0600 (CST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"todd brandys <brandys@eng3.hep.uiuc.edu>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Re: New pg_pwd patch and stuff\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> I agree that we should do the check for the 'World-readable' \\n> pg_user and give a warning if someone attempts to assign a password.\\n> I still think the admin should be given an option in the dbinit script to \\n> choose whether or no to run the 'REVOKE'. At this point it would be easy \\n> to inform the admin what the trade-offs are, and we will have his/her \\n> undivided attention (They will be more apt to read about it to get past the\\n> prompt.).\\n> \\n> These changes should not take long to make. I need to get the current \\n> CVS version (I will do so tonight), and I should have the changes \\n> (performed and tested) in a day or so.\\n\\nSure, why not ask the admin. Saves him a step when he tries to do the\\nfirst password. I just think we should also check when doing a password\\nchange, which makes sense.\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 20 Jan 1998 14:53:38 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Re: New pg_pwd patch and stuff\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":165,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"> \n> Bruce,\n> \n> The new varchar() stuff looks good, just a minor problem with \"select into\"\n> where the new table does not seem to get a copy of the atttypmod value\n> from the source table.\n> \n> I had a quick look at the code but guess you'll find the problem 10 times\n> faster than I could.\n\nOK, I have fixed this. The real way to fix this it to add restypmod to\nResdom, and pass the value all the way through the engine, so tupDesc\nalways has the proper atttypmod value, but it is not clear how to do\nthis in the parser, so I put the code back in to just do a lookup in\nexecMain/execUtils when doing an SELECT * INTO TABLE.\n\nIf we start using atttypmod more, we will have to do this.\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Sun, 18 Jan 1998 21:39:06 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: varchar() troubles"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> \\n> Bruce,\\n> \\n> The new varchar() stuff looks good, just a minor problem with \\\"select into\\\"\\n> where the new table does not seem to get a copy of the atttypmod value\\n> from the source table.\\n> \\n> I had a quick look at the code but guess you'll find the problem 10 times\\n> faster than I could.\\n\\nOK, I have fixed this. The real way to fix this it to add restypmod to\\nResdom, and pass the value all the way through the engine, so tupDesc\\nalways has the proper atttypmod value, but it is not clear how to do\\nthis in the parser, so I put the code back in to just do a lookup in\\nexecMain/execUtils when doing an SELECT * INTO TABLE.\\n\\nIf we start using atttypmod more, we will have to do this.\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sun, 18 Jan 1998 21:39:06 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: varchar() troubles\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":166,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"Felix Morley Finch wrote:\n> \n> >>In article <34C1BD06.1712ABAC@sable.krasnoyarsk.su>, \"Vadim B. Mikheev\" <vadim@sable.krasnoyarsk.su> writes:\n> \n> > Felix Morley Finch wrote:\n> >>\n> >> I tried searching and ran into several new lessons in SQL; I ended up\n> >> with this --\n> >>\n> >> select name from names n, keys k1, keys k2, family f1, family f2\n> >> where ((k1.key ~* 'xyzzy') and (k1.id = f1.key) and (n.id = f1.name))\n> >> or ((k2.key ~* 'plugh) and (k2.id = f2.key) and (n.id = f2.name));\n> >>\n> >> and psql never returned. This is a test database, maybe 20 records.\n> >> If I keep it down to a single keyword, it works fine.\n> \n> > EXPLAIN ?\n> > Did you try SET geqo TO 'on=1' ?\n> \n> I just tried it --\n> \n> WARN:Bad value for # of relations (1)\n> \n> I tried ON=2 which gave no WARNING but didn't fix the join. I tried\n> OFF and same result.\n\n(So, this is problem of not just old optimizer...)\n\nCould you post me output of\n\nEXPLAIN VERBOSE _select_statement_ ?\n\nVadim\n","msg_date":"Mon, 19 Jan 1998 11:06:09 +0700","msg_from":"\"Vadim B. Mikheev\" <vadim@sable.krasnoyarsk.su>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: [QUESTIONS] Join-crazy newbie may be pushing the limits :-)"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Felix Morley Finch wrote:\\n> \\n> >>In article <34C1BD06.1712ABAC@sable.krasnoyarsk.su>, \\\"Vadim B. Mikheev\\\" <vadim@sable.krasnoyarsk.su> writes:\\n> \\n> > Felix Morley Finch wrote:\\n> >>\\n> >> I tried searching and ran into several new lessons in SQL; I ended up\\n> >> with this --\\n> >>\\n> >> select name from names n, keys k1, keys k2, family f1, family f2\\n> >> where ((k1.key ~* 'xyzzy') and (k1.id = f1.key) and (n.id = f1.name))\\n> >> or ((k2.key ~* 'plugh) and (k2.id = f2.key) and (n.id = f2.name));\\n> >>\\n> >> and psql never returned. This is a test database, maybe 20 records.\\n> >> If I keep it down to a single keyword, it works fine.\\n> \\n> > EXPLAIN ?\\n> > Did you try SET geqo TO 'on=1' ?\\n> \\n> I just tried it --\\n> \\n> WARN:Bad value for # of relations (1)\\n> \\n> I tried ON=2 which gave no WARNING but didn't fix the join. I tried\\n> OFF and same result.\\n\\n(So, this is problem of not just old optimizer...)\\n\\nCould you post me output of\\n\\nEXPLAIN VERBOSE _select_statement_ ?\\n\\nVadim\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 19 Jan 1998 11:06:09 +0700\",\n \"msg_from\": \"\\\"Vadim B. Mikheev\\\" <vadim@sable.krasnoyarsk.su>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [QUESTIONS] Join-crazy newbie may be pushing the limits :-)\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":167,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"\nOK, I have added code to allow the SubLinks make it to the optimizer.\n\nI implemented ParseState->parentParseState, but not parentQuery, because\nthe parentParseState is much more valuable to me, and Vadim thought it\nmight be useful, but was not positive. Also, keeping that parentQuery\npointer valid through rewrite may be difficult, so I dropped it. \nParseState is only valid in the parser.\n\nI have not done:\n\n\tcorrelated subquery column references\n\tadded Var->sublevels_up\n\tgotten this to work in the rewrite system\n\thave not added full CopyNode support\n\nI will address these in the next few days.\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Mon, 19 Jan 1998 00:54:49 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"subselects"},{"msg_contents":"Bruce Momjian wrote:\n> \n> OK, I have added code to allow the SubLinks make it to the optimizer.\n> \n> I implemented ParseState->parentParseState, but not parentQuery, because\n> the parentParseState is much more valuable to me, and Vadim thought it\n> might be useful, but was not positive. Also, keeping that parentQuery\n> pointer valid through rewrite may be difficult, so I dropped it.\n> ParseState is only valid in the parser.\n> \n> I have not done:\n> \n> correlated subquery column references\n> added Var->sublevels_up\n> gotten this to work in the rewrite system\n> have not added full CopyNode support\n> \n> I will address these in the next few days.\n\nNice! I'm starting with non-correlated subqueries...\n\nVadim\n","msg_date":"Mon, 19 Jan 1998 13:37:41 +0700","msg_from":"\"Vadim B. Mikheev\" <vadim@sable.krasnoyarsk.su>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: subselects"},{"msg_contents":"> > I have not done:\n> > \n> > correlated subquery column references\n> > added Var->sublevels_up\n> > gotten this to work in the rewrite system\n> > have not added full CopyNode support\n> > \n> > I will address these in the next few days.\n> \n\nOK, had some bugs, but now it works. Ran postmaster with full debug,\nand saw proper values in SubLink structure. In fact, the optimizer\nseems to pass this through fine, only to error out in the executor with\n'unknown node.'\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Mon, 19 Jan 1998 13:00:38 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Re: subselects"},{"msg_contents":"> > I have not done:\n> > \n> > correlated subquery column references\n> > added Var->sublevels_up\n> > gotten this to work in the rewrite system\n\nThis item is done now:\n> > have not added full CopyNode support\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Mon, 19 Jan 1998 13:09:10 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Re: subselects"},{"msg_contents":"> > I have not done:\n> > \n> > correlated subquery column references\n> > added Var->sublevels_up\n> > gotten this to work in the rewrite system\n> > have not added full CopyNode support\n> > \n\nOK, these are all done now.\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Tue, 20 Jan 1998 23:22:42 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Re: subselects"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\nOK, I have added code to allow the SubLinks make it to the optimizer.\\n\\nI implemented ParseState->parentParseState, but not parentQuery, because\\nthe parentParseState is much more valuable to me, and Vadim thought it\\nmight be useful, but was not positive. Also, keeping that parentQuery\\npointer valid through rewrite may be difficult, so I dropped it. \\nParseState is only valid in the parser.\\n\\nI have not done:\\n\\n\\tcorrelated subquery column references\\n\\tadded Var->sublevels_up\\n\\tgotten this to work in the rewrite system\\n\\thave not added full CopyNode support\\n\\nI will address these in the next few days.\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 19 Jan 1998 00:54:49 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"subselects\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Bruce Momjian wrote:\\n> \\n> OK, I have added code to allow the SubLinks make it to the optimizer.\\n> \\n> I implemented ParseState->parentParseState, but not parentQuery, because\\n> the parentParseState is much more valuable to me, and Vadim thought it\\n> might be useful, but was not positive. Also, keeping that parentQuery\\n> pointer valid through rewrite may be difficult, so I dropped it.\\n> ParseState is only valid in the parser.\\n> \\n> I have not done:\\n> \\n> correlated subquery column references\\n> added Var->sublevels_up\\n> gotten this to work in the rewrite system\\n> have not added full CopyNode support\\n> \\n> I will address these in the next few days.\\n\\nNice! I'm starting with non-correlated subqueries...\\n\\nVadim\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 19 Jan 1998 13:37:41 +0700\",\n \"msg_from\": \"\\\"Vadim B. Mikheev\\\" <vadim@sable.krasnoyarsk.su>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: subselects\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> > I have not done:\\n> > \\n> > correlated subquery column references\\n> > added Var->sublevels_up\\n> > gotten this to work in the rewrite system\\n> > have not added full CopyNode support\\n> > \\n> > I will address these in the next few days.\\n> \\n\\nOK, had some bugs, but now it works. Ran postmaster with full debug,\\nand saw proper values in SubLink structure. In fact, the optimizer\\nseems to pass this through fine, only to error out in the executor with\\n'unknown node.'\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 19 Jan 1998 13:00:38 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Re: subselects\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> > I have not done:\\n> > \\n> > correlated subquery column references\\n> > added Var->sublevels_up\\n> > gotten this to work in the rewrite system\\n\\nThis item is done now:\\n> > have not added full CopyNode support\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 19 Jan 1998 13:09:10 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Re: subselects\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> > I have not done:\\n> > \\n> > correlated subquery column references\\n> > added Var->sublevels_up\\n> > gotten this to work in the rewrite system\\n> > have not added full CopyNode support\\n> > \\n\\nOK, these are all done now.\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 20 Jan 1998 23:22:42 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Re: subselects\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":168,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"\nIt hangs at the following error, CVSup'd and built as of this morning:\n\nScript started on Mon 19 Jan 1998 10:16:17 AM AST\n%./initdb --pglb\b\u001b[Kib=/loc/pgsql/lib --pgdata=/loc/pgsql/data\ninitdb: using /loc/pgsql/lib/local1_template1.bki.source as input to create the template database.\ninitdb: using /loc/pgsql/lib/global1.bki.source as input to create the global classes.\ninitdb: using /loc/pgsql/lib/pg_hba.conf.sample as the host-based authentication control file.\n\nWe are initializing the database system with username marc (uid=100).\nThis user will own all the files and must also own the server process.\n\nCreating Postgres database system directory /loc/pgsql/data\n\nCreating Postgres database system directory /loc/pgsql/data/base\n\ninitdb: creating template database in /loc/pgsql/data/base/template1\nRunning: postgres -boot -C -F -D/loc/pgsql/data -Q template1\nERROR: heap_modifytuple: repl is \\-62\nERROR: heap_modifytuple: repl is \\-62\n^C%\nscript done on Mon 19 Jan 1998 10:17:38 AM AST\n\n\n","msg_date":"Mon, 19 Jan 1998 09:15:52 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Newest Source ..."},{"msg_contents":"> \n> \n> It hangs at the following error, CVSup'd and built as of this morning:\n> \n> Script started on Mon 19 Jan 1998 10:16:17 AM AST\n> %./initdb --pglb\b\u001b[Kib=/loc/pgsql/lib --pgdata=/loc/pgsql/data\n> initdb: using /loc/pgsql/lib/local1_template1.bki.source as input to create the template database.\n> initdb: using /loc/pgsql/lib/global1.bki.source as input to create the global classes.\n\nI cvsup'ed last night, and initdb was working fine.\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Mon, 19 Jan 1998 12:06:03 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Newest Source ..."}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\nIt hangs at the following error, CVSup'd and built as of this morning:\\n\\nScript started on Mon 19 Jan 1998 10:16:17 AM AST\\n%./initdb --pglb\\b\\u001b[Kib=/loc/pgsql/lib --pgdata=/loc/pgsql/data\\ninitdb: using /loc/pgsql/lib/local1_template1.bki.source as input to create the template database.\\ninitdb: using /loc/pgsql/lib/global1.bki.source as input to create the global classes.\\ninitdb: using /loc/pgsql/lib/pg_hba.conf.sample as the host-based authentication control file.\\n\\nWe are initializing the database system with username marc (uid=100).\\nThis user will own all the files and must also own the server process.\\n\\nCreating Postgres database system directory /loc/pgsql/data\\n\\nCreating Postgres database system directory /loc/pgsql/data/base\\n\\ninitdb: creating template database in /loc/pgsql/data/base/template1\\nRunning: postgres -boot -C -F -D/loc/pgsql/data -Q template1\\nERROR: heap_modifytuple: repl is \\\\-62\\nERROR: heap_modifytuple: repl is \\\\-62\\n^C%\\nscript done on Mon 19 Jan 1998 10:17:38 AM AST\\n\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 19 Jan 1998 09:15:52 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Newest Source ...\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> \\n> \\n> It hangs at the following error, CVSup'd and built as of this morning:\\n> \\n> Script started on Mon 19 Jan 1998 10:16:17 AM AST\\n> %./initdb --pglb\\b\\u001b[Kib=/loc/pgsql/lib --pgdata=/loc/pgsql/data\\n> initdb: using /loc/pgsql/lib/local1_template1.bki.source as input to create the template database.\\n> initdb: using /loc/pgsql/lib/global1.bki.source as input to create the global classes.\\n\\nI cvsup'ed last night, and initdb was working fine.\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 19 Jan 1998 12:06:03 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Newest Source ...\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":169,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"HI\n\nI found some bug:\nWhen I select from table (select A,B,count(*) INTO table tmp1 FROM AAA\ngroup by A,B; ) in \nbig table some touples are duplicated ;(,\n\n A,\tB,\tcount(*)\n321\t1\t3\t\\\t?\n321\t1\t2\t/ \t?\n321\t2\t5\n...........\n\nPS: I use linux 2.0.33 and solaris 2.5.1 and postgres 6.2.1v7\n\n-- \nSY, Serj\n","msg_date":"Mon, 19 Jan 1998 17:42:35 +0300","msg_from":"Serj <fenix@am.ring.ru>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"postgres 6.2.1 Group BY BUG"},{"msg_contents":"Can you try this in the current 6.3 beta and tell us if it is fixed?\n\n\n> HI\n> \n> I found some bug:\n> When I select from table (select A,B,count(*) INTO table tmp1 FROM AAA\n> group by A,B; ) in \n> big table some touples are duplicated ;(,\n> \n> A,\tB,\tcount(*)\n> 321\t1\t3\t\\\t?\n> 321\t1\t2\t/ \t?\n> 321\t2\t5\n> ...........\n> \n> PS: I use linux 2.0.33 and solaris 2.5.1 and postgres 6.2.1v7\n> \n> -- \n> SY, Serj\n> \n> \n\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Fri, 13 Feb 1998 15:14:42 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [QUESTIONS] postgres 6.2.1 Group BY BUG"},{"msg_contents":"Bruce Momjian wrote:\n> \n> Can you try this in the current 6.3 beta and tell us if it is fixed?\n> \n> > HI\n> >\n> > I found some bug:\n> > When I select from table (select A,B,count(*) INTO table tmp1 FROM AAA\n> > group by A,B; ) in\n> > big table some touples are duplicated ;(,\n> >\n> > A, B, count(*)\n> > 321 1 3 \\ ?\n> > 321 1 2 / ?\n> > 321 2 5\n\nI didn't fix GROUP BY yet.\n\nVadim\n","msg_date":"Sun, 15 Feb 1998 16:44:00 +0700","msg_from":"\"Vadim B. Mikheev\" <vadim@sable.krasnoyarsk.su>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Re: [QUESTIONS] postgres 6.2.1 Group BY BUG"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"HI\\n\\nI found some bug:\\nWhen I select from table (select A,B,count(*) INTO table tmp1 FROM AAA\\ngroup by A,B; ) in \\nbig table some touples are duplicated ;(,\\n\\n A,\\tB,\\tcount(*)\\n321\\t1\\t3\\t\\\\\\t?\\n321\\t1\\t2\\t/ \\t?\\n321\\t2\\t5\\n...........\\n\\nPS: I use linux 2.0.33 and solaris 2.5.1 and postgres 6.2.1v7\\n\\n-- \\nSY, Serj\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 19 Jan 1998 17:42:35 +0300\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Serj <fenix@am.ring.ru>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"postgres 6.2.1 Group BY BUG\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Can you try this in the current 6.3 beta and tell us if it is fixed?\\n\\n\\n> HI\\n> \\n> I found some bug:\\n> When I select from table (select A,B,count(*) INTO table tmp1 FROM AAA\\n> group by A,B; ) in \\n> big table some touples are duplicated ;(,\\n> \\n> A,\\tB,\\tcount(*)\\n> 321\\t1\\t3\\t\\\\\\t?\\n> 321\\t1\\t2\\t/ \\t?\\n> 321\\t2\\t5\\n> ...........\\n> \\n> PS: I use linux 2.0.33 and solaris 2.5.1 and postgres 6.2.1v7\\n> \\n> -- \\n> SY, Serj\\n> \\n> \\n\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Fri, 13 Feb 1998 15:14:42 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [QUESTIONS] postgres 6.2.1 Group BY BUG\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Bruce Momjian wrote:\\n> \\n> Can you try this in the current 6.3 beta and tell us if it is fixed?\\n> \\n> > HI\\n> >\\n> > I found some bug:\\n> > When I select from table (select A,B,count(*) INTO table tmp1 FROM AAA\\n> > group by A,B; ) in\\n> > big table some touples are duplicated ;(,\\n> >\\n> > A, B, count(*)\\n> > 321 1 3 \\\\ ?\\n> > 321 1 2 / ?\\n> > 321 2 5\\n\\nI didn't fix GROUP BY yet.\\n\\nVadim\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sun, 15 Feb 1998 16:44:00 +0700\",\n \"msg_from\": \"\\\"Vadim B. Mikheev\\\" <vadim@sable.krasnoyarsk.su>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Re: [QUESTIONS] postgres 6.2.1 Group BY BUG\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":170,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"I removed the 'lock' in the source tree. I think Lock is a valid 386\nopcode, but gcc under Freebsd and BSDI does not support it.\n\nCan you put some ifdef in there so Unixware uses it, but non-unixware\ndoes not?\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Mon, 19 Jan 1998 13:12:29 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"unixware"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"I removed the 'lock' in the source tree. I think Lock is a valid 386\\nopcode, but gcc under Freebsd and BSDI does not support it.\\n\\nCan you put some ifdef in there so Unixware uses it, but non-unixware\\ndoes not?\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 19 Jan 1998 13:12:29 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"unixware\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":171,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"Thanks Bruce,\n\nIt was obviously not quite as simple a problem as I had 1st imagined.\n\nI did have a root around in the code but could not work out how the\nattributes were copied to the newly created table.\n\nThanks for the fix,\nKeith.\n\nBruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\n> emkxp01@mtcc.demon.co.uk\n> > Bruce,\n> > \n> > The new varchar() stuff looks good, just a minor problem with \"select into\"\n> > where the new table does not seem to get a copy of the atttypmod value\n> > from the source table.\n> > \n> > I had a quick look at the code but guess you'll find the problem 10 times\n> > faster than I could.\n> \n> OK, I have fixed this. The real way to fix this it to add restypmod to\n> Resdom, and pass the value all the way through the engine, so tupDesc\n> always has the proper atttypmod value, but it is not clear how to do\n> this in the parser, so I put the code back in to just do a lookup in\n> execMain/execUtils when doing an SELECT * INTO TABLE.\n> \n> If we start using atttypmod more, we will have to do this.\n> \n\n\n","msg_date":"Mon, 19 Jan 1998 18:52:52 +0000 (GMT)","msg_from":"Keith Parks <emkxp01@mtcc.demon.co.uk>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Re: varchar() troubles"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Thanks Bruce,\\n\\nIt was obviously not quite as simple a problem as I had 1st imagined.\\n\\nI did have a root around in the code but could not work out how the\\nattributes were copied to the newly created table.\\n\\nThanks for the fix,\\nKeith.\\n\\nBruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\\n> emkxp01@mtcc.demon.co.uk\\n> > Bruce,\\n> > \\n> > The new varchar() stuff looks good, just a minor problem with \\\"select into\\\"\\n> > where the new table does not seem to get a copy of the atttypmod value\\n> > from the source table.\\n> > \\n> > I had a quick look at the code but guess you'll find the problem 10 times\\n> > faster than I could.\\n> \\n> OK, I have fixed this. The real way to fix this it to add restypmod to\\n> Resdom, and pass the value all the way through the engine, so tupDesc\\n> always has the proper atttypmod value, but it is not clear how to do\\n> this in the parser, so I put the code back in to just do a lookup in\\n> execMain/execUtils when doing an SELECT * INTO TABLE.\\n> \\n> If we start using atttypmod more, we will have to do this.\\n> \\n\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 19 Jan 1998 18:52:52 +0000 (GMT)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Keith Parks <emkxp01@mtcc.demon.co.uk>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Re: varchar() troubles\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":172,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"\nThis comes up since the varchar will no longer be padded...\n\nShould the user be allowed to create a table with fields that\nwould go over the maximum tuple size if all fields were max'd?\n\nExample...with a block size of 8192...\n\ncreate table foo (a varchar(4000), b varchar(4000), c varchar(500));\n\nIt's possible that a valid tuple according to the table definition\nwill be rejected internally.\n\n6.2 lets me create the above table, but won't let me insert in it\nunless at least one of the fields is null. 6.3 will allow the row\nas long as they collectively aren't more than the MAXTUPLEN.\n\nShould postgres issue a warning or an error about this condition\nwhen the table is created?\n\ndarrenk\n","msg_date":"Mon, 19 Jan 1998 13:53:25 -0500","msg_from":"darrenk@insightdist.com (Darren King)","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Max tuple size."},{"msg_contents":"> \n> \n> This comes up since the varchar will no longer be padded...\n> \n> Should the user be allowed to create a table with fields that\n> would go over the maximum tuple size if all fields were max'd?\n\nYes, text does not do checking, and certainly a table with three text\nfields can go over the maximum.\n\n> \n> Example...with a block size of 8192...\n> \n> create table foo (a varchar(4000), b varchar(4000), c varchar(500));\n> \n> It's possible that a valid tuple according to the table definition\n> will be rejected internally.\n> \n> 6.2 lets me create the above table, but won't let me insert in it\n> unless at least one of the fields is null. 6.3 will allow the row\n> as long as they collectively aren't more than the MAXTUPLEN.\n\nIMHO, that is good.\n\n> Should postgres issue a warning or an error about this condition\n> when the table is created?\n\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Mon, 19 Jan 1998 16:54:25 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Max tuple size."}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\nThis comes up since the varchar will no longer be padded...\\n\\nShould the user be allowed to create a table with fields that\\nwould go over the maximum tuple size if all fields were max'd?\\n\\nExample...with a block size of 8192...\\n\\ncreate table foo (a varchar(4000), b varchar(4000), c varchar(500));\\n\\nIt's possible that a valid tuple according to the table definition\\nwill be rejected internally.\\n\\n6.2 lets me create the above table, but won't let me insert in it\\nunless at least one of the fields is null. 6.3 will allow the row\\nas long as they collectively aren't more than the MAXTUPLEN.\\n\\nShould postgres issue a warning or an error about this condition\\nwhen the table is created?\\n\\ndarrenk\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 19 Jan 1998 13:53:25 -0500\",\n \"msg_from\": \"darrenk@insightdist.com (Darren King)\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Max tuple size.\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> \\n> \\n> This comes up since the varchar will no longer be padded...\\n> \\n> Should the user be allowed to create a table with fields that\\n> would go over the maximum tuple size if all fields were max'd?\\n\\nYes, text does not do checking, and certainly a table with three text\\nfields can go over the maximum.\\n\\n> \\n> Example...with a block size of 8192...\\n> \\n> create table foo (a varchar(4000), b varchar(4000), c varchar(500));\\n> \\n> It's possible that a valid tuple according to the table definition\\n> will be rejected internally.\\n> \\n> 6.2 lets me create the above table, but won't let me insert in it\\n> unless at least one of the fields is null. 6.3 will allow the row\\n> as long as they collectively aren't more than the MAXTUPLEN.\\n\\nIMHO, that is good.\\n\\n> Should postgres issue a warning or an error about this condition\\n> when the table is created?\\n\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 19 Jan 1998 16:54:25 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Max tuple size.\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":173,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"Hi,\n\nIf I want to compile the PostgreSQL 6.2.1 code with the -g flag, which Makefile\nshould I add it. I would like to run it thru a debugger. I am compiling it\nwith gcc; so I should be able to use xgdb, right?\n\nThe sort cost in the planner is assumed to be 0. So, there is an unfair bias\ntowards sort-merge join in the optimizer. If I want to add a sort cost, will\nit be enough to add it in the make_sortplan() function in \noptimizer/plan/planner.c.\nIs the size of the relation to be sorted estimated at that time?\nIf not what is the best way to do this?\n\nThanks\n--shiby\n\n","msg_date":"Mon, 19 Jan 1998 14:34:15 -0500","msg_from":"Shiby Thomas <sthomas@cise.ufl.edu>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"debug flag"},{"msg_contents":"> \n> Hi,\n> \n> If I want to compile the PostgreSQL 6.2.1 code with the -g flag, which Makefile\n> should I add it. I would like to run it thru a debugger. I am compiling it\n> with gcc; so I should be able to use xgdb, right?\n> \n> The sort cost in the planner is assumed to be 0. So, there is an unfair bias\n> towards sort-merge join in the optimizer. If I want to add a sort cost, will\n> it be enough to add it in the make_sortplan() function in \n> optimizer/plan/planner.c.\n> Is the size of the relation to be sorted estimated at that time?\n> If not what is the best way to do this?\n\nI think this is fixed in 6.3. Beta is Feb 1.\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Mon, 19 Jan 1998 16:55:22 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] debug flag"},{"msg_contents":"On Mon, 19 Jan 1998, Shiby Thomas wrote:\n\n> Hi,\n> \n> If I want to compile the PostgreSQL 6.2.1 code with the -g flag, which Makefile\n> should I add it. I would like to run it thru a debugger. I am compiling it\n> with gcc; so I should be able to use xgdb, right?\n\n\tFrom Makefile.global:\n\n##############################################################################\n# COPT\n#\n# COPT is for options that the sophisticated builder might want to vary\n# from one build to the next, like options to build Postgres with \ndebugging\n# information included. COPT is meant to be set on the make command line,\n# for example with the command \"make COPT=-g\". The value you see set here\n# is the default that gets used if the builder does not give a value for\n# COPT on his make command.\n#\n#\n\n\n","msg_date":"Mon, 19 Jan 1998 17:12:55 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] debug flag"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Hi,\\n\\nIf I want to compile the PostgreSQL 6.2.1 code with the -g flag, which Makefile\\nshould I add it. I would like to run it thru a debugger. I am compiling it\\nwith gcc; so I should be able to use xgdb, right?\\n\\nThe sort cost in the planner is assumed to be 0. So, there is an unfair bias\\ntowards sort-merge join in the optimizer. If I want to add a sort cost, will\\nit be enough to add it in the make_sortplan() function in \\noptimizer/plan/planner.c.\\nIs the size of the relation to be sorted estimated at that time?\\nIf not what is the best way to do this?\\n\\nThanks\\n--shiby\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 19 Jan 1998 14:34:15 -0500\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Shiby Thomas <sthomas@cise.ufl.edu>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"debug flag\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> \\n> Hi,\\n> \\n> If I want to compile the PostgreSQL 6.2.1 code with the -g flag, which Makefile\\n> should I add it. I would like to run it thru a debugger. I am compiling it\\n> with gcc; so I should be able to use xgdb, right?\\n> \\n> The sort cost in the planner is assumed to be 0. So, there is an unfair bias\\n> towards sort-merge join in the optimizer. If I want to add a sort cost, will\\n> it be enough to add it in the make_sortplan() function in \\n> optimizer/plan/planner.c.\\n> Is the size of the relation to be sorted estimated at that time?\\n> If not what is the best way to do this?\\n\\nI think this is fixed in 6.3. Beta is Feb 1.\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 19 Jan 1998 16:55:22 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] debug flag\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"On Mon, 19 Jan 1998, Shiby Thomas wrote:\\n\\n> Hi,\\n> \\n> If I want to compile the PostgreSQL 6.2.1 code with the -g flag, which Makefile\\n> should I add it. I would like to run it thru a debugger. I am compiling it\\n> with gcc; so I should be able to use xgdb, right?\\n\\n\\tFrom Makefile.global:\\n\\n##############################################################################\\n# COPT\\n#\\n# COPT is for options that the sophisticated builder might want to vary\\n# from one build to the next, like options to build Postgres with \\ndebugging\\n# information included. COPT is meant to be set on the make command line,\\n# for example with the command \\\"make COPT=-g\\\". The value you see set here\\n# is the default that gets used if the builder does not give a value for\\n# COPT on his make command.\\n#\\n#\\n\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 19 Jan 1998 17:12:55 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] debug flag\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":174,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"\n Hi,\n\n I'm trying to figgure out how does the locking work.\n\n If I get a ``Result Table'' from a select with, say, only one row which\ncomes from only one ``Schema Table'', and I lock the ``Result Table'',\nwill it not prevent updates of the row in ``Schema Table'' that appeared \nin the ``Result Table'' ? \n\n Thanx,\n\n Jan\n\n -- Gospel of Jesus is the saving power of God for all who believe --\nJan Vicherek ## To some, nothing is impossible. ## www.ied.com/~honza\n >>> Free Software Union President ... www.fslu.org <<<\nInteractive Electronic Design Inc. -#- PGP: finger honza@ied.com\n\n\n","msg_date":"Mon, 19 Jan 1998 17:40:33 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Jan Vicherek <honza@ied.com>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"locking"},{"msg_contents":"\n *Any* answers would be appreciated :\n\n I'll rephrase the original questions :\n\npg doesn't have \"row-level locking\" but has \"table locking\".\na result from a SELECT * FROM TESTTABLE; is a table.\nI lock the table (which is result of a SELECT).\n\n Q : will this locking prevent update of the rows in TESTTABLE that have\nbeen SELECTed ?\n\n Thanx,\n\n Jan\n\nOn Mon, 19 Jan 1998, Jan Vicherek wrote:\n\n> I'm trying to figgure out how does the locking work.\n> \n> If I get a ``Result Table'' from a select with, say, only one row which\n> comes from only one ``Schema Table'', and I lock the ``Result Table'',\n> will it not prevent updates of the row in ``Schema Table'' that appeared \n> in the ``Result Table'' ? \n\n -- Gospel of Jesus is the saving power of God for all who believe --\nJan Vicherek ## To some, nothing is impossible. ## www.ied.com/~honza\n >>> Free Software Union President ... www.fslu.org <<<\nInteractive Electronic Design Inc. -#- PGP: finger honza@ied.com\n\n","msg_date":"Tue, 20 Jan 1998 23:19:48 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Jan Vicherek <honza@ied.com>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: locking"},{"msg_contents":"If you FIRST use \"BEGIN\" to start a transaction, and THEN do the select,\nyes.\n\nThe SELECT will cause a table lock to be asserted (a read lock, allowing\nfurther SELECTs - but updates must come from INSIDE this transaction stream\nat that point).\n\nYou release the lock with either COMMIT or ROLLBACK (which either makes your\nchanges \"visible to others\", or discards them, respectively.\n\nA SELECT coming from elsewhere in the middle of a transaction sees the data\nas it existed at the time you sent the BEGIN.\n\nThis is the basic premise of transaction processing and being able to insure\nthat the data has is \"correct\", in that all in-process transactions are\ncomplete and not half-done, when someone comes browsing through the tables.\n\nWithout this you don't have a transaction system.\n\nIf you DO NOT use BEGIN/COMMIT|ROLLBACK, then each SQL statement is a\ntransaction in and of itself (ie: \"UPDATE\" locks during the execution of the\ncommand, and releases it when the update is complete).\n\n--\n-- \nKarl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin\nhttp://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly to FULL DS-3 Service\n\t\t\t | NEW! K56Flex support on ALL modems\nVoice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS\nFax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost\n\nOn Tue, Jan 20, 1998 at 11:19:48PM -0500, Jan Vicherek wrote:\n> \n> *Any* answers would be appreciated :\n> \n> I'll rephrase the original questions :\n> \n> pg doesn't have \"row-level locking\" but has \"table locking\".\n> a result from a SELECT * FROM TESTTABLE; is a table.\n> I lock the table (which is result of a SELECT).\n> \n> Q : will this locking prevent update of the rows in TESTTABLE that have\n> been SELECTed ?\n> \n> Thanx,\n> \n> Jan\n> \n> On Mon, 19 Jan 1998, Jan Vicherek wrote:\n> \n> > I'm trying to figgure out how does the locking work.\n> > \n> > If I get a ``Result Table'' from a select with, say, only one row which\n> > comes from only one ``Schema Table'', and I lock the ``Result Table'',\n> > will it not prevent updates of the row in ``Schema Table'' that appeared \n> > in the ``Result Table'' ? \n> \n> -- Gospel of Jesus is the saving power of God for all who believe --\n> Jan Vicherek ## To some, nothing is impossible. ## www.ied.com/~honza\n> >>> Free Software Union President ... www.fslu.org <<<\n> Interactive Electronic Design Inc. -#- PGP: finger honza@ied.com\n> \n> \n","msg_date":"Wed, 21 Jan 1998 07:53:02 -0600","msg_from":"Karl Denninger <karl@mcs.net>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [QUESTIONS] Re: locking"},{"msg_contents":"> \n> \n> *Any* answers would be appreciated :\n> \n> I'll rephrase the original questions :\n> \n> pg doesn't have \"row-level locking\" but has \"table locking\".\n> a result from a SELECT * FROM TESTTABLE; is a table.\n> I lock the table (which is result of a SELECT).\n> \n> Q : will this locking prevent update of the rows in TESTTABLE that have\n> been SELECTed ?\n> \n\nWhile the SELECT is running, no one can update the table. If the SELECT\nis in a transaction, no one can update the table until the transaction\ncompletes. Other people can read from the table, though.\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:05:17 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Re: locking"},{"msg_contents":"> > \n> > Q : will this locking prevent update of the rows in TESTTABLE that have\n> > been SELECTed ?\n> > \n> \n> While the SELECT is running, no one can update the table. If the SELECT\n> is in a transaction, no one can update the table until the transaction\n> completes. Other people can read from the table, though.\n\nDoes only one transaction run at a time? That is, if you have a\ntransaction from client A that does a select followed by an update\nand client B attempts the same thing, will the read portion of\nB's transaction be deferred until A's commit completes, while\na non-transaction select (read only) from B would be allowed to\nproceed?\n\n Les Mikesell\n","msg_date":"Wed, 21 Jan 1998 09:55:03 -0600 (CST)","msg_from":"Leslie Mikesell <les@Mcs.Net>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [QUESTIONS] Re: [HACKERS] Re: locking"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\n Hi,\\n\\n I'm trying to figgure out how does the locking work.\\n\\n If I get a ``Result Table'' from a select with, say, only one row which\\ncomes from only one ``Schema Table'', and I lock the ``Result Table'',\\nwill it not prevent updates of the row in ``Schema Table'' that appeared \\nin the ``Result Table'' ? \\n\\n Thanx,\\n\\n Jan\\n\\n -- Gospel of Jesus is the saving power of God for all who believe --\\nJan Vicherek ## To some, nothing is impossible. ## www.ied.com/~honza\\n >>> Free Software Union President ... www.fslu.org <<<\\nInteractive Electronic Design Inc. -#- PGP: finger honza@ied.com\\n\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 19 Jan 1998 17:40:33 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Jan Vicherek <honza@ied.com>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"locking\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\n *Any* answers would be appreciated :\\n\\n I'll rephrase the original questions :\\n\\npg doesn't have \\\"row-level locking\\\" but has \\\"table locking\\\".\\na result from a SELECT * FROM TESTTABLE; is a table.\\nI lock the table (which is result of a SELECT).\\n\\n Q : will this locking prevent update of the rows in TESTTABLE that have\\nbeen SELECTed ?\\n\\n Thanx,\\n\\n Jan\\n\\nOn Mon, 19 Jan 1998, Jan Vicherek wrote:\\n\\n> I'm trying to figgure out how does the locking work.\\n> \\n> If I get a ``Result Table'' from a select with, say, only one row which\\n> comes from only one ``Schema Table'', and I lock the ``Result Table'',\\n> will it not prevent updates of the row in ``Schema Table'' that appeared \\n> in the ``Result Table'' ? \\n\\n -- Gospel of Jesus is the saving power of God for all who believe --\\nJan Vicherek ## To some, nothing is impossible. ## www.ied.com/~honza\\n >>> Free Software Union President ... www.fslu.org <<<\\nInteractive Electronic Design Inc. -#- PGP: finger honza@ied.com\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 20 Jan 1998 23:19:48 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Jan Vicherek <honza@ied.com>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: locking\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"If you FIRST use \\\"BEGIN\\\" to start a transaction, and THEN do the select,\\nyes.\\n\\nThe SELECT will cause a table lock to be asserted (a read lock, allowing\\nfurther SELECTs - but updates must come from INSIDE this transaction stream\\nat that point).\\n\\nYou release the lock with either COMMIT or ROLLBACK (which either makes your\\nchanges \\\"visible to others\\\", or discards them, respectively.\\n\\nA SELECT coming from elsewhere in the middle of a transaction sees the data\\nas it existed at the time you sent the BEGIN.\\n\\nThis is the basic premise of transaction processing and being able to insure\\nthat the data has is \\\"correct\\\", in that all in-process transactions are\\ncomplete and not half-done, when someone comes browsing through the tables.\\n\\nWithout this you don't have a transaction system.\\n\\nIf you DO NOT use BEGIN/COMMIT|ROLLBACK, then each SQL statement is a\\ntransaction in and of itself (ie: \\\"UPDATE\\\" locks during the execution of the\\ncommand, and releases it when the update is complete).\\n\\n--\\n-- \\nKarl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin\\nhttp://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly to FULL DS-3 Service\\n\\t\\t\\t | NEW! K56Flex support on ALL modems\\nVoice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS\\nFax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost\\n\\nOn Tue, Jan 20, 1998 at 11:19:48PM -0500, Jan Vicherek wrote:\\n> \\n> *Any* answers would be appreciated :\\n> \\n> I'll rephrase the original questions :\\n> \\n> pg doesn't have \\\"row-level locking\\\" but has \\\"table locking\\\".\\n> a result from a SELECT * FROM TESTTABLE; is a table.\\n> I lock the table (which is result of a SELECT).\\n> \\n> Q : will this locking prevent update of the rows in TESTTABLE that have\\n> been SELECTed ?\\n> \\n> Thanx,\\n> \\n> Jan\\n> \\n> On Mon, 19 Jan 1998, Jan Vicherek wrote:\\n> \\n> > I'm trying to figgure out how does the locking work.\\n> > \\n> > If I get a ``Result Table'' from a select with, say, only one row which\\n> > comes from only one ``Schema Table'', and I lock the ``Result Table'',\\n> > will it not prevent updates of the row in ``Schema Table'' that appeared \\n> > in the ``Result Table'' ? \\n> \\n> -- Gospel of Jesus is the saving power of God for all who believe --\\n> Jan Vicherek ## To some, nothing is impossible. ## www.ied.com/~honza\\n> >>> Free Software Union President ... www.fslu.org <<<\\n> Interactive Electronic Design Inc. -#- PGP: finger honza@ied.com\\n> \\n> \\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Wed, 21 Jan 1998 07:53:02 -0600\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Karl Denninger <karl@mcs.net>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [QUESTIONS] Re: locking\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> \\n> \\n> *Any* answers would be appreciated :\\n> \\n> I'll rephrase the original questions :\\n> \\n> pg doesn't have \\\"row-level locking\\\" but has \\\"table locking\\\".\\n> a result from a SELECT * FROM TESTTABLE; is a table.\\n> I lock the table (which is result of a SELECT).\\n> \\n> Q : will this locking prevent update of the rows in TESTTABLE that have\\n> been SELECTed ?\\n> \\n\\nWhile the SELECT is running, no one can update the table. If the SELECT\\nis in a transaction, no one can update the table until the transaction\\ncompletes. Other people can read from the table, though.\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:05:17 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Re: locking\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> > \\n> > Q : will this locking prevent update of the rows in TESTTABLE that have\\n> > been SELECTed ?\\n> > \\n> \\n> While the SELECT is running, no one can update the table. If the SELECT\\n> is in a transaction, no one can update the table until the transaction\\n> completes. Other people can read from the table, though.\\n\\nDoes only one transaction run at a time? That is, if you have a\\ntransaction from client A that does a select followed by an update\\nand client B attempts the same thing, will the read portion of\\nB's transaction be deferred until A's commit completes, while\\na non-transaction select (read only) from B would be allowed to\\nproceed?\\n\\n Les Mikesell\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Wed, 21 Jan 1998 09:55:03 -0600 (CST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Leslie Mikesell <les@Mcs.Net>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [QUESTIONS] Re: [HACKERS] Re: locking\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":175,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"I have cleaned up the parser code as best I could. I still am very\nconfused by much of the code in parser_func, parser_oper, and\nparser_type, and others. If someone wants to study this stuff and get a\nclearer layout, that would be great.\n\nI have added 'lock;' to the i386 asm.\n\nI have change SubLink to send Oper* for Vadim.\n\nI have not added Var->sublevels_up yet.\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Tue, 20 Jan 1998 00:03:09 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"parser cleanup"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"I have cleaned up the parser code as best I could. I still am very\\nconfused by much of the code in parser_func, parser_oper, and\\nparser_type, and others. If someone wants to study this stuff and get a\\nclearer layout, that would be great.\\n\\nI have added 'lock;' to the i386 asm.\\n\\nI have change SubLink to send Oper* for Vadim.\\n\\nI have not added Var->sublevels_up yet.\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 20 Jan 1998 00:03:09 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"parser cleanup\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":176,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"I can't figure out how to properly do the the Var->sublevels_up search in the\nexisting code, partly because I can't figure out what it is doing.\n\nIt will take me a few days more to do it. I just can't look at the code\nanymore.\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Tue, 20 Jan 1998 00:21:00 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Var->sublevels_up"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"I can't figure out how to properly do the the Var->sublevels_up search in the\\nexisting code, partly because I can't figure out what it is doing.\\n\\nIt will take me a few days more to do it. I just can't look at the code\\nanymore.\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 20 Jan 1998 00:21:00 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Var->sublevels_up\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":177,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"> \n> I can't figure out how to properly do the the Var->sublevels_up search in the\n> existing code, partly because I can't figure out what it is doing.\n> \n> It will take me a few days more to do it. I just can't look at the code\n> anymore.\n\nOK, I think I have a handle on it now. Should be two days.\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Tue, 20 Jan 1998 01:55:43 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: Var->sublevels_up"},{"msg_contents":"Bruce Momjian wrote:\n> \n> >\n> > I can't figure out how to properly do the the Var->sublevels_up search in the\n> > existing code, partly because I can't figure out what it is doing.\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nIt says what range table should be used to find Var' relation.\n\n> >\n> > It will take me a few days more to do it. I just can't look at the code\n> > anymore.\n> \n> OK, I think I have a handle on it now. Should be two days.\n\nOk.\n\nVadim\n","msg_date":"Tue, 20 Jan 1998 14:11:43 +0700","msg_from":"\"Vadim B. Mikheev\" <vadim@sable.krasnoyarsk.su>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: Var->sublevels_up"},{"msg_contents":"> \n> Bruce Momjian wrote:\n> > \n> > >\n> > > I can't figure out how to properly do the the Var->sublevels_up search in the\n> > > existing code, partly because I can't figure out what it is doing.\n> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n> It says what range table should be used to find Var' relation.\n\nMy problem was the ParseFunc really does much more than handle\nfunctions. It handles:\n\n\tcolname\n\trel.colname\n\trel.colname.func\n\tsum(colname)\n\tsum(rel.colname)\n\t\nand probably much more than that.\n\n> \n> > >\n> > > It will take me a few days more to do it. I just can't look at the code\n> > > anymore.\n> > \n> > OK, I think I have a handle on it now. Should be two days.\n> \n> Ok.\n> \n> Vadim\n> \n> \n\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:42:12 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Re: Var->sublevels_up"},{"msg_contents":"> \n> Can someone figure out why atttypmod for system relations is not always\n> zero? Sometimes it is -1 and other times it is 1, and I can't figure\n> out why.\n\nI found the problem. You will have to initdb to see the fix.\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Thu, 5 Feb 1998 14:00:53 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: atttypmod is wrong in system catalogs"},{"msg_contents":"> \n> > > CREATED relation pg_description with OID 17847\n> > > Commit End\n> > Amopen: relation pg_description. attrsize 63\n> > create attribute 0 name objoid len 4 num 1 type 26\n> > create attribute 1 name description len -1 num 2 type 25\n> > > Amclose: relation (null).\n> > > initdb: could not create template database\n> > initdb: cleaning up by wiping out /usr/local/pgsql/data/base/template1\n> > \n> > Installing the \"#define long int\" gives about 40 pages of errors.\n\nI saw this in hsearch.h:\n\t\n\ttypedef struct element\n\t{\n\t unsigned long next; /* secret from user */\n\t long key;\n\t} ELEMENT;\n\t \n\ttypedef unsigned long BUCKET_INDEX;\n\nI wonder is this is the problem. Should then be ints. It would be\ngreat if you could read the hash value going in for mkoidname function,\nand then see if the same key is being used for the lookup. Perhaps some\nelog(NOTICE) lines near the hash function would tell you this. \n\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:39:50 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] PostGreSQL v6.2.1 for Linux Alpha"},{"msg_contents":"> Yes, the threading topic has come up before, and I have never considered\n> it a big win. We want to remove the exec() from the startup, so we just\n> do a fork. Will save 0.001 seconds of startup.\n> \n> That is a very easy win for us. I hadn't considered the synchonization\n> problems with palloc/pfree, and that could be a real problem.\n\nI was wrong here. Removing exec() will save 0.01 seconds, not 0.001\nseconds. Typical backend startup and a single query is 0.08 seconds. \nRemoval of exec() will take this down to 0.07 seconds.\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian | 830 Blythe Avenue\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026\n + If your life is a hard drive, | (610) 353-9879(w)\n + Christ can be your backup. | (610) 853-3000(h)\n","msg_date":"Fri, 13 Mar 1998 09:49:01 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Re: [QUESTIONS] Does Storage Manager support >2GB\n\ttables?"},{"msg_contents":"> OK, I have the artist_fti table with 4.5 million rows, with an index\n> artist_fti_idx on artist_fti.string. I don't have a 'product' table\n> because I don't have the disk space, but that is not really a problem\n> for testing. \n> \n> I used the product table to populate the artits_fti, then deleted the\n> table so I could create the artist_fti_idx index. Single table, no\n> join.\n> \n> I am running on BSD/OS 3.1 PP200 with SCSI Ultra Barracuda disks.\n> \n> I am seeing the same thing you are. 'lling' and 'tones' take 11-22\n> seconds on the first few runs, then return almost immediately. If I do\n> another query and come back to the first one, I have the same slowness,\n> with the disk light being on almost constantly. Certain queries seem to\n> lend themselves to speeding up, while 'rol' never seems to get really\n> fast.\n> \n> I have to conclude that because of the way this table is created by\n> slicing words, its layout is almost random. The table is 272MB, and\n> with 8k/page, that is 34,000 pages. If we are going for 2,500 rows,\n> odds are that each row is in a separate page. So, to do the query, we\n> are retrieving 2,500 8k pages, or 20MB of random data on the disk. How\n> long does it take to issue 2,500 disk requests that are scattered all\n> over the disk. Probably 11-22 seconds.\n> \n> My OS only lets me have 400 8k buffers, or 3.2MB of buffer. As we are\n> transferring 2,500 8k pages or 20MB of data, it is no surprise that the\n> buffer cache doesn't help much. Sometime, the data is grouped together\n> on the disk, and that is why some are fast, but often they are not, and\n> certainly in a situation where you are looking for two words to appear\n> on the same row, they certainly are not on adjacent pages.\n> \n> Just started running CLUSTER, and it appears to be taking forever. Does\n> not seem to be using the disk, but a lot of CPU. It appears to be\n> caught in an endless loop.\n\nOK, I have an answer for you.\n\nFirst, the CLUSTER problem I was having was some fluke, probably\nsomething else that got stuck somewhere. Not a bug.\n\nSecond, CLUSTER takes forever because it is moving all over the disk\nretrieving each row in order.\n\nThird, I should have been able to solve this for you sooner. The issues\nof slowness you are seeing are the exact issues I dealt with five years\nago when I designed this fragmentation system. I was so excited that\nyou could develop triggers to slice the words, I had forgotten the other\nissues.\n\nOK, it is. As part of this fragmentation job, EVERY NIGHT, I re-slice\nthe user strings and dump them into a flat file. I then load them into\nIngres as a heap table, then modify the table to ISAM.\n\nYou may say, why every night. Well, the problem is I load the data at\n100% fill-factor, and ISAM rapidly becomes fragmented with\ninsertions/deletions.\n\nBtree does not become fragmented, but the problem there is that btree\nuse was very slow. I believe this is because ISAM is basically a SORTED\nHEAP with an index, so everything is close and packed tight. Btree\ndoesn't seem to do that as well. It is more spread out.\n\nUsers complain about the nightly re-index, but I tell them, 'Hey, you\nare searching for fragments of words in 200k entries in 6 seconds. I can\ndesign it without the night job, but your searches all day will take\nmuch longer.\" That stops the conversation.\n\nSo, to your solution. CLUSTER is too slow. The disk is going crazy\nmoving single rows into the temp table. I recommend doing a COPY of\nartist_fti to a flat file, doing a Unix 'sort' on the flat file, then\nre-loading the data into the artist_fti, and then putting the index on\nthe table and vacuum.\n\nI have done this, and now all searches are instantaneous THE FIRST TIME\nand every time.\n\nWith this change, I am anxious to hear how fast you can now do your\nmulti-word searches. Daily changes will not really impact performance\nbecause they are a small part of the total search, but this process of\nCOPY/sort/reload/reindex will need to be done on a regular basis to\nmaintain performance.\n\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian | 830 Blythe Avenue\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026\n + If your life is a hard drive, | (610) 353-9879(w)\n + Christ can be your backup. | (610) 853-3000(h)\n","msg_date":"Sat, 14 Mar 1998 01:27:33 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: indexing words slow"},{"msg_contents":"> Second, CLUSTER takes forever because it is moving all over the disk\n> retrieving each row in order.\n> \n\n> So, to your solution. CLUSTER is too slow. The disk is going crazy\n> moving single rows into the temp table. I recommend doing a COPY of\n> artist_fti to a flat file, doing a Unix 'sort' on the flat file, then\n> re-loading the data into the artist_fti, and then putting the index on\n> the table and vacuum.\n> \n> I have done this, and now all searches are instantaneous THE FIRST TIME\n> and every time.\n> \n> With this change, I am anxious to hear how fast you can now do your\n> multi-word searches. Daily changes will not really impact performance\n> because they are a small part of the total search, but this process of\n> COPY/sort/reload/reindex will need to be done on a regular basis to\n> maintain performance.\n\nOne more piece of good news. The reason CLUSTER was so slow is because\nyou loaded massive unordered amounts of data into the system. Once you\ndo the COPY out/reload, subsequent clusters will run very quickly,\nbecause 99% of the data is already ordered. Only the new/changed data\nis unordered, so you should be able to rapidly run CLUSTER from then on\nto keep good performance.\n\nI think a user module allowing this word fragment searching will be a\nbig hit with users.\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian | 830 Blythe Avenue\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026\n + If your life is a hard drive, | (610) 353-9879(w)\n + Christ can be your backup. | (610) 853-3000(h)\n","msg_date":"Sat, 14 Mar 1998 01:40:12 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Re: indexing words slow"},{"msg_contents":"Here is a general comments on maintaining the FAQ, and pointing people\nto answers.\n\nFirst, the FAQ is a pretty weird way to give people information. It is\nan almost random list of questions and answers. If the list is long,\npeople can get very impatient, and start skimming over the list. That\nis OK, as long as they can find the information when they need it. \nUnfortunately, because it is in random order, it makes things very hard\nto find.\n\nOK, my strategy. Let me give you two examples. People get deadlocks\nquite often, usually novice SQL users. We need to explain to them what\nthey have done so they can re-design their queries to avoid it. I could\nhave put it in the FAQ, but it really belongs in the LOCK manual page. \nSo I put it in the lock manual page, and added a mention in the\n'deadlock' error message to look at the 'lock' manual page for a\ndescription of the problem. This is perfect, because as soon as they\nget the error, they are pointed to the proper place that has the exact\nanswer they need. Same with the new postmaster -i option. By putting a\nmention in the libpq connect failure message to look for postmaster -i,\npeople are pointed right to the problem.\n\nThis has cut down on the problem reports tremendously. I think\ncommercial software doesn't do very good in this area, probably because\nthe support people are not the same as the developers. Because we are\nthe same people, we think of these things.\n\nSecond, if an FAQ issue is described in the manual pages or docs, I\npoint them to those, rather than re-iterating a long description of the\nproblem. I have tried to move as much as possible OUT of the FAQ, and\ninto the well-structured manual pages or error message. This leaves\nreal FAQ items on the FAQ, things that really don't fit in a manual page\nor are too general to fit anywhere else.\n\nI must say that people usually have been reading the FAQ, because we\nrarely get a question that is answered on the FAQ.\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian | 830 Blythe Avenue\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026\n + If your life is a hard drive, | (610) 353-9879(w)\n + Christ can be your backup. | (610) 853-3000(h)\n","msg_date":"Sat, 18 Apr 1998 22:50:17 -0400 (EDT)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: [DOCS] FAQ organization"},{"msg_contents":"On Sat, 18 Apr 1998, Bruce Momjian wrote:\n\n> Here is a general comments on maintaining the FAQ, and pointing people\n> to answers.\n> \n> First, the FAQ is a pretty weird way to give people information. It is\n> an almost random list of questions and answers. If the list is long,\n> people can get very impatient, and start skimming over the list. That\n> is OK, as long as they can find the information when they need it. \n> Unfortunately, because it is in random order, it makes things very hard\n> to find.\n\nWell, this is why we need to structure it, so that it is _not_ a long\nunsorted list of questions, and trying to group questions that look alike.\n\n> OK, my strategy. Let me give you two examples. People get deadlocks\n> quite often, usually novice SQL users. We need to explain to them what\n> they have done so they can re-design their queries to avoid it. I could\n> have put it in the FAQ, but it really belongs in the LOCK manual page. \n> So I put it in the lock manual page, and added a mention in the\n> 'deadlock' error message to look at the 'lock' manual page for a\n> description of the problem. This is perfect, because as soon as they\n> get the error, they are pointed to the proper place that has the exact\n> answer they need. Same with the new postmaster -i option. By putting a\n> mention in the libpq connect failure message to look for postmaster -i,\n> people are pointed right to the problem.\n\nWell, I understand what you want. Sure, the right solution for the FAQ\nwould be to give pointers to the manual pages. But sometimes it is not\nsufficient. Sometimes, people have problems and have no idea where they\ncome from, they don't know where to look at, and what they should look at.\nSometimes there are more than one suitable way of solving a problem, since\nsimilar problems can sometimes be best resolved by completely different\nsolutions, which are spread over the docs. There, the FAQ can be : \"you've\ngot this kind of problems, you can solve it by doing that, or that, or\nthat. Look here, there, and there for details\". \n\nSometimes, it's better not to wait for people to get the error messages.\nAs a software user, I often read quickly through the FAQs to look at\ncommon errors people do, so that, even before I start using the software,\nI have a vague idea of what I should not do. So, people dealing with\nconcurrent access/update have a chance to be said : \"Beware! You should\nlook at the LOCK man page / `Concurrent access under Postgres' user manual\nsection if you feel you might have deadlock problems\". Or to people using\nJDBC, \"don't forget to use the -i flag !\", instead of waiting for them to\npanic because it doesn't work the way it should.\n\n> This has cut down on the problem reports tremendously. I think\n> commercial software doesn't do very good in this area, probably because\n> the support people are not the same as the developers. Because we are\n> the same people, we think of these things.\n\nWell, actually, I've always found commercial software support docs - when\nthere are any - to be much worse that support files in free software :)\nEspecially the \"troubleshooting\" section, where they often consider 1. you\nare dumb, and forgot to power on the computer 2. the software never fails,\nso they don't describe at all the error code -3257.\n\n> Second, if an FAQ issue is described in the manual pages or docs, I\n> point them to those, rather than re-iterating a long description of the\n> problem. I have tried to move as much as possible OUT of the FAQ, and\n> into the well-structured manual pages or error message. This leaves\n> real FAQ items on the FAQ, things that really don't fit in a manual page\n> or are too general to fit anywhere else.\n\nWell, the FAQ shouldn't re-say things in detail when they can be found\nsomewhere else. But sometimes, you have to explain the same things\ndifferently because the problem doesn't direct people necessarily to the\nright page, or maybe they should find it by themselves, but they don't,\nbecause they are not familiar with the structure of the software or of the\nsupport documentations.\n\nTaking your example of the -i option : often people which have problems\nconcerning this don't even realize their problem comes from not allowing\nthe postmaster to listen to TCP/IP ports... they think JDBC, or perl\ninterface, or postgres itself, are not working, and the symptoms can be\nquite different. You have to tell them the cause of their problem, and\nwhere to look, and if you can provide a quick fix without obliging them to\ndig in the docs, it can be only better.\n\nAnother example : constraints, foreign keys (I know the man pages will be\nupdated :) ). People ask questions like : \"I did this which should work,\nand it doesn't work in Postgres!\". If they read the CREATE TABLE man page,\nthey would have the answer. But somehow there are people who, even after\nreading the man page, won't see what's wrong. So the FAQ may be the\nsolution to their problem, saying quickly : \"You cannot specify\nconstraints this way, do them that way (quick example). Read the CREATE\nTABLE, CREATE INDEX man pages\".\n\nHmm... actually, for this specific example, we could do a FAQ like this :\n\nQxx.xx : I tried to enter this SQL command as I used to in (MySQL,\nInformix, ORACLE), and it doesn't work. Why ?\n\nA : Every DBMS has some particularities in its SQL syntax. Please refer to\nthe Postgres man pages to see what syntax the Postgres parser follows.\n\netc...\n\nand maybe some other questions, answering special cases where it is not so\nevident... (we don't do subselects in target ?).\n\n> I must say that people usually have been reading the FAQ, because we\n> rarely get a question that is answered on the FAQ.\n\nSo by collecting questions on the mailing list, we can see what answers\nthe FAQ does not provide yet :)\n\nAnyway, I think it's important for the FAQ to redirect people to the right\nsections of the different manuals, but if you can have quick fixes, maybe\ngive them in the answer itself (\"did you use the -i flag on the command\nline ?\").\n\nIt is better to say it twice, if it can help people solve their problem\nfaster, though answers _must_ stay short (or else they deserve to have a\nspecial section in the main docs and a pointer to it :) ).\n\nDo I seem reasonable ??\n\nPatrice\n\n--\nPatrice H�D� --------------------------------- patrice@idf.net -----\n\n","msg_date":"Sun, 19 Apr 1998 18:23:41 +0200 (MET DST)","msg_from":"=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Patrice_H=E9d=E9?= <patrice@idf.net>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [DOCS] FAQ organization"},{"msg_contents":"> So by collecting questions on the mailing list, we can see what answers\n> the FAQ does not provide yet :)\n> \n> Anyway, I think it's important for the FAQ to redirect people to the right\n> sections of the different manuals, but if you can have quick fixes, maybe\n> give them in the answer itself (\"did you use the -i flag on the command\n> line ?\").\n> \n> It is better to say it twice, if it can help people solve their problem\n> faster, though answers _must_ stay short (or else they deserve to have a\n> special section in the main docs and a pointer to it :) ).\n> \n> Do I seem reasonable ??\n\nI agree 100% with everything you said. I just wanted to mention that if\nyou find frequent questions that should addressed in the manual\npages/docs, or error messages, please let us know so we can add them\nthere too. I am sure there are many that I have missed.\n\nI have taken a minimalist approach to the FAQ, partially because I have\nnot concentrated on it. I am looking forward to a better, more\ncomprehensive FAQ. I have been particularly lacking in adding FAQ items\nfor novice questions.\n\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian | 830 Blythe Avenue\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026\n + If your life is a hard drive, | (610) 353-9879(w)\n + Christ can be your backup. | (610) 853-3000(h)\n","msg_date":"Mon, 20 Apr 1998 13:50:23 -0400 (EDT)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: [DOCS] FAQ organization"},{"msg_contents":"On Mon, 20 Apr 1998, Bruce Momjian wrote:\n\n> I agree 100% with everything you said. I just wanted to mention that if\n> you find frequent questions that should addressed in the manual\n> pages/docs, or error messages, please let us know so we can add them\n> there too. I am sure there are many that I have missed.\n\nOk. I'll do it in two steps : first, SGMLize the FAQ and adding entries,\nthen look at it and say \"this should go here, that should move there,\netc...\" in coordination with Tom and all the docs-enthousiasts :)\n\n> I have taken a minimalist approach to the FAQ, partially because I have\n> not concentrated on it. I am looking forward to a better, more\n> comprehensive FAQ. I have been particularly lacking in adding FAQ items\n> for novice questions.\n\nWell, you have so much to do besides the FAQ. As I don't do any coding,\nI'll be able to focus on docs, and especially the FAQ. I still wonder how\nyou all are able to find the time to code, debug, document, and still\nkeeping answering people on the mailing list and all ! :) \n\nPatrice\n\n--\nPatrice H�D� --------------------------------- patrice@idf.net -----\n\n","msg_date":"Tue, 21 Apr 1998 12:33:33 +0200 (MET DST)","msg_from":"=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Patrice_H=E9d=E9?= <patrice@idf.net>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [DOCS] FAQ organization"},{"msg_contents":"> > I have taken a minimalist approach to the FAQ, partially because I have\n> > not concentrated on it. I am looking forward to a better, more\n> > comprehensive FAQ. I have been particularly lacking in adding FAQ items\n> > for novice questions.\n> \n> Well, you have so much to do besides the FAQ. As I don't do any coding,\n> I'll be able to focus on docs, and especially the FAQ. I still wonder how\n> you all are able to find the time to code, debug, document, and still\n> keeping answering people on the mailing list and all ! :) \n\nI only spend about 2-3 days a month coding. The rest is just little\ntweaking.\n\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian | 830 Blythe Avenue\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026\n + If your life is a hard drive, | (610) 353-9879(w)\n + Christ can be your backup. | (610) 853-3000(h)\n","msg_date":"Tue, 21 Apr 1998 12:43:40 -0400 (EDT)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: [DOCS] FAQ organization"},{"msg_contents":"> This exec() takes 15% of our startup time. I have wanted it removed for\n> many releases now. The only problem is to rip out the code that\n> re-attached to shared memory and stuff like that, because you will no\n> longer loose the shared memory in the exec(). The IPC code is\n> complicated, so good luck. I or others can help if you get stuck.\n> \n\nAnother item is to no longer use SYSV shared memory but use\nmmap(MAP_ANON) because this allows a much larger amount of shared memory\nto be used.\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian | 830 Blythe Avenue\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026\n + If your life is a hard drive, | (610) 353-9879(w)\n + Christ can be your backup. | (610) 853-3000(h)\n","msg_date":"Wed, 29 Apr 1998 21:53:36 -0400 (EDT)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] removing the exec() from doexec()"},{"msg_contents":"On Wed, 29 April 1998, at 21:53:36, Bruce Momjian wrote:\n\n> > This exec() takes 15% of our startup time. I have wanted it removed for\n> > many releases now. The only problem is to rip out the code that\n> > re-attached to shared memory and stuff like that, because you will no\n> > longer loose the shared memory in the exec(). The IPC code is\n> > complicated, so good luck. I or others can help if you get stuck.\n> > \n> \n> Another item is to no longer use SYSV shared memory but use\n> mmap(MAP_ANON) because this allows a much larger amount of shared memory\n> to be used.\n\nWhat are the portability issues? I haven't written much portable\ncode, and certainly not with IPC.\n","msg_date":"Wed, 29 Apr 1998 19:01:01 -0700 (PDT)","msg_from":"Brett McCormick <brett@work.chicken.org>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] removing the exec() from doexec()"},{"msg_contents":"> \n> On Wed, 29 April 1998, at 21:53:36, Bruce Momjian wrote:\n> \n> > > This exec() takes 15% of our startup time. I have wanted it removed for\n> > > many releases now. The only problem is to rip out the code that\n> > > re-attached to shared memory and stuff like that, because you will no\n> > > longer loose the shared memory in the exec(). The IPC code is\n> > > complicated, so good luck. I or others can help if you get stuck.\n> > > \n> > \n> > Another item is to no longer use SYSV shared memory but use\n> > mmap(MAP_ANON) because this allows a much larger amount of shared memory\n> > to be used.\n> \n> What are the portability issues? I haven't written much portable\n> code, and certainly not with IPC.\n\nNot sure. mmap() is pretty portable. We will shake out any portability\nissues as we go, or you can ask the list if everyone has such-and-such a\nfunction.\n\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian | 830 Blythe Avenue\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026\n + If your life is a hard drive, | (610) 353-9879(w)\n + Christ can be your backup. | (610) 853-3000(h)\n","msg_date":"Wed, 29 Apr 1998 22:05:41 -0400 (EDT)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] removing the exec() from doexec()"},{"msg_contents":"> \n> Quick note... Just to say that I found a bug in postgres 6.3.2 that I just this\n> minute downloaded from the ftp site... It doesn't compile under AIX 4.2.1 with\n> the latest C for AIX ver 3.1.4\n> \n> It's only aminor problem, some of the variables in pqcomm.c are declared as\n> int, and being passed to functions that expect a long * variable (Actually the\n> function paramaters are declared as size_t).\n> \n> The fix is to change the addrlen variable used on line 673 to a size_t instead\n> of an int, and also for the len variable used on line 787.\n> \n> Sorry... No diffs... No time, and I dont' subscribe to the list... I just like\n> postgres (Maybe I'll subscribe one day... Too busy at the moment).\n\nThe line you are complaining about is:\n\n if ((port->sock = accept(server_fd,\n (struct sockaddr *) & port->raddr,\n &addrlen)) < 0)\n\nwhile BSDI has accept defined as:\n\n\tint accept(int s, struct sockaddr *addr, int *addrlen);\n\nSo AIX has the last parameter defined as size_t, huh? I looked at the\naccept manual page, and addrlen is the length of the addr field. Hard\nto imagine that is ever going to be larger than an int. Does any other\nOS have that third parameter as anything but an int*?\n\nWe may need to add some aix-specific check on a configure check for\nthis.\n\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian | 830 Blythe Avenue\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026\n + If your life is a hard drive, | (610) 353-9879(w)\n + Christ can be your backup. | (610) 853-3000(h)\n","msg_date":"Fri, 22 May 1998 00:33:50 -0400 (EDT)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Bug in postgresql-6.3.2"},{"msg_contents":"> The line you are complaining about is:\n> \n> if ((port->sock = accept(server_fd,\n> (struct sockaddr *) & port->raddr,\n> &addrlen)) < 0)\n> \n> while BSDI has accept defined as:\n> \n> \tint accept(int s, struct sockaddr *addr, int *addrlen);\n> \n> So AIX has the last parameter defined as size_t, huh? I looked at the\n> accept manual page, and addrlen is the length of the addr field. Hard\n> to imagine that is ever going to be larger than an int. Does any other\n> OS have that third parameter as anything but an int*?\n> \n> We may need to add some aix-specific check on a configure check for\n> this.\n\n>From aix 4.1 to 4.2, it changed from an int* to an unsigned long*, which\nis probably what size_t is defined as.\n\nWasn't just accept() though. There were other socket functions, but I\ndon't recall the names offhand. Not around aix anymore either... :)\n\nCheck thru the questions digests. I helped a couple of people compile\npast this glitch, latest being Jim Kraii I believe.\n\ndarrenk\n","msg_date":"Fri, 22 May 1998 01:27:41 -0400","msg_from":"\"Stupor Genius\" <stuporg@erols.com>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"RE: [HACKERS] Bug in postgresql-6.3.2"},{"msg_contents":"> \n> > Please enter a FULL description of your problem:\n> > ------------------------------------------------\n> > Dropping table after aborting a transanction makes PosgresSQL unsable.\n> > \n> > \n> > Please describe a way to repeat the problem. Please try to provide a\n> > concise reproducible example, if at all possible: \n> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------\n> > [srashd]t-ishii{67} psql -e test < b\n> > QUERY: drop table test;\n> > WARN:Relation test Does Not Exist!\n> > QUERY: create table test (i int4);\n> > QUERY: create index iindex on test using btree(i);\n> > QUERY: begin;\n> > QUERY: insert into test values (100);\n> > QUERY: select * from test;\n> > i\n> > ---\n> > 100\n> > (1 row)\n> > \n> > QUERY: rollback;\n> > QUERY: drop table test;\n> > NOTICE:AbortTransaction and not in in-progress state \n> > NOTICE:AbortTransaction and not in in-progress state \n> > \n> > Note that if I do not make an index, it would be ok.\n> \n> Can someone comment on the cause of the above problem? Is it a bug to\n> add to the TODO list? I have verified it still exists in the current\n> sources.\n> \n\nThe message I see in the logs for this is:\n\nERROR: cannot write block 1 of iindex [test] blind\nNOTICE: AbortTransaction and not in in-progress state\nNOTICE: EndTransactionBlock and not inprogress/abort state\n\nVadim, sounds familiar.\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian | 830 Blythe Avenue\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026\n + If your life is a hard drive, | (610) 353-9879(w)\n + Christ can be your backup. | (610) 853-3000(h)\n","msg_date":"Sat, 13 Jun 1998 01:31:19 -0400 (EDT)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: [BUGS] NOTICE:AbortTransaction and not in in-progress state"},{"msg_contents":"Bruce Momjian wrote:\n> \n> > > QUERY: drop table test;\n> > > WARN:Relation test Does Not Exist!\n> > > QUERY: create table test (i int4);\n> > > QUERY: create index iindex on test using btree(i);\n> > > QUERY: begin;\n> > > QUERY: insert into test values (100);\n\nThere will be dirty heap & index buffers in the pool after insertion ...\n\n> > > QUERY: select * from test;\n> > > i\n> > > ---\n> > > 100\n> > > (1 row)\n> > >\n> > > QUERY: rollback;\n\nThey are still marked as dirty...\n\n> > > QUERY: drop table test;\n\nheap_destroy_with_catalog () calls ReleaseRelationBuffers:\n\n * this function unmarks all the dirty pages of a relation\n * in the buffer pool so that at the end of transaction\n * these pages will not be flushed.\n\nbefore unlinking relation, BUT index_destroy() unlinks index\nand DOESN'T call this func ...\n\n> > > NOTICE:AbortTransaction and not in in-progress state\n> > > NOTICE:AbortTransaction and not in in-progress state\n\nCOMMIT (of drop table) tries to flush all dirty buffers\nfrom pool but there is no index file any more ...\n\n> ERROR: cannot write block 1 of iindex [test] blind\n\nsmgrblindwrt () fails.\n\n> NOTICE: AbortTransaction and not in in-progress state\n> NOTICE: EndTransactionBlock and not inprogress/abort state\n\n...transaction state is IN_COMMIT...\n\nSeems that ReleaseRelationBuffers() should be called by\nindex_destroy() ... Note that heap_destroy() also calls\n\n /* ok - flush the relation from the relcache */\n RelationForgetRelation(rid);\n\nat the end...\n\nVadim\n","msg_date":"Sat, 13 Jun 1998 14:18:05 +0800","msg_from":"Vadim Mikheev <vadim@krs.ru>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [BUGS] NOTICE:AbortTransaction and not in in-progress state"},{"msg_contents":"> \n> Bruce Momjian wrote:\n> > \n> > > > QUERY: drop table test;\n> > > > WARN:Relation test Does Not Exist!\n> > > > QUERY: create table test (i int4);\n> > > > QUERY: create index iindex on test using btree(i);\n> > > > QUERY: begin;\n> > > > QUERY: insert into test values (100);\n> \n> There will be dirty heap & index buffers in the pool after insertion ...\n> \n> > > > QUERY: select * from test;\n> > > > i\n> > > > ---\n> > > > 100\n> > > > (1 row)\n> > > >\n> > > > QUERY: rollback;\n> \n> They are still marked as dirty...\n> \n> > > > QUERY: drop table test;\n> \n> heap_destroy_with_catalog () calls ReleaseRelationBuffers:\n> \n> * this function unmarks all the dirty pages of a relation\n> * in the buffer pool so that at the end of transaction\n> * these pages will not be flushed.\n> \n> before unlinking relation, BUT index_destroy() unlinks index\n> and DOESN'T call this func ...\n> \n> > > > NOTICE:AbortTransaction and not in in-progress state\n> > > > NOTICE:AbortTransaction and not in in-progress state\n> \n> COMMIT (of drop table) tries to flush all dirty buffers\n> from pool but there is no index file any more ...\n> \n> > ERROR: cannot write block 1 of iindex [test] blind\n> \n> smgrblindwrt () fails.\n> \n> > NOTICE: AbortTransaction and not in in-progress state\n> > NOTICE: EndTransactionBlock and not inprogress/abort state\n> \n> ...transaction state is IN_COMMIT...\n> \n> Seems that ReleaseRelationBuffers() should be called by\n> index_destroy() ... Note that heap_destroy() also calls\n> \n> /* ok - flush the relation from the relcache */\n> RelationForgetRelation(rid);\n> \n> at the end...\n> \n> Vadim\n> \n\nOK, the following patch fixes the problem. Vadim, I added both function\ncalls to index_destroy and made heap_destroy consistent with\nheap_destroy_with_catalog.\n\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nIndex: src/backend/catalog/heap.c\n===================================================================\nRCS file: /usr/local/cvsroot/pgsql/src/backend/catalog/heap.c,v\nretrieving revision 1.48\ndiff -c -r1.48 heap.c\n*** heap.c\t1998/04/27 04:04:47\t1.48\n--- heap.c\t1998/06/13 20:13:18\n***************\n*** 12,18 ****\n * INTERFACE ROUTINES\n *\t\theap_create()\t\t\t- Create an uncataloged heap relation\n *\t\theap_create_with_catalog() - Create a cataloged relation\n! *\t\theap_destroy_with_catalog()\t\t\t- Removes named relation from catalogs\n *\n * NOTES\n *\t this code taken from access/heap/create.c, which contains\n--- 12,18 ----\n * INTERFACE ROUTINES\n *\t\theap_create()\t\t\t- Create an uncataloged heap relation\n *\t\theap_create_with_catalog() - Create a cataloged relation\n! *\t\theap_destroy_with_catalog()\t- Removes named relation from catalogs\n *\n * NOTES\n *\t this code taken from access/heap/create.c, which contains\n***************\n*** 1290,1307 ****\n \t * ----------------\n \t */\n \tif (rdesc->rd_rel->relhasindex)\n- \t{\n \t\tRelationRemoveIndexes(rdesc);\n- \t}\n \n \t/* ----------------\n \t *\tremove rules if necessary\n \t * ----------------\n \t */\n \tif (rdesc->rd_rules != NULL)\n- \t{\n \t\tRelationRemoveRules(rid);\n- \t}\n \n \t/* triggers */\n \tif (rdesc->rd_rel->reltriggers > 0)\n--- 1290,1303 ----\n***************\n*** 1347,1355 ****\n \t * ----------------\n \t */\n \tif (!(rdesc->rd_istemp) || !(rdesc->rd_tmpunlinked))\n- \t{\n \t\tsmgrunlink(DEFAULT_SMGR, rdesc);\n! \t}\n \trdesc->rd_tmpunlinked = TRUE;\n \n \tRelationUnsetLockForWrite(rdesc);\n--- 1343,1350 ----\n \t * ----------------\n \t */\n \tif (!(rdesc->rd_istemp) || !(rdesc->rd_tmpunlinked))\n \t\tsmgrunlink(DEFAULT_SMGR, rdesc);\n! \n \trdesc->rd_tmpunlinked = TRUE;\n \n \tRelationUnsetLockForWrite(rdesc);\n***************\n*** 1375,1380 ****\n--- 1370,1376 ----\n \trdesc->rd_tmpunlinked = TRUE;\n \theap_close(rdesc);\n \tRemoveFromTempRelList(rdesc);\n+ \tRelationForgetRelation(rdesc->rd_id);\n }\n \n \nIndex: src/backend/catalog/index.c\n===================================================================\nRCS file: /usr/local/cvsroot/pgsql/src/backend/catalog/index.c,v\nretrieving revision 1.41\ndiff -c -r1.41 index.c\n*** index.c\t1998/05/09 23:42:59\t1.41\n--- index.c\t1998/06/13 20:13:27\n***************\n*** 1270,1276 ****\n \twhile (tuple = heap_getnext(scan, 0, (Buffer *) NULL),\n \t\t HeapTupleIsValid(tuple))\n \t{\n- \n \t\theap_delete(catalogRelation, &tuple->t_ctid);\n \t}\n \theap_endscan(scan);\n--- 1270,1275 ----\n***************\n*** 1296,1307 ****\n \theap_close(catalogRelation);\n \n \t/*\n! \t * physically remove the file\n \t */\n \tif (FileNameUnlink(relpath(indexRelation->rd_rel->relname.data)) < 0)\n \t\telog(ERROR, \"amdestroyr: unlink: %m\");\n \n \tindex_close(indexRelation);\n }\n \n /* ----------------------------------------------------------------\n--- 1295,1309 ----\n \theap_close(catalogRelation);\n \n \t/*\n! \t * flush cache and physically remove the file\n \t */\n+ \tReleaseRelationBuffers(indexRelation);\n+ \n \tif (FileNameUnlink(relpath(indexRelation->rd_rel->relname.data)) < 0)\n \t\telog(ERROR, \"amdestroyr: unlink: %m\");\n \n \tindex_close(indexRelation);\n+ \tRelationForgetRelation(indexRelation->rd_id);\n }\n \n /* ----------------------------------------------------------------\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian | 830 Blythe Avenue\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026\n + If your life is a hard drive, | (610) 353-9879(w)\n + Christ can be your backup. | (610) 853-3000(h)\n","msg_date":"Sat, 13 Jun 1998 16:18:36 -0400 (EDT)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: [BUGS] NOTICE:AbortTransaction and not in in-progress state"},{"msg_contents":"Bruce Momjian wrote:\n> > Bruce Momjian wrote:\n> > > \n> > > > > QUERY: drop table test;\n> > > > > WARN:Relation test Does Not Exist!\n> > > > > QUERY: create table test (i int4);\n> > > > > QUERY: create index iindex on test using btree(i);\n> > > > > QUERY: begin;\n> > > > > QUERY: insert into test values (100);\n> > \n> > There will be dirty heap & index buffers in the pool after insertion ...\n> > \n> > > > > QUERY: select * from test;\n> > > > > i\n> > > > > ---\n> > > > > 100\n> > > > > (1 row)\n> > > > >\n> > > > > QUERY: rollback;\n> > \n> > They are still marked as dirty...\n> > \n> > > > > QUERY: drop table test;\n> > \n> > heap_destroy_with_catalog () calls ReleaseRelationBuffers:\n> > \n> > * this function unmarks all the dirty pages of a relation\n> > * in the buffer pool so that at the end of transaction\n> > * these pages will not be flushed.\n> > \n> > before unlinking relation, BUT index_destroy() unlinks index\n> > and DOESN'T call this func ...\n> > \n> > > > > NOTICE:AbortTransaction and not in in-progress state\n> > > > > NOTICE:AbortTransaction and not in in-progress state\n> > \n> > COMMIT (of drop table) tries to flush all dirty buffers\n> > from pool but there is no index file any more ...\n> > \n> > > ERROR: cannot write block 1 of iindex [test] blind\n> > \n> > smgrblindwrt () fails.\n> > \n> > > NOTICE: AbortTransaction and not in in-progress state\n> > > NOTICE: EndTransactionBlock and not inprogress/abort state\n> > \n> > ...transaction state is IN_COMMIT...\n> > \n> > Seems that ReleaseRelationBuffers() should be called by\n> > index_destroy() ... Note that heap_destroy() also calls\n> > \n> > /* ok - flush the relation from the relcache */\n> > RelationForgetRelation(rid);\n> > \n> > at the end...\n> > \n> > Vadim\n> > \n> \n> OK, the following patch fixes the problem. Vadim, I added both function\n> calls to index_destroy and made heap_destroy consistent with\n> heap_destroy_with_catalog.\n> \n> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n> \n> Index: src/backend/catalog/heap.c\n> ===================================================================\n> RCS file: /usr/local/cvsroot/pgsql/src/backend/catalog/heap.c,v\n> retrieving revision 1.48\n> diff -c -r1.48 heap.c\n> *** heap.c\t1998/04/27 04:04:47\t1.48\n> --- heap.c\t1998/06/13 20:13:18\n> ***************\n> *** 12,18 ****\n> * INTERFACE ROUTINES\n> *\t\theap_create()\t\t\t- Create an uncataloged heap relation\n> *\t\theap_create_with_catalog() - Create a cataloged relation\n> ! *\t\theap_destroy_with_catalog()\t\t\t- Removes named relation from catalogs\n> *\n> * NOTES\n> *\t this code taken from access/heap/create.c, which contains\n> --- 12,18 ----\n> * INTERFACE ROUTINES\n> *\t\theap_create()\t\t\t- Create an uncataloged heap relation\n> *\t\theap_create_with_catalog() - Create a cataloged relation\n> ! *\t\theap_destroy_with_catalog()\t- Removes named relation from catalogs\n> *\n> * NOTES\n> *\t this code taken from access/heap/create.c, which contains\n> ***************\n> *** 1290,1307 ****\n> \t * ----------------\n> \t */\n> \tif (rdesc->rd_rel->relhasindex)\n> - \t{\n> \t\tRelationRemoveIndexes(rdesc);\n> - \t}\n> \n> \t/* ----------------\n> \t *\tremove rules if necessary\n> \t * ----------------\n> \t */\n> \tif (rdesc->rd_rules != NULL)\n> - \t{\n> \t\tRelationRemoveRules(rid);\n> - \t}\n> \n> \t/* triggers */\n> \tif (rdesc->rd_rel->reltriggers > 0)\n> --- 1290,1303 ----\n> ***************\n> *** 1347,1355 ****\n> \t * ----------------\n> \t */\n> \tif (!(rdesc->rd_istemp) || !(rdesc->rd_tmpunlinked))\n> - \t{\n> \t\tsmgrunlink(DEFAULT_SMGR, rdesc);\n> ! \t}\n> \trdesc->rd_tmpunlinked = TRUE;\n> \n> \tRelationUnsetLockForWrite(rdesc);\n> --- 1343,1350 ----\n> \t * ----------------\n> \t */\n> \tif (!(rdesc->rd_istemp) || !(rdesc->rd_tmpunlinked))\n> \t\tsmgrunlink(DEFAULT_SMGR, rdesc);\n> ! \n> \trdesc->rd_tmpunlinked = TRUE;\n> \n> \tRelationUnsetLockForWrite(rdesc);\n> ***************\n> *** 1375,1380 ****\n> --- 1370,1376 ----\n> \trdesc->rd_tmpunlinked = TRUE;\n> \theap_close(rdesc);\n> \tRemoveFromTempRelList(rdesc);\n> + \tRelationForgetRelation(rdesc->rd_id);\n> }\n> \n> \n> Index: src/backend/catalog/index.c\n> ===================================================================\n> RCS file: /usr/local/cvsroot/pgsql/src/backend/catalog/index.c,v\n> retrieving revision 1.41\n> diff -c -r1.41 index.c\n> *** index.c\t1998/05/09 23:42:59\t1.41\n> --- index.c\t1998/06/13 20:13:27\n> ***************\n> *** 1270,1276 ****\n> \twhile (tuple = heap_getnext(scan, 0, (Buffer *) NULL),\n> \t\t HeapTupleIsValid(tuple))\n> \t{\n> - \n> \t\theap_delete(catalogRelation, &tuple->t_ctid);\n> \t}\n> \theap_endscan(scan);\n> --- 1270,1275 ----\n> ***************\n> *** 1296,1307 ****\n> \theap_close(catalogRelation);\n> \n> \t/*\n> ! \t * physically remove the file\n> \t */\n> \tif (FileNameUnlink(relpath(indexRelation->rd_rel->relname.data)) < 0)\n> \t\telog(ERROR, \"amdestroyr: unlink: %m\");\n> \n> \tindex_close(indexRelation);\n> }\n> \n> /* ----------------------------------------------------------------\n> --- 1295,1309 ----\n> \theap_close(catalogRelation);\n> \n> \t/*\n> ! \t * flush cache and physically remove the file\n> \t */\n> + \tReleaseRelationBuffers(indexRelation);\n> + \n> \tif (FileNameUnlink(relpath(indexRelation->rd_rel->relname.data)) < 0)\n> \t\telog(ERROR, \"amdestroyr: unlink: %m\");\n> \n> \tindex_close(indexRelation);\n> + \tRelationForgetRelation(indexRelation->rd_id);\n> }\n> \n> /* ----------------------------------------------------------------\n\n\nTwo comments:\n\n - I notice you getting rid of { } pairs eg:\n\n if (condition)\n {\n dosomething();\n }\n\n becomes\n\n if (condition)\n dosomething();\n\n Is this policy? I prefer to have the braces almost always as I find\n it easier to read, and less error prone if someone adds a statement or an\n else clause, so in most of my patches, I would tend to put braces in.\n If you are busy taking them out simaltaniously, this could get silly.\n\n Btw, I have been badly bit by:\n\n if (condition);\n dosomething();\n\n which turned out to be very hard to see indeed.\n\n\n - I think the bit at line 1295-1309 might want to do all the work before\n the elog. Otherwise the elog leave the buffer cache polluted with buffers\n belonging to a mostly deleted index. Eg:\n\n + ReleaseRelationBuffers(indexRelation);\n +\n fname = relpath(indexRelation->rd_rel->relname.data);\n\t status = FileNameUnlink(fname);\n\n index_close(indexRelation);\n + RelationForgetRelation(indexRelation->rd_id);\n\n if (status < 0)\n elog(ERROR, \"amdestroyr: unlink: %m\");\n\n-dg\n \nDavid Gould dg@illustra.com 510.628.3783 or 510.305.9468 \nInformix Software (No, really) 300 Lakeside Drive Oakland, CA 94612\n\"Don't worry about people stealing your ideas. If your ideas are any\n good, you'll have to ram them down people's throats.\" -- Howard Aiken\n\n","msg_date":"Sat, 13 Jun 1998 18:32:16 -0700 (PDT)","msg_from":"dg@illustra.com (David Gould)","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Re: [BUGS] NOTICE:AbortTransaction and not in\n\tin-progress state"},{"msg_contents":"> Two comments:\n> \n> - I notice you getting rid of { } pairs eg:\n> \n> if (condition)\n> {\n> dosomething();\n> }\n> \n> becomes\n> \n> if (condition)\n> dosomething();\n> \n> Is this policy? I prefer to have the braces almost always as I find\n> it easier to read, and less error prone if someone adds a statement or an\n> else clause, so in most of my patches, I would tend to put braces in.\n> If you are busy taking them out simaltaniously, this could get silly.\n\nI think several developers agreed that they were just wasting screen\nspace. The code is large enough without brace noise. I have considered\nwriting a script to remove the single-statement braces, but have not\ndone it yet.\n\nIf people would like to re-vote on this issue, I would be glad to hear\nabout it.\n\n> \n> Btw, I have been badly bit by:\n> \n> if (condition);\n> dosomething();\n> \n> which turned out to be very hard to see indeed.\n\nSure, but braces don't help you either. This is just as legal:\n\n\tif (condition);\n\t{\n\t\tdosomething();\n\t}\n\n\n> \n> \n> - I think the bit at line 1295-1309 might want to do all the work before\n> the elog. Otherwise the elog leave the buffer cache polluted with buffers\n> belonging to a mostly deleted index. Eg:\n> \n> + ReleaseRelationBuffers(indexRelation);\n> +\n> fname = relpath(indexRelation->rd_rel->relname.data);\n> \t status = FileNameUnlink(fname);\n> \n> index_close(indexRelation);\n> + RelationForgetRelation(indexRelation->rd_id);\n> \n> if (status < 0)\n> elog(ERROR, \"amdestroyr: unlink: %m\");\n\nYes, that is true, but I kept the order as used in the rest of the code,\nfiguring the original coder knew better than I do. IMHO, if we get that\n\"amdestroyr\" error, we have bigger problems than an invalid relation\ncache\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian | 830 Blythe Avenue\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026\n + If your life is a hard drive, | (610) 353-9879(w)\n + Christ can be your backup. | (610) 853-3000(h)\n","msg_date":"Sat, 13 Jun 1998 22:35:28 -0400 (EDT)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Re: [BUGS] NOTICE:AbortTransaction and not in\n\tin-progress state"},{"msg_contents":"> I think several developers agreed that they were just wasting screen\n> space. The code is large enough without brace noise. I have considered\n> writing a script to remove the single-statement braces, but have not\n> done it yet.\n> \n> If people would like to re-vote on this issue, I would be glad to hear\n> about it.\n\nOk, I won't add them. I'm not taking them out if I see them though ;-). \n\n> Sure, but braces don't help you either. This is just as legal:\n> \n> \tif (condition);\n> \t{\n> \t\tdosomething();\n> \t}\n\nTrue enough, but I think less likely to happen. \n\n> > - I think the bit at line 1295-1309 might want to do all the work before\n> > the elog. Otherwise the elog leave the buffer cache polluted with buffers\n> > belonging to a mostly deleted index. Eg:\n> > \n> > + ReleaseRelationBuffers(indexRelation);\n> > +\n> > fname = relpath(indexRelation->rd_rel->relname.data);\n> > \t status = FileNameUnlink(fname);\n> > \n> > index_close(indexRelation);\n> > + RelationForgetRelation(indexRelation->rd_id);\n> > \n> > if (status < 0)\n> > elog(ERROR, \"amdestroyr: unlink: %m\");\n> \n> Yes, that is true, but I kept the order as used in the rest of the code,\n> figuring the original coder knew better than I do. IMHO, if we get that\n> \"amdestroyr\" error, we have bigger problems than an invalid relation\n> cache\n\nWell, the code in heap.c calls smgrunlink() without checking the return code.\nsmgrunlink() calls mdunlink() which contains:\n\n if (FileNameUnlink(fname) < 0)\n return (SM_FAIL);\n\nSo heap_destroy does not even through an elog() at all if the FileNameUnlink()\nfails. I think this is actually the right policy since if FileNameUnlink()\nfails the only consequence is that a file is left on the disk (or maybe\nthe unlink failed because it was already gone). The system state (buffers etc)\nand catalogs are consitant with the heap having been destroyed. So not a\nproblem from the database's perspective. \n\nI suggest you change your patch to simply ignore the return code from\nFileNameUnlink(). As in:\n\n ReleaseRelationBuffers(indexRelation);\n\n (void) FileNameUnlink(relpath(indexRelation->rd_rel->relname.data));\n\n index_close(indexRelation);\n RelationForgetRelation(indexRelation->rd_id); \n\nIn this way it will have the same behaviour as heap_destroy...\n\n-dg\n\nDavid Gould dg@illustra.com 510.628.3783 or 510.305.9468\nInformix Software 300 Lakeside Drive Oakland, CA 94612\n - A child of five could understand this! Fetch me a child of five.\n","msg_date":"Sat, 13 Jun 1998 19:59:12 -0700 (PDT)","msg_from":"dg@illustra.com (David Gould)","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Re: [BUGS] NOTICE:AbortTransaction and not in\n\tin-progress state"},{"msg_contents":"\nI've been trying to use them in my patches as well, maily for\nconsistency as its something I'd never do myself. I'll gladly\nstop though.\n\nOn Sat, 13 June 1998, at 19:59:12, David Gould wrote:\n\n> Ok, I won't add them. I'm not taking them out if I see them though ;-). \n> \n> > Sure, but braces don't help you either. This is just as legal:\n> > \n> > \tif (condition);\n> > \t{\n> > \t\tdosomething();\n> > \t}\n> \n> True enough, but I think less likely to happen. \n","msg_date":"Sat, 13 Jun 1998 20:07:35 -0700 (PDT)","msg_from":"Brett McCormick <brett@work.chicken.org>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Re: [BUGS] NOTICE:AbortTransaction and not in\n\tin-progress state"},{"msg_contents":"Bruce Momjian wrote:\n> \n> Index: src/backend/catalog/heap.c\n> ===================================================================\n> ***************\n> *** 1375,1380 ****\n> --- 1370,1376 ----\n> rdesc->rd_tmpunlinked = TRUE;\n> heap_close(rdesc);\n> RemoveFromTempRelList(rdesc);\n> + RelationForgetRelation(rdesc->rd_id);\n\nWe need not in RelationForgetRelation() in heap_destroy().\nLocal relations are handled in other way...\n\nVadim\n","msg_date":"Sun, 14 Jun 1998 14:35:31 +0800","msg_from":"Vadim Mikheev <vadim@krs.ru>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Re: [BUGS] NOTICE:AbortTransaction and not in\n\tin-progress state"},{"msg_contents":"> Gentlemen:\n\tThe test of the Irix port of PostgreSQL running with default\noptimization passes all the regression tests the same as before\nexcept that the random number test is now different. The new output is\nincluded below. It appears to be OK, but I would like confirmation.\nThanks.\n\n=============================random.out=================================\n\nQUERY: SELECT count(*) FROM onek;\ncount\n-----\n 1000\n(1 row)\n\nQUERY: SELECT count(*) AS random INTO RANDOM_TBL\n FROM onek WHERE oidrand(onek.oid, 10);\nQUERY: INSERT INTO RANDOM_TBL (random)\n SELECT count(*)\n FROM onek WHERE oidrand(onek.oid, 10);\nQUERY: SELECT random, count(random) FROM RANDOM_TBL\n GROUP BY random HAVING count(random) > 1;\nrandom|count\n------+-----\n(0 rows)\n\nQUERY: SELECT random FROM RANDOM_TBL\n WHERE random NOT BETWEEN 80 AND 120;\nrandom\n------\n 74\n(1 row)\n\n+------------------------------------------+------------------------------+\n| Robert E. Bruccoleri, Ph.D. | Associate Research Professor |\n| phone: 732 235 5796 | Center for Advanced |\n| Fax: 732 235 4850 | Biotechnology and Medicine |\n| email: bruc@acm.org | Rutgers University |\n| URL: http://www.cabm.rutgers.edu/~bruc | 679 Hoes Lane |\n| | Piscataway, NJ 08854-5638 |\n+------------------------------------------+------------------------------+\n","msg_date":"Tue, 29 Sep 1998 11:01:35 -0400 (EDT)","msg_from":"Robert Bruccoleri <bruc@pluto.njcc.com>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: SGI Port of Postgresql 6.4 snapshot of 09/28/98"},{"msg_contents":"Thus spake darcy\n> > Here I assume user darcy has usesuper set in pg_shadow. Check\n> > and correct me if I'm wrong. The superuser flag is set if you\n> > allow darcy to create users on createuser time.\n> \n> Correct again. I half suspected something like this. Perhaps the\n> prompt in createuser should be changed to reflect that the user is\n> being granted full superuser privileges rather than just being able\n> to create more users.\n\nShould I send in the (trivial) diffs to effect this change? I figure\nto ask the following.\n\n \"Does user \"x\" have superuser privileges? (y/n)\"\n\n-- \nD'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy@{druid|vex}.net> | Democracy is three wolves\nhttp://www.druid.net/darcy/ | and a sheep voting on\n+1 416 424 2871 (DoD#0082) (eNTP) | what's for dinner.\n","msg_date":"Tue, 13 Oct 1998 13:13:02 -0400 (EDT)","msg_from":"darcy@druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Permissions not working?"},{"msg_contents":"> > I strongly suggest patching this before 6.5 ...\n>\n> No comment other that \"sorry\".\n\n Mark: Should I commit the fix on regress.sh?\n\n\nJan\n\n--\n\n#======================================================================#\n# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #\n# Let's break this rule - forgive me. #\n#========================================= wieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #\n\n\n","msg_date":"Mon, 14 Jun 1999 22:14:03 +0200 (MET DST)","msg_from":"wieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] regress.sh"},{"msg_contents":"Thus spake Bruce Momjian\n> If anyone was concerned about our bug database being visible and giving\n> the impression we don't fix any bugs, see this URL:\n> \n> \thttp://www.isthisthingon.org/nisca/postgres.html\n\nJeez, Louise. Talk about a blaming the tools because you don't know\nanything about database design. I mean, his biggest complaint is that\nPostgreSQL makes it hard (not impossible as he implies) to change the\nschema. Perhaps that is because it was written by GOOD database designers\nwho don't have to change their schema every other week and so that issue\nhasn't been a squeaky wheel.\n\nI can't believe that anyone important is listening to this guy.\n\n-- \nD'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy@{druid|vex}.net> | Democracy is three wolves\nhttp://www.druid.net/darcy/ | and a sheep voting on\n+1 416 425 1212 (DoD#0082) (eNTP) | what's for dinner.\n","msg_date":"Tue, 21 Aug 2001 07:24:57 -0400 (EDT)","msg_from":"darcy@druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: Link to bug webpage"},{"msg_contents":"Thus spake Bruce Momjian\n> > Unless someone has something they are sitting on, I'd like to wrap up a\n> > 7.2b2 this afternoon, and do a proper release announcement for it like\n> > didn't happen for 7.2b1 ...\n> \n> I have been working with Tom on some pgindent issues and have made\n> slight improvements to the script. Because we are early in beta and no\n> one has outstanding patches, I would like to run it again and commit the\n> changes. It should improve variables defined as structs and alignment\n> of include/catalog/*.h files.\n\nI have a change I would like to discuss. It doesn't change the code\nbase, only the build system. The patches I would like to commit follow\nthis text. The only thing it does is create a config option to bytecode\ncompile the Python modules. It also cleans up the install in the Makefile\na little bit.\n\nIndex: configure.in\n===================================================================\nRCS file: /cvsroot/pgsql/configure.in,v\nretrieving revision 1.150\ndiff -u -r1.150 configure.in\n--- configure.in\t2001/10/25 13:02:01\t1.150\n+++ configure.in\t2001/11/06 09:09:50\n@@ -398,6 +398,18 @@\n AC_MSG_RESULT([$with_python])\n AC_SUBST(with_python)\n \n+# If python is enabled (above), then optionally byte-compile the modules.\n+AC_MSG_CHECKING([whether to byte-compile Python modules])\n+if test \"$with_python\" = yes; then\n+ PGAC_ARG_BOOL(with, python_compile, no,\n+ [ --with-python-compile byte-compile modules if Python is enabled])\n+else\n+ with_python_compile=no\n+fi\n+AC_MSG_RESULT([$with_python_compile])\n+AC_SUBST([with_python_compile])\n+\n+\n #\n # Optionally build the Java/JDBC tools\n #\nIndex: src/Makefile.global.in\n===================================================================\nRCS file: /cvsroot/pgsql/src/Makefile.global.in,v\nretrieving revision 1.140\ndiff -u -r1.140 Makefile.global.in\n--- src/Makefile.global.in\t2001/10/13 15:24:23\t1.140\n+++ src/Makefile.global.in\t2001/11/06 09:09:54\n@@ -123,6 +123,7 @@\n with_java\t= @with_java@\n with_perl\t= @with_perl@\n with_python\t= @with_python@\n+with_python_compile\t= @with_python_compile@\n with_tcl\t= @with_tcl@\n with_tk\t\t= @with_tk@\n enable_odbc\t= @enable_odbc@\nIndex: src/interfaces/python/GNUmakefile\n===================================================================\nRCS file: /cvsroot/pgsql/src/interfaces/python/GNUmakefile,v\nretrieving revision 1.11\ndiff -u -r1.11 GNUmakefile\n--- src/interfaces/python/GNUmakefile\t2001/08/24 14:07:50\t1.11\n+++ src/interfaces/python/GNUmakefile\t2001/11/06 09:10:00\n@@ -19,10 +19,23 @@\n \n override CPPFLAGS := -I$(libpq_srcdir) $(CPPFLAGS) $(python_includespec)\n \n-all: all-lib\n+PY_SCRIPTS = pg.py pgdb.py\n+ifeq ($(with_python_compile), yes)\n+PY_COMPILED_SCRIPTS = $(PY_SCRIPTS:%.py=%.pyc) $(PY_SCRIPTS:%.py=%.pyo)\n+else\n+PY_COMPILED_SCRIPTS =\n+endif\n \n+all: all-lib $(PY_COMPILED_SCRIPTS)\n+\n all-lib: libpq-all\n \n+%.pyc: %.py\n+\tpython -c \"import py_compile; py_compile.compile(\\\"$<\\\")\"\n+\n+%.pyo: %.py\n+\tpython -O -c \"import py_compile; py_compile.compile(\\\"$<\\\")\"\n+\n .PHONY: libpq-all\n libpq-all:\n \t$(MAKE) -C $(libpq_builddir) all\n@@ -37,12 +50,11 @@\n \t@if test -w $(DESTDIR)$(python_moduleexecdir) && test -w $(DESTDIR)$(python_moduledir); then \\\n \t echo \"$(INSTALL_SHLIB) $(shlib) $(DESTDIR)$(python_moduleexecdir)/_pgmodule$(DLSUFFIX)\"; \\\n \t $(INSTALL_SHLIB) $(shlib) $(DESTDIR)$(python_moduleexecdir)/_pgmodule$(DLSUFFIX); \\\n-\t\\\n-\t echo \"$(INSTALL_DATA) $(srcdir)/pg.py $(DESTDIR)$(python_moduledir)/pg.py\"; \\\n-\t $(INSTALL_DATA) $(srcdir)/pg.py $(DESTDIR)$(python_moduledir)/pg.py; \\\n \t\\\n-\t echo \"$(INSTALL_DATA) $(srcdir)/pgdb.py $(DESTDIR)$(python_moduledir)/pgdb.py\"; \\\n-\t $(INSTALL_DATA) $(srcdir)/pgdb.py $(DESTDIR)$(python_moduledir)/pgdb.py; \\\n+\t for i in $(PY_SCRIPTS) $(PY_COMPILED_SCRIPTS); do \\\n+\t\techo $(INSTALL_DATA) $$i $(python_moduledir); \\\n+\t\t$(INSTALL_DATA) $$i $(python_moduledir); \\\n+\t done \\\n \telse \\\n \t $(install-warning-msg); \\\n \tfi\n\n-- \nD'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy@{druid|vex}.net> | Democracy is three wolves\nhttp://www.druid.net/darcy/ | and a sheep voting on\n+1 416 425 1212 (DoD#0082) (eNTP) | what's for dinner.\n","msg_date":"Tue, 6 Nov 2001 04:12:56 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"darcy@druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: Proposal: 7.2b2 today"},{"msg_contents":"\nOkay, I heard a 'yelp' from Tom concerning hte pgindent stuff, so I\nhaven't done beta2 up ... can someoen comment on this, as to whether we\ncan get it in, before I throw together beta2?\n\nTom ... are/were you okay with Bruce's last pgindent run?\n\n\n\nOn Tue, 6 Nov 2001, D'Arcy J.M. Cain wrote:\n\n> Thus spake Bruce Momjian\n> > > Unless someone has something they are sitting on, I'd like to wrap up a\n> > > 7.2b2 this afternoon, and do a proper release announcement for it like\n> > > didn't happen for 7.2b1 ...\n> >\n> > I have been working with Tom on some pgindent issues and have made\n> > slight improvements to the script. Because we are early in beta and no\n> > one has outstanding patches, I would like to run it again and commit the\n> > changes. It should improve variables defined as structs and alignment\n> > of include/catalog/*.h files.\n>\n> I have a change I would like to discuss. It doesn't change the code\n> base, only the build system. The patches I would like to commit follow\n> this text. The only thing it does is create a config option to bytecode\n> compile the Python modules. It also cleans up the install in the Makefile\n> a little bit.\n>\n> Index: configure.in\n> ===================================================================\n> RCS file: /cvsroot/pgsql/configure.in,v\n> retrieving revision 1.150\n> diff -u -r1.150 configure.in\n> --- configure.in\t2001/10/25 13:02:01\t1.150\n> +++ configure.in\t2001/11/06 09:09:50\n> @@ -398,6 +398,18 @@\n> AC_MSG_RESULT([$with_python])\n> AC_SUBST(with_python)\n>\n> +# If python is enabled (above), then optionally byte-compile the modules.\n> +AC_MSG_CHECKING([whether to byte-compile Python modules])\n> +if test \"$with_python\" = yes; then\n> + PGAC_ARG_BOOL(with, python_compile, no,\n> + [ --with-python-compile byte-compile modules if Python is enabled])\n> +else\n> + with_python_compile=no\n> +fi\n> +AC_MSG_RESULT([$with_python_compile])\n> +AC_SUBST([with_python_compile])\n> +\n> +\n> #\n> # Optionally build the Java/JDBC tools\n> #\n> Index: src/Makefile.global.in\n> ===================================================================\n> RCS file: /cvsroot/pgsql/src/Makefile.global.in,v\n> retrieving revision 1.140\n> diff -u -r1.140 Makefile.global.in\n> --- src/Makefile.global.in\t2001/10/13 15:24:23\t1.140\n> +++ src/Makefile.global.in\t2001/11/06 09:09:54\n> @@ -123,6 +123,7 @@\n> with_java\t= @with_java@\n> with_perl\t= @with_perl@\n> with_python\t= @with_python@\n> +with_python_compile\t= @with_python_compile@\n> with_tcl\t= @with_tcl@\n> with_tk\t\t= @with_tk@\n> enable_odbc\t= @enable_odbc@\n> Index: src/interfaces/python/GNUmakefile\n> ===================================================================\n> RCS file: /cvsroot/pgsql/src/interfaces/python/GNUmakefile,v\n> retrieving revision 1.11\n> diff -u -r1.11 GNUmakefile\n> --- src/interfaces/python/GNUmakefile\t2001/08/24 14:07:50\t1.11\n> +++ src/interfaces/python/GNUmakefile\t2001/11/06 09:10:00\n> @@ -19,10 +19,23 @@\n>\n> override CPPFLAGS := -I$(libpq_srcdir) $(CPPFLAGS) $(python_includespec)\n>\n> -all: all-lib\n> +PY_SCRIPTS = pg.py pgdb.py\n> +ifeq ($(with_python_compile), yes)\n> +PY_COMPILED_SCRIPTS = $(PY_SCRIPTS:%.py=%.pyc) $(PY_SCRIPTS:%.py=%.pyo)\n> +else\n> +PY_COMPILED_SCRIPTS =\n> +endif\n>\n> +all: all-lib $(PY_COMPILED_SCRIPTS)\n> +\n> all-lib: libpq-all\n>\n> +%.pyc: %.py\n> +\tpython -c \"import py_compile; py_compile.compile(\\\"$<\\\")\"\n> +\n> +%.pyo: %.py\n> +\tpython -O -c \"import py_compile; py_compile.compile(\\\"$<\\\")\"\n> +\n> .PHONY: libpq-all\n> libpq-all:\n> \t$(MAKE) -C $(libpq_builddir) all\n> @@ -37,12 +50,11 @@\n> \t@if test -w $(DESTDIR)$(python_moduleexecdir) && test -w $(DESTDIR)$(python_moduledir); then \\\n> \t echo \"$(INSTALL_SHLIB) $(shlib) $(DESTDIR)$(python_moduleexecdir)/_pgmodule$(DLSUFFIX)\"; \\\n> \t $(INSTALL_SHLIB) $(shlib) $(DESTDIR)$(python_moduleexecdir)/_pgmodule$(DLSUFFIX); \\\n> -\t\\\n> -\t echo \"$(INSTALL_DATA) $(srcdir)/pg.py $(DESTDIR)$(python_moduledir)/pg.py\"; \\\n> -\t $(INSTALL_DATA) $(srcdir)/pg.py $(DESTDIR)$(python_moduledir)/pg.py; \\\n> \t\\\n> -\t echo \"$(INSTALL_DATA) $(srcdir)/pgdb.py $(DESTDIR)$(python_moduledir)/pgdb.py\"; \\\n> -\t $(INSTALL_DATA) $(srcdir)/pgdb.py $(DESTDIR)$(python_moduledir)/pgdb.py; \\\n> +\t for i in $(PY_SCRIPTS) $(PY_COMPILED_SCRIPTS); do \\\n> +\t\techo $(INSTALL_DATA) $$i $(python_moduledir); \\\n> +\t\t$(INSTALL_DATA) $$i $(python_moduledir); \\\n> +\t done \\\n> \telse \\\n> \t $(install-warning-msg); \\\n> \tfi\n>\n> --\n> D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy@{druid|vex}.net> | Democracy is three wolves\n> http://www.druid.net/darcy/ | and a sheep voting on\n> +1 416 425 1212 (DoD#0082) (eNTP) | what's for dinner.\n>\n\n","msg_date":"Tue, 6 Nov 2001 08:07:14 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"\"Marc G. Fournier\" <scrappy@hub.org>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: Proposal: 7.2b2 today"},{"msg_contents":"> \n> Okay, I heard a 'yelp' from Tom concerning hte pgindent stuff, so I\n> haven't done beta2 up ... can someoen comment on this, as to whether we\n> can get it in, before I throw together beta2?\n> \n> Tom ... are/were you okay with Bruce's last pgindent run?\n\nI threw it up on a web site so people could review it. With no\nobjections, I think we are fine for beta2.\n\n-- \n Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us\n pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000\n + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue\n + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026\n","msg_date":"Tue, 6 Nov 2001 11:16:55 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: Proposal: 7.2b2 today"},{"msg_contents":">> Okay, I heard a 'yelp' from Tom concerning hte pgindent stuff, so I\n>> haven't done beta2 up ... can someoen comment on this, as to whether we\n>> can get it in, before I throw together beta2?\n\nI looked over the diffs, they seem okay.\n\nSince Thomas just committed a horology regress test fix, the regression\ntests are broken on platforms that use variant horology test files.\nGive me an hour to do something about that, and then we can roll beta2.\n\n\t\t\tregards, tom lane\n","msg_date":"Tue, 06 Nov 2001 12:07:07 -0500","msg_from":"Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: Proposal: 7.2b2 today "},{"msg_contents":"\nsounds cool to me ...\n\n\nOn Tue, 6 Nov 2001, Tom Lane wrote:\n\n> >> Okay, I heard a 'yelp' from Tom concerning hte pgindent stuff, so I\n> >> haven't done beta2 up ... can someoen comment on this, as to whether we\n> >> can get it in, before I throw together beta2?\n>\n> I looked over the diffs, they seem okay.\n>\n> Since Thomas just committed a horology regress test fix, the regression\n> tests are broken on platforms that use variant horology test files.\n> Give me an hour to do something about that, and then we can roll beta2.\n>\n> \t\t\tregards, tom lane\n>\n\n","msg_date":"Tue, 6 Nov 2001 12:07:51 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"\"Marc G. Fournier\" <scrappy@hub.org>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: Proposal: 7.2b2 today "},{"msg_contents":"> \n> sounds cool to me ...\n> \n\nI am sorry about my pgindent run. If I had realized it would hold up\nbeta for a day, I wouldn't have done it.\n\n-- \n Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us\n pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000\n + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue\n + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026\n","msg_date":"Tue, 6 Nov 2001 12:16:04 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: Proposal: 7.2b2 today"},{"msg_contents":"Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us> writes:\n> I am sorry about my pgindent run. If I had realized it would hold up\n> beta for a day, I wouldn't have done it.\n\nWell, we needed the regression fix anyway. Not a problem.\n\n\t\t\tregards, tom lane\n","msg_date":"Tue, 06 Nov 2001 12:29:45 -0500","msg_from":"Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: Proposal: 7.2b2 today "},{"msg_contents":"\nwhat about D'Arcy's python patch?\n\nOn Tue, 6 Nov 2001, Tom Lane wrote:\n\n> Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us> writes:\n> > I am sorry about my pgindent run. If I had realized it would hold up\n> > beta for a day, I wouldn't have done it.\n>\n> Well, we needed the regression fix anyway. Not a problem.\n>\n> \t\t\tregards, tom lane\n>\n\n","msg_date":"Tue, 6 Nov 2001 12:48:14 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"\"Marc G. Fournier\" <scrappy@hub.org>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: Proposal: 7.2b2 today "},{"msg_contents":"> \n> what about D'Arcy's python patch?\n\nI think it has to wait for review or 7.3.\n\n-- \n Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us\n pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000\n + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue\n + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026\n","msg_date":"Tue, 6 Nov 2001 12:49:19 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: Proposal: 7.2b2 today"},{"msg_contents":"> Since Thomas just committed a horology regress test fix, the regression\n> tests are broken on platforms that use variant horology test files.\n> Give me an hour to do something about that, and then we can roll beta2.\n\nDone --- we're good to go, I think.\n\n\t\t\tregards, tom lane\n","msg_date":"Tue, 06 Nov 2001 13:05:20 -0500","msg_from":"Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: Proposal: 7.2b2 today "},{"msg_contents":"> \n> what about D'Arcy's python patch?\n\nI will work up the Open Items list today and we can see what needs to be\nput into beta3, or rc1, or whatever. :-)\n\n-- \n Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us\n pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000\n + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue\n + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026\n","msg_date":"Tue, 6 Nov 2001 13:23:14 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: Proposal: 7.2b2 today"},{"msg_contents":"\nthe patch adds a --with-python switch to confiugure, and appropriate lines\nto the make files to compile it ... I would *like* to see it in beta2\nunless someone can see a glaring error in it that would cause us to have\nto delay beta2 ...\n\nits less then 50 lines ... cna you please take a quick peak at it adn\napply it if you don't see anything jump out at you?\n\nOn Tue, 6 Nov 2001, Bruce Momjian wrote:\n\n> >\n> > what about D'Arcy's python patch?\n>\n> I will work up the Open Items list today and we can see what needs to be\n> put into beta3, or rc1, or whatever. :-)\n>\n> --\n> Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us\n> pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000\n> + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue\n> + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026\n>\n\n","msg_date":"Tue, 6 Nov 2001 13:43:07 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"\"Marc G. Fournier\" <scrappy@hub.org>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: Proposal: 7.2b2 today"},{"msg_contents":"> \n> the patch adds a --with-python switch to confiugure, and appropriate lines\n> to the make files to compile it ... I would *like* to see it in beta2\n> unless someone can see a glaring error in it that would cause us to have\n> to delay beta2 ...\n> \n> its less then 50 lines ... cna you please take a quick peak at it adn\n> apply it if you don't see anything jump out at you?\n\nUnfortunately I don't understand configure.in well enough to have any\ncomment on the code. I recommend we make beta2 and give others time to\nreview it. If it is OK, we can add it later. We do have some other\nopen items like the Libpq signal handling and AIX compile so we are not\ndone applying things yet anyway.\n\n-- \n Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us\n pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000\n + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue\n + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026\n","msg_date":"Tue, 6 Nov 2001 14:22:48 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: Proposal: 7.2b2 today"},{"msg_contents":"\"Marc G. Fournier\" <scrappy@hub.org> writes:\n> what about D'Arcy's python patch?\n\nSince it's a configure/build thing, I'd want to see Peter E's reaction\nto it before making a decision. I'd not suggest holding up beta2 for\nit, anyway.\n\n\t\t\tregards, tom lane\n","msg_date":"Tue, 06 Nov 2001 14:29:22 -0500","msg_from":"Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: Proposal: 7.2b2 today "},{"msg_contents":"D'Arcy J.M. Cain writes:\n\n> I have a change I would like to discuss. It doesn't change the code\n> base, only the build system. The patches I would like to commit follow\n> this text. The only thing it does is create a config option to bytecode\n> compile the Python modules.\n\nWe've seen such a patch before, but I'm still not convinced it works.\nAccording to my knowledge, the pre-compiled bytecode files need to be\ncreated after the source files have been installed in their final\nlocation, because the file name and timestamp is encoded in the compiled\nfile (it's sort of used as a cache file). While this can be accomplished\nwith a different patch, it wouldn't really work when DESTDIR is used\nbecause you'd create a \"dead\" cache file. In a sense, this operation is\nlike running ldconfig -- it's outside the scope of the build system.\nPackage managers typically put it in the \"post install\" section.\n\n> +# If python is enabled (above), then optionally byte-compile the modules.\n> +AC_MSG_CHECKING([whether to byte-compile Python modules])\n> +if test \"$with_python\" = yes; then\n> + PGAC_ARG_BOOL(with, python_compile, no,\n> + [ --with-python-compile byte-compile modules if Python is enabled])\n\n--enable\n\n> +else\n> + with_python_compile=no\n> +fi\n> +AC_MSG_RESULT([$with_python_compile])\n> +AC_SUBST([with_python_compile])\n\n> +%.pyc: %.py\n> +\tpython -c \"import py_compile; py_compile.compile(\\\"$<\\\")\"\n> +\n> +%.pyo: %.py\n> +\tpython -O -c \"import py_compile; py_compile.compile(\\\"$<\\\")\"\n> +\n\n$(PYTHON)\n\n-- \nPeter Eisentraut peter_e@gmx.net\n\n","msg_date":"Wed, 7 Nov 2001 02:07:49 +0100 (CET)","msg_from":"Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: Proposal: 7.2b2 today"},{"msg_contents":"Thus spake Marc G. Fournier\n> the patch adds a --with-python switch to confiugure, and appropriate lines\n> to the make files to compile it ... I would *like* to see it in beta2\n> unless someone can see a glaring error in it that would cause us to have\n> to delay beta2 ...\n> \n> its less then 50 lines ... cna you please take a quick peak at it adn\n> apply it if you don't see anything jump out at you?\n\nI have one minor change to it. Where I call \"python\" to bytecode compile\nit should be \"$(PYTHON)\" instead. If you want I can just commit the\nchanges directly.\n\n-- \nD'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy@{druid|vex}.net> | Democracy is three wolves\nhttp://www.druid.net/darcy/ | and a sheep voting on\n+1 416 425 1212 (DoD#0082) (eNTP) | what's for dinner.\n","msg_date":"Wed, 7 Nov 2001 20:50:28 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"darcy@druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: Proposal: 7.2b2 today"},{"msg_contents":"* Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net> [011106 20:01]:\n> D'Arcy J.M. Cain writes:\n> > I have a change I would like to discuss. It doesn't change the code\n> > base, only the build system. The patches I would like to commit follow\n> > this text. The only thing it does is create a config option to bytecode\n> > compile the Python modules.\n> \n> We've seen such a patch before, but I'm still not convinced it works.\n> According to my knowledge, the pre-compiled bytecode files need to be\n> created after the source files have been installed in their final\n> location, because the file name and timestamp is encoded in the compiled\n> file (it's sort of used as a cache file). While this can be accomplished\n> with a different patch, it wouldn't really work when DESTDIR is used\n> because you'd create a \"dead\" cache file. In a sense, this operation is\n> like running ldconfig -- it's outside the scope of the build system.\n> Package managers typically put it in the \"post install\" section.\n\nDo you have a reference for this? I tried looking for one but the only\nthing I could find was http://www.python.org/doc/1.6/dist/built-dist.html\nwhich suggests to me that they can be compiled before shipping which of\ncourse certainly involves moving them. In any case NetBSD does this\npatch before building and everything works there.\n\n-- \nD'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy@{druid|vex}.net> | Democracy is three wolves\nhttp://www.druid.net/darcy/ | and a sheep voting on\n+1 416 425 1212 (DoD#0082) (eNTP) | what's for dinner.\n","msg_date":"Wed, 20 Mar 2002 13:25:43 -0500","msg_from":"\"D'Arcy J.M. Cain\" <darcy@druid.net>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: Proposal: 7.2b2 today"},{"msg_contents":"D'Arcy J.M. Cain writes:\n\n> Do you have a reference for this? I tried looking for one but the only\n> thing I could find was http://www.python.org/doc/1.6/dist/built-dist.html\n> which suggests to me that they can be compiled before shipping which of\n> course certainly involves moving them. In any case NetBSD does this\n> patch before building and everything works there.\n\nMy reference is Automake. They go out of their way to compile the Python\nfiles at the right time. We could use this as a model.\n\nIt's easy to determine that the time stamp appears to be encoded into the\ncompiled output file:\n\n$ cat test.py\nprint \"test\"\n$ python -c 'import py_compile; py_compile.compile(\"test.py\", \"test.pyc\")'\n$ md5sum test.pyc\na0e690271636fcbf067db628f9c7d0c3 test.pyc\n$ python -c 'import py_compile; py_compile.compile(\"test.py\", \"test.pyc\")'\n$ md5sum test.pyc\na0e690271636fcbf067db628f9c7d0c3 test.pyc\n$ touch test.py\n$ python -c 'import py_compile; py_compile.compile(\"test.py\", \"test.pyc\")'\n$ md5sum test.pyc\n1d78ae79994b102c89a14a2dd2addc55 test.pyc\n\nWhat you need to do is to create the compiled files after you have\ninstalled the original. Binary packaging probably preserves the time\nstamps of the files, so that shouldn't be a problem. I withdraw that part\nof the objection.\n\nAlso, I think if we add this feature, let's just make it the default and\nnot add another configure option for it.\n\n-- \nPeter Eisentraut peter_e@gmx.net\n\n","msg_date":"Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:47:59 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: Proposal: 7.2b2 today"},{"msg_contents":"> As far as I can tell, not capitalizing the first letter after a dash\n> is the only inconsistency with Oracle's implementation of this function.\n\nWrong again. Oracle also capitalizes the first letter after a comma, \nsemicolon, colon, period, and both a single and double quote. (And that's \nall I've tested so far.)\n\nSo, I guess I need to write a program to test all possible combinations\nto see how incompatible the function is.\n\nMaking this change will be a larger patch than I had initially anticipated.\n\nThat also brings into question whether this is really a bugfix or a\nspecification change, a question which is relevant since we're in the \nfeature freeze for 7.4.\n--\nMike Nolan \n","msg_date":"Wed, 9 Jul 2003 13:44:44 -0500 (CDT)","msg_from":"nolan@celery.tssi.com","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: initcap incompatibility issue"},{"msg_contents":"On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 nolan@celery.tssi.com wrote:\n\n> > As far as I can tell, not capitalizing the first letter after a dash\n> > is the only inconsistency with Oracle's implementation of this function.\n> \n> Wrong again. Oracle also capitalizes the first letter after a comma, \n> semicolon, colon, period, and both a single and double quote. (And that's \n> all I've tested so far.)\n> \n> So, I guess I need to write a program to test all possible combinations\n> to see how incompatible the function is.\n> \n> Making this change will be a larger patch than I had initially anticipated.\n> \n> That also brings into question whether this is really a bugfix or a\n> specification change, a question which is relevant since we're in the \n> feature freeze for 7.4.\n\nIt sounds like Oracle is simply regexing for anything that ISN'T a letter \nto initcap right after it. If that's the case, you could just regex too.\n\n","msg_date":"Wed, 9 Jul 2003 13:42:50 -0600 (MDT)","msg_from":"\"scott.marlowe\" <scott.marlowe@ihs.com>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: initcap incompatibility issue"},{"msg_contents":"\"scott.marlowe\" <scott.marlowe@ihs.com> writes:\n> On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 nolan@celery.tssi.com wrote:\n>> Wrong again. Oracle also capitalizes the first letter after a comma, \n>> semicolon, colon, period, and both a single and double quote. (And that's \n>> all I've tested so far.)\n\n> It sounds like Oracle is simply regexing for anything that ISN'T a letter \n> to initcap right after it. If that's the case, you could just regex too.\n\nOr more likely, use the appropriate ctype.h function (isalpha, probably).\n\n>> That also brings into question whether this is really a bugfix or a\n>> specification change, a question which is relevant since we're in the \n>> feature freeze for 7.4.\n\nAFAIK, our specification for this function is \"be like Oracle\", so it's\na bug fix and fair game for 7.4. Of course, the sooner you get it in\nthe more likely we'll see it that way ;-). Later in beta, only critical\nbugfixes will be accepted, and this one surely ain't very critical.\n\n\t\t\tregards, tom lane\n","msg_date":"Wed, 09 Jul 2003 22:31:19 -0400","msg_from":"Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: initcap incompatibility issue "},{"msg_contents":"> > It sounds like Oracle is simply regexing for anything that ISN'T a letter \n> > to initcap right after it. If that's the case, you could just regex too.\n> \n> Or more likely, use the appropriate ctype.h function (isalpha, probably).\n\nHaving tested it, Oracle capitalizes after all non-alphanumeric characters,\nso !isalnum() is the appropriate function. (That makes it a one-line \npatch on 7.3.3, which I've already tested.)\n\n> AFAIK, our specification for this function is \"be like Oracle\", so it's\n> a bug fix and fair game for 7.4. Of course, the sooner you get it in\n> the more likely we'll see it that way ;-). Later in beta, only critical\n> bugfixes will be accepted, and this one surely ain't very critical.\n\nNow if I can just get CVS working on Redhat 8 and remember how to build\na patch, even a one-liner. :-)\n--\nMike Nolan\n \n","msg_date":"Fri, 11 Jul 2003 01:34:48 -0500 (CDT)","msg_from":"nolan@celery.tssi.com","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: initcap incompatibility issue"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> \\n> I can't figure out how to properly do the the Var->sublevels_up search in the\\n> existing code, partly because I can't figure out what it is doing.\\n> \\n> It will take me a few days more to do it. I just can't look at the code\\n> anymore.\\n\\nOK, I think I have a handle on it now. Should be two days.\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 20 Jan 1998 01:55:43 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: Var->sublevels_up\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Bruce Momjian wrote:\\n> \\n> >\\n> > I can't figure out how to properly do the the Var->sublevels_up search in the\\n> > existing code, partly because I can't figure out what it is doing.\\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\\nIt says what range table should be used to find Var' relation.\\n\\n> >\\n> > It will take me a few days more to do it. I just can't look at the code\\n> > anymore.\\n> \\n> OK, I think I have a handle on it now. Should be two days.\\n\\nOk.\\n\\nVadim\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 20 Jan 1998 14:11:43 +0700\",\n \"msg_from\": \"\\\"Vadim B. Mikheev\\\" <vadim@sable.krasnoyarsk.su>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: Var->sublevels_up\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> \\n> Bruce Momjian wrote:\\n> > \\n> > >\\n> > > I can't figure out how to properly do the the Var->sublevels_up search in the\\n> > > existing code, partly because I can't figure out what it is doing.\\n> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\\n> It says what range table should be used to find Var' relation.\\n\\nMy problem was the ParseFunc really does much more than handle\\nfunctions. It handles:\\n\\n\\tcolname\\n\\trel.colname\\n\\trel.colname.func\\n\\tsum(colname)\\n\\tsum(rel.colname)\\n\\t\\nand probably much more than that.\\n\\n> \\n> > >\\n> > > It will take me a few days more to do it. I just can't look at the code\\n> > > anymore.\\n> > \\n> > OK, I think I have a handle on it now. Should be two days.\\n> \\n> Ok.\\n> \\n> Vadim\\n> \\n> \\n\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:42:12 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Re: Var->sublevels_up\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> \\n> Can someone figure out why atttypmod for system relations is not always\\n> zero? Sometimes it is -1 and other times it is 1, and I can't figure\\n> out why.\\n\\nI found the problem. You will have to initdb to see the fix.\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Thu, 5 Feb 1998 14:00:53 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: atttypmod is wrong in system catalogs\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> \\n> > > CREATED relation pg_description with OID 17847\\n> > > Commit End\\n> > Amopen: relation pg_description. attrsize 63\\n> > create attribute 0 name objoid len 4 num 1 type 26\\n> > create attribute 1 name description len -1 num 2 type 25\\n> > > Amclose: relation (null).\\n> > > initdb: could not create template database\\n> > initdb: cleaning up by wiping out /usr/local/pgsql/data/base/template1\\n> > \\n> > Installing the \\\"#define long int\\\" gives about 40 pages of errors.\\n\\nI saw this in hsearch.h:\\n\\t\\n\\ttypedef struct element\\n\\t{\\n\\t unsigned long next; /* secret from user */\\n\\t long key;\\n\\t} ELEMENT;\\n\\t \\n\\ttypedef unsigned long BUCKET_INDEX;\\n\\nI wonder is this is the problem. Should then be ints. It would be\\ngreat if you could read the hash value going in for mkoidname function,\\nand then see if the same key is being used for the lookup. Perhaps some\\nelog(NOTICE) lines near the hash function would tell you this. \\n\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:39:50 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] PostGreSQL v6.2.1 for Linux Alpha\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> Yes, the threading topic has come up before, and I have never considered\\n> it a big win. We want to remove the exec() from the startup, so we just\\n> do a fork. Will save 0.001 seconds of startup.\\n> \\n> That is a very easy win for us. I hadn't considered the synchonization\\n> problems with palloc/pfree, and that could be a real problem.\\n\\nI was wrong here. Removing exec() will save 0.01 seconds, not 0.001\\nseconds. Typical backend startup and a single query is 0.08 seconds. \\nRemoval of exec() will take this down to 0.07 seconds.\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian | 830 Blythe Avenue\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026\\n + If your life is a hard drive, | (610) 353-9879(w)\\n + Christ can be your backup. | (610) 853-3000(h)\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Fri, 13 Mar 1998 09:49:01 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Re: [QUESTIONS] Does Storage Manager support >2GB\\n\\ttables?\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> OK, I have the artist_fti table with 4.5 million rows, with an index\\n> artist_fti_idx on artist_fti.string. I don't have a 'product' table\\n> because I don't have the disk space, but that is not really a problem\\n> for testing. \\n> \\n> I used the product table to populate the artits_fti, then deleted the\\n> table so I could create the artist_fti_idx index. Single table, no\\n> join.\\n> \\n> I am running on BSD/OS 3.1 PP200 with SCSI Ultra Barracuda disks.\\n> \\n> I am seeing the same thing you are. 'lling' and 'tones' take 11-22\\n> seconds on the first few runs, then return almost immediately. If I do\\n> another query and come back to the first one, I have the same slowness,\\n> with the disk light being on almost constantly. Certain queries seem to\\n> lend themselves to speeding up, while 'rol' never seems to get really\\n> fast.\\n> \\n> I have to conclude that because of the way this table is created by\\n> slicing words, its layout is almost random. The table is 272MB, and\\n> with 8k/page, that is 34,000 pages. If we are going for 2,500 rows,\\n> odds are that each row is in a separate page. So, to do the query, we\\n> are retrieving 2,500 8k pages, or 20MB of random data on the disk. How\\n> long does it take to issue 2,500 disk requests that are scattered all\\n> over the disk. Probably 11-22 seconds.\\n> \\n> My OS only lets me have 400 8k buffers, or 3.2MB of buffer. As we are\\n> transferring 2,500 8k pages or 20MB of data, it is no surprise that the\\n> buffer cache doesn't help much. Sometime, the data is grouped together\\n> on the disk, and that is why some are fast, but often they are not, and\\n> certainly in a situation where you are looking for two words to appear\\n> on the same row, they certainly are not on adjacent pages.\\n> \\n> Just started running CLUSTER, and it appears to be taking forever. Does\\n> not seem to be using the disk, but a lot of CPU. It appears to be\\n> caught in an endless loop.\\n\\nOK, I have an answer for you.\\n\\nFirst, the CLUSTER problem I was having was some fluke, probably\\nsomething else that got stuck somewhere. Not a bug.\\n\\nSecond, CLUSTER takes forever because it is moving all over the disk\\nretrieving each row in order.\\n\\nThird, I should have been able to solve this for you sooner. The issues\\nof slowness you are seeing are the exact issues I dealt with five years\\nago when I designed this fragmentation system. I was so excited that\\nyou could develop triggers to slice the words, I had forgotten the other\\nissues.\\n\\nOK, it is. As part of this fragmentation job, EVERY NIGHT, I re-slice\\nthe user strings and dump them into a flat file. I then load them into\\nIngres as a heap table, then modify the table to ISAM.\\n\\nYou may say, why every night. Well, the problem is I load the data at\\n100% fill-factor, and ISAM rapidly becomes fragmented with\\ninsertions/deletions.\\n\\nBtree does not become fragmented, but the problem there is that btree\\nuse was very slow. I believe this is because ISAM is basically a SORTED\\nHEAP with an index, so everything is close and packed tight. Btree\\ndoesn't seem to do that as well. It is more spread out.\\n\\nUsers complain about the nightly re-index, but I tell them, 'Hey, you\\nare searching for fragments of words in 200k entries in 6 seconds. I can\\ndesign it without the night job, but your searches all day will take\\nmuch longer.\\\" That stops the conversation.\\n\\nSo, to your solution. CLUSTER is too slow. The disk is going crazy\\nmoving single rows into the temp table. I recommend doing a COPY of\\nartist_fti to a flat file, doing a Unix 'sort' on the flat file, then\\nre-loading the data into the artist_fti, and then putting the index on\\nthe table and vacuum.\\n\\nI have done this, and now all searches are instantaneous THE FIRST TIME\\nand every time.\\n\\nWith this change, I am anxious to hear how fast you can now do your\\nmulti-word searches. Daily changes will not really impact performance\\nbecause they are a small part of the total search, but this process of\\nCOPY/sort/reload/reindex will need to be done on a regular basis to\\nmaintain performance.\\n\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian | 830 Blythe Avenue\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026\\n + If your life is a hard drive, | (610) 353-9879(w)\\n + Christ can be your backup. | (610) 853-3000(h)\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sat, 14 Mar 1998 01:27:33 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: indexing words slow\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> Second, CLUSTER takes forever because it is moving all over the disk\\n> retrieving each row in order.\\n> \\n\\n> So, to your solution. CLUSTER is too slow. The disk is going crazy\\n> moving single rows into the temp table. I recommend doing a COPY of\\n> artist_fti to a flat file, doing a Unix 'sort' on the flat file, then\\n> re-loading the data into the artist_fti, and then putting the index on\\n> the table and vacuum.\\n> \\n> I have done this, and now all searches are instantaneous THE FIRST TIME\\n> and every time.\\n> \\n> With this change, I am anxious to hear how fast you can now do your\\n> multi-word searches. Daily changes will not really impact performance\\n> because they are a small part of the total search, but this process of\\n> COPY/sort/reload/reindex will need to be done on a regular basis to\\n> maintain performance.\\n\\nOne more piece of good news. The reason CLUSTER was so slow is because\\nyou loaded massive unordered amounts of data into the system. Once you\\ndo the COPY out/reload, subsequent clusters will run very quickly,\\nbecause 99% of the data is already ordered. Only the new/changed data\\nis unordered, so you should be able to rapidly run CLUSTER from then on\\nto keep good performance.\\n\\nI think a user module allowing this word fragment searching will be a\\nbig hit with users.\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian | 830 Blythe Avenue\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026\\n + If your life is a hard drive, | (610) 353-9879(w)\\n + Christ can be your backup. | (610) 853-3000(h)\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sat, 14 Mar 1998 01:40:12 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Re: indexing words slow\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Here is a general comments on maintaining the FAQ, and pointing people\\nto answers.\\n\\nFirst, the FAQ is a pretty weird way to give people information. It is\\nan almost random list of questions and answers. If the list is long,\\npeople can get very impatient, and start skimming over the list. That\\nis OK, as long as they can find the information when they need it. \\nUnfortunately, because it is in random order, it makes things very hard\\nto find.\\n\\nOK, my strategy. Let me give you two examples. People get deadlocks\\nquite often, usually novice SQL users. We need to explain to them what\\nthey have done so they can re-design their queries to avoid it. I could\\nhave put it in the FAQ, but it really belongs in the LOCK manual page. \\nSo I put it in the lock manual page, and added a mention in the\\n'deadlock' error message to look at the 'lock' manual page for a\\ndescription of the problem. This is perfect, because as soon as they\\nget the error, they are pointed to the proper place that has the exact\\nanswer they need. Same with the new postmaster -i option. By putting a\\nmention in the libpq connect failure message to look for postmaster -i,\\npeople are pointed right to the problem.\\n\\nThis has cut down on the problem reports tremendously. I think\\ncommercial software doesn't do very good in this area, probably because\\nthe support people are not the same as the developers. Because we are\\nthe same people, we think of these things.\\n\\nSecond, if an FAQ issue is described in the manual pages or docs, I\\npoint them to those, rather than re-iterating a long description of the\\nproblem. I have tried to move as much as possible OUT of the FAQ, and\\ninto the well-structured manual pages or error message. This leaves\\nreal FAQ items on the FAQ, things that really don't fit in a manual page\\nor are too general to fit anywhere else.\\n\\nI must say that people usually have been reading the FAQ, because we\\nrarely get a question that is answered on the FAQ.\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian | 830 Blythe Avenue\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026\\n + If your life is a hard drive, | (610) 353-9879(w)\\n + Christ can be your backup. | (610) 853-3000(h)\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sat, 18 Apr 1998 22:50:17 -0400 (EDT)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [DOCS] FAQ organization\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"On Sat, 18 Apr 1998, Bruce Momjian wrote:\\n\\n> Here is a general comments on maintaining the FAQ, and pointing people\\n> to answers.\\n> \\n> First, the FAQ is a pretty weird way to give people information. It is\\n> an almost random list of questions and answers. If the list is long,\\n> people can get very impatient, and start skimming over the list. That\\n> is OK, as long as they can find the information when they need it. \\n> Unfortunately, because it is in random order, it makes things very hard\\n> to find.\\n\\nWell, this is why we need to structure it, so that it is _not_ a long\\nunsorted list of questions, and trying to group questions that look alike.\\n\\n> OK, my strategy. Let me give you two examples. People get deadlocks\\n> quite often, usually novice SQL users. We need to explain to them what\\n> they have done so they can re-design their queries to avoid it. I could\\n> have put it in the FAQ, but it really belongs in the LOCK manual page. \\n> So I put it in the lock manual page, and added a mention in the\\n> 'deadlock' error message to look at the 'lock' manual page for a\\n> description of the problem. This is perfect, because as soon as they\\n> get the error, they are pointed to the proper place that has the exact\\n> answer they need. Same with the new postmaster -i option. By putting a\\n> mention in the libpq connect failure message to look for postmaster -i,\\n> people are pointed right to the problem.\\n\\nWell, I understand what you want. Sure, the right solution for the FAQ\\nwould be to give pointers to the manual pages. But sometimes it is not\\nsufficient. Sometimes, people have problems and have no idea where they\\ncome from, they don't know where to look at, and what they should look at.\\nSometimes there are more than one suitable way of solving a problem, since\\nsimilar problems can sometimes be best resolved by completely different\\nsolutions, which are spread over the docs. There, the FAQ can be : \\\"you've\\ngot this kind of problems, you can solve it by doing that, or that, or\\nthat. Look here, there, and there for details\\\". \\n\\nSometimes, it's better not to wait for people to get the error messages.\\nAs a software user, I often read quickly through the FAQs to look at\\ncommon errors people do, so that, even before I start using the software,\\nI have a vague idea of what I should not do. So, people dealing with\\nconcurrent access/update have a chance to be said : \\\"Beware! You should\\nlook at the LOCK man page / `Concurrent access under Postgres' user manual\\nsection if you feel you might have deadlock problems\\\". Or to people using\\nJDBC, \\\"don't forget to use the -i flag !\\\", instead of waiting for them to\\npanic because it doesn't work the way it should.\\n\\n> This has cut down on the problem reports tremendously. I think\\n> commercial software doesn't do very good in this area, probably because\\n> the support people are not the same as the developers. Because we are\\n> the same people, we think of these things.\\n\\nWell, actually, I've always found commercial software support docs - when\\nthere are any - to be much worse that support files in free software :)\\nEspecially the \\\"troubleshooting\\\" section, where they often consider 1. you\\nare dumb, and forgot to power on the computer 2. the software never fails,\\nso they don't describe at all the error code -3257.\\n\\n> Second, if an FAQ issue is described in the manual pages or docs, I\\n> point them to those, rather than re-iterating a long description of the\\n> problem. I have tried to move as much as possible OUT of the FAQ, and\\n> into the well-structured manual pages or error message. This leaves\\n> real FAQ items on the FAQ, things that really don't fit in a manual page\\n> or are too general to fit anywhere else.\\n\\nWell, the FAQ shouldn't re-say things in detail when they can be found\\nsomewhere else. But sometimes, you have to explain the same things\\ndifferently because the problem doesn't direct people necessarily to the\\nright page, or maybe they should find it by themselves, but they don't,\\nbecause they are not familiar with the structure of the software or of the\\nsupport documentations.\\n\\nTaking your example of the -i option : often people which have problems\\nconcerning this don't even realize their problem comes from not allowing\\nthe postmaster to listen to TCP/IP ports... they think JDBC, or perl\\ninterface, or postgres itself, are not working, and the symptoms can be\\nquite different. You have to tell them the cause of their problem, and\\nwhere to look, and if you can provide a quick fix without obliging them to\\ndig in the docs, it can be only better.\\n\\nAnother example : constraints, foreign keys (I know the man pages will be\\nupdated :) ). People ask questions like : \\\"I did this which should work,\\nand it doesn't work in Postgres!\\\". If they read the CREATE TABLE man page,\\nthey would have the answer. But somehow there are people who, even after\\nreading the man page, won't see what's wrong. So the FAQ may be the\\nsolution to their problem, saying quickly : \\\"You cannot specify\\nconstraints this way, do them that way (quick example). Read the CREATE\\nTABLE, CREATE INDEX man pages\\\".\\n\\nHmm... actually, for this specific example, we could do a FAQ like this :\\n\\nQxx.xx : I tried to enter this SQL command as I used to in (MySQL,\\nInformix, ORACLE), and it doesn't work. Why ?\\n\\nA : Every DBMS has some particularities in its SQL syntax. Please refer to\\nthe Postgres man pages to see what syntax the Postgres parser follows.\\n\\netc...\\n\\nand maybe some other questions, answering special cases where it is not so\\nevident... (we don't do subselects in target ?).\\n\\n> I must say that people usually have been reading the FAQ, because we\\n> rarely get a question that is answered on the FAQ.\\n\\nSo by collecting questions on the mailing list, we can see what answers\\nthe FAQ does not provide yet :)\\n\\nAnyway, I think it's important for the FAQ to redirect people to the right\\nsections of the different manuals, but if you can have quick fixes, maybe\\ngive them in the answer itself (\\\"did you use the -i flag on the command\\nline ?\\\").\\n\\nIt is better to say it twice, if it can help people solve their problem\\nfaster, though answers _must_ stay short (or else they deserve to have a\\nspecial section in the main docs and a pointer to it :) ).\\n\\nDo I seem reasonable ??\\n\\nPatrice\\n\\n--\\nPatrice H�D� --------------------------------- patrice@idf.net -----\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sun, 19 Apr 1998 18:23:41 +0200 (MET DST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Patrice_H=E9d=E9?= <patrice@idf.net>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [DOCS] FAQ organization\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> So by collecting questions on the mailing list, we can see what answers\\n> the FAQ does not provide yet :)\\n> \\n> Anyway, I think it's important for the FAQ to redirect people to the right\\n> sections of the different manuals, but if you can have quick fixes, maybe\\n> give them in the answer itself (\\\"did you use the -i flag on the command\\n> line ?\\\").\\n> \\n> It is better to say it twice, if it can help people solve their problem\\n> faster, though answers _must_ stay short (or else they deserve to have a\\n> special section in the main docs and a pointer to it :) ).\\n> \\n> Do I seem reasonable ??\\n\\nI agree 100% with everything you said. I just wanted to mention that if\\nyou find frequent questions that should addressed in the manual\\npages/docs, or error messages, please let us know so we can add them\\nthere too. I am sure there are many that I have missed.\\n\\nI have taken a minimalist approach to the FAQ, partially because I have\\nnot concentrated on it. I am looking forward to a better, more\\ncomprehensive FAQ. I have been particularly lacking in adding FAQ items\\nfor novice questions.\\n\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian | 830 Blythe Avenue\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026\\n + If your life is a hard drive, | (610) 353-9879(w)\\n + Christ can be your backup. | (610) 853-3000(h)\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 20 Apr 1998 13:50:23 -0400 (EDT)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [DOCS] FAQ organization\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"On Mon, 20 Apr 1998, Bruce Momjian wrote:\\n\\n> I agree 100% with everything you said. I just wanted to mention that if\\n> you find frequent questions that should addressed in the manual\\n> pages/docs, or error messages, please let us know so we can add them\\n> there too. I am sure there are many that I have missed.\\n\\nOk. I'll do it in two steps : first, SGMLize the FAQ and adding entries,\\nthen look at it and say \\\"this should go here, that should move there,\\netc...\\\" in coordination with Tom and all the docs-enthousiasts :)\\n\\n> I have taken a minimalist approach to the FAQ, partially because I have\\n> not concentrated on it. I am looking forward to a better, more\\n> comprehensive FAQ. I have been particularly lacking in adding FAQ items\\n> for novice questions.\\n\\nWell, you have so much to do besides the FAQ. As I don't do any coding,\\nI'll be able to focus on docs, and especially the FAQ. I still wonder how\\nyou all are able to find the time to code, debug, document, and still\\nkeeping answering people on the mailing list and all ! :) \\n\\nPatrice\\n\\n--\\nPatrice H�D� --------------------------------- patrice@idf.net -----\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 21 Apr 1998 12:33:33 +0200 (MET DST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Patrice_H=E9d=E9?= <patrice@idf.net>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [DOCS] FAQ organization\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> > I have taken a minimalist approach to the FAQ, partially because I have\\n> > not concentrated on it. I am looking forward to a better, more\\n> > comprehensive FAQ. I have been particularly lacking in adding FAQ items\\n> > for novice questions.\\n> \\n> Well, you have so much to do besides the FAQ. As I don't do any coding,\\n> I'll be able to focus on docs, and especially the FAQ. I still wonder how\\n> you all are able to find the time to code, debug, document, and still\\n> keeping answering people on the mailing list and all ! :) \\n\\nI only spend about 2-3 days a month coding. The rest is just little\\ntweaking.\\n\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian | 830 Blythe Avenue\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026\\n + If your life is a hard drive, | (610) 353-9879(w)\\n + Christ can be your backup. | (610) 853-3000(h)\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 21 Apr 1998 12:43:40 -0400 (EDT)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [DOCS] FAQ organization\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> This exec() takes 15% of our startup time. I have wanted it removed for\\n> many releases now. The only problem is to rip out the code that\\n> re-attached to shared memory and stuff like that, because you will no\\n> longer loose the shared memory in the exec(). The IPC code is\\n> complicated, so good luck. I or others can help if you get stuck.\\n> \\n\\nAnother item is to no longer use SYSV shared memory but use\\nmmap(MAP_ANON) because this allows a much larger amount of shared memory\\nto be used.\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian | 830 Blythe Avenue\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026\\n + If your life is a hard drive, | (610) 353-9879(w)\\n + Christ can be your backup. | (610) 853-3000(h)\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Wed, 29 Apr 1998 21:53:36 -0400 (EDT)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] removing the exec() from doexec()\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"On Wed, 29 April 1998, at 21:53:36, Bruce Momjian wrote:\\n\\n> > This exec() takes 15% of our startup time. I have wanted it removed for\\n> > many releases now. The only problem is to rip out the code that\\n> > re-attached to shared memory and stuff like that, because you will no\\n> > longer loose the shared memory in the exec(). The IPC code is\\n> > complicated, so good luck. I or others can help if you get stuck.\\n> > \\n> \\n> Another item is to no longer use SYSV shared memory but use\\n> mmap(MAP_ANON) because this allows a much larger amount of shared memory\\n> to be used.\\n\\nWhat are the portability issues? I haven't written much portable\\ncode, and certainly not with IPC.\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Wed, 29 Apr 1998 19:01:01 -0700 (PDT)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Brett McCormick <brett@work.chicken.org>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] removing the exec() from doexec()\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> \\n> On Wed, 29 April 1998, at 21:53:36, Bruce Momjian wrote:\\n> \\n> > > This exec() takes 15% of our startup time. I have wanted it removed for\\n> > > many releases now. The only problem is to rip out the code that\\n> > > re-attached to shared memory and stuff like that, because you will no\\n> > > longer loose the shared memory in the exec(). The IPC code is\\n> > > complicated, so good luck. I or others can help if you get stuck.\\n> > > \\n> > \\n> > Another item is to no longer use SYSV shared memory but use\\n> > mmap(MAP_ANON) because this allows a much larger amount of shared memory\\n> > to be used.\\n> \\n> What are the portability issues? I haven't written much portable\\n> code, and certainly not with IPC.\\n\\nNot sure. mmap() is pretty portable. We will shake out any portability\\nissues as we go, or you can ask the list if everyone has such-and-such a\\nfunction.\\n\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian | 830 Blythe Avenue\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026\\n + If your life is a hard drive, | (610) 353-9879(w)\\n + Christ can be your backup. | (610) 853-3000(h)\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Wed, 29 Apr 1998 22:05:41 -0400 (EDT)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] removing the exec() from doexec()\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> \\n> Quick note... Just to say that I found a bug in postgres 6.3.2 that I just this\\n> minute downloaded from the ftp site... It doesn't compile under AIX 4.2.1 with\\n> the latest C for AIX ver 3.1.4\\n> \\n> It's only aminor problem, some of the variables in pqcomm.c are declared as\\n> int, and being passed to functions that expect a long * variable (Actually the\\n> function paramaters are declared as size_t).\\n> \\n> The fix is to change the addrlen variable used on line 673 to a size_t instead\\n> of an int, and also for the len variable used on line 787.\\n> \\n> Sorry... No diffs... No time, and I dont' subscribe to the list... I just like\\n> postgres (Maybe I'll subscribe one day... Too busy at the moment).\\n\\nThe line you are complaining about is:\\n\\n if ((port->sock = accept(server_fd,\\n (struct sockaddr *) & port->raddr,\\n &addrlen)) < 0)\\n\\nwhile BSDI has accept defined as:\\n\\n\\tint accept(int s, struct sockaddr *addr, int *addrlen);\\n\\nSo AIX has the last parameter defined as size_t, huh? I looked at the\\naccept manual page, and addrlen is the length of the addr field. Hard\\nto imagine that is ever going to be larger than an int. Does any other\\nOS have that third parameter as anything but an int*?\\n\\nWe may need to add some aix-specific check on a configure check for\\nthis.\\n\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian | 830 Blythe Avenue\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026\\n + If your life is a hard drive, | (610) 353-9879(w)\\n + Christ can be your backup. | (610) 853-3000(h)\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Fri, 22 May 1998 00:33:50 -0400 (EDT)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Bug in postgresql-6.3.2\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> The line you are complaining about is:\\n> \\n> if ((port->sock = accept(server_fd,\\n> (struct sockaddr *) & port->raddr,\\n> &addrlen)) < 0)\\n> \\n> while BSDI has accept defined as:\\n> \\n> \\tint accept(int s, struct sockaddr *addr, int *addrlen);\\n> \\n> So AIX has the last parameter defined as size_t, huh? I looked at the\\n> accept manual page, and addrlen is the length of the addr field. Hard\\n> to imagine that is ever going to be larger than an int. Does any other\\n> OS have that third parameter as anything but an int*?\\n> \\n> We may need to add some aix-specific check on a configure check for\\n> this.\\n\\n>From aix 4.1 to 4.2, it changed from an int* to an unsigned long*, which\\nis probably what size_t is defined as.\\n\\nWasn't just accept() though. There were other socket functions, but I\\ndon't recall the names offhand. Not around aix anymore either... :)\\n\\nCheck thru the questions digests. I helped a couple of people compile\\npast this glitch, latest being Jim Kraii I believe.\\n\\ndarrenk\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Fri, 22 May 1998 01:27:41 -0400\",\n \"msg_from\": \"\\\"Stupor Genius\\\" <stuporg@erols.com>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"RE: [HACKERS] Bug in postgresql-6.3.2\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> \\n> > Please enter a FULL description of your problem:\\n> > ------------------------------------------------\\n> > Dropping table after aborting a transanction makes PosgresSQL unsable.\\n> > \\n> > \\n> > Please describe a way to repeat the problem. Please try to provide a\\n> > concise reproducible example, if at all possible: \\n> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------\\n> > [srashd]t-ishii{67} psql -e test < b\\n> > QUERY: drop table test;\\n> > WARN:Relation test Does Not Exist!\\n> > QUERY: create table test (i int4);\\n> > QUERY: create index iindex on test using btree(i);\\n> > QUERY: begin;\\n> > QUERY: insert into test values (100);\\n> > QUERY: select * from test;\\n> > i\\n> > ---\\n> > 100\\n> > (1 row)\\n> > \\n> > QUERY: rollback;\\n> > QUERY: drop table test;\\n> > NOTICE:AbortTransaction and not in in-progress state \\n> > NOTICE:AbortTransaction and not in in-progress state \\n> > \\n> > Note that if I do not make an index, it would be ok.\\n> \\n> Can someone comment on the cause of the above problem? Is it a bug to\\n> add to the TODO list? I have verified it still exists in the current\\n> sources.\\n> \\n\\nThe message I see in the logs for this is:\\n\\nERROR: cannot write block 1 of iindex [test] blind\\nNOTICE: AbortTransaction and not in in-progress state\\nNOTICE: EndTransactionBlock and not inprogress/abort state\\n\\nVadim, sounds familiar.\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian | 830 Blythe Avenue\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026\\n + If your life is a hard drive, | (610) 353-9879(w)\\n + Christ can be your backup. | (610) 853-3000(h)\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sat, 13 Jun 1998 01:31:19 -0400 (EDT)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [BUGS] NOTICE:AbortTransaction and not in in-progress state\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Bruce Momjian wrote:\\n> \\n> > > QUERY: drop table test;\\n> > > WARN:Relation test Does Not Exist!\\n> > > QUERY: create table test (i int4);\\n> > > QUERY: create index iindex on test using btree(i);\\n> > > QUERY: begin;\\n> > > QUERY: insert into test values (100);\\n\\nThere will be dirty heap & index buffers in the pool after insertion ...\\n\\n> > > QUERY: select * from test;\\n> > > i\\n> > > ---\\n> > > 100\\n> > > (1 row)\\n> > >\\n> > > QUERY: rollback;\\n\\nThey are still marked as dirty...\\n\\n> > > QUERY: drop table test;\\n\\nheap_destroy_with_catalog () calls ReleaseRelationBuffers:\\n\\n * this function unmarks all the dirty pages of a relation\\n * in the buffer pool so that at the end of transaction\\n * these pages will not be flushed.\\n\\nbefore unlinking relation, BUT index_destroy() unlinks index\\nand DOESN'T call this func ...\\n\\n> > > NOTICE:AbortTransaction and not in in-progress state\\n> > > NOTICE:AbortTransaction and not in in-progress state\\n\\nCOMMIT (of drop table) tries to flush all dirty buffers\\nfrom pool but there is no index file any more ...\\n\\n> ERROR: cannot write block 1 of iindex [test] blind\\n\\nsmgrblindwrt () fails.\\n\\n> NOTICE: AbortTransaction and not in in-progress state\\n> NOTICE: EndTransactionBlock and not inprogress/abort state\\n\\n...transaction state is IN_COMMIT...\\n\\nSeems that ReleaseRelationBuffers() should be called by\\nindex_destroy() ... Note that heap_destroy() also calls\\n\\n /* ok - flush the relation from the relcache */\\n RelationForgetRelation(rid);\\n\\nat the end...\\n\\nVadim\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sat, 13 Jun 1998 14:18:05 +0800\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Vadim Mikheev <vadim@krs.ru>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [BUGS] NOTICE:AbortTransaction and not in in-progress state\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> \\n> Bruce Momjian wrote:\\n> > \\n> > > > QUERY: drop table test;\\n> > > > WARN:Relation test Does Not Exist!\\n> > > > QUERY: create table test (i int4);\\n> > > > QUERY: create index iindex on test using btree(i);\\n> > > > QUERY: begin;\\n> > > > QUERY: insert into test values (100);\\n> \\n> There will be dirty heap & index buffers in the pool after insertion ...\\n> \\n> > > > QUERY: select * from test;\\n> > > > i\\n> > > > ---\\n> > > > 100\\n> > > > (1 row)\\n> > > >\\n> > > > QUERY: rollback;\\n> \\n> They are still marked as dirty...\\n> \\n> > > > QUERY: drop table test;\\n> \\n> heap_destroy_with_catalog () calls ReleaseRelationBuffers:\\n> \\n> * this function unmarks all the dirty pages of a relation\\n> * in the buffer pool so that at the end of transaction\\n> * these pages will not be flushed.\\n> \\n> before unlinking relation, BUT index_destroy() unlinks index\\n> and DOESN'T call this func ...\\n> \\n> > > > NOTICE:AbortTransaction and not in in-progress state\\n> > > > NOTICE:AbortTransaction and not in in-progress state\\n> \\n> COMMIT (of drop table) tries to flush all dirty buffers\\n> from pool but there is no index file any more ...\\n> \\n> > ERROR: cannot write block 1 of iindex [test] blind\\n> \\n> smgrblindwrt () fails.\\n> \\n> > NOTICE: AbortTransaction and not in in-progress state\\n> > NOTICE: EndTransactionBlock and not inprogress/abort state\\n> \\n> ...transaction state is IN_COMMIT...\\n> \\n> Seems that ReleaseRelationBuffers() should be called by\\n> index_destroy() ... Note that heap_destroy() also calls\\n> \\n> /* ok - flush the relation from the relcache */\\n> RelationForgetRelation(rid);\\n> \\n> at the end...\\n> \\n> Vadim\\n> \\n\\nOK, the following patch fixes the problem. Vadim, I added both function\\ncalls to index_destroy and made heap_destroy consistent with\\nheap_destroy_with_catalog.\\n\\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------\\n\\nIndex: src/backend/catalog/heap.c\\n===================================================================\\nRCS file: /usr/local/cvsroot/pgsql/src/backend/catalog/heap.c,v\\nretrieving revision 1.48\\ndiff -c -r1.48 heap.c\\n*** heap.c\\t1998/04/27 04:04:47\\t1.48\\n--- heap.c\\t1998/06/13 20:13:18\\n***************\\n*** 12,18 ****\\n * INTERFACE ROUTINES\\n *\\t\\theap_create()\\t\\t\\t- Create an uncataloged heap relation\\n *\\t\\theap_create_with_catalog() - Create a cataloged relation\\n! *\\t\\theap_destroy_with_catalog()\\t\\t\\t- Removes named relation from catalogs\\n *\\n * NOTES\\n *\\t this code taken from access/heap/create.c, which contains\\n--- 12,18 ----\\n * INTERFACE ROUTINES\\n *\\t\\theap_create()\\t\\t\\t- Create an uncataloged heap relation\\n *\\t\\theap_create_with_catalog() - Create a cataloged relation\\n! *\\t\\theap_destroy_with_catalog()\\t- Removes named relation from catalogs\\n *\\n * NOTES\\n *\\t this code taken from access/heap/create.c, which contains\\n***************\\n*** 1290,1307 ****\\n \\t * ----------------\\n \\t */\\n \\tif (rdesc->rd_rel->relhasindex)\\n- \\t{\\n \\t\\tRelationRemoveIndexes(rdesc);\\n- \\t}\\n \\n \\t/* ----------------\\n \\t *\\tremove rules if necessary\\n \\t * ----------------\\n \\t */\\n \\tif (rdesc->rd_rules != NULL)\\n- \\t{\\n \\t\\tRelationRemoveRules(rid);\\n- \\t}\\n \\n \\t/* triggers */\\n \\tif (rdesc->rd_rel->reltriggers > 0)\\n--- 1290,1303 ----\\n***************\\n*** 1347,1355 ****\\n \\t * ----------------\\n \\t */\\n \\tif (!(rdesc->rd_istemp) || !(rdesc->rd_tmpunlinked))\\n- \\t{\\n \\t\\tsmgrunlink(DEFAULT_SMGR, rdesc);\\n! \\t}\\n \\trdesc->rd_tmpunlinked = TRUE;\\n \\n \\tRelationUnsetLockForWrite(rdesc);\\n--- 1343,1350 ----\\n \\t * ----------------\\n \\t */\\n \\tif (!(rdesc->rd_istemp) || !(rdesc->rd_tmpunlinked))\\n \\t\\tsmgrunlink(DEFAULT_SMGR, rdesc);\\n! \\n \\trdesc->rd_tmpunlinked = TRUE;\\n \\n \\tRelationUnsetLockForWrite(rdesc);\\n***************\\n*** 1375,1380 ****\\n--- 1370,1376 ----\\n \\trdesc->rd_tmpunlinked = TRUE;\\n \\theap_close(rdesc);\\n \\tRemoveFromTempRelList(rdesc);\\n+ \\tRelationForgetRelation(rdesc->rd_id);\\n }\\n \\n \\nIndex: src/backend/catalog/index.c\\n===================================================================\\nRCS file: /usr/local/cvsroot/pgsql/src/backend/catalog/index.c,v\\nretrieving revision 1.41\\ndiff -c -r1.41 index.c\\n*** index.c\\t1998/05/09 23:42:59\\t1.41\\n--- index.c\\t1998/06/13 20:13:27\\n***************\\n*** 1270,1276 ****\\n \\twhile (tuple = heap_getnext(scan, 0, (Buffer *) NULL),\\n \\t\\t HeapTupleIsValid(tuple))\\n \\t{\\n- \\n \\t\\theap_delete(catalogRelation, &tuple->t_ctid);\\n \\t}\\n \\theap_endscan(scan);\\n--- 1270,1275 ----\\n***************\\n*** 1296,1307 ****\\n \\theap_close(catalogRelation);\\n \\n \\t/*\\n! \\t * physically remove the file\\n \\t */\\n \\tif (FileNameUnlink(relpath(indexRelation->rd_rel->relname.data)) < 0)\\n \\t\\telog(ERROR, \\\"amdestroyr: unlink: %m\\\");\\n \\n \\tindex_close(indexRelation);\\n }\\n \\n /* ----------------------------------------------------------------\\n--- 1295,1309 ----\\n \\theap_close(catalogRelation);\\n \\n \\t/*\\n! \\t * flush cache and physically remove the file\\n \\t */\\n+ \\tReleaseRelationBuffers(indexRelation);\\n+ \\n \\tif (FileNameUnlink(relpath(indexRelation->rd_rel->relname.data)) < 0)\\n \\t\\telog(ERROR, \\\"amdestroyr: unlink: %m\\\");\\n \\n \\tindex_close(indexRelation);\\n+ \\tRelationForgetRelation(indexRelation->rd_id);\\n }\\n \\n /* ----------------------------------------------------------------\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian | 830 Blythe Avenue\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026\\n + If your life is a hard drive, | (610) 353-9879(w)\\n + Christ can be your backup. | (610) 853-3000(h)\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sat, 13 Jun 1998 16:18:36 -0400 (EDT)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [BUGS] NOTICE:AbortTransaction and not in in-progress state\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Bruce Momjian wrote:\\n> > Bruce Momjian wrote:\\n> > > \\n> > > > > QUERY: drop table test;\\n> > > > > WARN:Relation test Does Not Exist!\\n> > > > > QUERY: create table test (i int4);\\n> > > > > QUERY: create index iindex on test using btree(i);\\n> > > > > QUERY: begin;\\n> > > > > QUERY: insert into test values (100);\\n> > \\n> > There will be dirty heap & index buffers in the pool after insertion ...\\n> > \\n> > > > > QUERY: select * from test;\\n> > > > > i\\n> > > > > ---\\n> > > > > 100\\n> > > > > (1 row)\\n> > > > >\\n> > > > > QUERY: rollback;\\n> > \\n> > They are still marked as dirty...\\n> > \\n> > > > > QUERY: drop table test;\\n> > \\n> > heap_destroy_with_catalog () calls ReleaseRelationBuffers:\\n> > \\n> > * this function unmarks all the dirty pages of a relation\\n> > * in the buffer pool so that at the end of transaction\\n> > * these pages will not be flushed.\\n> > \\n> > before unlinking relation, BUT index_destroy() unlinks index\\n> > and DOESN'T call this func ...\\n> > \\n> > > > > NOTICE:AbortTransaction and not in in-progress state\\n> > > > > NOTICE:AbortTransaction and not in in-progress state\\n> > \\n> > COMMIT (of drop table) tries to flush all dirty buffers\\n> > from pool but there is no index file any more ...\\n> > \\n> > > ERROR: cannot write block 1 of iindex [test] blind\\n> > \\n> > smgrblindwrt () fails.\\n> > \\n> > > NOTICE: AbortTransaction and not in in-progress state\\n> > > NOTICE: EndTransactionBlock and not inprogress/abort state\\n> > \\n> > ...transaction state is IN_COMMIT...\\n> > \\n> > Seems that ReleaseRelationBuffers() should be called by\\n> > index_destroy() ... Note that heap_destroy() also calls\\n> > \\n> > /* ok - flush the relation from the relcache */\\n> > RelationForgetRelation(rid);\\n> > \\n> > at the end...\\n> > \\n> > Vadim\\n> > \\n> \\n> OK, the following patch fixes the problem. Vadim, I added both function\\n> calls to index_destroy and made heap_destroy consistent with\\n> heap_destroy_with_catalog.\\n> \\n> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\\n> \\n> Index: src/backend/catalog/heap.c\\n> ===================================================================\\n> RCS file: /usr/local/cvsroot/pgsql/src/backend/catalog/heap.c,v\\n> retrieving revision 1.48\\n> diff -c -r1.48 heap.c\\n> *** heap.c\\t1998/04/27 04:04:47\\t1.48\\n> --- heap.c\\t1998/06/13 20:13:18\\n> ***************\\n> *** 12,18 ****\\n> * INTERFACE ROUTINES\\n> *\\t\\theap_create()\\t\\t\\t- Create an uncataloged heap relation\\n> *\\t\\theap_create_with_catalog() - Create a cataloged relation\\n> ! *\\t\\theap_destroy_with_catalog()\\t\\t\\t- Removes named relation from catalogs\\n> *\\n> * NOTES\\n> *\\t this code taken from access/heap/create.c, which contains\\n> --- 12,18 ----\\n> * INTERFACE ROUTINES\\n> *\\t\\theap_create()\\t\\t\\t- Create an uncataloged heap relation\\n> *\\t\\theap_create_with_catalog() - Create a cataloged relation\\n> ! *\\t\\theap_destroy_with_catalog()\\t- Removes named relation from catalogs\\n> *\\n> * NOTES\\n> *\\t this code taken from access/heap/create.c, which contains\\n> ***************\\n> *** 1290,1307 ****\\n> \\t * ----------------\\n> \\t */\\n> \\tif (rdesc->rd_rel->relhasindex)\\n> - \\t{\\n> \\t\\tRelationRemoveIndexes(rdesc);\\n> - \\t}\\n> \\n> \\t/* ----------------\\n> \\t *\\tremove rules if necessary\\n> \\t * ----------------\\n> \\t */\\n> \\tif (rdesc->rd_rules != NULL)\\n> - \\t{\\n> \\t\\tRelationRemoveRules(rid);\\n> - \\t}\\n> \\n> \\t/* triggers */\\n> \\tif (rdesc->rd_rel->reltriggers > 0)\\n> --- 1290,1303 ----\\n> ***************\\n> *** 1347,1355 ****\\n> \\t * ----------------\\n> \\t */\\n> \\tif (!(rdesc->rd_istemp) || !(rdesc->rd_tmpunlinked))\\n> - \\t{\\n> \\t\\tsmgrunlink(DEFAULT_SMGR, rdesc);\\n> ! \\t}\\n> \\trdesc->rd_tmpunlinked = TRUE;\\n> \\n> \\tRelationUnsetLockForWrite(rdesc);\\n> --- 1343,1350 ----\\n> \\t * ----------------\\n> \\t */\\n> \\tif (!(rdesc->rd_istemp) || !(rdesc->rd_tmpunlinked))\\n> \\t\\tsmgrunlink(DEFAULT_SMGR, rdesc);\\n> ! \\n> \\trdesc->rd_tmpunlinked = TRUE;\\n> \\n> \\tRelationUnsetLockForWrite(rdesc);\\n> ***************\\n> *** 1375,1380 ****\\n> --- 1370,1376 ----\\n> \\trdesc->rd_tmpunlinked = TRUE;\\n> \\theap_close(rdesc);\\n> \\tRemoveFromTempRelList(rdesc);\\n> + \\tRelationForgetRelation(rdesc->rd_id);\\n> }\\n> \\n> \\n> Index: src/backend/catalog/index.c\\n> ===================================================================\\n> RCS file: /usr/local/cvsroot/pgsql/src/backend/catalog/index.c,v\\n> retrieving revision 1.41\\n> diff -c -r1.41 index.c\\n> *** index.c\\t1998/05/09 23:42:59\\t1.41\\n> --- index.c\\t1998/06/13 20:13:27\\n> ***************\\n> *** 1270,1276 ****\\n> \\twhile (tuple = heap_getnext(scan, 0, (Buffer *) NULL),\\n> \\t\\t HeapTupleIsValid(tuple))\\n> \\t{\\n> - \\n> \\t\\theap_delete(catalogRelation, &tuple->t_ctid);\\n> \\t}\\n> \\theap_endscan(scan);\\n> --- 1270,1275 ----\\n> ***************\\n> *** 1296,1307 ****\\n> \\theap_close(catalogRelation);\\n> \\n> \\t/*\\n> ! \\t * physically remove the file\\n> \\t */\\n> \\tif (FileNameUnlink(relpath(indexRelation->rd_rel->relname.data)) < 0)\\n> \\t\\telog(ERROR, \\\"amdestroyr: unlink: %m\\\");\\n> \\n> \\tindex_close(indexRelation);\\n> }\\n> \\n> /* ----------------------------------------------------------------\\n> --- 1295,1309 ----\\n> \\theap_close(catalogRelation);\\n> \\n> \\t/*\\n> ! \\t * flush cache and physically remove the file\\n> \\t */\\n> + \\tReleaseRelationBuffers(indexRelation);\\n> + \\n> \\tif (FileNameUnlink(relpath(indexRelation->rd_rel->relname.data)) < 0)\\n> \\t\\telog(ERROR, \\\"amdestroyr: unlink: %m\\\");\\n> \\n> \\tindex_close(indexRelation);\\n> + \\tRelationForgetRelation(indexRelation->rd_id);\\n> }\\n> \\n> /* ----------------------------------------------------------------\\n\\n\\nTwo comments:\\n\\n - I notice you getting rid of { } pairs eg:\\n\\n if (condition)\\n {\\n dosomething();\\n }\\n\\n becomes\\n\\n if (condition)\\n dosomething();\\n\\n Is this policy? I prefer to have the braces almost always as I find\\n it easier to read, and less error prone if someone adds a statement or an\\n else clause, so in most of my patches, I would tend to put braces in.\\n If you are busy taking them out simaltaniously, this could get silly.\\n\\n Btw, I have been badly bit by:\\n\\n if (condition);\\n dosomething();\\n\\n which turned out to be very hard to see indeed.\\n\\n\\n - I think the bit at line 1295-1309 might want to do all the work before\\n the elog. Otherwise the elog leave the buffer cache polluted with buffers\\n belonging to a mostly deleted index. Eg:\\n\\n + ReleaseRelationBuffers(indexRelation);\\n +\\n fname = relpath(indexRelation->rd_rel->relname.data);\\n\\t status = FileNameUnlink(fname);\\n\\n index_close(indexRelation);\\n + RelationForgetRelation(indexRelation->rd_id);\\n\\n if (status < 0)\\n elog(ERROR, \\\"amdestroyr: unlink: %m\\\");\\n\\n-dg\\n \\nDavid Gould dg@illustra.com 510.628.3783 or 510.305.9468 \\nInformix Software (No, really) 300 Lakeside Drive Oakland, CA 94612\\n\\\"Don't worry about people stealing your ideas. If your ideas are any\\n good, you'll have to ram them down people's throats.\\\" -- Howard Aiken\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sat, 13 Jun 1998 18:32:16 -0700 (PDT)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"dg@illustra.com (David Gould)\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Re: [BUGS] NOTICE:AbortTransaction and not in\\n\\tin-progress state\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> Two comments:\\n> \\n> - I notice you getting rid of { } pairs eg:\\n> \\n> if (condition)\\n> {\\n> dosomething();\\n> }\\n> \\n> becomes\\n> \\n> if (condition)\\n> dosomething();\\n> \\n> Is this policy? I prefer to have the braces almost always as I find\\n> it easier to read, and less error prone if someone adds a statement or an\\n> else clause, so in most of my patches, I would tend to put braces in.\\n> If you are busy taking them out simaltaniously, this could get silly.\\n\\nI think several developers agreed that they were just wasting screen\\nspace. The code is large enough without brace noise. I have considered\\nwriting a script to remove the single-statement braces, but have not\\ndone it yet.\\n\\nIf people would like to re-vote on this issue, I would be glad to hear\\nabout it.\\n\\n> \\n> Btw, I have been badly bit by:\\n> \\n> if (condition);\\n> dosomething();\\n> \\n> which turned out to be very hard to see indeed.\\n\\nSure, but braces don't help you either. This is just as legal:\\n\\n\\tif (condition);\\n\\t{\\n\\t\\tdosomething();\\n\\t}\\n\\n\\n> \\n> \\n> - I think the bit at line 1295-1309 might want to do all the work before\\n> the elog. Otherwise the elog leave the buffer cache polluted with buffers\\n> belonging to a mostly deleted index. Eg:\\n> \\n> + ReleaseRelationBuffers(indexRelation);\\n> +\\n> fname = relpath(indexRelation->rd_rel->relname.data);\\n> \\t status = FileNameUnlink(fname);\\n> \\n> index_close(indexRelation);\\n> + RelationForgetRelation(indexRelation->rd_id);\\n> \\n> if (status < 0)\\n> elog(ERROR, \\\"amdestroyr: unlink: %m\\\");\\n\\nYes, that is true, but I kept the order as used in the rest of the code,\\nfiguring the original coder knew better than I do. IMHO, if we get that\\n\\\"amdestroyr\\\" error, we have bigger problems than an invalid relation\\ncache\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian | 830 Blythe Avenue\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026\\n + If your life is a hard drive, | (610) 353-9879(w)\\n + Christ can be your backup. | (610) 853-3000(h)\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sat, 13 Jun 1998 22:35:28 -0400 (EDT)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Re: [BUGS] NOTICE:AbortTransaction and not in\\n\\tin-progress state\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> I think several developers agreed that they were just wasting screen\\n> space. The code is large enough without brace noise. I have considered\\n> writing a script to remove the single-statement braces, but have not\\n> done it yet.\\n> \\n> If people would like to re-vote on this issue, I would be glad to hear\\n> about it.\\n\\nOk, I won't add them. I'm not taking them out if I see them though ;-). \\n\\n> Sure, but braces don't help you either. This is just as legal:\\n> \\n> \\tif (condition);\\n> \\t{\\n> \\t\\tdosomething();\\n> \\t}\\n\\nTrue enough, but I think less likely to happen. \\n\\n> > - I think the bit at line 1295-1309 might want to do all the work before\\n> > the elog. Otherwise the elog leave the buffer cache polluted with buffers\\n> > belonging to a mostly deleted index. Eg:\\n> > \\n> > + ReleaseRelationBuffers(indexRelation);\\n> > +\\n> > fname = relpath(indexRelation->rd_rel->relname.data);\\n> > \\t status = FileNameUnlink(fname);\\n> > \\n> > index_close(indexRelation);\\n> > + RelationForgetRelation(indexRelation->rd_id);\\n> > \\n> > if (status < 0)\\n> > elog(ERROR, \\\"amdestroyr: unlink: %m\\\");\\n> \\n> Yes, that is true, but I kept the order as used in the rest of the code,\\n> figuring the original coder knew better than I do. IMHO, if we get that\\n> \\\"amdestroyr\\\" error, we have bigger problems than an invalid relation\\n> cache\\n\\nWell, the code in heap.c calls smgrunlink() without checking the return code.\\nsmgrunlink() calls mdunlink() which contains:\\n\\n if (FileNameUnlink(fname) < 0)\\n return (SM_FAIL);\\n\\nSo heap_destroy does not even through an elog() at all if the FileNameUnlink()\\nfails. I think this is actually the right policy since if FileNameUnlink()\\nfails the only consequence is that a file is left on the disk (or maybe\\nthe unlink failed because it was already gone). The system state (buffers etc)\\nand catalogs are consitant with the heap having been destroyed. So not a\\nproblem from the database's perspective. \\n\\nI suggest you change your patch to simply ignore the return code from\\nFileNameUnlink(). As in:\\n\\n ReleaseRelationBuffers(indexRelation);\\n\\n (void) FileNameUnlink(relpath(indexRelation->rd_rel->relname.data));\\n\\n index_close(indexRelation);\\n RelationForgetRelation(indexRelation->rd_id); \\n\\nIn this way it will have the same behaviour as heap_destroy...\\n\\n-dg\\n\\nDavid Gould dg@illustra.com 510.628.3783 or 510.305.9468\\nInformix Software 300 Lakeside Drive Oakland, CA 94612\\n - A child of five could understand this! Fetch me a child of five.\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sat, 13 Jun 1998 19:59:12 -0700 (PDT)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"dg@illustra.com (David Gould)\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Re: [BUGS] NOTICE:AbortTransaction and not in\\n\\tin-progress state\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\nI've been trying to use them in my patches as well, maily for\\nconsistency as its something I'd never do myself. I'll gladly\\nstop though.\\n\\nOn Sat, 13 June 1998, at 19:59:12, David Gould wrote:\\n\\n> Ok, I won't add them. I'm not taking them out if I see them though ;-). \\n> \\n> > Sure, but braces don't help you either. This is just as legal:\\n> > \\n> > \\tif (condition);\\n> > \\t{\\n> > \\t\\tdosomething();\\n> > \\t}\\n> \\n> True enough, but I think less likely to happen. \\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sat, 13 Jun 1998 20:07:35 -0700 (PDT)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Brett McCormick <brett@work.chicken.org>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Re: [BUGS] NOTICE:AbortTransaction and not in\\n\\tin-progress state\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Bruce Momjian wrote:\\n> \\n> Index: src/backend/catalog/heap.c\\n> ===================================================================\\n> ***************\\n> *** 1375,1380 ****\\n> --- 1370,1376 ----\\n> rdesc->rd_tmpunlinked = TRUE;\\n> heap_close(rdesc);\\n> RemoveFromTempRelList(rdesc);\\n> + RelationForgetRelation(rdesc->rd_id);\\n\\nWe need not in RelationForgetRelation() in heap_destroy().\\nLocal relations are handled in other way...\\n\\nVadim\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sun, 14 Jun 1998 14:35:31 +0800\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Vadim Mikheev <vadim@krs.ru>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Re: [BUGS] NOTICE:AbortTransaction and not in\\n\\tin-progress state\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> Gentlemen:\\n\\tThe test of the Irix port of PostgreSQL running with default\\noptimization passes all the regression tests the same as before\\nexcept that the random number test is now different. The new output is\\nincluded below. It appears to be OK, but I would like confirmation.\\nThanks.\\n\\n=============================random.out=================================\\n\\nQUERY: SELECT count(*) FROM onek;\\ncount\\n-----\\n 1000\\n(1 row)\\n\\nQUERY: SELECT count(*) AS random INTO RANDOM_TBL\\n FROM onek WHERE oidrand(onek.oid, 10);\\nQUERY: INSERT INTO RANDOM_TBL (random)\\n SELECT count(*)\\n FROM onek WHERE oidrand(onek.oid, 10);\\nQUERY: SELECT random, count(random) FROM RANDOM_TBL\\n GROUP BY random HAVING count(random) > 1;\\nrandom|count\\n------+-----\\n(0 rows)\\n\\nQUERY: SELECT random FROM RANDOM_TBL\\n WHERE random NOT BETWEEN 80 AND 120;\\nrandom\\n------\\n 74\\n(1 row)\\n\\n+------------------------------------------+------------------------------+\\n| Robert E. Bruccoleri, Ph.D. | Associate Research Professor |\\n| phone: 732 235 5796 | Center for Advanced |\\n| Fax: 732 235 4850 | Biotechnology and Medicine |\\n| email: bruc@acm.org | Rutgers University |\\n| URL: http://www.cabm.rutgers.edu/~bruc | 679 Hoes Lane |\\n| | Piscataway, NJ 08854-5638 |\\n+------------------------------------------+------------------------------+\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 29 Sep 1998 11:01:35 -0400 (EDT)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Robert Bruccoleri <bruc@pluto.njcc.com>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: SGI Port of Postgresql 6.4 snapshot of 09/28/98\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Thus spake darcy\\n> > Here I assume user darcy has usesuper set in pg_shadow. Check\\n> > and correct me if I'm wrong. The superuser flag is set if you\\n> > allow darcy to create users on createuser time.\\n> \\n> Correct again. I half suspected something like this. Perhaps the\\n> prompt in createuser should be changed to reflect that the user is\\n> being granted full superuser privileges rather than just being able\\n> to create more users.\\n\\nShould I send in the (trivial) diffs to effect this change? I figure\\nto ask the following.\\n\\n \\\"Does user \\\"x\\\" have superuser privileges? (y/n)\\\"\\n\\n-- \\nD'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy@{druid|vex}.net> | Democracy is three wolves\\nhttp://www.druid.net/darcy/ | and a sheep voting on\\n+1 416 424 2871 (DoD#0082) (eNTP) | what's for dinner.\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 13 Oct 1998 13:13:02 -0400 (EDT)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"darcy@druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Permissions not working?\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> > I strongly suggest patching this before 6.5 ...\\n>\\n> No comment other that \\\"sorry\\\".\\n\\n Mark: Should I commit the fix on regress.sh?\\n\\n\\nJan\\n\\n--\\n\\n#======================================================================#\\n# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #\\n# Let's break this rule - forgive me. #\\n#========================================= wieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #\\n\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 14 Jun 1999 22:14:03 +0200 (MET DST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"wieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] regress.sh\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Thus spake Bruce Momjian\\n> If anyone was concerned about our bug database being visible and giving\\n> the impression we don't fix any bugs, see this URL:\\n> \\n> \\thttp://www.isthisthingon.org/nisca/postgres.html\\n\\nJeez, Louise. Talk about a blaming the tools because you don't know\\nanything about database design. I mean, his biggest complaint is that\\nPostgreSQL makes it hard (not impossible as he implies) to change the\\nschema. Perhaps that is because it was written by GOOD database designers\\nwho don't have to change their schema every other week and so that issue\\nhasn't been a squeaky wheel.\\n\\nI can't believe that anyone important is listening to this guy.\\n\\n-- \\nD'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy@{druid|vex}.net> | Democracy is three wolves\\nhttp://www.druid.net/darcy/ | and a sheep voting on\\n+1 416 425 1212 (DoD#0082) (eNTP) | what's for dinner.\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 21 Aug 2001 07:24:57 -0400 (EDT)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"darcy@druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: Link to bug webpage\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Thus spake Bruce Momjian\\n> > Unless someone has something they are sitting on, I'd like to wrap up a\\n> > 7.2b2 this afternoon, and do a proper release announcement for it like\\n> > didn't happen for 7.2b1 ...\\n> \\n> I have been working with Tom on some pgindent issues and have made\\n> slight improvements to the script. Because we are early in beta and no\\n> one has outstanding patches, I would like to run it again and commit the\\n> changes. It should improve variables defined as structs and alignment\\n> of include/catalog/*.h files.\\n\\nI have a change I would like to discuss. It doesn't change the code\\nbase, only the build system. The patches I would like to commit follow\\nthis text. The only thing it does is create a config option to bytecode\\ncompile the Python modules. It also cleans up the install in the Makefile\\na little bit.\\n\\nIndex: configure.in\\n===================================================================\\nRCS file: /cvsroot/pgsql/configure.in,v\\nretrieving revision 1.150\\ndiff -u -r1.150 configure.in\\n--- configure.in\\t2001/10/25 13:02:01\\t1.150\\n+++ configure.in\\t2001/11/06 09:09:50\\n@@ -398,6 +398,18 @@\\n AC_MSG_RESULT([$with_python])\\n AC_SUBST(with_python)\\n \\n+# If python is enabled (above), then optionally byte-compile the modules.\\n+AC_MSG_CHECKING([whether to byte-compile Python modules])\\n+if test \\\"$with_python\\\" = yes; then\\n+ PGAC_ARG_BOOL(with, python_compile, no,\\n+ [ --with-python-compile byte-compile modules if Python is enabled])\\n+else\\n+ with_python_compile=no\\n+fi\\n+AC_MSG_RESULT([$with_python_compile])\\n+AC_SUBST([with_python_compile])\\n+\\n+\\n #\\n # Optionally build the Java/JDBC tools\\n #\\nIndex: src/Makefile.global.in\\n===================================================================\\nRCS file: /cvsroot/pgsql/src/Makefile.global.in,v\\nretrieving revision 1.140\\ndiff -u -r1.140 Makefile.global.in\\n--- src/Makefile.global.in\\t2001/10/13 15:24:23\\t1.140\\n+++ src/Makefile.global.in\\t2001/11/06 09:09:54\\n@@ -123,6 +123,7 @@\\n with_java\\t= @with_java@\\n with_perl\\t= @with_perl@\\n with_python\\t= @with_python@\\n+with_python_compile\\t= @with_python_compile@\\n with_tcl\\t= @with_tcl@\\n with_tk\\t\\t= @with_tk@\\n enable_odbc\\t= @enable_odbc@\\nIndex: src/interfaces/python/GNUmakefile\\n===================================================================\\nRCS file: /cvsroot/pgsql/src/interfaces/python/GNUmakefile,v\\nretrieving revision 1.11\\ndiff -u -r1.11 GNUmakefile\\n--- src/interfaces/python/GNUmakefile\\t2001/08/24 14:07:50\\t1.11\\n+++ src/interfaces/python/GNUmakefile\\t2001/11/06 09:10:00\\n@@ -19,10 +19,23 @@\\n \\n override CPPFLAGS := -I$(libpq_srcdir) $(CPPFLAGS) $(python_includespec)\\n \\n-all: all-lib\\n+PY_SCRIPTS = pg.py pgdb.py\\n+ifeq ($(with_python_compile), yes)\\n+PY_COMPILED_SCRIPTS = $(PY_SCRIPTS:%.py=%.pyc) $(PY_SCRIPTS:%.py=%.pyo)\\n+else\\n+PY_COMPILED_SCRIPTS =\\n+endif\\n \\n+all: all-lib $(PY_COMPILED_SCRIPTS)\\n+\\n all-lib: libpq-all\\n \\n+%.pyc: %.py\\n+\\tpython -c \\\"import py_compile; py_compile.compile(\\\\\\\"$<\\\\\\\")\\\"\\n+\\n+%.pyo: %.py\\n+\\tpython -O -c \\\"import py_compile; py_compile.compile(\\\\\\\"$<\\\\\\\")\\\"\\n+\\n .PHONY: libpq-all\\n libpq-all:\\n \\t$(MAKE) -C $(libpq_builddir) all\\n@@ -37,12 +50,11 @@\\n \\t@if test -w $(DESTDIR)$(python_moduleexecdir) && test -w $(DESTDIR)$(python_moduledir); then \\\\\\n \\t echo \\\"$(INSTALL_SHLIB) $(shlib) $(DESTDIR)$(python_moduleexecdir)/_pgmodule$(DLSUFFIX)\\\"; \\\\\\n \\t $(INSTALL_SHLIB) $(shlib) $(DESTDIR)$(python_moduleexecdir)/_pgmodule$(DLSUFFIX); \\\\\\n-\\t\\\\\\n-\\t echo \\\"$(INSTALL_DATA) $(srcdir)/pg.py $(DESTDIR)$(python_moduledir)/pg.py\\\"; \\\\\\n-\\t $(INSTALL_DATA) $(srcdir)/pg.py $(DESTDIR)$(python_moduledir)/pg.py; \\\\\\n \\t\\\\\\n-\\t echo \\\"$(INSTALL_DATA) $(srcdir)/pgdb.py $(DESTDIR)$(python_moduledir)/pgdb.py\\\"; \\\\\\n-\\t $(INSTALL_DATA) $(srcdir)/pgdb.py $(DESTDIR)$(python_moduledir)/pgdb.py; \\\\\\n+\\t for i in $(PY_SCRIPTS) $(PY_COMPILED_SCRIPTS); do \\\\\\n+\\t\\techo $(INSTALL_DATA) $$i $(python_moduledir); \\\\\\n+\\t\\t$(INSTALL_DATA) $$i $(python_moduledir); \\\\\\n+\\t done \\\\\\n \\telse \\\\\\n \\t $(install-warning-msg); \\\\\\n \\tfi\\n\\n-- \\nD'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy@{druid|vex}.net> | Democracy is three wolves\\nhttp://www.druid.net/darcy/ | and a sheep voting on\\n+1 416 425 1212 (DoD#0082) (eNTP) | what's for dinner.\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 6 Nov 2001 04:12:56 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"darcy@druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: Proposal: 7.2b2 today\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\nOkay, I heard a 'yelp' from Tom concerning hte pgindent stuff, so I\\nhaven't done beta2 up ... can someoen comment on this, as to whether we\\ncan get it in, before I throw together beta2?\\n\\nTom ... are/were you okay with Bruce's last pgindent run?\\n\\n\\n\\nOn Tue, 6 Nov 2001, D'Arcy J.M. Cain wrote:\\n\\n> Thus spake Bruce Momjian\\n> > > Unless someone has something they are sitting on, I'd like to wrap up a\\n> > > 7.2b2 this afternoon, and do a proper release announcement for it like\\n> > > didn't happen for 7.2b1 ...\\n> >\\n> > I have been working with Tom on some pgindent issues and have made\\n> > slight improvements to the script. Because we are early in beta and no\\n> > one has outstanding patches, I would like to run it again and commit the\\n> > changes. It should improve variables defined as structs and alignment\\n> > of include/catalog/*.h files.\\n>\\n> I have a change I would like to discuss. It doesn't change the code\\n> base, only the build system. The patches I would like to commit follow\\n> this text. The only thing it does is create a config option to bytecode\\n> compile the Python modules. It also cleans up the install in the Makefile\\n> a little bit.\\n>\\n> Index: configure.in\\n> ===================================================================\\n> RCS file: /cvsroot/pgsql/configure.in,v\\n> retrieving revision 1.150\\n> diff -u -r1.150 configure.in\\n> --- configure.in\\t2001/10/25 13:02:01\\t1.150\\n> +++ configure.in\\t2001/11/06 09:09:50\\n> @@ -398,6 +398,18 @@\\n> AC_MSG_RESULT([$with_python])\\n> AC_SUBST(with_python)\\n>\\n> +# If python is enabled (above), then optionally byte-compile the modules.\\n> +AC_MSG_CHECKING([whether to byte-compile Python modules])\\n> +if test \\\"$with_python\\\" = yes; then\\n> + PGAC_ARG_BOOL(with, python_compile, no,\\n> + [ --with-python-compile byte-compile modules if Python is enabled])\\n> +else\\n> + with_python_compile=no\\n> +fi\\n> +AC_MSG_RESULT([$with_python_compile])\\n> +AC_SUBST([with_python_compile])\\n> +\\n> +\\n> #\\n> # Optionally build the Java/JDBC tools\\n> #\\n> Index: src/Makefile.global.in\\n> ===================================================================\\n> RCS file: /cvsroot/pgsql/src/Makefile.global.in,v\\n> retrieving revision 1.140\\n> diff -u -r1.140 Makefile.global.in\\n> --- src/Makefile.global.in\\t2001/10/13 15:24:23\\t1.140\\n> +++ src/Makefile.global.in\\t2001/11/06 09:09:54\\n> @@ -123,6 +123,7 @@\\n> with_java\\t= @with_java@\\n> with_perl\\t= @with_perl@\\n> with_python\\t= @with_python@\\n> +with_python_compile\\t= @with_python_compile@\\n> with_tcl\\t= @with_tcl@\\n> with_tk\\t\\t= @with_tk@\\n> enable_odbc\\t= @enable_odbc@\\n> Index: src/interfaces/python/GNUmakefile\\n> ===================================================================\\n> RCS file: /cvsroot/pgsql/src/interfaces/python/GNUmakefile,v\\n> retrieving revision 1.11\\n> diff -u -r1.11 GNUmakefile\\n> --- src/interfaces/python/GNUmakefile\\t2001/08/24 14:07:50\\t1.11\\n> +++ src/interfaces/python/GNUmakefile\\t2001/11/06 09:10:00\\n> @@ -19,10 +19,23 @@\\n>\\n> override CPPFLAGS := -I$(libpq_srcdir) $(CPPFLAGS) $(python_includespec)\\n>\\n> -all: all-lib\\n> +PY_SCRIPTS = pg.py pgdb.py\\n> +ifeq ($(with_python_compile), yes)\\n> +PY_COMPILED_SCRIPTS = $(PY_SCRIPTS:%.py=%.pyc) $(PY_SCRIPTS:%.py=%.pyo)\\n> +else\\n> +PY_COMPILED_SCRIPTS =\\n> +endif\\n>\\n> +all: all-lib $(PY_COMPILED_SCRIPTS)\\n> +\\n> all-lib: libpq-all\\n>\\n> +%.pyc: %.py\\n> +\\tpython -c \\\"import py_compile; py_compile.compile(\\\\\\\"$<\\\\\\\")\\\"\\n> +\\n> +%.pyo: %.py\\n> +\\tpython -O -c \\\"import py_compile; py_compile.compile(\\\\\\\"$<\\\\\\\")\\\"\\n> +\\n> .PHONY: libpq-all\\n> libpq-all:\\n> \\t$(MAKE) -C $(libpq_builddir) all\\n> @@ -37,12 +50,11 @@\\n> \\t@if test -w $(DESTDIR)$(python_moduleexecdir) && test -w $(DESTDIR)$(python_moduledir); then \\\\\\n> \\t echo \\\"$(INSTALL_SHLIB) $(shlib) $(DESTDIR)$(python_moduleexecdir)/_pgmodule$(DLSUFFIX)\\\"; \\\\\\n> \\t $(INSTALL_SHLIB) $(shlib) $(DESTDIR)$(python_moduleexecdir)/_pgmodule$(DLSUFFIX); \\\\\\n> -\\t\\\\\\n> -\\t echo \\\"$(INSTALL_DATA) $(srcdir)/pg.py $(DESTDIR)$(python_moduledir)/pg.py\\\"; \\\\\\n> -\\t $(INSTALL_DATA) $(srcdir)/pg.py $(DESTDIR)$(python_moduledir)/pg.py; \\\\\\n> \\t\\\\\\n> -\\t echo \\\"$(INSTALL_DATA) $(srcdir)/pgdb.py $(DESTDIR)$(python_moduledir)/pgdb.py\\\"; \\\\\\n> -\\t $(INSTALL_DATA) $(srcdir)/pgdb.py $(DESTDIR)$(python_moduledir)/pgdb.py; \\\\\\n> +\\t for i in $(PY_SCRIPTS) $(PY_COMPILED_SCRIPTS); do \\\\\\n> +\\t\\techo $(INSTALL_DATA) $$i $(python_moduledir); \\\\\\n> +\\t\\t$(INSTALL_DATA) $$i $(python_moduledir); \\\\\\n> +\\t done \\\\\\n> \\telse \\\\\\n> \\t $(install-warning-msg); \\\\\\n> \\tfi\\n>\\n> --\\n> D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy@{druid|vex}.net> | Democracy is three wolves\\n> http://www.druid.net/darcy/ | and a sheep voting on\\n> +1 416 425 1212 (DoD#0082) (eNTP) | what's for dinner.\\n>\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 6 Nov 2001 08:07:14 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"\\\"Marc G. Fournier\\\" <scrappy@hub.org>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: Proposal: 7.2b2 today\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> \\n> Okay, I heard a 'yelp' from Tom concerning hte pgindent stuff, so I\\n> haven't done beta2 up ... can someoen comment on this, as to whether we\\n> can get it in, before I throw together beta2?\\n> \\n> Tom ... are/were you okay with Bruce's last pgindent run?\\n\\nI threw it up on a web site so people could review it. With no\\nobjections, I think we are fine for beta2.\\n\\n-- \\n Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us\\n pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000\\n + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue\\n + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 6 Nov 2001 11:16:55 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: Proposal: 7.2b2 today\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \">> Okay, I heard a 'yelp' from Tom concerning hte pgindent stuff, so I\\n>> haven't done beta2 up ... can someoen comment on this, as to whether we\\n>> can get it in, before I throw together beta2?\\n\\nI looked over the diffs, they seem okay.\\n\\nSince Thomas just committed a horology regress test fix, the regression\\ntests are broken on platforms that use variant horology test files.\\nGive me an hour to do something about that, and then we can roll beta2.\\n\\n\\t\\t\\tregards, tom lane\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 06 Nov 2001 12:07:07 -0500\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: Proposal: 7.2b2 today \"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\nsounds cool to me ...\\n\\n\\nOn Tue, 6 Nov 2001, Tom Lane wrote:\\n\\n> >> Okay, I heard a 'yelp' from Tom concerning hte pgindent stuff, so I\\n> >> haven't done beta2 up ... can someoen comment on this, as to whether we\\n> >> can get it in, before I throw together beta2?\\n>\\n> I looked over the diffs, they seem okay.\\n>\\n> Since Thomas just committed a horology regress test fix, the regression\\n> tests are broken on platforms that use variant horology test files.\\n> Give me an hour to do something about that, and then we can roll beta2.\\n>\\n> \\t\\t\\tregards, tom lane\\n>\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 6 Nov 2001 12:07:51 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"\\\"Marc G. Fournier\\\" <scrappy@hub.org>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: Proposal: 7.2b2 today \"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> \\n> sounds cool to me ...\\n> \\n\\nI am sorry about my pgindent run. If I had realized it would hold up\\nbeta for a day, I wouldn't have done it.\\n\\n-- \\n Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us\\n pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000\\n + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue\\n + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 6 Nov 2001 12:16:04 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: Proposal: 7.2b2 today\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us> writes:\\n> I am sorry about my pgindent run. If I had realized it would hold up\\n> beta for a day, I wouldn't have done it.\\n\\nWell, we needed the regression fix anyway. Not a problem.\\n\\n\\t\\t\\tregards, tom lane\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 06 Nov 2001 12:29:45 -0500\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: Proposal: 7.2b2 today \"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\nwhat about D'Arcy's python patch?\\n\\nOn Tue, 6 Nov 2001, Tom Lane wrote:\\n\\n> Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us> writes:\\n> > I am sorry about my pgindent run. If I had realized it would hold up\\n> > beta for a day, I wouldn't have done it.\\n>\\n> Well, we needed the regression fix anyway. Not a problem.\\n>\\n> \\t\\t\\tregards, tom lane\\n>\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 6 Nov 2001 12:48:14 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"\\\"Marc G. Fournier\\\" <scrappy@hub.org>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: Proposal: 7.2b2 today \"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> \\n> what about D'Arcy's python patch?\\n\\nI think it has to wait for review or 7.3.\\n\\n-- \\n Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us\\n pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000\\n + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue\\n + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 6 Nov 2001 12:49:19 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: Proposal: 7.2b2 today\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> Since Thomas just committed a horology regress test fix, the regression\\n> tests are broken on platforms that use variant horology test files.\\n> Give me an hour to do something about that, and then we can roll beta2.\\n\\nDone --- we're good to go, I think.\\n\\n\\t\\t\\tregards, tom lane\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 06 Nov 2001 13:05:20 -0500\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: Proposal: 7.2b2 today \"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> \\n> what about D'Arcy's python patch?\\n\\nI will work up the Open Items list today and we can see what needs to be\\nput into beta3, or rc1, or whatever. :-)\\n\\n-- \\n Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us\\n pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000\\n + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue\\n + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 6 Nov 2001 13:23:14 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: Proposal: 7.2b2 today\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\nthe patch adds a --with-python switch to confiugure, and appropriate lines\\nto the make files to compile it ... I would *like* to see it in beta2\\nunless someone can see a glaring error in it that would cause us to have\\nto delay beta2 ...\\n\\nits less then 50 lines ... cna you please take a quick peak at it adn\\napply it if you don't see anything jump out at you?\\n\\nOn Tue, 6 Nov 2001, Bruce Momjian wrote:\\n\\n> >\\n> > what about D'Arcy's python patch?\\n>\\n> I will work up the Open Items list today and we can see what needs to be\\n> put into beta3, or rc1, or whatever. :-)\\n>\\n> --\\n> Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us\\n> pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000\\n> + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue\\n> + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026\\n>\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 6 Nov 2001 13:43:07 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"\\\"Marc G. Fournier\\\" <scrappy@hub.org>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: Proposal: 7.2b2 today\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> \\n> the patch adds a --with-python switch to confiugure, and appropriate lines\\n> to the make files to compile it ... I would *like* to see it in beta2\\n> unless someone can see a glaring error in it that would cause us to have\\n> to delay beta2 ...\\n> \\n> its less then 50 lines ... cna you please take a quick peak at it adn\\n> apply it if you don't see anything jump out at you?\\n\\nUnfortunately I don't understand configure.in well enough to have any\\ncomment on the code. I recommend we make beta2 and give others time to\\nreview it. If it is OK, we can add it later. We do have some other\\nopen items like the Libpq signal handling and AIX compile so we are not\\ndone applying things yet anyway.\\n\\n-- \\n Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us\\n pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000\\n + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue\\n + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 6 Nov 2001 14:22:48 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: Proposal: 7.2b2 today\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\\"Marc G. Fournier\\\" <scrappy@hub.org> writes:\\n> what about D'Arcy's python patch?\\n\\nSince it's a configure/build thing, I'd want to see Peter E's reaction\\nto it before making a decision. I'd not suggest holding up beta2 for\\nit, anyway.\\n\\n\\t\\t\\tregards, tom lane\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 06 Nov 2001 14:29:22 -0500\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: Proposal: 7.2b2 today \"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"D'Arcy J.M. Cain writes:\\n\\n> I have a change I would like to discuss. It doesn't change the code\\n> base, only the build system. The patches I would like to commit follow\\n> this text. The only thing it does is create a config option to bytecode\\n> compile the Python modules.\\n\\nWe've seen such a patch before, but I'm still not convinced it works.\\nAccording to my knowledge, the pre-compiled bytecode files need to be\\ncreated after the source files have been installed in their final\\nlocation, because the file name and timestamp is encoded in the compiled\\nfile (it's sort of used as a cache file). While this can be accomplished\\nwith a different patch, it wouldn't really work when DESTDIR is used\\nbecause you'd create a \\\"dead\\\" cache file. In a sense, this operation is\\nlike running ldconfig -- it's outside the scope of the build system.\\nPackage managers typically put it in the \\\"post install\\\" section.\\n\\n> +# If python is enabled (above), then optionally byte-compile the modules.\\n> +AC_MSG_CHECKING([whether to byte-compile Python modules])\\n> +if test \\\"$with_python\\\" = yes; then\\n> + PGAC_ARG_BOOL(with, python_compile, no,\\n> + [ --with-python-compile byte-compile modules if Python is enabled])\\n\\n--enable\\n\\n> +else\\n> + with_python_compile=no\\n> +fi\\n> +AC_MSG_RESULT([$with_python_compile])\\n> +AC_SUBST([with_python_compile])\\n\\n> +%.pyc: %.py\\n> +\\tpython -c \\\"import py_compile; py_compile.compile(\\\\\\\"$<\\\\\\\")\\\"\\n> +\\n> +%.pyo: %.py\\n> +\\tpython -O -c \\\"import py_compile; py_compile.compile(\\\\\\\"$<\\\\\\\")\\\"\\n> +\\n\\n$(PYTHON)\\n\\n-- \\nPeter Eisentraut peter_e@gmx.net\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Wed, 7 Nov 2001 02:07:49 +0100 (CET)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: Proposal: 7.2b2 today\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Thus spake Marc G. Fournier\\n> the patch adds a --with-python switch to confiugure, and appropriate lines\\n> to the make files to compile it ... I would *like* to see it in beta2\\n> unless someone can see a glaring error in it that would cause us to have\\n> to delay beta2 ...\\n> \\n> its less then 50 lines ... cna you please take a quick peak at it adn\\n> apply it if you don't see anything jump out at you?\\n\\nI have one minor change to it. Where I call \\\"python\\\" to bytecode compile\\nit should be \\\"$(PYTHON)\\\" instead. If you want I can just commit the\\nchanges directly.\\n\\n-- \\nD'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy@{druid|vex}.net> | Democracy is three wolves\\nhttp://www.druid.net/darcy/ | and a sheep voting on\\n+1 416 425 1212 (DoD#0082) (eNTP) | what's for dinner.\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Wed, 7 Nov 2001 20:50:28 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"darcy@druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: Proposal: 7.2b2 today\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"* Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net> [011106 20:01]:\\n> D'Arcy J.M. Cain writes:\\n> > I have a change I would like to discuss. It doesn't change the code\\n> > base, only the build system. The patches I would like to commit follow\\n> > this text. The only thing it does is create a config option to bytecode\\n> > compile the Python modules.\\n> \\n> We've seen such a patch before, but I'm still not convinced it works.\\n> According to my knowledge, the pre-compiled bytecode files need to be\\n> created after the source files have been installed in their final\\n> location, because the file name and timestamp is encoded in the compiled\\n> file (it's sort of used as a cache file). While this can be accomplished\\n> with a different patch, it wouldn't really work when DESTDIR is used\\n> because you'd create a \\\"dead\\\" cache file. In a sense, this operation is\\n> like running ldconfig -- it's outside the scope of the build system.\\n> Package managers typically put it in the \\\"post install\\\" section.\\n\\nDo you have a reference for this? I tried looking for one but the only\\nthing I could find was http://www.python.org/doc/1.6/dist/built-dist.html\\nwhich suggests to me that they can be compiled before shipping which of\\ncourse certainly involves moving them. In any case NetBSD does this\\npatch before building and everything works there.\\n\\n-- \\nD'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy@{druid|vex}.net> | Democracy is three wolves\\nhttp://www.druid.net/darcy/ | and a sheep voting on\\n+1 416 425 1212 (DoD#0082) (eNTP) | what's for dinner.\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Wed, 20 Mar 2002 13:25:43 -0500\",\n \"msg_from\": \"\\\"D'Arcy J.M. Cain\\\" <darcy@druid.net>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: Proposal: 7.2b2 today\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"D'Arcy J.M. Cain writes:\\n\\n> Do you have a reference for this? I tried looking for one but the only\\n> thing I could find was http://www.python.org/doc/1.6/dist/built-dist.html\\n> which suggests to me that they can be compiled before shipping which of\\n> course certainly involves moving them. In any case NetBSD does this\\n> patch before building and everything works there.\\n\\nMy reference is Automake. They go out of their way to compile the Python\\nfiles at the right time. We could use this as a model.\\n\\nIt's easy to determine that the time stamp appears to be encoded into the\\ncompiled output file:\\n\\n$ cat test.py\\nprint \\\"test\\\"\\n$ python -c 'import py_compile; py_compile.compile(\\\"test.py\\\", \\\"test.pyc\\\")'\\n$ md5sum test.pyc\\na0e690271636fcbf067db628f9c7d0c3 test.pyc\\n$ python -c 'import py_compile; py_compile.compile(\\\"test.py\\\", \\\"test.pyc\\\")'\\n$ md5sum test.pyc\\na0e690271636fcbf067db628f9c7d0c3 test.pyc\\n$ touch test.py\\n$ python -c 'import py_compile; py_compile.compile(\\\"test.py\\\", \\\"test.pyc\\\")'\\n$ md5sum test.pyc\\n1d78ae79994b102c89a14a2dd2addc55 test.pyc\\n\\nWhat you need to do is to create the compiled files after you have\\ninstalled the original. Binary packaging probably preserves the time\\nstamps of the files, so that shouldn't be a problem. I withdraw that part\\nof the objection.\\n\\nAlso, I think if we add this feature, let's just make it the default and\\nnot add another configure option for it.\\n\\n-- \\nPeter Eisentraut peter_e@gmx.net\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:47:59 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: Proposal: 7.2b2 today\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> As far as I can tell, not capitalizing the first letter after a dash\\n> is the only inconsistency with Oracle's implementation of this function.\\n\\nWrong again. Oracle also capitalizes the first letter after a comma, \\nsemicolon, colon, period, and both a single and double quote. (And that's \\nall I've tested so far.)\\n\\nSo, I guess I need to write a program to test all possible combinations\\nto see how incompatible the function is.\\n\\nMaking this change will be a larger patch than I had initially anticipated.\\n\\nThat also brings into question whether this is really a bugfix or a\\nspecification change, a question which is relevant since we're in the \\nfeature freeze for 7.4.\\n--\\nMike Nolan \\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Wed, 9 Jul 2003 13:44:44 -0500 (CDT)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"nolan@celery.tssi.com\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: initcap incompatibility issue\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 nolan@celery.tssi.com wrote:\\n\\n> > As far as I can tell, not capitalizing the first letter after a dash\\n> > is the only inconsistency with Oracle's implementation of this function.\\n> \\n> Wrong again. Oracle also capitalizes the first letter after a comma, \\n> semicolon, colon, period, and both a single and double quote. (And that's \\n> all I've tested so far.)\\n> \\n> So, I guess I need to write a program to test all possible combinations\\n> to see how incompatible the function is.\\n> \\n> Making this change will be a larger patch than I had initially anticipated.\\n> \\n> That also brings into question whether this is really a bugfix or a\\n> specification change, a question which is relevant since we're in the \\n> feature freeze for 7.4.\\n\\nIt sounds like Oracle is simply regexing for anything that ISN'T a letter \\nto initcap right after it. If that's the case, you could just regex too.\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Wed, 9 Jul 2003 13:42:50 -0600 (MDT)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"\\\"scott.marlowe\\\" <scott.marlowe@ihs.com>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: initcap incompatibility issue\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\\"scott.marlowe\\\" <scott.marlowe@ihs.com> writes:\\n> On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 nolan@celery.tssi.com wrote:\\n>> Wrong again. Oracle also capitalizes the first letter after a comma, \\n>> semicolon, colon, period, and both a single and double quote. (And that's \\n>> all I've tested so far.)\\n\\n> It sounds like Oracle is simply regexing for anything that ISN'T a letter \\n> to initcap right after it. If that's the case, you could just regex too.\\n\\nOr more likely, use the appropriate ctype.h function (isalpha, probably).\\n\\n>> That also brings into question whether this is really a bugfix or a\\n>> specification change, a question which is relevant since we're in the \\n>> feature freeze for 7.4.\\n\\nAFAIK, our specification for this function is \\\"be like Oracle\\\", so it's\\na bug fix and fair game for 7.4. Of course, the sooner you get it in\\nthe more likely we'll see it that way ;-). Later in beta, only critical\\nbugfixes will be accepted, and this one surely ain't very critical.\\n\\n\\t\\t\\tregards, tom lane\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Wed, 09 Jul 2003 22:31:19 -0400\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: initcap incompatibility issue \"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> > It sounds like Oracle is simply regexing for anything that ISN'T a letter \\n> > to initcap right after it. If that's the case, you could just regex too.\\n> \\n> Or more likely, use the appropriate ctype.h function (isalpha, probably).\\n\\nHaving tested it, Oracle capitalizes after all non-alphanumeric characters,\\nso !isalnum() is the appropriate function. (That makes it a one-line \\npatch on 7.3.3, which I've already tested.)\\n\\n> AFAIK, our specification for this function is \\\"be like Oracle\\\", so it's\\n> a bug fix and fair game for 7.4. Of course, the sooner you get it in\\n> the more likely we'll see it that way ;-). Later in beta, only critical\\n> bugfixes will be accepted, and this one surely ain't very critical.\\n\\nNow if I can just get CVS working on Redhat 8 and remember how to build\\na patch, even a one-liner. :-)\\n--\\nMike Nolan\\n \\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Fri, 11 Jul 2003 01:34:48 -0500 (CDT)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"nolan@celery.tssi.com\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: initcap incompatibility issue\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":178,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"Defining CUSTOM_LDFLAGS in Makefile.custom does not have any\neffect on the compilation. I found that LDFLAGS is hardcoded\nin Makefile.global. Perhaps it would be a good idea to change\nthis? I had to edit Makefile.global and add '-pg' to LDFLAGS\nmanually.\n\nI thought it was about time to run a profile on the backend...\n\n/* m */\n","msg_date":"Tue, 20 Jan 1998 14:43:21 +0100","msg_from":"Mattias Kregert <matti@algonet.se>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Compiling postgresql with profiling"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Defining CUSTOM_LDFLAGS in Makefile.custom does not have any\\neffect on the compilation. I found that LDFLAGS is hardcoded\\nin Makefile.global. Perhaps it would be a good idea to change\\nthis? I had to edit Makefile.global and add '-pg' to LDFLAGS\\nmanually.\\n\\nI thought it was about time to run a profile on the backend...\\n\\n/* m */\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 20 Jan 1998 14:43:21 +0100\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Mattias Kregert <matti@algonet.se>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Compiling postgresql with profiling\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":179,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"PostgreSQL seem to have a lot of names;\n Postgres 95, Postgres, Pg, Pgsql ... All these names are used in\n FAQ, filenames, docs, installation info, messages etc.\n\nExamples:\n The backend executable is 'postgres', why not 'postgresql'?\n INSTALL: \"User postgres is the Postgres superuser\"?\n\nI think it would be a good idea to use only \"PostgreSQL\" in all\ndocs, file names and so on, and \"pgsql\" as the official abbrev.\n\nThis is one of the things new users notice and find strange.\nI know, because I did, and people I know did it too.\n\nAnother strange thing is the name \"postmaster\". Someone doing a 'ps'\nseeing this would probably think it is part of the email system.\nA better way would be to use 'postgresql' only, or perhaps with a\n'--master' option.\n\n/* m */\n","msg_date":"Tue, 20 Jan 1998 15:13:37 +0100","msg_from":"Mattias Kregert <matti@algonet.se>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Small changes for the \"no excuses\" release"},{"msg_contents":"> \n> PostgreSQL seem to have a lot of names;\n> Postgres 95, Postgres, Pg, Pgsql ... All these names are used in\n> FAQ, filenames, docs, installation info, messages etc.\n> \n> Examples:\n> The backend executable is 'postgres', why not 'postgresql'?\n> INSTALL: \"User postgres is the Postgres superuser\"?\n> \n> I think it would be a good idea to use only \"PostgreSQL\" in all\n> docs, file names and so on, and \"pgsql\" as the official abbrev.\n> \n> This is one of the things new users notice and find strange.\n> I know, because I did, and people I know did it too.\n\nAdded to TODO list.\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian | 830 Blythe Avenue\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026\n + If your life is a hard drive, | (610) 353-9879(w)\n + Christ can be your backup. | (610) 853-3000(h)\n","msg_date":"Sun, 15 Mar 1998 21:31:32 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Small changes for the \"no excuses\" release"},{"msg_contents":"> > PostgreSQL seem to have a lot of names;\n> > Postgres 95, Postgres, Pg, Pgsql ... All these names are used in\n> > FAQ, filenames, docs, installation info, messages etc.\n> >\n> > Examples:\n> > The backend executable is 'postgres', why not 'postgresql'?\n> > INSTALL: \"User postgres is the Postgres superuser\"?\n> >\n> > I think it would be a good idea to use only \"PostgreSQL\" in all\n> > docs, file names and so on, and \"pgsql\" as the official abbrev.\n> >\n> > This is one of the things new users notice and find strange.\n> > I know, because I did, and people I know did it too.\n> \n> Added to TODO list.\n\nFrankly, the voluminous docs, many adapted from the originals, seem to\nread better using \"Postgres\" rather than \"PostgreSQL\" or \"Postgres95\". I\nchanged 'em all after defining what each is in the introduction. Would\nbe a good bit of work to change them back, particularly since folks\naren't volunteering in droves for work on documentation...\n\n - Tom\n","msg_date":"Mon, 16 Mar 1998 06:04:11 +0000","msg_from":"\"Thomas G. Lockhart\" <lockhart@alumni.caltech.edu>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Small changes for the \"no excuses\" release"},{"msg_contents":"Thomas G. Lockhart wrote:\n>\n> Frankly, the voluminous docs, many adapted from the originals, seem to\n> read better using \"Postgres\" rather than \"PostgreSQL\" or \"Postgres95\". I\n> changed 'em all after defining what each is in the introduction. Would\n> be a good bit of work to change them back, particularly since folks\n> aren't volunteering in droves for work on documentation...\n> \n> - Tom\n\nWith sed doing all the work, \"a good bit\" would be something like\ntyping a couple of lines and hitting ENTER.\n\n/* m */\n","msg_date":"Mon, 16 Mar 1998 13:20:03 +0100","msg_from":"Mattias Kregert <matti@algonet.se>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: [DOCS] Re: [HACKERS] Small changes for the \"no excuses\" release"},{"msg_contents":"\nOn Mon, 16 Mar 1998, Thomas G. Lockhart wrote:\n\n> > > PostgreSQL seem to have a lot of names;\n> > > Postgres 95, Postgres, Pg, Pgsql ... All these names are used in\n> > > FAQ, filenames, docs, installation info, messages etc.\n> > >\n> > > Examples:\n> > > The backend executable is 'postgres', why not 'postgresql'?\n> > > INSTALL: \"User postgres is the Postgres superuser\"?\n> > >\n> > > I think it would be a good idea to use only \"PostgreSQL\" in all\n> > > docs, file names and so on, and \"pgsql\" as the official abbrev.\n> > >\n> > > This is one of the things new users notice and find strange.\n> > > I know, because I did, and people I know did it too.\n> > \n> > Added to TODO list.\n> \n> Frankly, the voluminous docs, many adapted from the originals, seem to\n> read better using \"Postgres\" rather than \"PostgreSQL\" or \"Postgres95\". I\n> changed 'em all after defining what each is in the introduction. Would\n> be a good bit of work to change them back, particularly since folks\n> aren't volunteering in droves for work on documentation...\n\nWell, I am working on the JDBC docs at the moment (when I can fit it in\nbetween everything else). I'm just about to plan some tutorials to go in\nas well.\n\n-- \nPeter T Mount petermount@earthling.net or pmount@maidast.demon.co.uk\nMain Homepage: http://www.demon.co.uk/finder\nWork Homepage: http://www.maidstone.gov.uk Work EMail: peter@maidstone.gov.uk\n\n\n","msg_date":"Wed, 18 Mar 1998 07:37:44 +0000 (GMT)","msg_from":"Peter T Mount <pgdocs@maidast.demon.co.uk>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [DOCS] Re: [HACKERS] Small changes for the \"no excuses\" release"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"PostgreSQL seem to have a lot of names;\\n Postgres 95, Postgres, Pg, Pgsql ... All these names are used in\\n FAQ, filenames, docs, installation info, messages etc.\\n\\nExamples:\\n The backend executable is 'postgres', why not 'postgresql'?\\n INSTALL: \\\"User postgres is the Postgres superuser\\\"?\\n\\nI think it would be a good idea to use only \\\"PostgreSQL\\\" in all\\ndocs, file names and so on, and \\\"pgsql\\\" as the official abbrev.\\n\\nThis is one of the things new users notice and find strange.\\nI know, because I did, and people I know did it too.\\n\\nAnother strange thing is the name \\\"postmaster\\\". Someone doing a 'ps'\\nseeing this would probably think it is part of the email system.\\nA better way would be to use 'postgresql' only, or perhaps with a\\n'--master' option.\\n\\n/* m */\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 20 Jan 1998 15:13:37 +0100\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Mattias Kregert <matti@algonet.se>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Small changes for the \\\"no excuses\\\" release\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> \\n> PostgreSQL seem to have a lot of names;\\n> Postgres 95, Postgres, Pg, Pgsql ... All these names are used in\\n> FAQ, filenames, docs, installation info, messages etc.\\n> \\n> Examples:\\n> The backend executable is 'postgres', why not 'postgresql'?\\n> INSTALL: \\\"User postgres is the Postgres superuser\\\"?\\n> \\n> I think it would be a good idea to use only \\\"PostgreSQL\\\" in all\\n> docs, file names and so on, and \\\"pgsql\\\" as the official abbrev.\\n> \\n> This is one of the things new users notice and find strange.\\n> I know, because I did, and people I know did it too.\\n\\nAdded to TODO list.\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian | 830 Blythe Avenue\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026\\n + If your life is a hard drive, | (610) 353-9879(w)\\n + Christ can be your backup. | (610) 853-3000(h)\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Sun, 15 Mar 1998 21:31:32 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Small changes for the \\\"no excuses\\\" release\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> > PostgreSQL seem to have a lot of names;\\n> > Postgres 95, Postgres, Pg, Pgsql ... All these names are used in\\n> > FAQ, filenames, docs, installation info, messages etc.\\n> >\\n> > Examples:\\n> > The backend executable is 'postgres', why not 'postgresql'?\\n> > INSTALL: \\\"User postgres is the Postgres superuser\\\"?\\n> >\\n> > I think it would be a good idea to use only \\\"PostgreSQL\\\" in all\\n> > docs, file names and so on, and \\\"pgsql\\\" as the official abbrev.\\n> >\\n> > This is one of the things new users notice and find strange.\\n> > I know, because I did, and people I know did it too.\\n> \\n> Added to TODO list.\\n\\nFrankly, the voluminous docs, many adapted from the originals, seem to\\nread better using \\\"Postgres\\\" rather than \\\"PostgreSQL\\\" or \\\"Postgres95\\\". I\\nchanged 'em all after defining what each is in the introduction. Would\\nbe a good bit of work to change them back, particularly since folks\\naren't volunteering in droves for work on documentation...\\n\\n - Tom\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 16 Mar 1998 06:04:11 +0000\",\n \"msg_from\": \"\\\"Thomas G. Lockhart\\\" <lockhart@alumni.caltech.edu>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Small changes for the \\\"no excuses\\\" release\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Thomas G. Lockhart wrote:\\n>\\n> Frankly, the voluminous docs, many adapted from the originals, seem to\\n> read better using \\\"Postgres\\\" rather than \\\"PostgreSQL\\\" or \\\"Postgres95\\\". I\\n> changed 'em all after defining what each is in the introduction. Would\\n> be a good bit of work to change them back, particularly since folks\\n> aren't volunteering in droves for work on documentation...\\n> \\n> - Tom\\n\\nWith sed doing all the work, \\\"a good bit\\\" would be something like\\ntyping a couple of lines and hitting ENTER.\\n\\n/* m */\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Mon, 16 Mar 1998 13:20:03 +0100\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Mattias Kregert <matti@algonet.se>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [DOCS] Re: [HACKERS] Small changes for the \\\"no excuses\\\" release\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\nOn Mon, 16 Mar 1998, Thomas G. Lockhart wrote:\\n\\n> > > PostgreSQL seem to have a lot of names;\\n> > > Postgres 95, Postgres, Pg, Pgsql ... All these names are used in\\n> > > FAQ, filenames, docs, installation info, messages etc.\\n> > >\\n> > > Examples:\\n> > > The backend executable is 'postgres', why not 'postgresql'?\\n> > > INSTALL: \\\"User postgres is the Postgres superuser\\\"?\\n> > >\\n> > > I think it would be a good idea to use only \\\"PostgreSQL\\\" in all\\n> > > docs, file names and so on, and \\\"pgsql\\\" as the official abbrev.\\n> > >\\n> > > This is one of the things new users notice and find strange.\\n> > > I know, because I did, and people I know did it too.\\n> > \\n> > Added to TODO list.\\n> \\n> Frankly, the voluminous docs, many adapted from the originals, seem to\\n> read better using \\\"Postgres\\\" rather than \\\"PostgreSQL\\\" or \\\"Postgres95\\\". I\\n> changed 'em all after defining what each is in the introduction. Would\\n> be a good bit of work to change them back, particularly since folks\\n> aren't volunteering in droves for work on documentation...\\n\\nWell, I am working on the JDBC docs at the moment (when I can fit it in\\nbetween everything else). I'm just about to plan some tutorials to go in\\nas well.\\n\\n-- \\nPeter T Mount petermount@earthling.net or pmount@maidast.demon.co.uk\\nMain Homepage: http://www.demon.co.uk/finder\\nWork Homepage: http://www.maidstone.gov.uk Work EMail: peter@maidstone.gov.uk\\n\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Wed, 18 Mar 1998 07:37:44 +0000 (GMT)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Peter T Mount <pgdocs@maidast.demon.co.uk>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [DOCS] Re: [HACKERS] Small changes for the \\\"no excuses\\\" release\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":180,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"\nHello,\n\nAfter installing the latest cvs tree this morning, I cannot use \ncreateuser and createdb. They break when trying to run psql. I can\nconnect with psql to the template1 database after setting up hba to use\npassword authentication and starting it with the -u option. \n\nDoes the hba still use trust and ident as well? Is there a primer on the\nnew authentication scheme?\n\nI am moving up from 6.1.0 on Linux.\n\nThanks,\n\n\n-James\n\n","msg_date":"Tue, 20 Jan 1998 14:30:36 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"James Hughes <jamesh@interpath.com>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Authentication Woes"},{"msg_contents":"On Tue, 20 Jan 1998, James Hughes wrote:\n\n> \n> Hello,\n> \n> After installing the latest cvs tree this morning, I cannot use \n> createuser and createdb. They break when trying to run psql. I can\n> connect with psql to the template1 database after setting up hba to use\n> password authentication and starting it with the -u option. \n> \n> Does the hba still use trust and ident as well? Is there a primer on the\n> new authentication scheme?\n> \n> I am moving up from 6.1.0 on Linux.\n\n\tv6.1.0 would have used TCP/IP for communications exclusively...\nv6.3 moved to using Unix Domain Sockets as default, with TCP/IP disabled\nby default. To \"mirror\" the old behavior, add the -i option to your\nstartup script and youshould be okay...\n\n\n","msg_date":"Tue, 20 Jan 1998 14:43:51 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Authentication Woes"},{"msg_contents":"\n\nOn Tue, 20 Jan 1998, The Hermit Hacker wrote:\n\n> \n> \tv6.1.0 would have used TCP/IP for communications exclusively...\n> v6.3 moved to using Unix Domain Sockets as default, with TCP/IP disabled\n> by default. To \"mirror\" the old behavior, add the -i option to your\n> startup script and youshould be okay...\n> \n> \n\nOK, I should have said that the only way I can run psql is after making\nan entry in pg_hba.conf to enable passwords, starting the postmaster\nwith the \"-i\" option then using the \"-u\" option with psql. The\ncreateuser and createdb scripts will not run regardless.\n\nMaybe I have other problems?? I am going to dig a little bit deeper :)\n\n\n-James\n\n","msg_date":"Tue, 20 Jan 1998 15:13:29 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"James Hughes <jamesh@interpath.com>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Authentication Woes"},{"msg_contents":"On Tue, 20 Jan 1998, James Hughes wrote:\n\n> \n> \n> On Tue, 20 Jan 1998, The Hermit Hacker wrote:\n> \n> > \n> > \tv6.1.0 would have used TCP/IP for communications exclusively...\n> > v6.3 moved to using Unix Domain Sockets as default, with TCP/IP disabled\n> > by default. To \"mirror\" the old behavior, add the -i option to your\n> > startup script and youshould be okay...\n> > \n> > \n> \n> OK, I should have said that the only way I can run psql is after making\n> an entry in pg_hba.conf to enable passwords, starting the postmaster\n> with the \"-i\" option then using the \"-u\" option with psql. The\n> createuser and createdb scripts will not run regardless.\n> \n> Maybe I have other problems?? I am going to dig a little bit deeper :)\n\nI have the same problem with 6.2.1. Authentication using passwords works, \nbut createuser (and probably the other scripts) fail. 'createuser -a \npassword' fails to use -u to actually ask for username/password. To \nprevent having to type this 10 times during createuser, you could get it \nfrom the script and then do 'echo \"username\\npassword\" | psql ...'. I \ntried this on another program (one of mine which uses the \nprompt_for_password function from psql) and it works.\n\nMaarten\n\n_____________________________________________________________________________\n| Maarten Boekhold, Faculty of Electrical Engineering TU Delft, NL |\n| Computer Architecture and Digital Technique section |\n| M.Boekhold@et.tudelft.nl |\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n","msg_date":"Wed, 21 Jan 1998 09:35:27 +0100 (MET)","msg_from":"Maarten Boekhold <maartenb@dutepp0.et.tudelft.nl>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Authentication Woes"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\nHello,\\n\\nAfter installing the latest cvs tree this morning, I cannot use \\ncreateuser and createdb. They break when trying to run psql. I can\\nconnect with psql to the template1 database after setting up hba to use\\npassword authentication and starting it with the -u option. \\n\\nDoes the hba still use trust and ident as well? Is there a primer on the\\nnew authentication scheme?\\n\\nI am moving up from 6.1.0 on Linux.\\n\\nThanks,\\n\\n\\n-James\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 20 Jan 1998 14:30:36 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"James Hughes <jamesh@interpath.com>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Authentication Woes\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"On Tue, 20 Jan 1998, James Hughes wrote:\\n\\n> \\n> Hello,\\n> \\n> After installing the latest cvs tree this morning, I cannot use \\n> createuser and createdb. They break when trying to run psql. I can\\n> connect with psql to the template1 database after setting up hba to use\\n> password authentication and starting it with the -u option. \\n> \\n> Does the hba still use trust and ident as well? Is there a primer on the\\n> new authentication scheme?\\n> \\n> I am moving up from 6.1.0 on Linux.\\n\\n\\tv6.1.0 would have used TCP/IP for communications exclusively...\\nv6.3 moved to using Unix Domain Sockets as default, with TCP/IP disabled\\nby default. To \\\"mirror\\\" the old behavior, add the -i option to your\\nstartup script and youshould be okay...\\n\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 20 Jan 1998 14:43:51 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Authentication Woes\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\n\\nOn Tue, 20 Jan 1998, The Hermit Hacker wrote:\\n\\n> \\n> \\tv6.1.0 would have used TCP/IP for communications exclusively...\\n> v6.3 moved to using Unix Domain Sockets as default, with TCP/IP disabled\\n> by default. To \\\"mirror\\\" the old behavior, add the -i option to your\\n> startup script and youshould be okay...\\n> \\n> \\n\\nOK, I should have said that the only way I can run psql is after making\\nan entry in pg_hba.conf to enable passwords, starting the postmaster\\nwith the \\\"-i\\\" option then using the \\\"-u\\\" option with psql. The\\ncreateuser and createdb scripts will not run regardless.\\n\\nMaybe I have other problems?? I am going to dig a little bit deeper :)\\n\\n\\n-James\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 20 Jan 1998 15:13:29 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"James Hughes <jamesh@interpath.com>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Authentication Woes\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"On Tue, 20 Jan 1998, James Hughes wrote:\\n\\n> \\n> \\n> On Tue, 20 Jan 1998, The Hermit Hacker wrote:\\n> \\n> > \\n> > \\tv6.1.0 would have used TCP/IP for communications exclusively...\\n> > v6.3 moved to using Unix Domain Sockets as default, with TCP/IP disabled\\n> > by default. To \\\"mirror\\\" the old behavior, add the -i option to your\\n> > startup script and youshould be okay...\\n> > \\n> > \\n> \\n> OK, I should have said that the only way I can run psql is after making\\n> an entry in pg_hba.conf to enable passwords, starting the postmaster\\n> with the \\\"-i\\\" option then using the \\\"-u\\\" option with psql. The\\n> createuser and createdb scripts will not run regardless.\\n> \\n> Maybe I have other problems?? I am going to dig a little bit deeper :)\\n\\nI have the same problem with 6.2.1. Authentication using passwords works, \\nbut createuser (and probably the other scripts) fail. 'createuser -a \\npassword' fails to use -u to actually ask for username/password. To \\nprevent having to type this 10 times during createuser, you could get it \\nfrom the script and then do 'echo \\\"username\\\\npassword\\\" | psql ...'. I \\ntried this on another program (one of mine which uses the \\nprompt_for_password function from psql) and it works.\\n\\nMaarten\\n\\n_____________________________________________________________________________\\n| Maarten Boekhold, Faculty of Electrical Engineering TU Delft, NL |\\n| Computer Architecture and Digital Technique section |\\n| M.Boekhold@et.tudelft.nl |\\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Wed, 21 Jan 1998 09:35:27 +0100 (MET)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Maarten Boekhold <maartenb@dutepp0.et.tudelft.nl>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Authentication Woes\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":181,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"I have completed adding Var.varlevelsup, and have added code to the\nparser to properly set the field. It will allow correlated references\nin the WHERE clause, but not in the target list.\n\nI did not make many changes in the optimizer or executor because I\nbelieved varlevelsup would be zero by the time it got to that point.\nFor example, there are cases where the optimizer calls getrelid(Var *,\nRangeTable), and of course, because we don't have a parentQuery* in the\nQuery, this will ignore the varlevelsup and only look in the current\nrange table.\n\nI did make a few additions of varlevelsup in cases where they were\nchecking for equality or copying Var records. I made changes in all the\nsupport code, like /nodes handling.\n\nLet me know if you need additional changes. makeVar takes a new\nvarlevelsup parameter, and I made changes to all calls.\n\nI have tested the code, and debug output shows varlevelsup being set\ncorrectly.\n\nThe only open item is how to do rewrite. I will check into this later,\nprobably in a week. It will work by Feb 1.\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:18:54 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"subselects"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"I have completed adding Var.varlevelsup, and have added code to the\\nparser to properly set the field. It will allow correlated references\\nin the WHERE clause, but not in the target list.\\n\\nI did not make many changes in the optimizer or executor because I\\nbelieved varlevelsup would be zero by the time it got to that point.\\nFor example, there are cases where the optimizer calls getrelid(Var *,\\nRangeTable), and of course, because we don't have a parentQuery* in the\\nQuery, this will ignore the varlevelsup and only look in the current\\nrange table.\\n\\nI did make a few additions of varlevelsup in cases where they were\\nchecking for equality or copying Var records. I made changes in all the\\nsupport code, like /nodes handling.\\n\\nLet me know if you need additional changes. makeVar takes a new\\nvarlevelsup parameter, and I made changes to all calls.\\n\\nI have tested the code, and debug output shows varlevelsup being set\\ncorrectly.\\n\\nThe only open item is how to do rewrite. I will check into this later,\\nprobably in a week. It will work by Feb 1.\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:18:54 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"subselects\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":182,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"\nWe are only going to have subselects in the WHERE clause, not in the\ntarget list, right?\n\nThe standard says we can have them either place, but I didn't think we\nwere implementing the target list subselects.\n\nIs that correct?\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:24:11 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"subselects"},{"msg_contents":"Bruce Momjian wrote:\n> \n> We are only going to have subselects in the WHERE clause, not in the\n> target list, right?\n> \n> The standard says we can have them either place, but I didn't think we\n> were implementing the target list subselects.\n> \n> Is that correct?\n\nYes, this is right for 6.3. I hope that we'll support subselects in \ntarget list, FROM, etc in future.\n\nBTW, I'm going to implement subselect in (let's say) \"natural\" way -\nwithout substitution of parent query relations into subselect and so on,\nbut by execution of (correlated) subqueries for each upper query row\n(may be with cacheing of results in hash table for better performance).\nSure, this is much more clean way and much more clear how to do this.\nThis seems like SQL-func way, but funcs start/run/stop Executor each time\nwhen called and this breaks performance. \n\nVadim\n","msg_date":"Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:10:22 +0700","msg_from":"\"Vadim B. Mikheev\" <vadim@sable.krasnoyarsk.su>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: subselects"},{"msg_contents":"> > Is that correct?\n> \n> Yes, this is right for 6.3. I hope that we'll support subselects in \n> target list, FROM, etc in future.\n\nOK.\n\n> \n> BTW, I'm going to implement subselect in (let's say) \"natural\" way -\n> without substitution of parent query relations into subselect and so on,\n> but by execution of (correlated) subqueries for each upper query row\n> (may be with cacheing of results in hash table for better performance).\n> Sure, this is much more clean way and much more clear how to do this.\n> This seems like SQL-func way, but funcs start/run/stop Executor each time\n> when called and this breaks performance. \n\nSure, lets see how it performs. Most correlated subqueries are very\nslow in commercial databases too. I guess I thought you could do the\nwhole subquery, then sort on the correlated columns, which allows quick\naccess to the results, but if the subquery references only a small part\nof the upper query's output, it is quicker to do it your way.\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:29:57 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: subselects"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\nWe are only going to have subselects in the WHERE clause, not in the\\ntarget list, right?\\n\\nThe standard says we can have them either place, but I didn't think we\\nwere implementing the target list subselects.\\n\\nIs that correct?\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:24:11 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"subselects\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Bruce Momjian wrote:\\n> \\n> We are only going to have subselects in the WHERE clause, not in the\\n> target list, right?\\n> \\n> The standard says we can have them either place, but I didn't think we\\n> were implementing the target list subselects.\\n> \\n> Is that correct?\\n\\nYes, this is right for 6.3. I hope that we'll support subselects in \\ntarget list, FROM, etc in future.\\n\\nBTW, I'm going to implement subselect in (let's say) \\\"natural\\\" way -\\nwithout substitution of parent query relations into subselect and so on,\\nbut by execution of (correlated) subqueries for each upper query row\\n(may be with cacheing of results in hash table for better performance).\\nSure, this is much more clean way and much more clear how to do this.\\nThis seems like SQL-func way, but funcs start/run/stop Executor each time\\nwhen called and this breaks performance. \\n\\nVadim\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:10:22 +0700\",\n \"msg_from\": \"\\\"Vadim B. Mikheev\\\" <vadim@sable.krasnoyarsk.su>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: subselects\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> > Is that correct?\\n> \\n> Yes, this is right for 6.3. I hope that we'll support subselects in \\n> target list, FROM, etc in future.\\n\\nOK.\\n\\n> \\n> BTW, I'm going to implement subselect in (let's say) \\\"natural\\\" way -\\n> without substitution of parent query relations into subselect and so on,\\n> but by execution of (correlated) subqueries for each upper query row\\n> (may be with cacheing of results in hash table for better performance).\\n> Sure, this is much more clean way and much more clear how to do this.\\n> This seems like SQL-func way, but funcs start/run/stop Executor each time\\n> when called and this breaks performance. \\n\\nSure, lets see how it performs. Most correlated subqueries are very\\nslow in commercial databases too. I guess I thought you could do the\\nwhole subquery, then sort on the correlated columns, which allows quick\\naccess to the results, but if the subquery references only a small part\\nof the upper query's output, it is quicker to do it your way.\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:29:57 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: subselects\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":183,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"OK, I now have rewrites working with subselects. At least, I think it\nwill work. No way to test it yet.\n\nIt basically rewrites all the subqueries first, then the main query. It\ndoes the lowest queries first. I do this so if a rewrite adds a\nsubquery as part of the rewrite, the new subquery does not get\nprocessed.\n\nFor each query rewritten, I have code to go into each SubLink and recode\nany correlated variables that reference the outer query level I am\nrewriting. Pretty slick.\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Tue, 20 Jan 1998 23:21:22 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"subselects"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"OK, I now have rewrites working with subselects. At least, I think it\\nwill work. No way to test it yet.\\n\\nIt basically rewrites all the subqueries first, then the main query. It\\ndoes the lowest queries first. I do this so if a rewrite adds a\\nsubquery as part of the rewrite, the new subquery does not get\\nprocessed.\\n\\nFor each query rewritten, I have code to go into each SubLink and recode\\nany correlated variables that reference the outer query level I am\\nrewriting. Pretty slick.\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Tue, 20 Jan 1998 23:21:22 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"subselects\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":184,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"Bruce wrote:\n> I have completed adding Var.varlevelsup, and have added code to the\n> parser to properly set the field. It will allow correlated references\n> in the WHERE clause, but not in the target list.\n\nselect i2.ip1, i1.ip4 from nameip i1 where ip1 = (select ip1 from nameip\ni2);\n 522: Table (i2) not selected in query.\nselect i1.ip4 from nameip i1 where ip1 = (select i1.ip1 from nameip i2);\n 284: A subquery has returned not exactly one row.\nselect i1.ip4 from nameip i1 where ip1 = (select i1.ip1 from nameip i2\nwhere name='zeus');\n 2 row(s) retrieved.\n\nInformix allows correlated references in the target list. It also allows\nsubselects in the target list as in:\nselect i1.ip4, (select i1.ip1 from nameip i2) from nameip i1;\n 284: A subquery has returned not exactly one row.\nselect i1.ip4, (select i1.ip1 from nameip i2 where name='zeus') from\nnameip i1;\n 2 row(s) retrieved.\n\nIs this what you were looking for ?\n\nAndreas\n","msg_date":"Wed, 21 Jan 1998 09:42:52 +0100","msg_from":"Zeugswetter Andreas DBT <Andreas.Zeugswetter@telecom.at>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: subselects"},{"msg_contents":"> \n> Bruce wrote:\n> > I have completed adding Var.varlevelsup, and have added code to the\n> > parser to properly set the field. It will allow correlated references\n> > in the WHERE clause, but not in the target list.\n> \n> select i2.ip1, i1.ip4 from nameip i1 where ip1 = (select ip1 from nameip\n> i2);\n> 522: Table (i2) not selected in query.\n> select i1.ip4 from nameip i1 where ip1 = (select i1.ip1 from nameip i2);\n> 284: A subquery has returned not exactly one row.\n> select i1.ip4 from nameip i1 where ip1 = (select i1.ip1 from nameip i2\n> where name='zeus');\n> 2 row(s) retrieved.\n> \n> Informix allows correlated references in the target list. It also allows\n> subselects in the target list as in:\n> select i1.ip4, (select i1.ip1 from nameip i2) from nameip i1;\n> 284: A subquery has returned not exactly one row.\n> select i1.ip4, (select i1.ip1 from nameip i2 where name='zeus') from\n> nameip i1;\n> 2 row(s) retrieved.\n> \n> Is this what you were looking for ?\n> \n> Andreas\n> \n> \n\nYes, I know other engines support subqueries and references in the\ntarget list. I want to know if we are going to do that for 6.3. \nPersonally, I have never seen much use for it.\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:09:37 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Re: subselects"},{"msg_contents":"On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Bruce Momjian wrote:\n\n> > \n> > Bruce wrote:\n> > > I have completed adding Var.varlevelsup, and have added code to the\n> > > parser to properly set the field. It will allow correlated references\n> > > in the WHERE clause, but not in the target list.\n> > \n> > select i2.ip1, i1.ip4 from nameip i1 where ip1 = (select ip1 from nameip\n> > i2);\n> > 522: Table (i2) not selected in query.\n> > select i1.ip4 from nameip i1 where ip1 = (select i1.ip1 from nameip i2);\n> > 284: A subquery has returned not exactly one row.\n> > select i1.ip4 from nameip i1 where ip1 = (select i1.ip1 from nameip i2\n> > where name='zeus');\n> > 2 row(s) retrieved.\n> > \n> > Informix allows correlated references in the target list. It also allows\n> > subselects in the target list as in:\n> > select i1.ip4, (select i1.ip1 from nameip i2) from nameip i1;\n> > 284: A subquery has returned not exactly one row.\n> > select i1.ip4, (select i1.ip1 from nameip i2 where name='zeus') from\n> > nameip i1;\n> > 2 row(s) retrieved.\n> > \n> > Is this what you were looking for ?\n> > \n> > Andreas\n> > \n> > \n> \n> Yes, I know other engines support subqueries and references in the\n> target list. I want to know if we are going to do that for 6.3. \n> Personally, I have never seen much use for it.\n\n\tIf its easy to add in the next couple of days, sure, go for\nit...but can someone explain to me *why* you would use a subselect in the\ntarget list? I've actually never seen that before :9\n\n\n","msg_date":"Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:18:29 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Re: subselects"},{"msg_contents":"> > Yes, I know other engines support subqueries and references in the\n> > target list. I want to know if we are going to do that for 6.3. \n> > Personally, I have never seen much use for it.\n> \n> \tIf its easy to add in the next couple of days, sure, go for\n> it...but can someone explain to me *why* you would use a subselect in the\n> target list? I've actually never seen that before :9\n\nI have no idea why someone would want to do that. I have enough trouble\nfiguring out how the engine is going to execute normal queries, let\nalone strange ones like that.\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Wed, 21 Jan 1998 11:03:19 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Re: subselects"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Bruce wrote:\\n> I have completed adding Var.varlevelsup, and have added code to the\\n> parser to properly set the field. It will allow correlated references\\n> in the WHERE clause, but not in the target list.\\n\\nselect i2.ip1, i1.ip4 from nameip i1 where ip1 = (select ip1 from nameip\\ni2);\\n 522: Table (i2) not selected in query.\\nselect i1.ip4 from nameip i1 where ip1 = (select i1.ip1 from nameip i2);\\n 284: A subquery has returned not exactly one row.\\nselect i1.ip4 from nameip i1 where ip1 = (select i1.ip1 from nameip i2\\nwhere name='zeus');\\n 2 row(s) retrieved.\\n\\nInformix allows correlated references in the target list. It also allows\\nsubselects in the target list as in:\\nselect i1.ip4, (select i1.ip1 from nameip i2) from nameip i1;\\n 284: A subquery has returned not exactly one row.\\nselect i1.ip4, (select i1.ip1 from nameip i2 where name='zeus') from\\nnameip i1;\\n 2 row(s) retrieved.\\n\\nIs this what you were looking for ?\\n\\nAndreas\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Wed, 21 Jan 1998 09:42:52 +0100\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Zeugswetter Andreas DBT <Andreas.Zeugswetter@telecom.at>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: subselects\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> \\n> Bruce wrote:\\n> > I have completed adding Var.varlevelsup, and have added code to the\\n> > parser to properly set the field. It will allow correlated references\\n> > in the WHERE clause, but not in the target list.\\n> \\n> select i2.ip1, i1.ip4 from nameip i1 where ip1 = (select ip1 from nameip\\n> i2);\\n> 522: Table (i2) not selected in query.\\n> select i1.ip4 from nameip i1 where ip1 = (select i1.ip1 from nameip i2);\\n> 284: A subquery has returned not exactly one row.\\n> select i1.ip4 from nameip i1 where ip1 = (select i1.ip1 from nameip i2\\n> where name='zeus');\\n> 2 row(s) retrieved.\\n> \\n> Informix allows correlated references in the target list. It also allows\\n> subselects in the target list as in:\\n> select i1.ip4, (select i1.ip1 from nameip i2) from nameip i1;\\n> 284: A subquery has returned not exactly one row.\\n> select i1.ip4, (select i1.ip1 from nameip i2 where name='zeus') from\\n> nameip i1;\\n> 2 row(s) retrieved.\\n> \\n> Is this what you were looking for ?\\n> \\n> Andreas\\n> \\n> \\n\\nYes, I know other engines support subqueries and references in the\\ntarget list. I want to know if we are going to do that for 6.3. \\nPersonally, I have never seen much use for it.\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:09:37 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Re: subselects\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Bruce Momjian wrote:\\n\\n> > \\n> > Bruce wrote:\\n> > > I have completed adding Var.varlevelsup, and have added code to the\\n> > > parser to properly set the field. It will allow correlated references\\n> > > in the WHERE clause, but not in the target list.\\n> > \\n> > select i2.ip1, i1.ip4 from nameip i1 where ip1 = (select ip1 from nameip\\n> > i2);\\n> > 522: Table (i2) not selected in query.\\n> > select i1.ip4 from nameip i1 where ip1 = (select i1.ip1 from nameip i2);\\n> > 284: A subquery has returned not exactly one row.\\n> > select i1.ip4 from nameip i1 where ip1 = (select i1.ip1 from nameip i2\\n> > where name='zeus');\\n> > 2 row(s) retrieved.\\n> > \\n> > Informix allows correlated references in the target list. It also allows\\n> > subselects in the target list as in:\\n> > select i1.ip4, (select i1.ip1 from nameip i2) from nameip i1;\\n> > 284: A subquery has returned not exactly one row.\\n> > select i1.ip4, (select i1.ip1 from nameip i2 where name='zeus') from\\n> > nameip i1;\\n> > 2 row(s) retrieved.\\n> > \\n> > Is this what you were looking for ?\\n> > \\n> > Andreas\\n> > \\n> > \\n> \\n> Yes, I know other engines support subqueries and references in the\\n> target list. I want to know if we are going to do that for 6.3. \\n> Personally, I have never seen much use for it.\\n\\n\\tIf its easy to add in the next couple of days, sure, go for\\nit...but can someone explain to me *why* you would use a subselect in the\\ntarget list? I've actually never seen that before :9\\n\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:18:29 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Re: subselects\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> > Yes, I know other engines support subqueries and references in the\\n> > target list. I want to know if we are going to do that for 6.3. \\n> > Personally, I have never seen much use for it.\\n> \\n> \\tIf its easy to add in the next couple of days, sure, go for\\n> it...but can someone explain to me *why* you would use a subselect in the\\n> target list? I've actually never seen that before :9\\n\\nI have no idea why someone would want to do that. I have enough trouble\\nfiguring out how the engine is going to execute normal queries, let\\nalone strange ones like that.\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Wed, 21 Jan 1998 11:03:19 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Re: subselects\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":185,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"> > In all tests crash_me crashed backend server - postgres but postmaster\n> > still run and allow to work with all dbs. I run crash_me several times\n> > with postmaster started once upon boot time.\n> \n> \tIs there any indication as to why the crash?\n\nI can tell indirect only using limits/pg.cfg where crash_me logs all\nresults.\nEvery time it runs it checks this file to set limits in the test to avoid\ncrash.\nI think the best way to look PGSQL source code and set up checkups\nfor these limits. So :\n\n1. output:\nquery size: Broken pipe\n\npg.cfg:\nquery_size=4096 # query size\n\n2. output:\nconstant string size in where:\nFatal error: Can't check 'constant string size in where' for limit=1\nerror: PQexec() -- There is no connection to the backend.\n\npg.cfg:\nwhere_string_size=4062 # constant string size in where\n\n3. output:\ntables in join:\nFatal error: Can't check 'tables in join' for limit=1\nerror: PQexec() -- There is no connection to the backend.\n\npg.cfg:\njoin_tables=0 # tables in join\n\n4. output:\ntable name length:\nFatal error: Can't check 'table name length' for limit=1\nerror: PQexec() -- There is no connection to the backend.\n\npg.cfg:\nmax_table_name=31 # table name length\n\n5. output:\nmax table row length (without blobs):\nFatal error: Can't check 'max table row length (without blobs)' for limit=1\nerror: PQexec() -- There is no connection to the backend.\n\npg.cfg:\nmax_row_length=7969 # max table row length (without blobs)\n\nWhen I run tests first time I crashed at \"column name length: 31\" also.\nNow it runs OK - 8-[.\n\nAnd I cann't indicate couse of the problem with \"index length\" - it run out\nof memory.\n\nIgor Sysoev\n\n","msg_date":"Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:34:25 +0300","msg_from":"\"Igor Sysoev\" <igor@nitek.ru>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: [QUESTIONS] Business cases"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> > In all tests crash_me crashed backend server - postgres but postmaster\\n> > still run and allow to work with all dbs. I run crash_me several times\\n> > with postmaster started once upon boot time.\\n> \\n> \\tIs there any indication as to why the crash?\\n\\nI can tell indirect only using limits/pg.cfg where crash_me logs all\\nresults.\\nEvery time it runs it checks this file to set limits in the test to avoid\\ncrash.\\nI think the best way to look PGSQL source code and set up checkups\\nfor these limits. So :\\n\\n1. output:\\nquery size: Broken pipe\\n\\npg.cfg:\\nquery_size=4096 # query size\\n\\n2. output:\\nconstant string size in where:\\nFatal error: Can't check 'constant string size in where' for limit=1\\nerror: PQexec() -- There is no connection to the backend.\\n\\npg.cfg:\\nwhere_string_size=4062 # constant string size in where\\n\\n3. output:\\ntables in join:\\nFatal error: Can't check 'tables in join' for limit=1\\nerror: PQexec() -- There is no connection to the backend.\\n\\npg.cfg:\\njoin_tables=0 # tables in join\\n\\n4. output:\\ntable name length:\\nFatal error: Can't check 'table name length' for limit=1\\nerror: PQexec() -- There is no connection to the backend.\\n\\npg.cfg:\\nmax_table_name=31 # table name length\\n\\n5. output:\\nmax table row length (without blobs):\\nFatal error: Can't check 'max table row length (without blobs)' for limit=1\\nerror: PQexec() -- There is no connection to the backend.\\n\\npg.cfg:\\nmax_row_length=7969 # max table row length (without blobs)\\n\\nWhen I run tests first time I crashed at \\\"column name length: 31\\\" also.\\nNow it runs OK - 8-[.\\n\\nAnd I cann't indicate couse of the problem with \\\"index length\\\" - it run out\\nof memory.\\n\\nIgor Sysoev\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:34:25 +0300\",\n \"msg_from\": \"\\\"Igor Sysoev\\\" <igor@nitek.ru>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [QUESTIONS] Business cases\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":186,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"> We are only going to have subselects in the WHERE clause, not in the\n> target list, right?\n> \n> The standard says we can have them either place, but I didn't think we\n> were implementing the target list subselects.\n> \n> Is that correct?\n\nWhat about the HAVING clause? Currently not in, but someone here wants\nto take a stab at it.\n\nDoesn't seem that tough...loops over the tuples returned from the group\nby node and checks the expression such as \"x > 5\" or \"x = (subselect)\".\n\nThe cost analysis in the optimizer could be tricky come to think of it.\nIf a subselect has a HAVING, would have to have a formula to determine\nthe selectiveness. Hmmm...\n\ndarrenk\n","msg_date":"Wed, 21 Jan 1998 09:13:05 -0500","msg_from":"darrenk@insightdist.com (Darren King)","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] subselects"},{"msg_contents":"> \n> > We are only going to have subselects in the WHERE clause, not in the\n> > target list, right?\n> > \n> > The standard says we can have them either place, but I didn't think we\n> > were implementing the target list subselects.\n> > \n> > Is that correct?\n> \n> What about the HAVING clause? Currently not in, but someone here wants\n> to take a stab at it.\n> \n> Doesn't seem that tough...loops over the tuples returned from the group\n> by node and checks the expression such as \"x > 5\" or \"x = (subselect)\".\n> \n> The cost analysis in the optimizer could be tricky come to think of it.\n> If a subselect has a HAVING, would have to have a formula to determine\n> the selectiveness. Hmmm...\n\nCode is in the grammar, but have to add Aggreg code to parser and\noptimizer needs a qual restriction on a Aggreg field. You really just\nneed to be able to put a restriction on an aggregate in the WHERE\nclause, but have it evaluated AFTER the GROUP BY.\n\nWell, I have just done lots of work on fixing aggregate issues, so maybe\nI should give it a try, but not for 6.3. Run out of non-business-work\ntime this month. Boss is going to figure it out soon. :-) (Hey, I am\nthe boss.)\n\nGive it a stab. I can help you out. I can even review your patches and\ngive you ideas.\n\nYou will have to enable HAVING in gram.y, and have analyze.c call\ntransformExpr() for the HAVING clause. And have rewrite do the HAVING\nclause just like it does the qual. Then, in the upper optimizer, you\nwill see where aggregates are handled in planner.c. You will need to\nput the HAVING restriction above the GROUPBY and AGG nodes, so you can\ndo the restriction AFTER those have been computed. The tricky part is\nthat we only allow aggregates in the target list, so in this case you\nwant an aggregate that is not in the target list.\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:56:37 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] subselects"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> We are only going to have subselects in the WHERE clause, not in the\\n> target list, right?\\n> \\n> The standard says we can have them either place, but I didn't think we\\n> were implementing the target list subselects.\\n> \\n> Is that correct?\\n\\nWhat about the HAVING clause? Currently not in, but someone here wants\\nto take a stab at it.\\n\\nDoesn't seem that tough...loops over the tuples returned from the group\\nby node and checks the expression such as \\\"x > 5\\\" or \\\"x = (subselect)\\\".\\n\\nThe cost analysis in the optimizer could be tricky come to think of it.\\nIf a subselect has a HAVING, would have to have a formula to determine\\nthe selectiveness. Hmmm...\\n\\ndarrenk\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Wed, 21 Jan 1998 09:13:05 -0500\",\n \"msg_from\": \"darrenk@insightdist.com (Darren King)\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] subselects\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> \\n> > We are only going to have subselects in the WHERE clause, not in the\\n> > target list, right?\\n> > \\n> > The standard says we can have them either place, but I didn't think we\\n> > were implementing the target list subselects.\\n> > \\n> > Is that correct?\\n> \\n> What about the HAVING clause? Currently not in, but someone here wants\\n> to take a stab at it.\\n> \\n> Doesn't seem that tough...loops over the tuples returned from the group\\n> by node and checks the expression such as \\\"x > 5\\\" or \\\"x = (subselect)\\\".\\n> \\n> The cost analysis in the optimizer could be tricky come to think of it.\\n> If a subselect has a HAVING, would have to have a formula to determine\\n> the selectiveness. Hmmm...\\n\\nCode is in the grammar, but have to add Aggreg code to parser and\\noptimizer needs a qual restriction on a Aggreg field. You really just\\nneed to be able to put a restriction on an aggregate in the WHERE\\nclause, but have it evaluated AFTER the GROUP BY.\\n\\nWell, I have just done lots of work on fixing aggregate issues, so maybe\\nI should give it a try, but not for 6.3. Run out of non-business-work\\ntime this month. Boss is going to figure it out soon. :-) (Hey, I am\\nthe boss.)\\n\\nGive it a stab. I can help you out. I can even review your patches and\\ngive you ideas.\\n\\nYou will have to enable HAVING in gram.y, and have analyze.c call\\ntransformExpr() for the HAVING clause. And have rewrite do the HAVING\\nclause just like it does the qual. Then, in the upper optimizer, you\\nwill see where aggregates are handled in planner.c. You will need to\\nput the HAVING restriction above the GROUPBY and AGG nodes, so you can\\ndo the restriction AFTER those have been computed. The tricky part is\\nthat we only allow aggregates in the target list, so in this case you\\nwant an aggregate that is not in the target list.\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:56:37 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] subselects\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":187,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"Hi\n\nI find next bug:\nin query \"select a,b,count(*) from q group by a,b;\" postgres do:\na\t,b\t,count(*)\n5\t2\t3\t???\n5\t2\t2\t???\n6\t3\t6\n.................\n\ntable - about 10000-30000 tuples.\n\nPS: i use linux 2.0.33 & solaris 2.5.1\n\n-- \nSY, Serj\n","msg_date":"Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:56:50 +0300","msg_from":"Serj <fenix@am.ring.ru>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"group by bug in 6.2.1 & 6.3 -snapshot"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Hi\\n\\nI find next bug:\\nin query \\\"select a,b,count(*) from q group by a,b;\\\" postgres do:\\na\\t,b\\t,count(*)\\n5\\t2\\t3\\t???\\n5\\t2\\t2\\t???\\n6\\t3\\t6\\n.................\\n\\ntable - about 10000-30000 tuples.\\n\\nPS: i use linux 2.0.33 & solaris 2.5.1\\n\\n-- \\nSY, Serj\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:56:50 +0300\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Serj <fenix@am.ring.ru>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"group by bug in 6.2.1 & 6.3 -snapshot\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":188,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"> \n> \n> Anyone know what the heap_modifytuple error refers to down below?\n> \n> The error is generated around line 884 of\n> backend/access/common/heaptuple.c, where 'repl[attoff]' != 'r' \n> \n> Haven't had a chance to test this under FreeBSD yet, will hopefully try it\n> out tonight...\n> \n> \n\nI am initdb'ing all the time here.\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:34:45 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: [PORTS] -current version won't initdb under i386_solaris..."},{"msg_contents":"On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Bruce Momjian wrote:\n\n> > \n> > \n> > Anyone know what the heap_modifytuple error refers to down below?\n> > \n> > The error is generated around line 884 of\n> > backend/access/common/heaptuple.c, where 'repl[attoff]' != 'r' \n> > \n> > Haven't had a chance to test this under FreeBSD yet, will hopefully try it\n> > out tonight...\n> > \n> > \n> \n> I am initdb'ing all the time here.\n\n\tBruce...help me out here. *rofl* I tried adding a '-d 3' to the\ninitdb BACKENDARGS variable, but it didn't seem to produce any noticable\nerrors :(\n\n\tThoughts as to what else I shoudl try to narrow it down?\n\n\n","msg_date":"Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:39:54 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [PORTS] -current version won't initdb under i386_solaris..."}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> \\n> \\n> Anyone know what the heap_modifytuple error refers to down below?\\n> \\n> The error is generated around line 884 of\\n> backend/access/common/heaptuple.c, where 'repl[attoff]' != 'r' \\n> \\n> Haven't had a chance to test this under FreeBSD yet, will hopefully try it\\n> out tonight...\\n> \\n> \\n\\nI am initdb'ing all the time here.\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:34:45 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [PORTS] -current version won't initdb under i386_solaris...\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Bruce Momjian wrote:\\n\\n> > \\n> > \\n> > Anyone know what the heap_modifytuple error refers to down below?\\n> > \\n> > The error is generated around line 884 of\\n> > backend/access/common/heaptuple.c, where 'repl[attoff]' != 'r' \\n> > \\n> > Haven't had a chance to test this under FreeBSD yet, will hopefully try it\\n> > out tonight...\\n> > \\n> > \\n> \\n> I am initdb'ing all the time here.\\n\\n\\tBruce...help me out here. *rofl* I tried adding a '-d 3' to the\\ninitdb BACKENDARGS variable, but it didn't seem to produce any noticable\\nerrors :(\\n\\n\\tThoughts as to what else I shoudl try to narrow it down?\\n\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:39:54 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [PORTS] -current version won't initdb under i386_solaris...\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":189,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"\n> \tIf its easy to add in the next couple of days, sure, go for\n> it...but can someone explain to me *why* you would use a subselect in\n> the\n> target list? I've actually never seen that before :9\n> \n> \nI think it is always possible to rewrite a 'subselect in the target\nlist' as a join.\nSo if it is complicated to implement now, I'd say leave it out, as there\nis no functionality aspect\nI could think of.\n\nAndreas\n\n\n","msg_date":"Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:00:37 +0100","msg_from":"Zeugswetter Andreas DBT <Andreas.Zeugswetter@telecom.at>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"AW: [HACKERS] Re: subselects"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\n> \\tIf its easy to add in the next couple of days, sure, go for\\n> it...but can someone explain to me *why* you would use a subselect in\\n> the\\n> target list? I've actually never seen that before :9\\n> \\n> \\nI think it is always possible to rewrite a 'subselect in the target\\nlist' as a join.\\nSo if it is complicated to implement now, I'd say leave it out, as there\\nis no functionality aspect\\nI could think of.\\n\\nAndreas\\n\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:00:37 +0100\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Zeugswetter Andreas DBT <Andreas.Zeugswetter@telecom.at>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"AW: [HACKERS] Re: subselects\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":190,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"\nMoved to pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org, where it should have been moved\n*ages* ago\n\n\nOn Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Igor Sysoev wrote:\n\n> > The result you're seeing is, IMHO, *correct*.\n> > \n> > The first row in the table, when the update is undertaken, produces a \n> > duplicate key. So you are getting a complaint which you SHOULD receive,\n> > unless I'm misunderstanding how this is supposed to actually work.\n> > \n> > The \"update\" statement, if it is behaving as an atomic thing, effectively\n> \n> > \"snapshots\" the table and then performs the update. Since the first \n> > attempted update is on the first row it \"finds\", and adding one to it \n> > produces \"3\", which is already on file, I believe it should bitch - \n> > and it does.\n> \n> I'm not SQL guru and cannot tell how it must be.\n> But it seems that Oracle and Solid allows update primary keys such way.\n\nConnected to:\nOracle7 Server Release 7.3.3.0.0 - Production Release\nWith the distributed, replication and parallel query options\nPL/SQL Release 2.3.3.0.0 - Production\n\nSQL> create table one ( a integer primary key not null );\n\nTable created.\n\nSQL> insert into one values (2);\n\n1 row created.\n\nSQL> insert into one values (3);\n\n1 row created.\n\nSQL> insert into one values (1);\n\n1 row created.\n\nSQL> select * from one;\n\n A\n----------\n 2\n 3\n 1\n\nSQL> update one set a=a+1;\n\n3 rows updated.\n\nSQL> select * from one;\n\n A\n----------\n 3\n 4\n 2\n\nSQL> \n\n\n","msg_date":"Wed, 21 Jan 1998 13:01:10 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: [QUESTIONS] Business cases"},{"msg_contents":" > \n> \n> Moved to pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org, where it should have been moved\n> *ages* ago\n> \n> Connected to:\n> Oracle7 Server Release 7.3.3.0.0 - Production Release\n> With the distributed, replication and parallel query options\n> PL/SQL Release 2.3.3.0.0 - Production\n> \n> SQL> create table one ( a integer primary key not null );\n> \n> Table created.\n> \n> SQL> insert into one values (2);\n> \n> 1 row created.\n> \n> SQL> insert into one values (3);\n> \n> 1 row created.\n> \n> SQL> insert into one values (1);\n> \n> 1 row created.\n> \n> SQL> select * from one;\n> \n> A\n> ----------\n> 2\n> 3\n> 1\n> \n> SQL> update one set a=a+1;\n> \n> 3 rows updated.\n> \n> SQL> select * from one;\n> \n> A\n> ----------\n> 3\n> 4\n> 2\n> \n\nMan, how do you implement that behavior? No wonder MySQL fails on it\ntoo.\n\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Wed, 21 Jan 1998 13:35:38 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Re: [QUESTIONS] Business cases"},{"msg_contents":"On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Bruce Momjian wrote:\n\n> > \n> > \n> > Moved to pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org, where it should have been moved\n> > *ages* ago\n> > \n> > Connected to:\n> > Oracle7 Server Release 7.3.3.0.0 - Production Release\n> > With the distributed, replication and parallel query options\n> > PL/SQL Release 2.3.3.0.0 - Production\n> > \n> > SQL> create table one ( a integer primary key not null );\n> > \n> > Table created.\n> > \n> > SQL> insert into one values (2);\n> > \n> > 1 row created.\n> > \n> > SQL> insert into one values (3);\n> > \n> > 1 row created.\n> > \n> > SQL> insert into one values (1);\n> > \n> > 1 row created.\n> > \n> > SQL> select * from one;\n> > \n> > A\n> > ----------\n> > 2\n> > 3\n> > 1\n> > \n> > SQL> update one set a=a+1;\n> > \n> > 3 rows updated.\n> > \n> > SQL> select * from one;\n> > \n> > A\n> > ----------\n> > 3\n> > 4\n> > 2\n> > \n> \n> Man, how do you implement that behavior? No wonder MySQL fails on it\n> too.\n\n\tI don't know...the one suggestion that was made seemed to make\nabout the most sense...\n\n\tIf update is atomic, then it should allow you to change all the\nresultant fields and then try to commit it. After all the fields are\nchanged, then it becomes 3,4,2 instead of 2,3,1, and, therefore, is all\nunique...\n\n\n","msg_date":"Wed, 21 Jan 1998 13:38:07 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Re: [QUESTIONS] Business cases"},{"msg_contents":"The Hermit Hacker wrote:\n> \n> \n> Moved to pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org, where it should have been moved\n> *ages* ago\n> \n> \n> On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Igor Sysoev wrote:\n> \n> > > The result you're seeing is, IMHO, *correct*.\n> > > \n> > > The first row in the table, when the update is undertaken, produces a \n> > > duplicate key. So you are getting a complaint which you SHOULD receive,\n> > > unless I'm misunderstanding how this is supposed to actually work.\n> > > \n> > > The \"update\" statement, if it is behaving as an atomic thing, effectively\n> > \n> > > \"snapshots\" the table and then performs the update. Since the first \n> > > attempted update is on the first row it \"finds\", and adding one to it \n> > > produces \"3\", which is already on file, I believe it should bitch - \n> > > and it does.\n> > \n> > I'm not SQL guru and cannot tell how it must be.\n> > But it seems that Oracle and Solid allows update primary keys such way.\n> \n> Connected to:\n> Oracle7 Server Release 7.3.3.0.0 - Production Release\n> With the distributed, replication and parallel query options\n> PL/SQL Release 2.3.3.0.0 - Production\n> \n> SQL> create table one ( a integer primary key not null );\n> \n> Table created.\n> \n> SQL> insert into one values (2);\n> \n> 1 row created.\n> \n> SQL> insert into one values (3);\n> \n> 1 row created.\n> \n> SQL> insert into one values (1);\n> \n> 1 row created.\n> \n> SQL> select * from one;\n> \n> A\n> ----------\n> 2\n> 3\n> 1\n> \n> SQL> update one set a=a+1;\n> \n> 3 rows updated.\n> \n> SQL> select * from one;\n> \n> A\n> ----------\n> 3\n> 4\n> 2\n> \n> SQL> \n\nI have been \"lurking\" on the pgsql-hackers list for a couple of days,\nbut thought I'd help where I can. I tried your above example on\nSybase, and got the same results. The only difference was that the\nitems were always returned from the table \"one\" in sorted order rather\nthan in insertion order.\n\nI also tried a slight modification to your query:\n\nupdate one set a=a+1 where a<3;\n\nThis produces an error as would be expected:\n\nAttempt to insert duplicate key row in object 'one' with unique index\n'one_a_8473420831'\nCommand has been aborted.\n(0 rows affected)\n\n\nOcie Mitchell\n\n","msg_date":"Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:15:13 -0800 (PST)","msg_from":"ocie@paracel.com","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Re: [QUESTIONS] Business cases"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\nMoved to pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org, where it should have been moved\\n*ages* ago\\n\\n\\nOn Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Igor Sysoev wrote:\\n\\n> > The result you're seeing is, IMHO, *correct*.\\n> > \\n> > The first row in the table, when the update is undertaken, produces a \\n> > duplicate key. So you are getting a complaint which you SHOULD receive,\\n> > unless I'm misunderstanding how this is supposed to actually work.\\n> > \\n> > The \\\"update\\\" statement, if it is behaving as an atomic thing, effectively\\n> \\n> > \\\"snapshots\\\" the table and then performs the update. Since the first \\n> > attempted update is on the first row it \\\"finds\\\", and adding one to it \\n> > produces \\\"3\\\", which is already on file, I believe it should bitch - \\n> > and it does.\\n> \\n> I'm not SQL guru and cannot tell how it must be.\\n> But it seems that Oracle and Solid allows update primary keys such way.\\n\\nConnected to:\\nOracle7 Server Release 7.3.3.0.0 - Production Release\\nWith the distributed, replication and parallel query options\\nPL/SQL Release 2.3.3.0.0 - Production\\n\\nSQL> create table one ( a integer primary key not null );\\n\\nTable created.\\n\\nSQL> insert into one values (2);\\n\\n1 row created.\\n\\nSQL> insert into one values (3);\\n\\n1 row created.\\n\\nSQL> insert into one values (1);\\n\\n1 row created.\\n\\nSQL> select * from one;\\n\\n A\\n----------\\n 2\\n 3\\n 1\\n\\nSQL> update one set a=a+1;\\n\\n3 rows updated.\\n\\nSQL> select * from one;\\n\\n A\\n----------\\n 3\\n 4\\n 2\\n\\nSQL> \\n\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Wed, 21 Jan 1998 13:01:10 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [QUESTIONS] Business cases\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \" > \\n> \\n> Moved to pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org, where it should have been moved\\n> *ages* ago\\n> \\n> Connected to:\\n> Oracle7 Server Release 7.3.3.0.0 - Production Release\\n> With the distributed, replication and parallel query options\\n> PL/SQL Release 2.3.3.0.0 - Production\\n> \\n> SQL> create table one ( a integer primary key not null );\\n> \\n> Table created.\\n> \\n> SQL> insert into one values (2);\\n> \\n> 1 row created.\\n> \\n> SQL> insert into one values (3);\\n> \\n> 1 row created.\\n> \\n> SQL> insert into one values (1);\\n> \\n> 1 row created.\\n> \\n> SQL> select * from one;\\n> \\n> A\\n> ----------\\n> 2\\n> 3\\n> 1\\n> \\n> SQL> update one set a=a+1;\\n> \\n> 3 rows updated.\\n> \\n> SQL> select * from one;\\n> \\n> A\\n> ----------\\n> 3\\n> 4\\n> 2\\n> \\n\\nMan, how do you implement that behavior? No wonder MySQL fails on it\\ntoo.\\n\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Wed, 21 Jan 1998 13:35:38 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Re: [QUESTIONS] Business cases\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Bruce Momjian wrote:\\n\\n> > \\n> > \\n> > Moved to pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org, where it should have been moved\\n> > *ages* ago\\n> > \\n> > Connected to:\\n> > Oracle7 Server Release 7.3.3.0.0 - Production Release\\n> > With the distributed, replication and parallel query options\\n> > PL/SQL Release 2.3.3.0.0 - Production\\n> > \\n> > SQL> create table one ( a integer primary key not null );\\n> > \\n> > Table created.\\n> > \\n> > SQL> insert into one values (2);\\n> > \\n> > 1 row created.\\n> > \\n> > SQL> insert into one values (3);\\n> > \\n> > 1 row created.\\n> > \\n> > SQL> insert into one values (1);\\n> > \\n> > 1 row created.\\n> > \\n> > SQL> select * from one;\\n> > \\n> > A\\n> > ----------\\n> > 2\\n> > 3\\n> > 1\\n> > \\n> > SQL> update one set a=a+1;\\n> > \\n> > 3 rows updated.\\n> > \\n> > SQL> select * from one;\\n> > \\n> > A\\n> > ----------\\n> > 3\\n> > 4\\n> > 2\\n> > \\n> \\n> Man, how do you implement that behavior? No wonder MySQL fails on it\\n> too.\\n\\n\\tI don't know...the one suggestion that was made seemed to make\\nabout the most sense...\\n\\n\\tIf update is atomic, then it should allow you to change all the\\nresultant fields and then try to commit it. After all the fields are\\nchanged, then it becomes 3,4,2 instead of 2,3,1, and, therefore, is all\\nunique...\\n\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Wed, 21 Jan 1998 13:38:07 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Re: [QUESTIONS] Business cases\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"The Hermit Hacker wrote:\\n> \\n> \\n> Moved to pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org, where it should have been moved\\n> *ages* ago\\n> \\n> \\n> On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Igor Sysoev wrote:\\n> \\n> > > The result you're seeing is, IMHO, *correct*.\\n> > > \\n> > > The first row in the table, when the update is undertaken, produces a \\n> > > duplicate key. So you are getting a complaint which you SHOULD receive,\\n> > > unless I'm misunderstanding how this is supposed to actually work.\\n> > > \\n> > > The \\\"update\\\" statement, if it is behaving as an atomic thing, effectively\\n> > \\n> > > \\\"snapshots\\\" the table and then performs the update. Since the first \\n> > > attempted update is on the first row it \\\"finds\\\", and adding one to it \\n> > > produces \\\"3\\\", which is already on file, I believe it should bitch - \\n> > > and it does.\\n> > \\n> > I'm not SQL guru and cannot tell how it must be.\\n> > But it seems that Oracle and Solid allows update primary keys such way.\\n> \\n> Connected to:\\n> Oracle7 Server Release 7.3.3.0.0 - Production Release\\n> With the distributed, replication and parallel query options\\n> PL/SQL Release 2.3.3.0.0 - Production\\n> \\n> SQL> create table one ( a integer primary key not null );\\n> \\n> Table created.\\n> \\n> SQL> insert into one values (2);\\n> \\n> 1 row created.\\n> \\n> SQL> insert into one values (3);\\n> \\n> 1 row created.\\n> \\n> SQL> insert into one values (1);\\n> \\n> 1 row created.\\n> \\n> SQL> select * from one;\\n> \\n> A\\n> ----------\\n> 2\\n> 3\\n> 1\\n> \\n> SQL> update one set a=a+1;\\n> \\n> 3 rows updated.\\n> \\n> SQL> select * from one;\\n> \\n> A\\n> ----------\\n> 3\\n> 4\\n> 2\\n> \\n> SQL> \\n\\nI have been \\\"lurking\\\" on the pgsql-hackers list for a couple of days,\\nbut thought I'd help where I can. I tried your above example on\\nSybase, and got the same results. The only difference was that the\\nitems were always returned from the table \\\"one\\\" in sorted order rather\\nthan in insertion order.\\n\\nI also tried a slight modification to your query:\\n\\nupdate one set a=a+1 where a<3;\\n\\nThis produces an error as would be expected:\\n\\nAttempt to insert duplicate key row in object 'one' with unique index\\n'one_a_8473420831'\\nCommand has been aborted.\\n(0 rows affected)\\n\\n\\nOcie Mitchell\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:15:13 -0800 (PST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"ocie@paracel.com\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Re: [QUESTIONS] Business cases\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":191,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"Do people want the overhead of char(), varchar(), and text to be reduced\nfrom 4-bytes to 2-bytes. We store the length in this overhead, but\nsince we have a size limit on tuple size, we can't have a field over 8k\nin size anyway. Even if we up that to 32k for 6.3, we still only use 2\nbytes.\n\nI have added it to the TODO list. Most of the code already supports it\nby using VARSIZE and VARDATA macros. Once the structure size changes,\nthe macros change too. The only issue is places where they take the\nfirst four bytes of the variable-length type and cast it to an int32,\nwhich will not work in this case. We have to change this so it uses the\nmacros too.\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:29:03 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"varchar(), text,char() overhead"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Do people want the overhead of char(), varchar(), and text to be reduced\\nfrom 4-bytes to 2-bytes. We store the length in this overhead, but\\nsince we have a size limit on tuple size, we can't have a field over 8k\\nin size anyway. Even if we up that to 32k for 6.3, we still only use 2\\nbytes.\\n\\nI have added it to the TODO list. Most of the code already supports it\\nby using VARSIZE and VARDATA macros. Once the structure size changes,\\nthe macros change too. The only issue is places where they take the\\nfirst four bytes of the variable-length type and cast it to an int32,\\nwhich will not work in this case. We have to change this so it uses the\\nmacros too.\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:29:03 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"varchar(), text,char() overhead\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":192,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"> Do people want the overhead of char(), varchar(), and text to be reduced\n> from 4-bytes to 2-bytes. We store the length in this overhead, but\n> since we have a size limit on tuple size, we can't have a field over 8k\n> in size anyway. Even if we up that to 32k for 6.3, we still only use 2\n> bytes.\n> \n> I have added it to the TODO list. Most of the code already supports it\n> by using VARSIZE and VARDATA macros. Once the structure size changes,\n> the macros change too. The only issue is places where they take the\n> first four bytes of the variable-length type and cast it to an int32,\n> which will not work in this case. We have to change this so it uses the\n> macros too.\n\nWould be a nice space-saver if you have tables with many small text fields.\n\nDig out that old message of mine concerning block size and check out item #4.\n\nExcerpted below if you've finally deleted it... :) :)\n\n> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 13:38:10 -0500\n> From: aixssd!darrenk (Darren King)\n> Subject: [HACKERS] Max size of data types and tuples.\n> ...\n> 4. Since only 13 bits are needed for storing the size of these\n> textual fields in a tuple, could PostgreSql use a 16-bit int to\n> store it? Currently, the size is padded to four bytes in the\n> tuple and this eats space if you have many textual fields.\n> Without further digging, I'm assuming that the size is double-word\n> aligned so that the actual text starts on a double-word boundary.\n> ...\n\ndarrenk\n","msg_date":"Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:14:52 -0500","msg_from":"darrenk@insightdist.com (Darren King)","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] varchar(), text,char() overhead"},{"msg_contents":"> > macros too.\n> \n> Would be a nice space-saver if you have tables with many small text fields.\n> \n> Dig out that old message of mine concerning block size and check out item #4.\n> \n> Excerpted below if you've finally deleted it... :) :)\n> \n> > Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 13:38:10 -0500\n> > From: aixssd!darrenk (Darren King)\n> > Subject: [HACKERS] Max size of data types and tuples.\n> > ...\n> > 4. Since only 13 bits are needed for storing the size of these\n> > textual fields in a tuple, could PostgreSql use a 16-bit int to\n> > store it? Currently, the size is padded to four bytes in the\n> > tuple and this eats space if you have many textual fields.\n> > Without further digging, I'm assuming that the size is double-word\n> > aligned so that the actual text starts on a double-word boundary.\n> > ...\n\nI had forgotten about your mention of this. I am running some tests\nnow, and things look promising. However, if we go to 64k or 128k\ntuples, we would be in trouble. (We can do 64k tuples by changing the\n'special variable' length value from -1 to 0.\n\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:38:07 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] varchar(), text,char() overhead"},{"msg_contents":"> \n> I had forgotten about your mention of this. I am running some tests\n> now, and things look promising. However, if we go to 64k or 128k\n> tuples, we would be in trouble. (We can do 64k tuples by changing the\n> 'special variable' length value from -1 to 0.\n> \n\nI am not going to make any changes to the variable length overhead for\nchar(), varchar(), and text at this time. It is too close to beta. I\nwill keep the item on the TODO list, and we can hash it out later.\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Wed, 21 Jan 1998 20:06:11 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] varchar(), text,char() overhead"},{"msg_contents":"Bruce Momjian wrote:\n> \n> > > macros too.\n> >\n> > Would be a nice space-saver if you have tables with many small text fields.\n> >\n> > Dig out that old message of mine concerning block size and check out item #4.\n> >\n> > Excerpted below if you've finally deleted it... :) :)\n> >\n> > > Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 13:38:10 -0500\n> > > From: aixssd!darrenk (Darren King)\n> > > Subject: [HACKERS] Max size of data types and tuples.\n> > > ...\n> > > 4. Since only 13 bits are needed for storing the size of these\n> > > textual fields in a tuple, could PostgreSql use a 16-bit int to\n> > > store it? Currently, the size is padded to four bytes in the\n> > > tuple and this eats space if you have many textual fields.\n> > > Without further digging, I'm assuming that the size is double-word\n> > > aligned so that the actual text starts on a double-word boundary.\n> > > ...\n> \n> I had forgotten about your mention of this. I am running some tests\n> now, and things look promising. However, if we go to 64k or 128k\n> tuples, we would be in trouble. (We can do 64k tuples by changing the\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nAlso, multi-representation feature allows to have 2Gb in varlena fields.\n\n> 'special variable' length value from -1 to 0.\n\nYes, it's way.\n\nVadim\n","msg_date":"Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:40:30 +0700","msg_from":"\"Vadim B. Mikheev\" <vadim@sable.krasnoyarsk.su>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] varchar(), text,char() overhead"},{"msg_contents":"> > I had forgotten about your mention of this. I am running some tests\n> > now, and things look promising. However, if we go to 64k or 128k\n> > tuples, we would be in trouble. (We can do 64k tuples by changing the\n> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n> Also, multi-representation feature allows to have 2Gb in varlena fields.\n\nWhat is multi-representation feature? Large objects?\n\n\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Wed, 21 Jan 1998 22:05:41 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] varchar(), text,char() overhead"},{"msg_contents":"Bruce Momjian wrote:\n> \n> > > I had forgotten about your mention of this. I am running some tests\n> > > now, and things look promising. However, if we go to 64k or 128k\n> > > tuples, we would be in trouble. (We can do 64k tuples by changing the\n> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n> > Also, multi-representation feature allows to have 2Gb in varlena fields.\n> \n> What is multi-representation feature? Large objects?\n\nYes. Server could store varlena fields in LO when size of field or\ntuple at whole is too big to be stored in relation blocks. \nThis allows to have tuples much longer than data blocks.\nThis is also Ok for performance sometime (if big varlenas are not used\nin WHERE they could be not read from disk for each tuple; if UPDATE don't\nchange out-stored varlenas they could be not stored twice).\n\nWe could use vl_len < 0 for out-stored varlenas: vl_len = -1000\ncould mean that size of data is 1000 bytes, data stored in LO and \nLO' id (oid?) is in vl_dat. It seems easy to implement (without\noptimization of access to data).\n\nVadim\n","msg_date":"Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:47:58 +0700","msg_from":"\"Vadim B. Mikheev\" <vadim@sable.krasnoyarsk.su>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] varchar(), text,char() overhead"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> Do people want the overhead of char(), varchar(), and text to be reduced\\n> from 4-bytes to 2-bytes. We store the length in this overhead, but\\n> since we have a size limit on tuple size, we can't have a field over 8k\\n> in size anyway. Even if we up that to 32k for 6.3, we still only use 2\\n> bytes.\\n> \\n> I have added it to the TODO list. Most of the code already supports it\\n> by using VARSIZE and VARDATA macros. Once the structure size changes,\\n> the macros change too. The only issue is places where they take the\\n> first four bytes of the variable-length type and cast it to an int32,\\n> which will not work in this case. We have to change this so it uses the\\n> macros too.\\n\\nWould be a nice space-saver if you have tables with many small text fields.\\n\\nDig out that old message of mine concerning block size and check out item #4.\\n\\nExcerpted below if you've finally deleted it... :) :)\\n\\n> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 13:38:10 -0500\\n> From: aixssd!darrenk (Darren King)\\n> Subject: [HACKERS] Max size of data types and tuples.\\n> ...\\n> 4. Since only 13 bits are needed for storing the size of these\\n> textual fields in a tuple, could PostgreSql use a 16-bit int to\\n> store it? Currently, the size is padded to four bytes in the\\n> tuple and this eats space if you have many textual fields.\\n> Without further digging, I'm assuming that the size is double-word\\n> aligned so that the actual text starts on a double-word boundary.\\n> ...\\n\\ndarrenk\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:14:52 -0500\",\n \"msg_from\": \"darrenk@insightdist.com (Darren King)\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] varchar(), text,char() overhead\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> > macros too.\\n> \\n> Would be a nice space-saver if you have tables with many small text fields.\\n> \\n> Dig out that old message of mine concerning block size and check out item #4.\\n> \\n> Excerpted below if you've finally deleted it... :) :)\\n> \\n> > Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 13:38:10 -0500\\n> > From: aixssd!darrenk (Darren King)\\n> > Subject: [HACKERS] Max size of data types and tuples.\\n> > ...\\n> > 4. Since only 13 bits are needed for storing the size of these\\n> > textual fields in a tuple, could PostgreSql use a 16-bit int to\\n> > store it? Currently, the size is padded to four bytes in the\\n> > tuple and this eats space if you have many textual fields.\\n> > Without further digging, I'm assuming that the size is double-word\\n> > aligned so that the actual text starts on a double-word boundary.\\n> > ...\\n\\nI had forgotten about your mention of this. I am running some tests\\nnow, and things look promising. However, if we go to 64k or 128k\\ntuples, we would be in trouble. (We can do 64k tuples by changing the\\n'special variable' length value from -1 to 0.\\n\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:38:07 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] varchar(), text,char() overhead\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> \\n> I had forgotten about your mention of this. I am running some tests\\n> now, and things look promising. However, if we go to 64k or 128k\\n> tuples, we would be in trouble. (We can do 64k tuples by changing the\\n> 'special variable' length value from -1 to 0.\\n> \\n\\nI am not going to make any changes to the variable length overhead for\\nchar(), varchar(), and text at this time. It is too close to beta. I\\nwill keep the item on the TODO list, and we can hash it out later.\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Wed, 21 Jan 1998 20:06:11 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] varchar(), text,char() overhead\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Bruce Momjian wrote:\\n> \\n> > > macros too.\\n> >\\n> > Would be a nice space-saver if you have tables with many small text fields.\\n> >\\n> > Dig out that old message of mine concerning block size and check out item #4.\\n> >\\n> > Excerpted below if you've finally deleted it... :) :)\\n> >\\n> > > Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 13:38:10 -0500\\n> > > From: aixssd!darrenk (Darren King)\\n> > > Subject: [HACKERS] Max size of data types and tuples.\\n> > > ...\\n> > > 4. Since only 13 bits are needed for storing the size of these\\n> > > textual fields in a tuple, could PostgreSql use a 16-bit int to\\n> > > store it? Currently, the size is padded to four bytes in the\\n> > > tuple and this eats space if you have many textual fields.\\n> > > Without further digging, I'm assuming that the size is double-word\\n> > > aligned so that the actual text starts on a double-word boundary.\\n> > > ...\\n> \\n> I had forgotten about your mention of this. I am running some tests\\n> now, and things look promising. However, if we go to 64k or 128k\\n> tuples, we would be in trouble. (We can do 64k tuples by changing the\\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\\nAlso, multi-representation feature allows to have 2Gb in varlena fields.\\n\\n> 'special variable' length value from -1 to 0.\\n\\nYes, it's way.\\n\\nVadim\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:40:30 +0700\",\n \"msg_from\": \"\\\"Vadim B. Mikheev\\\" <vadim@sable.krasnoyarsk.su>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] varchar(), text,char() overhead\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> > I had forgotten about your mention of this. I am running some tests\\n> > now, and things look promising. However, if we go to 64k or 128k\\n> > tuples, we would be in trouble. (We can do 64k tuples by changing the\\n> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\\n> Also, multi-representation feature allows to have 2Gb in varlena fields.\\n\\nWhat is multi-representation feature? Large objects?\\n\\n\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Wed, 21 Jan 1998 22:05:41 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] varchar(), text,char() overhead\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Bruce Momjian wrote:\\n> \\n> > > I had forgotten about your mention of this. I am running some tests\\n> > > now, and things look promising. However, if we go to 64k or 128k\\n> > > tuples, we would be in trouble. (We can do 64k tuples by changing the\\n> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\\n> > Also, multi-representation feature allows to have 2Gb in varlena fields.\\n> \\n> What is multi-representation feature? Large objects?\\n\\nYes. Server could store varlena fields in LO when size of field or\\ntuple at whole is too big to be stored in relation blocks. \\nThis allows to have tuples much longer than data blocks.\\nThis is also Ok for performance sometime (if big varlenas are not used\\nin WHERE they could be not read from disk for each tuple; if UPDATE don't\\nchange out-stored varlenas they could be not stored twice).\\n\\nWe could use vl_len < 0 for out-stored varlenas: vl_len = -1000\\ncould mean that size of data is 1000 bytes, data stored in LO and \\nLO' id (oid?) is in vl_dat. It seems easy to implement (without\\noptimization of access to data).\\n\\nVadim\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:47:58 +0700\",\n \"msg_from\": \"\\\"Vadim B. Mikheev\\\" <vadim@sable.krasnoyarsk.su>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] varchar(), text,char() overhead\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":193,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"Here they are:\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nGROUP BY bug of duplicates\nGROUP BY nulls bug\nORDER BY nulls(Vadim?)\nmany OR's exhaust optimizer memory(Vadim?)\nmax tuple length settings(Darren & Peter)\npg_user defaults to world-readable until passwords used(Todd)\npsql .psqlrc file startup(Andrew)\nself-join optimizer bug\nsubselects(Vadim)\n","msg_date":"Wed, 21 Jan 1998 22:08:10 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Current open 6.3 issues"},{"msg_contents":"On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Bruce Momjian wrote:\n\n> Here they are:\n> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n> \n> GROUP BY bug of duplicates\n> GROUP BY nulls bug\n> ORDER BY nulls(Vadim?)\n> many OR's exhaust optimizer memory(Vadim?)\n> max tuple length settings(Darren & Peter)\n\nThe last I saw, we agreed (on the client side) to leave the current\nsettings for 8k tuples.\n\n> pg_user defaults to world-readable until passwords used(Todd)\n> psql .psqlrc file startup(Andrew)\n> self-join optimizer bug\n> subselects(Vadim)\n\nPS: I'm having to commute to London all this week, so I'm not getting the\ntime to do anything :-(\n\nHopefully it should ease after this Friday.\n\n-- \nPeter T Mount petermount@earthling.net or pmount@maidast.demon.co.uk\nMain Homepage: http://www.demon.co.uk/finder\nWork Homepage: http://www.maidstone.gov.uk Work EMail: peter@maidstone.gov.uk\n\n","msg_date":"Thu, 22 Jan 1998 06:35:20 +0000 (GMT)","msg_from":"Peter T Mount <psqlhack@maidast.demon.co.uk>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Current open 6.3 issues"},{"msg_contents":"\nWhere can i get it ?\n\nOn Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Bruce Momjian wrote:\n\n> Here they are:\n> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n> \n> GROUP BY bug of duplicates\n> GROUP BY nulls bug\n> ORDER BY nulls(Vadim?)\n> many OR's exhaust optimizer memory(Vadim?)\n> max tuple length settings(Darren & Peter)\n> pg_user defaults to world-readable until passwords used(Todd)\n> psql .psqlrc file startup(Andrew)\n> self-join optimizer bug\n> subselects(Vadim)\n> \n\nSY, Serj\n\n","msg_date":"Thu, 22 Jan 1998 12:42:15 +0300 (MSK)","msg_from":"Serj <fenix@am.ring.ru>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Current open 6.3 issues"},{"msg_contents":"> \n> \n> Where can i get it ?\n\nBeta is feb1. Copy on ftp.postgresql.org now.\n\n> \n> On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Bruce Momjian wrote:\n> \n> > Here they are:\n> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n> > \n> > GROUP BY bug of duplicates\n> > GROUP BY nulls bug\n> > ORDER BY nulls(Vadim?)\n> > many OR's exhaust optimizer memory(Vadim?)\n> > max tuple length settings(Darren & Peter)\n> > pg_user defaults to world-readable until passwords used(Todd)\n> > psql .psqlrc file startup(Andrew)\n> > self-join optimizer bug\n> > subselects(Vadim)\n> > \n> \n> SY, Serj\n> \n> \n\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:37:09 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Current open 6.3 issues"},{"msg_contents":"> \n> On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Bruce Momjian wrote:\n> \n> > Here they are:\n> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n> > \n> > GROUP BY bug of duplicates\n> > GROUP BY nulls bug\n> > ORDER BY nulls(Vadim?)\n> > many OR's exhaust optimizer memory(Vadim?)\n> > max tuple length settings(Darren & Peter)\n> \n> The last I saw, we agreed (on the client side) to leave the current\n> settings for 8k tuples.\n\nI thought we were increasing the client size to the maximum value\nallowable for any backend.\n\n> \n> > pg_user defaults to world-readable until passwords used(Todd)\n> > psql .psqlrc file startup(Andrew)\n> > self-join optimizer bug\n> > subselects(Vadim)\n> \n> PS: I'm having to commute to London all this week, so I'm not getting the\n> time to do anything :-(\n> \n> Hopefully it should ease after this Friday.\n> \n> -- \n> Peter T Mount petermount@earthling.net or pmount@maidast.demon.co.uk\n> Main Homepage: http://www.demon.co.uk/finder\n> Work Homepage: http://www.maidstone.gov.uk Work EMail: peter@maidstone.gov.uk\n> \n> \n\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:41:59 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Current open 6.3 issues"},{"msg_contents":"> >\n> > Where can i get it ?\n> \n> Beta is feb1. Copy on ftp.postgresql.org now.\n> \n\n-rw-r--r-- 1 1005 96 2858711 Jan 16 08:03\npostgresql.snapshot.tar.gz \n\nIs it, or not ?\n\n-- \nSY, Serj\n","msg_date":"Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:32:53 +0300","msg_from":"Serj <fenix@am.ring.ru>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Current open 6.3 issues"},{"msg_contents":"On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Serj wrote:\n\n> > >\n> > > Where can i get it ?\n> > \n> > Beta is feb1. Copy on ftp.postgresql.org now.\n> > \n> \n> -rw-r--r-- 1 1005 96 2858711 Jan 16 08:03\n> postgresql.snapshot.tar.gz \n> \n> Is it, or not ?\n\n\tIt is purely a alpha copy, meant for testing purposes only, until Feb\n1st...expect the new one coming out on Friday to have major changes in it\n\nMarc G. Fournier \nSystems Administrator @ hub.org \nprimary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org \n\n","msg_date":"Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:40:54 -0400 (AST)","msg_from":"The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Current open 6.3 issues"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Here they are:\\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------\\n\\nGROUP BY bug of duplicates\\nGROUP BY nulls bug\\nORDER BY nulls(Vadim?)\\nmany OR's exhaust optimizer memory(Vadim?)\\nmax tuple length settings(Darren & Peter)\\npg_user defaults to world-readable until passwords used(Todd)\\npsql .psqlrc file startup(Andrew)\\nself-join optimizer bug\\nsubselects(Vadim)\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Wed, 21 Jan 1998 22:08:10 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Current open 6.3 issues\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Bruce Momjian wrote:\\n\\n> Here they are:\\n> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\\n> \\n> GROUP BY bug of duplicates\\n> GROUP BY nulls bug\\n> ORDER BY nulls(Vadim?)\\n> many OR's exhaust optimizer memory(Vadim?)\\n> max tuple length settings(Darren & Peter)\\n\\nThe last I saw, we agreed (on the client side) to leave the current\\nsettings for 8k tuples.\\n\\n> pg_user defaults to world-readable until passwords used(Todd)\\n> psql .psqlrc file startup(Andrew)\\n> self-join optimizer bug\\n> subselects(Vadim)\\n\\nPS: I'm having to commute to London all this week, so I'm not getting the\\ntime to do anything :-(\\n\\nHopefully it should ease after this Friday.\\n\\n-- \\nPeter T Mount petermount@earthling.net or pmount@maidast.demon.co.uk\\nMain Homepage: http://www.demon.co.uk/finder\\nWork Homepage: http://www.maidstone.gov.uk Work EMail: peter@maidstone.gov.uk\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Thu, 22 Jan 1998 06:35:20 +0000 (GMT)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Peter T Mount <psqlhack@maidast.demon.co.uk>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Current open 6.3 issues\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\nWhere can i get it ?\\n\\nOn Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Bruce Momjian wrote:\\n\\n> Here they are:\\n> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\\n> \\n> GROUP BY bug of duplicates\\n> GROUP BY nulls bug\\n> ORDER BY nulls(Vadim?)\\n> many OR's exhaust optimizer memory(Vadim?)\\n> max tuple length settings(Darren & Peter)\\n> pg_user defaults to world-readable until passwords used(Todd)\\n> psql .psqlrc file startup(Andrew)\\n> self-join optimizer bug\\n> subselects(Vadim)\\n> \\n\\nSY, Serj\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Thu, 22 Jan 1998 12:42:15 +0300 (MSK)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Serj <fenix@am.ring.ru>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Current open 6.3 issues\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> \\n> \\n> Where can i get it ?\\n\\nBeta is feb1. Copy on ftp.postgresql.org now.\\n\\n> \\n> On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Bruce Momjian wrote:\\n> \\n> > Here they are:\\n> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\\n> > \\n> > GROUP BY bug of duplicates\\n> > GROUP BY nulls bug\\n> > ORDER BY nulls(Vadim?)\\n> > many OR's exhaust optimizer memory(Vadim?)\\n> > max tuple length settings(Darren & Peter)\\n> > pg_user defaults to world-readable until passwords used(Todd)\\n> > psql .psqlrc file startup(Andrew)\\n> > self-join optimizer bug\\n> > subselects(Vadim)\\n> > \\n> \\n> SY, Serj\\n> \\n> \\n\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:37:09 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Current open 6.3 issues\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> \\n> On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Bruce Momjian wrote:\\n> \\n> > Here they are:\\n> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\\n> > \\n> > GROUP BY bug of duplicates\\n> > GROUP BY nulls bug\\n> > ORDER BY nulls(Vadim?)\\n> > many OR's exhaust optimizer memory(Vadim?)\\n> > max tuple length settings(Darren & Peter)\\n> \\n> The last I saw, we agreed (on the client side) to leave the current\\n> settings for 8k tuples.\\n\\nI thought we were increasing the client size to the maximum value\\nallowable for any backend.\\n\\n> \\n> > pg_user defaults to world-readable until passwords used(Todd)\\n> > psql .psqlrc file startup(Andrew)\\n> > self-join optimizer bug\\n> > subselects(Vadim)\\n> \\n> PS: I'm having to commute to London all this week, so I'm not getting the\\n> time to do anything :-(\\n> \\n> Hopefully it should ease after this Friday.\\n> \\n> -- \\n> Peter T Mount petermount@earthling.net or pmount@maidast.demon.co.uk\\n> Main Homepage: http://www.demon.co.uk/finder\\n> Work Homepage: http://www.maidstone.gov.uk Work EMail: peter@maidstone.gov.uk\\n> \\n> \\n\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:41:59 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Current open 6.3 issues\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> >\\n> > Where can i get it ?\\n> \\n> Beta is feb1. Copy on ftp.postgresql.org now.\\n> \\n\\n-rw-r--r-- 1 1005 96 2858711 Jan 16 08:03\\npostgresql.snapshot.tar.gz \\n\\nIs it, or not ?\\n\\n-- \\nSY, Serj\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:32:53 +0300\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Serj <fenix@am.ring.ru>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Current open 6.3 issues\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Serj wrote:\\n\\n> > >\\n> > > Where can i get it ?\\n> > \\n> > Beta is feb1. Copy on ftp.postgresql.org now.\\n> > \\n> \\n> -rw-r--r-- 1 1005 96 2858711 Jan 16 08:03\\n> postgresql.snapshot.tar.gz \\n> \\n> Is it, or not ?\\n\\n\\tIt is purely a alpha copy, meant for testing purposes only, until Feb\\n1st...expect the new one coming out on Friday to have major changes in it\\n\\nMarc G. Fournier \\nSystems Administrator @ hub.org \\nprimary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org \\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:40:54 -0400 (AST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Current open 6.3 issues\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":194,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"subscribe\n\n","msg_date":"Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:46:02 +0100","msg_from":"expertel <postgres@expertel.fr>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"(no subject)"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"subscribe\\n\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:46:02 +0100\",\n \"msg_from\": \"expertel <postgres@expertel.fr>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"(no subject)\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":195,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"> Here they are:\n> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n> \n> GROUP BY bug of duplicates\n> GROUP BY nulls bug\n> ORDER BY nulls(Vadim?)\n> many OR's exhaust optimizer memory(Vadim?)\n> max tuple length settings(Darren & Peter)\n> pg_user defaults to world-readable until passwords used(Todd)\n> psql .psqlrc file startup(Andrew)\nUnfortunately I simply don't have time to implement any of the nicer suggestions\nfor how this should work. I wish I did...\n\n> self-join optimizer bug\n> subselects(Vadim)\n> \n\nAndrew\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nDr. Andrew C.R. Martin University College London\nEMAIL: (Work) martin@biochem.ucl.ac.uk (Home) andrew@stagleys.demon.co.uk\nURL: http://www.biochem.ucl.ac.uk/~martin\nTel: (Work) +44(0)171 419 3890 (Home) +44(0)1372 275775\n","msg_date":"Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:02:10 GMT","msg_from":"Andrew Martin <martin@biochemistry.ucl.ac.uk>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"RE: [HACKERS] Current open 6.3 issues"},{"msg_contents":"> \n> > Here they are:\n> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n> > \n> > GROUP BY bug of duplicates\n> > GROUP BY nulls bug\n> > ORDER BY nulls(Vadim?)\n> > many OR's exhaust optimizer memory(Vadim?)\n> > max tuple length settings(Darren & Peter)\n> > pg_user defaults to world-readable until passwords used(Todd)\n> > psql .psqlrc file startup(Andrew)\n> Unfortunately I simply don't have time to implement any of the nicer suggestions\n> for how this should work. I wish I did...\n\nOK, what are we doing the .psqlrc. Can you send the old patch, or are\nwe dropping it for 6.3?\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:40:05 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Current open 6.3 issues"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> Here they are:\\n> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\\n> \\n> GROUP BY bug of duplicates\\n> GROUP BY nulls bug\\n> ORDER BY nulls(Vadim?)\\n> many OR's exhaust optimizer memory(Vadim?)\\n> max tuple length settings(Darren & Peter)\\n> pg_user defaults to world-readable until passwords used(Todd)\\n> psql .psqlrc file startup(Andrew)\\nUnfortunately I simply don't have time to implement any of the nicer suggestions\\nfor how this should work. I wish I did...\\n\\n> self-join optimizer bug\\n> subselects(Vadim)\\n> \\n\\nAndrew\\n\\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\\nDr. Andrew C.R. Martin University College London\\nEMAIL: (Work) martin@biochem.ucl.ac.uk (Home) andrew@stagleys.demon.co.uk\\nURL: http://www.biochem.ucl.ac.uk/~martin\\nTel: (Work) +44(0)171 419 3890 (Home) +44(0)1372 275775\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:02:10 GMT\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Andrew Martin <martin@biochemistry.ucl.ac.uk>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"RE: [HACKERS] Current open 6.3 issues\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> \\n> > Here they are:\\n> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\\n> > \\n> > GROUP BY bug of duplicates\\n> > GROUP BY nulls bug\\n> > ORDER BY nulls(Vadim?)\\n> > many OR's exhaust optimizer memory(Vadim?)\\n> > max tuple length settings(Darren & Peter)\\n> > pg_user defaults to world-readable until passwords used(Todd)\\n> > psql .psqlrc file startup(Andrew)\\n> Unfortunately I simply don't have time to implement any of the nicer suggestions\\n> for how this should work. I wish I did...\\n\\nOK, what are we doing the .psqlrc. Can you send the old patch, or are\\nwe dropping it for 6.3?\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:40:05 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Current open 6.3 issues\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":196,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"> > max tuple length settings(Darren & Peter)\n> \n> The last I saw, we agreed (on the client side) to leave the current\n> settings for 8k tuples.\n> \n> PS: I'm having to commute to London all this week, so I'm not getting the\n> time to do anything :-(\n> \n> Hopefully it should ease after this Friday.\n> \n> -- \n> Peter T Mount petermount@earthling.net or pmount@maidast.demon.co.uk\n\nKnow the feeling... I commute to London every day :-( (except when I\nwork at home...)\n\n\nAndrew\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nDr. Andrew C.R. Martin University College London\nEMAIL: (Work) martin@biochem.ucl.ac.uk (Home) andrew@stagleys.demon.co.uk\nURL: http://www.biochem.ucl.ac.uk/~martin\nTel: (Work) +44(0)171 419 3890 (Home) +44(0)1372 275775\n","msg_date":"Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:04:45 GMT","msg_from":"Andrew Martin <martin@biochemistry.ucl.ac.uk>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Current open 6.3 issues"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> > max tuple length settings(Darren & Peter)\\n> \\n> The last I saw, we agreed (on the client side) to leave the current\\n> settings for 8k tuples.\\n> \\n> PS: I'm having to commute to London all this week, so I'm not getting the\\n> time to do anything :-(\\n> \\n> Hopefully it should ease after this Friday.\\n> \\n> -- \\n> Peter T Mount petermount@earthling.net or pmount@maidast.demon.co.uk\\n\\nKnow the feeling... I commute to London every day :-( (except when I\\nwork at home...)\\n\\n\\nAndrew\\n\\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\\nDr. Andrew C.R. Martin University College London\\nEMAIL: (Work) martin@biochem.ucl.ac.uk (Home) andrew@stagleys.demon.co.uk\\nURL: http://www.biochem.ucl.ac.uk/~martin\\nTel: (Work) +44(0)171 419 3890 (Home) +44(0)1372 275775\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:04:45 GMT\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Andrew Martin <martin@biochemistry.ucl.ac.uk>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Current open 6.3 issues\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":197,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"> > \n> > I had forgotten about your mention of this. I am running some tests\n> > now, and things look promising. However, if we go to 64k or 128k\n> > tuples, we would be in trouble. (We can do 64k tuples by changing the\n> > 'special variable' length value from -1 to 0.\n> > \n> \n> I am not going to make any changes to the variable length overhead for\n> char(), varchar(), and text at this time. It is too close to beta. I\n> will keep the item on the TODO list, and we can hash it out later.\n> \n\nI've been slowed this week...totalled my car Sat. nite (actually some\nother bonehead did it for me), so I've been a touch busy with insurance\nagents, etc...but I _will_ have this in by the beta date.\n\nTuples will only go up to 32k since there are only 15 bits available to\npoint to items on the page. Unless we want to expand that structure...I\ntested bit-field alignment on aix and it seems to favor 4-byte boundaries.\n\nFor now the three bit fields total 32 bits, but expand those and the size\nis padded up to 64. I have no idea how gcc or other compilers align bit\nfields. I been working without trying to expand this structure size, so\nI've stuck to 32k (15-bits) as the limit.\n\nI have so far...\n\n1. Synced all references to the BLCKSZ define.\n2. Made a \"-k\" option to postgres and created a global \"BlockSize\" variable.\n3. Fixed the places where BLCKSZ was used in variable declarations to use\n the BlockSize global.\n\nTo do...\n\n1. Should the block size of a database be written to a file like the version?\nAnd then be read in when postmaster starts and passed to each backend? This\nwould limit all of the databases in one PG_DATA directory to the same block\nsize. Couldn't do it on a \"per database\" basis since the template is only\ncreated once by initdb.\n\n2. Should the limit of the char fields be based on the block size? Been trying\nto get this to work. Creates fields just fine, but backend seems to be passing\nthe fields back padded to the full size.\n\nIs it possible for the back and front end to have a tuple split across packets\nor does everything have to be in one 8k packet? Rather than have the interfaces\nneeding to know about differing sizes, could tuples-spanning-packets be added\nto the libpq protocol somehow? Or would this have a bottleneck effect?\n\ndarrenk\n","msg_date":"Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:36:17 -0500","msg_from":"darrenk@insightdist.com (Darren King)","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] varchar(), text,char() overhead"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> > \\n> > I had forgotten about your mention of this. I am running some tests\\n> > now, and things look promising. However, if we go to 64k or 128k\\n> > tuples, we would be in trouble. (We can do 64k tuples by changing the\\n> > 'special variable' length value from -1 to 0.\\n> > \\n> \\n> I am not going to make any changes to the variable length overhead for\\n> char(), varchar(), and text at this time. It is too close to beta. I\\n> will keep the item on the TODO list, and we can hash it out later.\\n> \\n\\nI've been slowed this week...totalled my car Sat. nite (actually some\\nother bonehead did it for me), so I've been a touch busy with insurance\\nagents, etc...but I _will_ have this in by the beta date.\\n\\nTuples will only go up to 32k since there are only 15 bits available to\\npoint to items on the page. Unless we want to expand that structure...I\\ntested bit-field alignment on aix and it seems to favor 4-byte boundaries.\\n\\nFor now the three bit fields total 32 bits, but expand those and the size\\nis padded up to 64. I have no idea how gcc or other compilers align bit\\nfields. I been working without trying to expand this structure size, so\\nI've stuck to 32k (15-bits) as the limit.\\n\\nI have so far...\\n\\n1. Synced all references to the BLCKSZ define.\\n2. Made a \\\"-k\\\" option to postgres and created a global \\\"BlockSize\\\" variable.\\n3. Fixed the places where BLCKSZ was used in variable declarations to use\\n the BlockSize global.\\n\\nTo do...\\n\\n1. Should the block size of a database be written to a file like the version?\\nAnd then be read in when postmaster starts and passed to each backend? This\\nwould limit all of the databases in one PG_DATA directory to the same block\\nsize. Couldn't do it on a \\\"per database\\\" basis since the template is only\\ncreated once by initdb.\\n\\n2. Should the limit of the char fields be based on the block size? Been trying\\nto get this to work. Creates fields just fine, but backend seems to be passing\\nthe fields back padded to the full size.\\n\\nIs it possible for the back and front end to have a tuple split across packets\\nor does everything have to be in one 8k packet? Rather than have the interfaces\\nneeding to know about differing sizes, could tuples-spanning-packets be added\\nto the libpq protocol somehow? Or would this have a bottleneck effect?\\n\\ndarrenk\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:36:17 -0500\",\n \"msg_from\": \"darrenk@insightdist.com (Darren King)\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] varchar(), text,char() overhead\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":198,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"\nHello.\n\nZeev Suraski <zeev@php.net> is making some changes to the PostgreSQL code \nin PHP3 so that the Oid is returned in the pg_exec funtion if it is an \ninsert.\n\nWhat is the size of the Oid (unsigned, signed etc) and will it ever be \nzero.\n\nMichael\n\n* Michael J. Rogan, Network Administrator, 905-624-3020 *\n* Mark IV Industries, F-P Electronics & I.V.H.S. Divisions *\n* mrogan@fpelectronics.com mrogan@ivhs.com *\n","msg_date":"Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:11:14 +0000","msg_from":"\"Michael J. Rogan\" <mrogan@fpelectronics.com>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Oid Questions"},{"msg_contents":"Developers Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) for PostgreSQL\n\nLast updated: Thu Jan 22 15:04:10 EST 1998\n\nCurrent maintainer: Bruce Momjian (maillist@candle.pha.pa.us)\n\nThe most recent version of this document can be viewed at the postgreSQL Web\nsite, http://postgreSQL.org.\n\n ------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nQuestions answered:\n\n1) General questions\n\n1) What tools are available for developers?\n2) What books are good for developers?\n3) Why do we use palloc() and pfree() to allocate memory?\n4) Why do we use Node() and List() to make data structures?\n ------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n1) What tools are available for developers?\n\nAside from the User documentation mentioned in the regular FAQ, there are\nseveral development tools available. First, all the files in the /tools\ndirectory are designed for developers.\n\n RELEASE_CHANGES changes we have to make for each release\n SQL_keywords standard SQL'92 keywords\n backend web flowchart of the backend directories\n ccsym find standard defines made by your compiler\n entab converts tabs to spaces, used by pgindent\n find_static finds functions that could be made static\n find_typedef get a list of typedefs in the source code\n make_ctags make vi 'tags' file in each directory\n make_diff make *.orig and diffs of source\n make_etags make emacs 'etags' files\n make_keywords.README make comparison of our keywords and SQL'92\n make_mkid make mkid ID files\n mkldexport create AIX exports file\n pgindent indents C source files\n\nLet me note some of these. If you point your browser at the tools/backend\ndirectory, you will see all the backend components in a flow chart. You can\nclick on any one to see a description. If you then click on the directory\nname, you will be taken to the source directory, to browse the actual source\ncode behind it. We also have several README files in some source directories\nto describe the function of the module. The browser will display these when\nyou enter the directory also. The tools/backend directory is also contained\non our web page under the title Backend Flowchart.\n\nSecond, you really should have an editor that can handle tags, so you can\ntag a function call to see the function definition, and then tag inside that\nfunction to see an even lower-level function, and then back out twice to\nreturn to the original function. Most editors support this via tags or etags\nfiles.\n\nThird, you need to get mkid from ftp.postgresql.org. By running\ntools/make_mkid, an archive of source symbols can be created that can be\nrapidly queried like grep or edited.\n\nmake_diff has tools to create patch diff files that can be applied to the\ndistribution.\n\npgindent will format source files to match our standard format, which has\nfour-space tabs, and an indenting format specified by flags to the your\noperating system's utility indent.\n\n2) What books are good for developers?\n\nI have two good books, An Introduction to Database Systems, by C.J. Date,\nAddison, Wesley and A Guide to the SQL Standard, by C.J. Date, et. al,\nAddison, Wesley.\n\n3) Why do we use palloc() and pfree() to allocate memory?\n\npalloc() and pfree() are used in place of malloc() and free() because we\nautomatically free all memory allocated when a transaction completes. This\nmakes it easier to make sure we free memory that gets allocated in one\nplace, but only freed much later. There are several contexts that memory can\nbe allocated in, and this controls when the allocated memory is\nautomatically freed by the backend.\n\n4) Why do we use Node() and List() to make data structures?\n\nWe do this because this allows a consistent way to pass data inside the\nbackend in a flexible way. Every node has a NodeTag which specifies what\ntype of data is inside the Node. Lists are lists of Nodes. lfirst(),\nlnext(), and foreach() are used to get, skip, and traverse throught Lists.\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:05:37 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"new DEV FAQ"},{"msg_contents":"> \n> \n> Hello.\n> \n> Zeev Suraski <zeev@php.net> is making some changes to the PostgreSQL code \n> in PHP3 so that the Oid is returned in the pg_exec funtion if it is an \n> insert.\n> \n> What is the size of the Oid (unsigned, signed etc) and will it ever be \n> zero.\n\n\ttypedef unsigned int Oid;\n\nA zero value for OID is reserved for an Invalid OID. If it returns a\nzero, I would pass it back to the application. You may want to call\nlibpq's PQoidStatus() to get this information. That is a new function\nfor 6.2.1.\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:25:19 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Oid Questions"},{"msg_contents":"> \n> At 16:25 22/01/98 -0500, Bruce Momjian wrote:\n> >A zero value for OID is reserved for an Invalid OID. If it returns a\n> >zero, I would pass it back to the application. You may want to call\n> >libpq's PQoidStatus() to get this information. That is a new function\n> >for 6.2.1.\n> \n> Ok, please tell me if this logic is correct. It describes the logic behind\n> the implementation of pg_exec() in PHP.\n> \n> First, the query is executed. If the status is PGRES_EMPTY_QUERY or\n> PGRES_BAD_RESPONSE or PGRES_NONFATAL_ERROR or PGRES_FATAL_ERROR, return\n> FALSE (failure).\n> If it returns PGRES_COMMAND_OK (which is, from what I understand, a\n> successful query that is, by definition, not supposed to return rows) -\n> check PQoidStatus(). If it's not null, atoi() of it is not 0, return its\n> return value as a numeric integer. If it is zero, assume that this was a\n> successful query that didn't cause the oid to be updated, and return TRUE\n> (successful query that does not return rows or oid).\n> Otherwise, assume that that was a succesful query that returned rows -\n> return a PostgresSQL result identifier.\n\nSorry, got lost in this paragraph.\n\n> \n> I guess that my key question is, whether or not it's correct to assume\n> PGRES_COMMAND_OK + PQoidStatus() == 0 or \"0\" => successful query that did\n> not return rows and did not update the oid, OR, is it possible that\n> PQoidStatus() of zero reflects some error, even though the return value was\n> PGRES_COMMAND_OK?\n\nIt is the result status, PGRES_COMMAND_OK that is important. The\nPQoidStatus() is really there just as an aid. Only an INSERT returns an\nOID as part of the result string. We use this function to just pull it\nout of the string. If they do a SELECT ... INTO, they are inserting\nzero or multiple OIDs, so this value is the last oid inserted.\n\nWe also have new in 6.2.1 PQcmdTuples(), which shows how many rows were\naffected by the INSERT, UPDATE, or DELETE. Again, it comes out of the\nstring returned in the Result structure.\n\nSee libpq/fe-exec.c for the source to both of these.\n\n> \n> PHP can return different datatypes from the same function, in case you were\n> wondering :)\n\nYep, I remember.\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:09:00 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Oid Questions"},{"msg_contents":"> \n> I'll try to rephrase the question without taking 3 complex paragraphs to do\n> that :)\n> \n> Is there a way to know a PostgresSQL result holds NO interesting\n> information (no rows, no oids, no nothing)?\n> \n> The more I think of it, the more it seems like this isn't the case with\n> PostgresSQL. Moreover, it seems like in most cases the result holds one\n> interesting tidbit of information or another. When I wrote the MySQL\n> module, basically, I made any query that did not return rows (not including\n> select's that returned 0 rows) but succeeded return TRUE instead of a\n> result handler, since there wasn't much point at keeping that result. With\n> MySQL the information about the last inserted id (mysql_insert_it(), I\n> think it's comparable to the last oid in pgsql) and the number of affected\n> rows can be obtained from the 'server' structure, and not the restul\n> structure as it is with Postgres.\n> \n> I guess I'll change the Postgres module to always keep the result\n> structures and return result identifiers on a successful query.\n\nYes, all the return information for results that return zero rows are in\nthe Result structure, so you can have multiple results open at the same\ntime, and query them separately. They remain valid until PQclear()'ed.\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:34:51 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Oid Questions"},{"msg_contents":"At 16:25 22/01/98 -0500, Bruce Momjian wrote:\n>A zero value for OID is reserved for an Invalid OID. If it returns a\n>zero, I would pass it back to the application. You may want to call\n>libpq's PQoidStatus() to get this information. That is a new function\n>for 6.2.1.\n\nOk, please tell me if this logic is correct. It describes the logic behind\nthe implementation of pg_exec() in PHP.\n\nFirst, the query is executed. If the status is PGRES_EMPTY_QUERY or\nPGRES_BAD_RESPONSE or PGRES_NONFATAL_ERROR or PGRES_FATAL_ERROR, return\nFALSE (failure).\nIf it returns PGRES_COMMAND_OK (which is, from what I understand, a\nsuccessful query that is, by definition, not supposed to return rows) -\ncheck PQoidStatus(). If it's not null, atoi() of it is not 0, return its\nreturn value as a numeric integer. If it is zero, assume that this was a\nsuccessful query that didn't cause the oid to be updated, and return TRUE\n(successful query that does not return rows or oid).\nOtherwise, assume that that was a succesful query that returned rows -\nreturn a PostgresSQL result identifier.\n\nI guess that my key question is, whether or not it's correct to assume\nPGRES_COMMAND_OK + PQoidStatus() == 0 or \"0\" => successful query that did\nnot return rows and did not update the oid, OR, is it possible that\nPQoidStatus() of zero reflects some error, even though the return value was\nPGRES_COMMAND_OK?\n\nPHP can return different datatypes from the same function, in case you were\nwondering :)\n\nZeev\n---\nZeev Suraski <zeev@php.net>\nWeb programmer, System administrator, Netvision LTD\nhttp://bourbon.netvision.net.il/ ICQ: 1450980 \nFor a PGP public key, finger bourbon@netvision.net.il\n","msg_date":"Thu, 22 Jan 1998 23:55:35","msg_from":"Zeev Suraski <bourbon@netvision.net.il>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Oid Questions"},{"msg_contents":"I'll try to rephrase the question without taking 3 complex paragraphs to do\nthat :)\n\nIs there a way to know a PostgresSQL result holds NO interesting\ninformation (no rows, no oids, no nothing)?\n\nThe more I think of it, the more it seems like this isn't the case with\nPostgresSQL. Moreover, it seems like in most cases the result holds one\ninteresting tidbit of information or another. When I wrote the MySQL\nmodule, basically, I made any query that did not return rows (not including\nselect's that returned 0 rows) but succeeded return TRUE instead of a\nresult handler, since there wasn't much point at keeping that result. With\nMySQL the information about the last inserted id (mysql_insert_it(), I\nthink it's comparable to the last oid in pgsql) and the number of affected\nrows can be obtained from the 'server' structure, and not the restul\nstructure as it is with Postgres.\n\nI guess I'll change the Postgres module to always keep the result\nstructures and return result identifiers on a successful query.\n\nZeev\n---\nZeev Suraski <zeev@php.net>\nWeb programmer, System administrator, Netvision LTD\nhttp://bourbon.netvision.net.il/ ICQ: 1450980 \nFor a PGP public key, finger bourbon@netvision.net.il\n","msg_date":"Fri, 23 Jan 1998 00:33:09","msg_from":"Zeev Suraski <bourbon@netvision.net.il>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Oid Questions"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"\\nHello.\\n\\nZeev Suraski <zeev@php.net> is making some changes to the PostgreSQL code \\nin PHP3 so that the Oid is returned in the pg_exec funtion if it is an \\ninsert.\\n\\nWhat is the size of the Oid (unsigned, signed etc) and will it ever be \\nzero.\\n\\nMichael\\n\\n* Michael J. Rogan, Network Administrator, 905-624-3020 *\\n* Mark IV Industries, F-P Electronics & I.V.H.S. Divisions *\\n* mrogan@fpelectronics.com mrogan@ivhs.com *\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:11:14 +0000\",\n \"msg_from\": \"\\\"Michael J. Rogan\\\" <mrogan@fpelectronics.com>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Oid Questions\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Developers Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) for PostgreSQL\\n\\nLast updated: Thu Jan 22 15:04:10 EST 1998\\n\\nCurrent maintainer: Bruce Momjian (maillist@candle.pha.pa.us)\\n\\nThe most recent version of this document can be viewed at the postgreSQL Web\\nsite, http://postgreSQL.org.\\n\\n ------------------------------------------------------------------------\\n\\nQuestions answered:\\n\\n1) General questions\\n\\n1) What tools are available for developers?\\n2) What books are good for developers?\\n3) Why do we use palloc() and pfree() to allocate memory?\\n4) Why do we use Node() and List() to make data structures?\\n ------------------------------------------------------------------------\\n\\n1) What tools are available for developers?\\n\\nAside from the User documentation mentioned in the regular FAQ, there are\\nseveral development tools available. First, all the files in the /tools\\ndirectory are designed for developers.\\n\\n RELEASE_CHANGES changes we have to make for each release\\n SQL_keywords standard SQL'92 keywords\\n backend web flowchart of the backend directories\\n ccsym find standard defines made by your compiler\\n entab converts tabs to spaces, used by pgindent\\n find_static finds functions that could be made static\\n find_typedef get a list of typedefs in the source code\\n make_ctags make vi 'tags' file in each directory\\n make_diff make *.orig and diffs of source\\n make_etags make emacs 'etags' files\\n make_keywords.README make comparison of our keywords and SQL'92\\n make_mkid make mkid ID files\\n mkldexport create AIX exports file\\n pgindent indents C source files\\n\\nLet me note some of these. If you point your browser at the tools/backend\\ndirectory, you will see all the backend components in a flow chart. You can\\nclick on any one to see a description. If you then click on the directory\\nname, you will be taken to the source directory, to browse the actual source\\ncode behind it. We also have several README files in some source directories\\nto describe the function of the module. The browser will display these when\\nyou enter the directory also. The tools/backend directory is also contained\\non our web page under the title Backend Flowchart.\\n\\nSecond, you really should have an editor that can handle tags, so you can\\ntag a function call to see the function definition, and then tag inside that\\nfunction to see an even lower-level function, and then back out twice to\\nreturn to the original function. Most editors support this via tags or etags\\nfiles.\\n\\nThird, you need to get mkid from ftp.postgresql.org. By running\\ntools/make_mkid, an archive of source symbols can be created that can be\\nrapidly queried like grep or edited.\\n\\nmake_diff has tools to create patch diff files that can be applied to the\\ndistribution.\\n\\npgindent will format source files to match our standard format, which has\\nfour-space tabs, and an indenting format specified by flags to the your\\noperating system's utility indent.\\n\\n2) What books are good for developers?\\n\\nI have two good books, An Introduction to Database Systems, by C.J. Date,\\nAddison, Wesley and A Guide to the SQL Standard, by C.J. Date, et. al,\\nAddison, Wesley.\\n\\n3) Why do we use palloc() and pfree() to allocate memory?\\n\\npalloc() and pfree() are used in place of malloc() and free() because we\\nautomatically free all memory allocated when a transaction completes. This\\nmakes it easier to make sure we free memory that gets allocated in one\\nplace, but only freed much later. There are several contexts that memory can\\nbe allocated in, and this controls when the allocated memory is\\nautomatically freed by the backend.\\n\\n4) Why do we use Node() and List() to make data structures?\\n\\nWe do this because this allows a consistent way to pass data inside the\\nbackend in a flexible way. Every node has a NodeTag which specifies what\\ntype of data is inside the Node. Lists are lists of Nodes. lfirst(),\\nlnext(), and foreach() are used to get, skip, and traverse throught Lists.\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:05:37 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"new DEV FAQ\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> \\n> \\n> Hello.\\n> \\n> Zeev Suraski <zeev@php.net> is making some changes to the PostgreSQL code \\n> in PHP3 so that the Oid is returned in the pg_exec funtion if it is an \\n> insert.\\n> \\n> What is the size of the Oid (unsigned, signed etc) and will it ever be \\n> zero.\\n\\n\\ttypedef unsigned int Oid;\\n\\nA zero value for OID is reserved for an Invalid OID. If it returns a\\nzero, I would pass it back to the application. You may want to call\\nlibpq's PQoidStatus() to get this information. That is a new function\\nfor 6.2.1.\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:25:19 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Oid Questions\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> \\n> At 16:25 22/01/98 -0500, Bruce Momjian wrote:\\n> >A zero value for OID is reserved for an Invalid OID. If it returns a\\n> >zero, I would pass it back to the application. You may want to call\\n> >libpq's PQoidStatus() to get this information. That is a new function\\n> >for 6.2.1.\\n> \\n> Ok, please tell me if this logic is correct. It describes the logic behind\\n> the implementation of pg_exec() in PHP.\\n> \\n> First, the query is executed. If the status is PGRES_EMPTY_QUERY or\\n> PGRES_BAD_RESPONSE or PGRES_NONFATAL_ERROR or PGRES_FATAL_ERROR, return\\n> FALSE (failure).\\n> If it returns PGRES_COMMAND_OK (which is, from what I understand, a\\n> successful query that is, by definition, not supposed to return rows) -\\n> check PQoidStatus(). If it's not null, atoi() of it is not 0, return its\\n> return value as a numeric integer. If it is zero, assume that this was a\\n> successful query that didn't cause the oid to be updated, and return TRUE\\n> (successful query that does not return rows or oid).\\n> Otherwise, assume that that was a succesful query that returned rows -\\n> return a PostgresSQL result identifier.\\n\\nSorry, got lost in this paragraph.\\n\\n> \\n> I guess that my key question is, whether or not it's correct to assume\\n> PGRES_COMMAND_OK + PQoidStatus() == 0 or \\\"0\\\" => successful query that did\\n> not return rows and did not update the oid, OR, is it possible that\\n> PQoidStatus() of zero reflects some error, even though the return value was\\n> PGRES_COMMAND_OK?\\n\\nIt is the result status, PGRES_COMMAND_OK that is important. The\\nPQoidStatus() is really there just as an aid. Only an INSERT returns an\\nOID as part of the result string. We use this function to just pull it\\nout of the string. If they do a SELECT ... INTO, they are inserting\\nzero or multiple OIDs, so this value is the last oid inserted.\\n\\nWe also have new in 6.2.1 PQcmdTuples(), which shows how many rows were\\naffected by the INSERT, UPDATE, or DELETE. Again, it comes out of the\\nstring returned in the Result structure.\\n\\nSee libpq/fe-exec.c for the source to both of these.\\n\\n> \\n> PHP can return different datatypes from the same function, in case you were\\n> wondering :)\\n\\nYep, I remember.\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:09:00 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Oid Questions\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> \\n> I'll try to rephrase the question without taking 3 complex paragraphs to do\\n> that :)\\n> \\n> Is there a way to know a PostgresSQL result holds NO interesting\\n> information (no rows, no oids, no nothing)?\\n> \\n> The more I think of it, the more it seems like this isn't the case with\\n> PostgresSQL. Moreover, it seems like in most cases the result holds one\\n> interesting tidbit of information or another. When I wrote the MySQL\\n> module, basically, I made any query that did not return rows (not including\\n> select's that returned 0 rows) but succeeded return TRUE instead of a\\n> result handler, since there wasn't much point at keeping that result. With\\n> MySQL the information about the last inserted id (mysql_insert_it(), I\\n> think it's comparable to the last oid in pgsql) and the number of affected\\n> rows can be obtained from the 'server' structure, and not the restul\\n> structure as it is with Postgres.\\n> \\n> I guess I'll change the Postgres module to always keep the result\\n> structures and return result identifiers on a successful query.\\n\\nYes, all the return information for results that return zero rows are in\\nthe Result structure, so you can have multiple results open at the same\\ntime, and query them separately. They remain valid until PQclear()'ed.\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:34:51 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Oid Questions\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"At 16:25 22/01/98 -0500, Bruce Momjian wrote:\\n>A zero value for OID is reserved for an Invalid OID. If it returns a\\n>zero, I would pass it back to the application. You may want to call\\n>libpq's PQoidStatus() to get this information. That is a new function\\n>for 6.2.1.\\n\\nOk, please tell me if this logic is correct. It describes the logic behind\\nthe implementation of pg_exec() in PHP.\\n\\nFirst, the query is executed. If the status is PGRES_EMPTY_QUERY or\\nPGRES_BAD_RESPONSE or PGRES_NONFATAL_ERROR or PGRES_FATAL_ERROR, return\\nFALSE (failure).\\nIf it returns PGRES_COMMAND_OK (which is, from what I understand, a\\nsuccessful query that is, by definition, not supposed to return rows) -\\ncheck PQoidStatus(). If it's not null, atoi() of it is not 0, return its\\nreturn value as a numeric integer. If it is zero, assume that this was a\\nsuccessful query that didn't cause the oid to be updated, and return TRUE\\n(successful query that does not return rows or oid).\\nOtherwise, assume that that was a succesful query that returned rows -\\nreturn a PostgresSQL result identifier.\\n\\nI guess that my key question is, whether or not it's correct to assume\\nPGRES_COMMAND_OK + PQoidStatus() == 0 or \\\"0\\\" => successful query that did\\nnot return rows and did not update the oid, OR, is it possible that\\nPQoidStatus() of zero reflects some error, even though the return value was\\nPGRES_COMMAND_OK?\\n\\nPHP can return different datatypes from the same function, in case you were\\nwondering :)\\n\\nZeev\\n---\\nZeev Suraski <zeev@php.net>\\nWeb programmer, System administrator, Netvision LTD\\nhttp://bourbon.netvision.net.il/ ICQ: 1450980 \\nFor a PGP public key, finger bourbon@netvision.net.il\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Thu, 22 Jan 1998 23:55:35\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Zeev Suraski <bourbon@netvision.net.il>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Oid Questions\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"I'll try to rephrase the question without taking 3 complex paragraphs to do\\nthat :)\\n\\nIs there a way to know a PostgresSQL result holds NO interesting\\ninformation (no rows, no oids, no nothing)?\\n\\nThe more I think of it, the more it seems like this isn't the case with\\nPostgresSQL. Moreover, it seems like in most cases the result holds one\\ninteresting tidbit of information or another. When I wrote the MySQL\\nmodule, basically, I made any query that did not return rows (not including\\nselect's that returned 0 rows) but succeeded return TRUE instead of a\\nresult handler, since there wasn't much point at keeping that result. With\\nMySQL the information about the last inserted id (mysql_insert_it(), I\\nthink it's comparable to the last oid in pgsql) and the number of affected\\nrows can be obtained from the 'server' structure, and not the restul\\nstructure as it is with Postgres.\\n\\nI guess I'll change the Postgres module to always keep the result\\nstructures and return result identifiers on a successful query.\\n\\nZeev\\n---\\nZeev Suraski <zeev@php.net>\\nWeb programmer, System administrator, Netvision LTD\\nhttp://bourbon.netvision.net.il/ ICQ: 1450980 \\nFor a PGP public key, finger bourbon@netvision.net.il\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Fri, 23 Jan 1998 00:33:09\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Zeev Suraski <bourbon@netvision.net.il>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Oid Questions\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}},{"rowIdx":199,"cells":{"threads":{"kind":"list like","value":[{"msg_contents":"Here is the top part of my gprof output from a simple session, creating\ntwo tables, inserting some rows, creating an index and doing a couple\nof simple selects (one minute of typing):\n----------\n % cumulative self self total \n time seconds seconds calls ms/call ms/call name \n 39.74 12.39 12.39 mcount (profiler overhead)\n 7.86 14.84 2.45 964885 0.00 0.00 fastgetattr\n 2.79 15.71 0.87 906153 0.00 0.00 fastgetiattr\n 2.44 16.47 0.76 _psort_cmp\n 2.08 17.12 0.65 400783 0.00 0.00 _bt_compare\n 1.60 17.62 0.50 125987 0.00 0.01 hash_search\n 1.48 18.08 0.46 128756 0.00 0.01 SearchSysCache\n 1.28 18.48 0.40 120307 0.00 0.00 SpinAcquire\n 1.25 18.87 0.39 1846682 0.00 0.00 fmgr_faddr\n 1.06 19.20 0.33 253022 0.00 0.00 StrategyTermEvaluate\n 1.03 19.52 0.32 31578 0.01 0.04 heapgettup\n 0.99 19.83 0.31 128842 0.00 0.00 CatalogCacheComputeHashIndex\n---------- \nFastgetattr() doesn't seem to be so fast, after all... or perhaps it would be\nbest to try and reduce the number of calls to it? One million calls to read\nattributes out of tuples seems to me as extreme when we are talking about less\nthan one hundred rows.\n\nPerhaps it would be better to add a new function 'fastgetattrlist' to retrieve\nmultiple attributes at once, instead of calling a macro wrapped around another\nbunch of macros, calling 'fastgetattr' for each attribute to retrieve?\n\nOr perhaps the tuples could be fitted with a \"lookup table\" when being stored\nin the backend cache? It could take .000005 second or so to build the table and\nattach it to the tuple, but it would definitively speed up retrieval of attributes\nfrom that tuple. If the same tuple is searched for its atributtes lots of times (as\nseem to be the case) then this would be faster in the end.\n\nCan we afford not to optimize this? I just hate those MySql people showing their\nperformance figures. PostgreSQL should be the best...\n\n\nHow about this (seemingly) unnecessarily complex part of\naccess/common/heaptuple.c [fastgetattr] ...\n----------\nswitch (att[i]->attlen)\n{\n\tcase sizeof(char):\n\t\toff++;\t\t<-- why not 'sizeof(char)'?\n\t\tbreak;\n\tcase sizeof(int16):\n\t\toff += sizeof(int16);\n\t\tbreak;\n\tcase sizeof(int32):\n\t\toff += sizeof(int32);\n\t\tbreak;\n\tcase -1:\n\t\tusecache = false;\n\t\toff += VARSIZE(tp + off);\n\t\tbreak;\n\tdefault:\n\t\toff += att[i]->attlen;\n\t\tbreak;\n}\n----------\n\nWould it not be faster *and* easier to read if written as:\n----------\noff += (att[i]->attlen == -1 ? (usecache=false,VARSIZE(tp+off)) : att[i]->attlen);\n----------\n\n...or is this some kind of magic which I should not worry about? There are almost\nno comments in this code, and most of the stuff is totally incomprehensible to me.\n\nWould it be a good idea to try and optimize things like this, or will these\nfunctions be replace sometime anyway?\n\n/* m */\n","msg_date":"Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:36:16 +0100","msg_from":"Mattias Kregert <matti@algonet.se>","msg_from_op":true,"msg_subject":"Profiling the backend (gprof output) [current devel]"},{"msg_contents":"> \n> Here is the top part of my gprof output from a simple session, creating\n> two tables, inserting some rows, creating an index and doing a couple\n> of simple selects (one minute of typing):\n> ----------\n> % cumulative self self total \n> time seconds seconds calls ms/call ms/call name \n> 39.74 12.39 12.39 mcount (profiler overhead)\n> 7.86 14.84 2.45 964885 0.00 0.00 fastgetattr\n> 2.79 15.71 0.87 906153 0.00 0.00 fastgetiattr\n> 2.44 16.47 0.76 _psort_cmp\n> 2.08 17.12 0.65 400783 0.00 0.00 _bt_compare\n> 1.60 17.62 0.50 125987 0.00 0.01 hash_search\n> 1.48 18.08 0.46 128756 0.00 0.01 SearchSysCache\n> 1.28 18.48 0.40 120307 0.00 0.00 SpinAcquire\n> 1.25 18.87 0.39 1846682 0.00 0.00 fmgr_faddr\n> 1.06 19.20 0.33 253022 0.00 0.00 StrategyTermEvaluate\n> 1.03 19.52 0.32 31578 0.01 0.04 heapgettup\n> 0.99 19.83 0.31 128842 0.00 0.00 CatalogCacheComputeHashIndex\n> ---------- \n> Fastgetattr() doesn't seem to be so fast, after all... or perhaps it would be\n> best to try and reduce the number of calls to it? One million calls to read\n> attributes out of tuples seems to me as extreme when we are talking about less\n> than one hundred rows.\n> \n> Perhaps it would be better to add a new function 'fastgetattrlist' to retrieve\n> multiple attributes at once, instead of calling a macro wrapped around another\n> bunch of macros, calling 'fastgetattr' for each attribute to retrieve?\n> \n> Or perhaps the tuples could be fitted with a \"lookup table\" when being stored\n> in the backend cache? It could take .000005 second or so to build the table and\n> attach it to the tuple, but it would definitively speed up retrieval of attributes\n> from that tuple. If the same tuple is searched for its atributtes lots of times (as\n> seem to be the case) then this would be faster in the end.\n> \n> Can we afford not to optimize this? I just hate those MySql people showing their\n> performance figures. PostgreSQL should be the best...\n> \n> \n> How about this (seemingly) unnecessarily complex part of\n> access/common/heaptuple.c [fastgetattr] ...\n> ----------\n> switch (att[i]->attlen)\n> {\n> \tcase sizeof(char):\n> \t\toff++;\t\t<-- why not 'sizeof(char)'?\n> \t\tbreak;\n> \tcase sizeof(int16):\n> \t\toff += sizeof(int16);\n> \t\tbreak;\n> \tcase sizeof(int32):\n> \t\toff += sizeof(int32);\n> \t\tbreak;\n> \tcase -1:\n> \t\tusecache = false;\n> \t\toff += VARSIZE(tp + off);\n> \t\tbreak;\n> \tdefault:\n> \t\toff += att[i]->attlen;\n> \t\tbreak;\n> }\n> ----------\n> \n> Would it not be faster *and* easier to read if written as:\n> ----------\n> off += (att[i]->attlen == -1 ? (usecache=false,VARSIZE(tp+off)) : att[i]->attlen);\n> ----------\n> \n> ...or is this some kind of magic which I should not worry about? There are almost\n> no comments in this code, and most of the stuff is totally incomprehensible to me.\n> \n> Would it be a good idea to try and optimize things like this, or will these\n> functions be replace sometime anyway?\n\nOK, here is my statement on this. GO FOR IT. YOU HAVE THE GREEN LIGHT.\nRUN WITH THE BALL.\n\nYes, PostgreSQL is very modularized, but this modularization causes\nsevere function all overhead, as you have seen. I did some tuning in\n6.2 that improved some things, but much more needs to be done.\n\nAnything that can be done without making the code harder to understand\nor maintain should be done.\n\nYour change to the above switch statement is a good example of a good\ncleanup. If things like this can be improved or cached or made into\nmacros, let's do it.\n\nThe fastgetattr function does quite a bit in terms of reading the tuple,\nso you may need to re-code part of it to optimize it. There is a\nattcacheoff value, but that is only removing part of the overhead.\n\nThere are three things that make us slower that other databases: \ntransactions, user-defined type system, and a good optimizer, which can\nslow small queries, but makes large queries much faster.\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:14:51 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Profiling the backend (gprof output) [current devel]"},{"msg_contents":"> Anything that can be done without making the code harder to understand\n> or maintain should be done.\n\nOne thing. If you find a better/faster/clearer way to code something,\nand it appears in several areas/files of the code, it should probably be\ndone in all those parts, not just the part that gets used a lot.\n\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:47:25 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Profiling the backend (gprof output) [current devel]"},{"msg_contents":"I think I am on to something with fastgetattr. I will send a patch in a\nfew hours.\n\n> \n> Here is the top part of my gprof output from a simple session, creating\n> two tables, inserting some rows, creating an index and doing a couple\n> of simple selects (one minute of typing):\n> ----------\n> % cumulative self self total \n> time seconds seconds calls ms/call ms/call name \n> 39.74 12.39 12.39 mcount (profiler overhead)\n> 7.86 14.84 2.45 964885 0.00 0.00 fastgetattr\n> 2.79 15.71 0.87 906153 0.00 0.00 fastgetiattr\n> 2.44 16.47 0.76 _psort_cmp\n> 2.08 17.12 0.65 400783 0.00 0.00 _bt_compare\n> 1.60 17.62 0.50 125987 0.00 0.01 hash_search\n> 1.48 18.08 0.46 128756 0.00 0.01 SearchSysCache\n> 1.28 18.48 0.40 120307 0.00 0.00 SpinAcquire\n> 1.25 18.87 0.39 1846682 0.00 0.00 fmgr_faddr\n> 1.06 19.20 0.33 253022 0.00 0.00 StrategyTermEvaluate\n> 1.03 19.52 0.32 31578 0.01 0.04 heapgettup\n> 0.99 19.83 0.31 128842 0.00 0.00 CatalogCacheComputeHashIndex\n> ---------- \n> Fastgetattr() doesn't seem to be so fast, after all... or perhaps it would be\n> best to try and reduce the number of calls to it? One million calls to read\n> attributes out of tuples seems to me as extreme when we are talking about less\n> than one hundred rows.\n> \n> Perhaps it would be better to add a new function 'fastgetattrlist' to retrieve\n> multiple attributes at once, instead of calling a macro wrapped around another\n> bunch of macros, calling 'fastgetattr' for each attribute to retrieve?\n> \n> Or perhaps the tuples could be fitted with a \"lookup table\" when being stored\n> in the backend cache? It could take .000005 second or so to build the table and\n> attach it to the tuple, but it would definitively speed up retrieval of attributes\n> from that tuple. If the same tuple is searched for its atributtes lots of times (as\n> seem to be the case) then this would be faster in the end.\n> \n> Can we afford not to optimize this? I just hate those MySql people showing their\n> performance figures. PostgreSQL should be the best...\n> \n> \n> How about this (seemingly) unnecessarily complex part of\n> access/common/heaptuple.c [fastgetattr] ...\n> ----------\n> switch (att[i]->attlen)\n> {\n> \tcase sizeof(char):\n> \t\toff++;\t\t<-- why not 'sizeof(char)'?\n> \t\tbreak;\n> \tcase sizeof(int16):\n> \t\toff += sizeof(int16);\n> \t\tbreak;\n> \tcase sizeof(int32):\n> \t\toff += sizeof(int32);\n> \t\tbreak;\n> \tcase -1:\n> \t\tusecache = false;\n> \t\toff += VARSIZE(tp + off);\n> \t\tbreak;\n> \tdefault:\n> \t\toff += att[i]->attlen;\n> \t\tbreak;\n> }\n> ----------\n> \n> Would it not be faster *and* easier to read if written as:\n> ----------\n> off += (att[i]->attlen == -1 ? (usecache=false,VARSIZE(tp+off)) : att[i]->attlen);\n> ----------\n> \n> ...or is this some kind of magic which I should not worry about? There are almost\n> no comments in this code, and most of the stuff is totally incomprehensible to me.\n> \n> Would it be a good idea to try and optimize things like this, or will these\n> functions be replace sometime anyway?\n> \n> /* m */\n> \n> \n\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n","msg_date":"Thu, 29 Jan 1998 09:47:06 -0500 (EST)","msg_from":"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>","msg_from_op":false,"msg_subject":"Re: [HACKERS] Profiling the backend (gprof output) [current devel]"}],"string":"[\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"Here is the top part of my gprof output from a simple session, creating\\ntwo tables, inserting some rows, creating an index and doing a couple\\nof simple selects (one minute of typing):\\n----------\\n % cumulative self self total \\n time seconds seconds calls ms/call ms/call name \\n 39.74 12.39 12.39 mcount (profiler overhead)\\n 7.86 14.84 2.45 964885 0.00 0.00 fastgetattr\\n 2.79 15.71 0.87 906153 0.00 0.00 fastgetiattr\\n 2.44 16.47 0.76 _psort_cmp\\n 2.08 17.12 0.65 400783 0.00 0.00 _bt_compare\\n 1.60 17.62 0.50 125987 0.00 0.01 hash_search\\n 1.48 18.08 0.46 128756 0.00 0.01 SearchSysCache\\n 1.28 18.48 0.40 120307 0.00 0.00 SpinAcquire\\n 1.25 18.87 0.39 1846682 0.00 0.00 fmgr_faddr\\n 1.06 19.20 0.33 253022 0.00 0.00 StrategyTermEvaluate\\n 1.03 19.52 0.32 31578 0.01 0.04 heapgettup\\n 0.99 19.83 0.31 128842 0.00 0.00 CatalogCacheComputeHashIndex\\n---------- \\nFastgetattr() doesn't seem to be so fast, after all... or perhaps it would be\\nbest to try and reduce the number of calls to it? One million calls to read\\nattributes out of tuples seems to me as extreme when we are talking about less\\nthan one hundred rows.\\n\\nPerhaps it would be better to add a new function 'fastgetattrlist' to retrieve\\nmultiple attributes at once, instead of calling a macro wrapped around another\\nbunch of macros, calling 'fastgetattr' for each attribute to retrieve?\\n\\nOr perhaps the tuples could be fitted with a \\\"lookup table\\\" when being stored\\nin the backend cache? It could take .000005 second or so to build the table and\\nattach it to the tuple, but it would definitively speed up retrieval of attributes\\nfrom that tuple. If the same tuple is searched for its atributtes lots of times (as\\nseem to be the case) then this would be faster in the end.\\n\\nCan we afford not to optimize this? I just hate those MySql people showing their\\nperformance figures. PostgreSQL should be the best...\\n\\n\\nHow about this (seemingly) unnecessarily complex part of\\naccess/common/heaptuple.c [fastgetattr] ...\\n----------\\nswitch (att[i]->attlen)\\n{\\n\\tcase sizeof(char):\\n\\t\\toff++;\\t\\t<-- why not 'sizeof(char)'?\\n\\t\\tbreak;\\n\\tcase sizeof(int16):\\n\\t\\toff += sizeof(int16);\\n\\t\\tbreak;\\n\\tcase sizeof(int32):\\n\\t\\toff += sizeof(int32);\\n\\t\\tbreak;\\n\\tcase -1:\\n\\t\\tusecache = false;\\n\\t\\toff += VARSIZE(tp + off);\\n\\t\\tbreak;\\n\\tdefault:\\n\\t\\toff += att[i]->attlen;\\n\\t\\tbreak;\\n}\\n----------\\n\\nWould it not be faster *and* easier to read if written as:\\n----------\\noff += (att[i]->attlen == -1 ? (usecache=false,VARSIZE(tp+off)) : att[i]->attlen);\\n----------\\n\\n...or is this some kind of magic which I should not worry about? There are almost\\nno comments in this code, and most of the stuff is totally incomprehensible to me.\\n\\nWould it be a good idea to try and optimize things like this, or will these\\nfunctions be replace sometime anyway?\\n\\n/* m */\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:36:16 +0100\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Mattias Kregert <matti@algonet.se>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": true,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Profiling the backend (gprof output) [current devel]\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> \\n> Here is the top part of my gprof output from a simple session, creating\\n> two tables, inserting some rows, creating an index and doing a couple\\n> of simple selects (one minute of typing):\\n> ----------\\n> % cumulative self self total \\n> time seconds seconds calls ms/call ms/call name \\n> 39.74 12.39 12.39 mcount (profiler overhead)\\n> 7.86 14.84 2.45 964885 0.00 0.00 fastgetattr\\n> 2.79 15.71 0.87 906153 0.00 0.00 fastgetiattr\\n> 2.44 16.47 0.76 _psort_cmp\\n> 2.08 17.12 0.65 400783 0.00 0.00 _bt_compare\\n> 1.60 17.62 0.50 125987 0.00 0.01 hash_search\\n> 1.48 18.08 0.46 128756 0.00 0.01 SearchSysCache\\n> 1.28 18.48 0.40 120307 0.00 0.00 SpinAcquire\\n> 1.25 18.87 0.39 1846682 0.00 0.00 fmgr_faddr\\n> 1.06 19.20 0.33 253022 0.00 0.00 StrategyTermEvaluate\\n> 1.03 19.52 0.32 31578 0.01 0.04 heapgettup\\n> 0.99 19.83 0.31 128842 0.00 0.00 CatalogCacheComputeHashIndex\\n> ---------- \\n> Fastgetattr() doesn't seem to be so fast, after all... or perhaps it would be\\n> best to try and reduce the number of calls to it? One million calls to read\\n> attributes out of tuples seems to me as extreme when we are talking about less\\n> than one hundred rows.\\n> \\n> Perhaps it would be better to add a new function 'fastgetattrlist' to retrieve\\n> multiple attributes at once, instead of calling a macro wrapped around another\\n> bunch of macros, calling 'fastgetattr' for each attribute to retrieve?\\n> \\n> Or perhaps the tuples could be fitted with a \\\"lookup table\\\" when being stored\\n> in the backend cache? It could take .000005 second or so to build the table and\\n> attach it to the tuple, but it would definitively speed up retrieval of attributes\\n> from that tuple. If the same tuple is searched for its atributtes lots of times (as\\n> seem to be the case) then this would be faster in the end.\\n> \\n> Can we afford not to optimize this? I just hate those MySql people showing their\\n> performance figures. PostgreSQL should be the best...\\n> \\n> \\n> How about this (seemingly) unnecessarily complex part of\\n> access/common/heaptuple.c [fastgetattr] ...\\n> ----------\\n> switch (att[i]->attlen)\\n> {\\n> \\tcase sizeof(char):\\n> \\t\\toff++;\\t\\t<-- why not 'sizeof(char)'?\\n> \\t\\tbreak;\\n> \\tcase sizeof(int16):\\n> \\t\\toff += sizeof(int16);\\n> \\t\\tbreak;\\n> \\tcase sizeof(int32):\\n> \\t\\toff += sizeof(int32);\\n> \\t\\tbreak;\\n> \\tcase -1:\\n> \\t\\tusecache = false;\\n> \\t\\toff += VARSIZE(tp + off);\\n> \\t\\tbreak;\\n> \\tdefault:\\n> \\t\\toff += att[i]->attlen;\\n> \\t\\tbreak;\\n> }\\n> ----------\\n> \\n> Would it not be faster *and* easier to read if written as:\\n> ----------\\n> off += (att[i]->attlen == -1 ? (usecache=false,VARSIZE(tp+off)) : att[i]->attlen);\\n> ----------\\n> \\n> ...or is this some kind of magic which I should not worry about? There are almost\\n> no comments in this code, and most of the stuff is totally incomprehensible to me.\\n> \\n> Would it be a good idea to try and optimize things like this, or will these\\n> functions be replace sometime anyway?\\n\\nOK, here is my statement on this. GO FOR IT. YOU HAVE THE GREEN LIGHT.\\nRUN WITH THE BALL.\\n\\nYes, PostgreSQL is very modularized, but this modularization causes\\nsevere function all overhead, as you have seen. I did some tuning in\\n6.2 that improved some things, but much more needs to be done.\\n\\nAnything that can be done without making the code harder to understand\\nor maintain should be done.\\n\\nYour change to the above switch statement is a good example of a good\\ncleanup. If things like this can be improved or cached or made into\\nmacros, let's do it.\\n\\nThe fastgetattr function does quite a bit in terms of reading the tuple,\\nso you may need to re-code part of it to optimize it. There is a\\nattcacheoff value, but that is only removing part of the overhead.\\n\\nThere are three things that make us slower that other databases: \\ntransactions, user-defined type system, and a good optimizer, which can\\nslow small queries, but makes large queries much faster.\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:14:51 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Profiling the backend (gprof output) [current devel]\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"> Anything that can be done without making the code harder to understand\\n> or maintain should be done.\\n\\nOne thing. If you find a better/faster/clearer way to code something,\\nand it appears in several areas/files of the code, it should probably be\\ndone in all those parts, not just the part that gets used a lot.\\n\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:47:25 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Profiling the backend (gprof output) [current devel]\"\n },\n {\n \"msg_contents\": \"I think I am on to something with fastgetattr. I will send a patch in a\\nfew hours.\\n\\n> \\n> Here is the top part of my gprof output from a simple session, creating\\n> two tables, inserting some rows, creating an index and doing a couple\\n> of simple selects (one minute of typing):\\n> ----------\\n> % cumulative self self total \\n> time seconds seconds calls ms/call ms/call name \\n> 39.74 12.39 12.39 mcount (profiler overhead)\\n> 7.86 14.84 2.45 964885 0.00 0.00 fastgetattr\\n> 2.79 15.71 0.87 906153 0.00 0.00 fastgetiattr\\n> 2.44 16.47 0.76 _psort_cmp\\n> 2.08 17.12 0.65 400783 0.00 0.00 _bt_compare\\n> 1.60 17.62 0.50 125987 0.00 0.01 hash_search\\n> 1.48 18.08 0.46 128756 0.00 0.01 SearchSysCache\\n> 1.28 18.48 0.40 120307 0.00 0.00 SpinAcquire\\n> 1.25 18.87 0.39 1846682 0.00 0.00 fmgr_faddr\\n> 1.06 19.20 0.33 253022 0.00 0.00 StrategyTermEvaluate\\n> 1.03 19.52 0.32 31578 0.01 0.04 heapgettup\\n> 0.99 19.83 0.31 128842 0.00 0.00 CatalogCacheComputeHashIndex\\n> ---------- \\n> Fastgetattr() doesn't seem to be so fast, after all... or perhaps it would be\\n> best to try and reduce the number of calls to it? One million calls to read\\n> attributes out of tuples seems to me as extreme when we are talking about less\\n> than one hundred rows.\\n> \\n> Perhaps it would be better to add a new function 'fastgetattrlist' to retrieve\\n> multiple attributes at once, instead of calling a macro wrapped around another\\n> bunch of macros, calling 'fastgetattr' for each attribute to retrieve?\\n> \\n> Or perhaps the tuples could be fitted with a \\\"lookup table\\\" when being stored\\n> in the backend cache? It could take .000005 second or so to build the table and\\n> attach it to the tuple, but it would definitively speed up retrieval of attributes\\n> from that tuple. If the same tuple is searched for its atributtes lots of times (as\\n> seem to be the case) then this would be faster in the end.\\n> \\n> Can we afford not to optimize this? I just hate those MySql people showing their\\n> performance figures. PostgreSQL should be the best...\\n> \\n> \\n> How about this (seemingly) unnecessarily complex part of\\n> access/common/heaptuple.c [fastgetattr] ...\\n> ----------\\n> switch (att[i]->attlen)\\n> {\\n> \\tcase sizeof(char):\\n> \\t\\toff++;\\t\\t<-- why not 'sizeof(char)'?\\n> \\t\\tbreak;\\n> \\tcase sizeof(int16):\\n> \\t\\toff += sizeof(int16);\\n> \\t\\tbreak;\\n> \\tcase sizeof(int32):\\n> \\t\\toff += sizeof(int32);\\n> \\t\\tbreak;\\n> \\tcase -1:\\n> \\t\\tusecache = false;\\n> \\t\\toff += VARSIZE(tp + off);\\n> \\t\\tbreak;\\n> \\tdefault:\\n> \\t\\toff += att[i]->attlen;\\n> \\t\\tbreak;\\n> }\\n> ----------\\n> \\n> Would it not be faster *and* easier to read if written as:\\n> ----------\\n> off += (att[i]->attlen == -1 ? (usecache=false,VARSIZE(tp+off)) : att[i]->attlen);\\n> ----------\\n> \\n> ...or is this some kind of magic which I should not worry about? There are almost\\n> no comments in this code, and most of the stuff is totally incomprehensible to me.\\n> \\n> Would it be a good idea to try and optimize things like this, or will these\\n> functions be replace sometime anyway?\\n> \\n> /* m */\\n> \\n> \\n\\n\\n-- \\nBruce Momjian\\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\\n\",\n \"msg_date\": \"Thu, 29 Jan 1998 09:47:06 -0500 (EST)\",\n \"msg_from\": \"Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\",\n \"msg_from_op\": false,\n \"msg_subject\": \"Re: [HACKERS] Profiling the backend (gprof output) [current devel]\"\n }\n]","isConversational":false}}}],"truncated":false,"partial":false},"paginationData":{"pageIndex":1,"numItemsPerPage":100,"numTotalItems":58371,"offset":100,"length":100}},"jwt":"eyJhbGciOiJFZERTQSJ9.eyJyZWFkIjp0cnVlLCJwZXJtaXNzaW9ucyI6eyJyZXBvLmNvbnRlbnQucmVhZCI6dHJ1ZX0sImlhdCI6MTc3NTc5NjczMSwic3ViIjoiL2RhdGFzZXRzL3dhbnNoZW5sL3Bnc3FsLWhhY2tlcnMiLCJleHAiOjE3NzU4MDAzMzEsImlzcyI6Imh0dHBzOi8vaHVnZ2luZ2ZhY2UuY28ifQ.-ZWz8lXNhdjGAnbJI5OwLKNx_LdL3c5jIFUE4VBoVRJ-iq1I2vnwkkxwdOYIUlUvvYrVbUrZIUfM9yPlUov_BQ","displayUrls":true,"splitSizeSummaries":[{"config":"default","split":"train","numRows":58371,"numBytesParquet":368254123}]},"discussionsStats":{"closed":0,"open":0,"total":0},"fullWidth":true,"hasGatedAccess":true,"hasFullAccess":true,"isEmbedded":false,"savedQueries":{"community":[],"user":[]}}">
threads listlengths 1 2.99k |
|---|
[
{
"msg_contents": "I've been seeing trouble with varchar() columns for a little while, and\nsince it is still there with a fresh install of the development tree\nit's time to report it:\n\npostgres=> create table t (v varchar(80),i int);\nCREATE\npostgres=> insert into t values ('hi',1);\nINSERT 18122 1\npostgr... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "\n> OK, we never installed this for 6.2 because we were already in Beta. \n> Can we do this for 6.3? Vadim suggested we make this part of libpq, so\n> all applications could make use of it.\n> \n> I have one of the original patches, but not the others. Martin, what do you\n> think? Any othe... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "unsubscribe\n",
"msg_date": "Mon, 12 Jan 1998 09:06:50 -0600",
"msg_from": "Andy Doerr <donjon@neosoft.com>",
"msg_from_op": true,
"msg_subject": "(no subject)"
}
] |
[
{
"msg_contents": "Try changing your OS default memory size. Unsure how to do this under\nAIX.\n\n> \n> \n> ============================================================================\n> POSTGRESQL BUG REPORT TEMPLATE\n> =================================================================... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "\n\nHi...\n\n\tWell, since this has all sort of died off, and since I'd like to\nget some resolution on it.\n\n\tDoes anyone here *understand* the LGPL? If we put the ODBC\ndrivers *under* src/interfaces, does that risk contaminating the rest of\nthe code *in any way*? Anyone here done a re... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "Hi,\n\nI can confirm that I see the same problem here.\n\nMaybe todo with the recent varchar() storage changes.\n\nKeith.\n\n\n\"Thomas G. Lockhart\" <lockhart@alumni.caltech.edu>\n\n> I've been seeing trouble with varchar() columns for a little while, and\n> since it is still there with a fr... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "unsubscribe\n",
"msg_date": "Mon, 12 Jan 1998 10:33:10 -0800",
"msg_from": "Kevin Witten <kwitten@qdt.com>",
"msg_from_op": true,
"msg_subject": "(no subject)"
}
] |
[
{
"msg_contents": "\nAbout commercial databases lacking access control \nfunctionality to a degree \"similar\" to PG: hmm, I dunno\nabout that. Seems like kind of a slur on the commercial\nproducts :-)\n \nThe two Big Names (Oracle and Sybase) have pretty well- \ndeveloped access control. I can't speak to O... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "*sigh* we have the same problem and i used the libpq c interface and i\nbased it from pg_dump.c (and bruce mentioned psql.c). as with the Gtk+,\nis this the tcl/tk library? i'm not sure but someone made PgAccess which\nmay be similar to what you're doing. in any case, i'm forwarding this t... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "Forwarded message:\n> > The problem was that some things were copied using VARSIZE rather than\n> > subtracting out VARHDRSZ first (actually, I think it might have use\n> > sizeof(int) and other dangers too). I patched that near the end of the year\n> > and my 980101.d tree and 980106.d tree ... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "Since PostgreSQL doesn't have column level permissions, I tried to do\nsomething with views like this.\n\nCREATE TABLE account (\n uid int, # Unique UID for account\n login char8, # User login - must also be unique\n cdate date, # Creation date\n a_active... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "Well, I've rebuilt postgres again, using a fresh cvs snapshot, and grant\nis still broken.\n\nInfact, it gets worse. Once you try to use the grant statement, then any\nother connection that was active at that time - even on different\ndatabases, will die with the same message, hinting it may ... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "Hi All,\n\nI wonder if it might be useful to maintain a \"bugs\" regression test, where\nwe could include various tests that people have supplied to highlight bugs\nin the system and that have subsequently been fixed?\n\nI'm thinking along the lines of the current varchar() bug that can be\ne... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "Sorry for the response delay. I was out of town.\n\nI don't believe that pg_user needs to be readable by users in general. They\ndon't really need to know who else has access to the DB, and they certainly \ndon't need to know what access they do have (e.g. usesuper and createuser).\n\nAs fo... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "\nI would like to suggest the following augmentation to the PostgreSQL DBMS.\nThis augmentation is to add a pg_privileges table for each database instance.\nSuch a table should be responsible for maintaining the SELECT, UPDATE, INSERT,\nand DELETE permissions on all database objects. Further... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, todd brandys wrote:\n\n> On Sun, 11 Jan 1998, Bruce Momjian wrote:\n> \n> > OK, general question. Does pg_user need to be readable? Do\n> > non-postgres users want to see who owns each table? I don't know.\n> \n> I'd say yes, as we have stuff in JDBC yet to implement t... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, Ralf Mattes wrote:\n\n> Yes, i agree. Mike's implementation is the way to go in a traditional\n> realtional db (BTW, a question about oids: lurking on this list \n> i overheard the idea of dropping oids. This would break a lot\n> of my code! What's the last word on this ?... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "> Bruce,\n> \n> I did some homework. Here is what I have. The default max data segment size on our (AIX 4.1.4) box is around 130000 kbytes.\n> \n> I put together a query which put me just past the threshold of the palloc \"out of memory error\". It is as follows:\n> \n> create table outl... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, Bruce Momjian wrote:\n\n> > \n> > \n> > Check out:\n> > \n> > http://www.hub.org/stats/postgresql.current.html\n> > \n> > At the bottom of it is the referrer report, which attempts to show where\n> > ppl are coming from. Its not auto-generated, just something that I did\... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, Mattias Kregert wrote:\n\n> May I suggest a minor change?\n> \n> - \"Keep the directory tidy\"\n> \n> The \"data/base/*/\" directories looks awful, almost as bad as the\n> c:\\windows dir on my dos partition... ;-) All types of files are\n> just thrown in, without ... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "\n\nJust added July, August and September of 1997 to the MHonarc\narchive...searchable index will be updated later tonight\n\nAlso, am working on automating the cvs2html script to produce an HTML\ndisplay of the CVS logs (http://www.postgresql.org/cvs-logs/pgsql.html)\n\n\n\n",
"msg_date"... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "> \n> Hi, Bruce!\n> \n> vac=> \\d t\n> \n> Table = t\n> +----------------------------------+----------------------------------+-------+\n> | Field | Type | Length|\n> +----------------------------------+--------------------------------... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "I have kept qry_numAgg, so the code can easily determine if it should go\nlooking for Aggreg entries. I will have a qry_numSubLink field, so you\ncan easily know if SubLinks exist in the Query.\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n",
"msg_date": "Wed, 14 Jan 1998 14:59:51 -0... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "\nSeems like the discussion on views and access control is\ndrifting in a direction that interests me. At the risk of\nonce again bringing up an issue that's already been solved\nand tabled, I offer the following wish item:\n\nContent-based access control (CBAC). In my experience,\nwhen the... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "\n\nJust finished adding in May and June's archives into MHonarc...only, what,\n6 months to go :)\n\n\n\n",
"msg_date": "Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:48:23 -0500 (EST)",
"msg_from": "The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>",
"msg_from_op": true,
"msg_subject": "May & June added..."
}
] |
[
{
"msg_contents": "> > > > I came across the same grouping problem myself. In my installation it\n> > > > only happens with tables containing thousands of rows (for example 10000\n> > > > or more).\n\nI've been keeping track of this problem and was preparing to send a message to the\nlist saying that it had dis... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "Got my Linux Journal today and the first featured article is entitled\n\n \"PostgreSQL - The Linux of Databases\"\n\nNow scrappy, before you get bent out of joint, they mean this in a nice\nway ;-)\n\nThe author is Rolf Herzog from Germany. It seems like a good article,\nwith a few factual e... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "> Content-based access control (CBAC). In my experience,\n> when these words are uttered, DBAs and MIS designers groan.\n> I wish CBAC were never required. Unfortunately sometimes\n> it is, and I wonder if the PG team is thinking about it.\n\nWe handle this with views in our Informix Data W... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "I have a potential patch for the glibc2 date problem; however I can't\ntest it because the snapshot won't build. \n\n\nHas this build error been cured recently, or do I have my own unique problem?\n\n\nO/S: Linux 2.0.32\nGlibc: 2.0.6\nGcc: 2.7.2.3\nFlex: 2.5.4\nBison: 1.25\nPostgreSQL: snapsh... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "\nHiya...\n\n\tWould send email directly, but only have the address at home :(\n\n\tD'Arcy...you've been working on a Python interface, correct? Do\nwe want to include that as part of src/interfaces? *raised eyebrows*\n\n\n",
"msg_date": "Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:57:17 -0500 (EST)",
"msg_... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "Hi,\n\nI have installed PostgreSQL6.2.1 from my own user account (I was just trying\nto test out something first). It seems to be running too slow. For example,\nthe self join of a table with roughly 300K records takes 2-3 hours. There is\nan index on the join attribute.\nI am running it on a... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "\n> OIDs are a bastardization of the relational model. If you have to keep\n> them, then do so, but their use should be SEVERELY discouraged.\n\nExplain yourself, please.\n\nIn my opinion, I view the OID in the same way as I view the SERIAL datatype\nin Informix. It is usually a primary key... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "\nHi...\n\n\tI've just installed (massaged in?) a major major patch for PL(?)\nthat was submitted in Nov...snapshot will be created in about 18hrs or\nso...please test and report back any problems...haven't had a chance to\ntest compile it here yet :(\n\n\n\n",
"msg_date": "Thu, 15 Jan 19... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "I keep getting:\n\nToo Large Allocation Request(\"!(0 < (size) && (size) <= \n(0xfffffff)):size=-3 [0xfffffffd]\", File: \"mcxt.c\", Line: 232)\n!(0 < (size) && (size) <= (0xfffffff)) (0) [No such file or directory]\n\nfrom a simple select:\n\nSELECT * from provinces;\n\nincidentally, \"SELE... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "\nI wish ppl would quite dropping off CC's :( Especially when this stuff\n*should* be being discussed in pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org...\n\nAs for the pg_privileges relation and whatnot...is this something we want\nfor v6.3 (can it be done in 2weeks?) or wait until after v6.3 is released?\n\... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "> Fork off the postgres process first, then authenticate inside of\n> there...which would get rid of the problem with pg_user itself being a\n> text file vs a relation...no?\n\nYes, yes, yes. This is how authentication should be done (for HBA, etc.)\nFurthermore, we could reduce the ... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "> As for the pg_privileges relation and whatnot...is this something we want\n> for v6.3 (can it be done in 2weeks?) or wait until after v6.3 is released?\n\nI don't think (realistically) that such a task could be done in two weeks. No.\nRather, we should wait until after release 6.3, and the... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "subscribe\n",
"msg_date": "Thu, 15 Jan 1998 14:42:31 -0600",
"msg_from": "todd brandys <brandys@eng3.hep.uiuc.edu>",
"msg_from_op": true,
"msg_subject": "subscribe"
}
] |
[
{
"msg_contents": "Forwarded message:\n> > Why attlen should be -1 ?\n> > attlen in pg_attribute for v in table t is 84, why run-time attlen\n> > should be -1 ? How else maxlen constraint could be checked ?\n> > IMHO, you have to change heap_getattr() to check is atttype == VARCHAROID\n> > and use vl_len if yes... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "> scan.l: In function `yylex':\n> scan.l:202: `ABORT' undeclared (first use this function)\n\nSince the snapshot is intended for experienced (or wanting to become so)\npostgresql'ers\nthat would like to help the team and don't have CVS (like me on AIX),\nmaybe the snapshot shoud be moved to a... |
[
{
"msg_contents": ">> OIDs are a bastardization of the relational model. If you have to\nkeep\n>> them, then do so, but their use should be SEVERELY discouraged.\n>\n>\tActually, I use them quite extensively...I have several\nWWW-based\n>search directories that are searched with:\n>\n>select oid,<fields> from ... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "unsubscribe b.aerts@syntegra.net\n",
"msg_date": "Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:29:07 +0100",
"msg_from": "bas aerts <b.aerts@syntegra.net>",
"msg_from_op": true,
"msg_subject": "(no subject)"
}
] |
[
{
"msg_contents": "unsubscribe pgsql-hackers\n",
"msg_date": "Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:29:31 +0100",
"msg_from": "bas aerts <b.aerts@syntegra.net>",
"msg_from_op": true,
"msg_subject": "(no subject)"
}
] |
[
{
"msg_contents": "> > \n> > > Fork off the postgres process first, then authenticate\ninside of\n> > > there...which would get rid of the problem with pg_user itself\nbeing a\n> > > text file vs a relation...no?\n> > \n> > Yes, yes, yes. This is how authentication should be done (for HBA,\netc.)\n> \n... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "\nAnother *cool* project would be a LDAPd front-end to PgSQL,\nor perhaps rather a PgSQL-backend to SLAPD.\n\nI am planning to look into this when I got the neccesary time,\nbut feel free to start ahead of me if you like the idea.\n\n happy hacking,\n-- \n----------------------------------... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "> On 12-Jan-98 The Hermit Hacker wrote:\n> > Does anyone here *understand* the LGPL? If we put the ODBC\n> >drivers *under* src/interfaces, does that risk contaminating the rest of\n> >the code *in any way*? Anyone here done a reasonably thorough study of\n> >the LGPL and can comment ... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "> Got my Linux Journal today and the first featured article is entitled\n> \n> \"PostgreSQL - The Linux of Databases\"\n> \n> Now scrappy, before you get bent out of joint, they mean this in a nice\n> way ;-)\n> \n> The author is Rolf Herzog from Germany. It seems like a good article,\n> wi... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "> On Thu, Jan 15, 1998 at 09:27:21AM +0700, Vadim B. Mikheev wrote:\n> > The Hermit Hacker wrote:\n> > > \n> > > On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, Ralf Mattes wrote:\n> > > \n> > > > Yes, i agree. Mike's implementation is the way to go in a traditional\n> > > > realtional db (BTW, a question about oids: l... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "> > The remaining part of the patch is to force the undefinition of\n> > HAVE_INT_TIMEZONE; again this is glibc2-specific, but I don't know\n> > any reason to suppose it wouldn't be needed on any machine with glibc2.\n> > \n> > It would really be helpful to have someone on a non-Linux machine... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "> > > ObCaveat: I'm not a lawyer. I don't look like a lawyer, I don't smell like a\n> > > lawyer, and I don't lie like a lawyer.\n> > > \n> > > \n> > My understanding is pretty much the same. Originally there was only GPL. This\n> > really says that anything you link with GPL code must be d... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "\n> OK, we never installed this for 6.2 because we were already in Beta. \n> Can we do this for 6.3? Vadim suggested we make this part of libpq, so\n> all applications could make use of it.\n> \n> \n\nAny more comments about adding support for .psqlrc? The original\nproposal was that psql sh... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "\n\n\n\nPG Version: CVSup src from 15:00 EST Jan 16, 1998\n OS: Linux 2.0.30 (Slackware 3.3)\n\nI am trying to test a patch I created for the pg_dump utility. I cvsuped\nthe latest sources\nand created the patch. I used the following procedure:\n 1 configure --prefix=/usr/local/pg... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "Hi,\n\nquestion that i couldnt get answered in Questions, so at the risk of \nbeing shot sending it here.\n\nIs it possible to compile only lib(pq) and not the rest of the DBMS.\nI'm facing the problem where i have to install client software on\nmultiple platforms, and wanting to make C stubs... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "Hi, I'm running Postgres 6.2.1 on IRIX 5.3 using native compiler.\n\nRunning test/examples/testlibpq3 generates the following erroneous\nresults. Can anyone shed some light on the matter? Thanks,\n\ntype[0] = 23, size[0] = 4\ntype[1] = 700, size[1] = 4\ntype[2] = 604, size[2] = -1\n\ntuple ... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "OK, I have created the SubLink structure with supporting routines, and\nhave added code to create the SubLink structures in the parser, and have\nadded Query->hasSubLink.\n\nI changed gram.y to support:\n\n\t(x,y,z) OP (subselect)\n\nwhere OP is any operator. Is that right, or are we doing o... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "\nWhile looking thru the nodeGroup code, I noticed the following\nthat I'm not sure is correct.\n\n-- Using 01-09 snapshot\ncreate table t1 (a int4, b char(2), c char(2));\nCREATE\ninsert into t1 (a,c) values (1,'x');\nINSERT 149419 1\ninsert into t1 (a,c) values (2,'x');\nINSERT 149420 1\nin... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "On Sat, 17 Jan 1998, Tom wrote:\n\n> How are large users handling the vacuum problem? vaccuum locks other\n> users out of tables too long. I don't need a lot performance (a few per\n> minutes), but I need to be handle queries non-stop).\n\n\tNot sure, but this one is about the only major ... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "> > Also, how are people handling tables with lots of rows? The 8k tuple\n> > size can waste a lot of space. I need to be able to handle a 2 million\n> > row table, which will eat up 16GB, plus more for indexes.\n>\n\n16GB?!? Not unless your tuples are 8k. The 8k is/was the max _tuple_ ... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "> > > Also, how are people handling tables with lots of rows? The 8k tuple\n> > > size can waste a lot of space. I need to be able to handle a 2 million\n> > > row table, which will eat up 16GB, plus more for indexes.\n> > \n> > \tThis oen is improved upon in v6.3, where at compile time y... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "\nI installed some patches today for the univel port, and one of the changes\ndid the following to include/storage/s_lock.h:\n\n302c318\n< __asm__(\"xchgb %0,%1\": \"=q\"(_res), \"=m\"(*lock):\"0\"(0x1)); \\\n---\n> __asm__(\"lock xc... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "\nvacuuming template1\nAltering pg_user acl\npostgres in free(): warning: modified (chunk-) pointer.\npostgres in free(): warning: modified (chunk-) pointer.\nloading pg_description\n\n\n> psql template1\npsql in free(): warning: junk pointer, too high to make sense.\nWelcome to the POSTGRESQ... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "\nIn trying to use gdb to step through the code, it appears that the problem\nis manifesting itself in PQsetdb():\n \n(gdb) s\n2518 if (settings.getPassword)\n(gdb) s\n2533 settings.db = PQsetdb(host, port, NULL, NULL, dbname);\n(gdb) s\npsql in free(): warning: ... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "unsubscribe\n",
"msg_date": "Sat, 17 Jan 1998 20:09:39 -0800 (PST)",
"msg_from": "gordoni@base.com (Gordon Irlam)",
"msg_from_op": true,
"msg_subject": "unusb"
}
] |
[
{
"msg_contents": "\n\n Hi,\n\n I got no answer from pgsql-questions list.\n\n basically I'm using only one table at a time, and I need only a few\nsimple operations on tuples (find, add, updates, delete).\n\n -- after a quick look at all `cd src; find . -name '*.h'` I didn't\nfind any such similar in... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "> Well, I can create the table quite easily. The issue is what type of\n> flack we will get by haveing pg_user non-readable, and removing the user\n\nWhat if we were to put the pg_user accessibility to the admin setting up\nPostgreSQL (at least until pg_privileges could become a reality.). ... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "> \n> Bruce,\n> \n> The new varchar() stuff looks good, just a minor problem with \"select into\"\n> where the new table does not seem to get a copy of the atttypmod value\n> from the source table.\n> \n> I had a quick look at the code but guess you'll find the problem 10 times\n> faster than... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "Felix Morley Finch wrote:\n> \n> >>In article <34C1BD06.1712ABAC@sable.krasnoyarsk.su>, \"Vadim B. Mikheev\" <vadim@sable.krasnoyarsk.su> writes:\n> \n> > Felix Morley Finch wrote:\n> >>\n> >> I tried searching and ran into several new lessons in SQL; I ended up\n> >> with this --\n> >>\n> >>... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "\nOK, I have added code to allow the SubLinks make it to the optimizer.\n\nI implemented ParseState->parentParseState, but not parentQuery, because\nthe parentParseState is much more valuable to me, and Vadim thought it\nmight be useful, but was not positive. Also, keeping that parentQuery\n... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "\nIt hangs at the following error, CVSup'd and built as of this morning:\n\nScript started on Mon 19 Jan 1998 10:16:17 AM AST\n%./initdb --pglb\b\u001b[Kib=/loc/pgsql/lib --pgdata=/loc/pgsql/data\ninitdb: using /loc/pgsql/lib/local1_template1.bki.source as input to create the template databas... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "HI\n\nI found some bug:\nWhen I select from table (select A,B,count(*) INTO table tmp1 FROM AAA\ngroup by A,B; ) in \nbig table some touples are duplicated ;(,\n\n A,\tB,\tcount(*)\n321\t1\t3\t\\\t?\n321\t1\t2\t/ \t?\n321\t2\t5\n...........\n\nPS: I use linux 2.0.33 and solaris 2.5.1 and po... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "I removed the 'lock' in the source tree. I think Lock is a valid 386\nopcode, but gcc under Freebsd and BSDI does not support it.\n\nCan you put some ifdef in there so Unixware uses it, but non-unixware\ndoes not?\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n",
"msg_date": "Mon, 19 ... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "Thanks Bruce,\n\nIt was obviously not quite as simple a problem as I had 1st imagined.\n\nI did have a root around in the code but could not work out how the\nattributes were copied to the newly created table.\n\nThanks for the fix,\nKeith.\n\nBruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>\n> emkx... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "\nThis comes up since the varchar will no longer be padded...\n\nShould the user be allowed to create a table with fields that\nwould go over the maximum tuple size if all fields were max'd?\n\nExample...with a block size of 8192...\n\ncreate table foo (a varchar(4000), b varchar(4000), c var... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "Hi,\n\nIf I want to compile the PostgreSQL 6.2.1 code with the -g flag, which Makefile\nshould I add it. I would like to run it thru a debugger. I am compiling it\nwith gcc; so I should be able to use xgdb, right?\n\nThe sort cost in the planner is assumed to be 0. So, there is an unfair bias... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "\n Hi,\n\n I'm trying to figgure out how does the locking work.\n\n If I get a ``Result Table'' from a select with, say, only one row which\ncomes from only one ``Schema Table'', and I lock the ``Result Table'',\nwill it not prevent updates of the row in ``Schema Table'' that appeared \ni... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "I have cleaned up the parser code as best I could. I still am very\nconfused by much of the code in parser_func, parser_oper, and\nparser_type, and others. If someone wants to study this stuff and get a\nclearer layout, that would be great.\n\nI have added 'lock;' to the i386 asm.\n\nI have... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "I can't figure out how to properly do the the Var->sublevels_up search in the\nexisting code, partly because I can't figure out what it is doing.\n\nIt will take me a few days more to do it. I just can't look at the code\nanymore.\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n",
"msg... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "> \n> I can't figure out how to properly do the the Var->sublevels_up search in the\n> existing code, partly because I can't figure out what it is doing.\n> \n> It will take me a few days more to do it. I just can't look at the code\n> anymore.\n\nOK, I think I have a handle on it now. Shou... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "Defining CUSTOM_LDFLAGS in Makefile.custom does not have any\neffect on the compilation. I found that LDFLAGS is hardcoded\nin Makefile.global. Perhaps it would be a good idea to change\nthis? I had to edit Makefile.global and add '-pg' to LDFLAGS\nmanually.\n\nI thought it was about time to ... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "PostgreSQL seem to have a lot of names;\n Postgres 95, Postgres, Pg, Pgsql ... All these names are used in\n FAQ, filenames, docs, installation info, messages etc.\n\nExamples:\n The backend executable is 'postgres', why not 'postgresql'?\n INSTALL: \"User postgres is the Postgres superus... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "\nHello,\n\nAfter installing the latest cvs tree this morning, I cannot use \ncreateuser and createdb. They break when trying to run psql. I can\nconnect with psql to the template1 database after setting up hba to use\npassword authentication and starting it with the -u option. \n\nDoes the h... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "I have completed adding Var.varlevelsup, and have added code to the\nparser to properly set the field. It will allow correlated references\nin the WHERE clause, but not in the target list.\n\nI did not make many changes in the optimizer or executor because I\nbelieved varlevelsup would be ze... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "\nWe are only going to have subselects in the WHERE clause, not in the\ntarget list, right?\n\nThe standard says we can have them either place, but I didn't think we\nwere implementing the target list subselects.\n\nIs that correct?\n\n-- \nBruce Momjian\nmaillist@candle.pha.pa.us\n",
"ms... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "OK, I now have rewrites working with subselects. At least, I think it\nwill work. No way to test it yet.\n\nIt basically rewrites all the subqueries first, then the main query. It\ndoes the lowest queries first. I do this so if a rewrite adds a\nsubquery as part of the rewrite, the new su... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "Bruce wrote:\n> I have completed adding Var.varlevelsup, and have added code to the\n> parser to properly set the field. It will allow correlated references\n> in the WHERE clause, but not in the target list.\n\nselect i2.ip1, i1.ip4 from nameip i1 where ip1 = (select ip1 from nameip\ni2);\n... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "> > In all tests crash_me crashed backend server - postgres but postmaster\n> > still run and allow to work with all dbs. I run crash_me several times\n> > with postmaster started once upon boot time.\n> \n> \tIs there any indication as to why the crash?\n\nI can tell indirect only using limi... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "> We are only going to have subselects in the WHERE clause, not in the\n> target list, right?\n> \n> The standard says we can have them either place, but I didn't think we\n> were implementing the target list subselects.\n> \n> Is that correct?\n\nWhat about the HAVING clause? Currently not ... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "Hi\n\nI find next bug:\nin query \"select a,b,count(*) from q group by a,b;\" postgres do:\na\t,b\t,count(*)\n5\t2\t3\t???\n5\t2\t2\t???\n6\t3\t6\n.................\n\ntable - about 10000-30000 tuples.\n\nPS: i use linux 2.0.33 & solaris 2.5.1\n\n-- \nSY, Serj\n",
"msg_date": "Wed, 21 Jan... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "> \n> \n> Anyone know what the heap_modifytuple error refers to down below?\n> \n> The error is generated around line 884 of\n> backend/access/common/heaptuple.c, where 'repl[attoff]' != 'r' \n> \n> Haven't had a chance to test this under FreeBSD yet, will hopefully try it\n> out tonight...\n... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "\n> \tIf its easy to add in the next couple of days, sure, go for\n> it...but can someone explain to me *why* you would use a subselect in\n> the\n> target list? I've actually never seen that before :9\n> \n> \nI think it is always possible to rewrite a 'subselect in the target\nlist' as a j... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "\nMoved to pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org, where it should have been moved\n*ages* ago\n\n\nOn Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Igor Sysoev wrote:\n\n> > The result you're seeing is, IMHO, *correct*.\n> > \n> > The first row in the table, when the update is undertaken, produces a \n> > duplicate key. So you ... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "Do people want the overhead of char(), varchar(), and text to be reduced\nfrom 4-bytes to 2-bytes. We store the length in this overhead, but\nsince we have a size limit on tuple size, we can't have a field over 8k\nin size anyway. Even if we up that to 32k for 6.3, we still only use 2\nbyte... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "> Do people want the overhead of char(), varchar(), and text to be reduced\n> from 4-bytes to 2-bytes. We store the length in this overhead, but\n> since we have a size limit on tuple size, we can't have a field over 8k\n> in size anyway. Even if we up that to 32k for 6.3, we still only use... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "Here they are:\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nGROUP BY bug of duplicates\nGROUP BY nulls bug\nORDER BY nulls(Vadim?)\nmany OR's exhaust optimizer memory(Vadim?)\nmax tuple length settings(Darren & Peter)\npg_user defaults to world-readable unti... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "subscribe\n\n",
"msg_date": "Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:46:02 +0100",
"msg_from": "expertel <postgres@expertel.fr>",
"msg_from_op": true,
"msg_subject": "(no subject)"
}
] |
[
{
"msg_contents": "> Here they are:\n> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n> \n> GROUP BY bug of duplicates\n> GROUP BY nulls bug\n> ORDER BY nulls(Vadim?)\n> many OR's exhaust optimizer memory(Vadim?)\n> max tuple length settings(Darren & Peter)\n> pg_user defaults to w... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "> > max tuple length settings(Darren & Peter)\n> \n> The last I saw, we agreed (on the client side) to leave the current\n> settings for 8k tuples.\n> \n> PS: I'm having to commute to London all this week, so I'm not getting the\n> time to do anything :-(\n> \n> Hopefully it should ease after... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "> > \n> > I had forgotten about your mention of this. I am running some tests\n> > now, and things look promising. However, if we go to 64k or 128k\n> > tuples, we would be in trouble. (We can do 64k tuples by changing the\n> > 'special variable' length value from -1 to 0.\n> > \n> \n> I a... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "\nHello.\n\nZeev Suraski <zeev@php.net> is making some changes to the PostgreSQL code \nin PHP3 so that the Oid is returned in the pg_exec funtion if it is an \ninsert.\n\nWhat is the size of the Oid (unsigned, signed etc) and will it ever be \nzero.\n\nMichael\n\n* Michael J. Rogan, Networ... |
[
{
"msg_contents": "Here is the top part of my gprof output from a simple session, creating\ntwo tables, inserting some rows, creating an index and doing a couple\nof simple selects (one minute of typing):\n----------\n % cumulative self self total \n time seconds seconds c... |
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